New Civilization News: Regime Change    
 Regime Change25 comments
9 Oct 2002 @ 10:55, by Matthew Webb

Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002
From: Alexander Winchester
Subject: Preventing World War 3

Dear Earth Citizen,

I forward this short article to you, out of the spiritual and social
need
of humanity.

After reading it I'm sure you'll agree that it needs to be forwarded to
as
many people as possible, and in the shortest period of time. The truth
it
contains is rarely spoken, for it takes courage to do so in the face of
tyranny. But I've chosen you to do this, because of the concern you
have
evidenced in the betterment of humanity.

Let this new United Nations resolution be posted on every street
corner, in
every city of the world...

Yours truly,

A concerned global citizen

****

Regime Change: What the United Nations Must Do

Rather than adopting the suggested regime change in Iraq through
military
force, the United Natioins must instead consider an entirely different
course of action. This new course is based upon the facts alone, rather
than political pressure. A regime change is indeed necessary, but not
in
Iraq. The primary regime which needs to be changed, is the one found in
Washington DC. The greatest tyrant and true threat to world peace who
needs
to be ousted, is George W. Bush. The facts which clearly show the need
for
such a resolution against the U.S. are self evident...they demonstrate
a
"clear and present danger" to the world community. America is clearly a
nation which aspires to global domination, through the use of the most
expensive and high tech military the world has ever known.
In
demonstration of the above assertions, let us be very clear about
Americas"
300+ billion dollar a year expense, for weapons of mass destruction.
These
include

1) Atomic and hydrogen bombs.

2) The "Star Wars" weaponry of space satellites, and laser devices.

3) A host of biological weapons including anthrax, which it has used on
its
own citizenry and manufactured in its own laboratories.

4) Guided missile cruisers, Stealth bombers and aircraft carriers
conveying
the most advanced air-based offensives, ever to be used in the history
of
mankind.

5) Depleted uranium munitions, used repeatedly upon countries such as
Yugoslavia, Afghanistan and Iraq, causing birth defects and lingering
mutilation of civilian populations.

6) The use of spies, covert CIA operatives and other agents, as well as
a
barrage of propaganda, which seeks to weaken, overthrow and exploit the
sovereign nations of the world, primarily for the sake of installing
pro-U.S.-corporate puppets who will do Washingtons' bidding. [The fact
that
it has staged countless internal rebellions and coups within dozens of
countries in the last five decades, is well documented and known. The
U.S.
constantly interferes with, and attempts to coerce, the mandates of
foreign
governments for the sake of its own special interests, and in the name
of
"democracy". The real reason for this behavior is, of course, unfair
economic advantage and bottomless greed.]

7) Nerve gas, tear gas, blistering agents, neurotoxins and poisonous
compounds of all kinds.

8) "Smart" bombs", "Bunker Buster" bombs, "Daisy Cutter" bombs, mines
and
laser or satellite guided munitions.

9) Teams of special forces troops, whose missions are designed for
assassination, covert mass-murder and maximized destruction.

The United States possesses, and has openly discussed using, such
weapons
of mass destruction upon a great number of other nations. Among these
nations are those listed in George Bushs' so-called "axis of evil"
list, as
well as many others which it says, "harbor terrorists". The so-called
"War
on Terror" targets Libya, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, Iran, Iraq,
Afghanistan, Pakistan, Indonesia, Columbia, Nicaragua and many others.
Upon
these nations the U.S. has repeatedly issued a series of very
aggressive
and threatening statements to the effect of; "You are either with us or
against us", implying dire consequences of economic, diplomatic and
military measures in the case of non-compliance. It has openly
discussed
the possibility of a "first strike" use of conventional nuclear
warheads,
and "tactical nukes" on the battlefield. Its' military policy of, "win
no
matter what the cost of truth or human lives", as a surrogate for sane
foreign relations, has earned the wrath of the world. U.S. belligerency
has
been a major contributor to international hostilities, instability, war
and
the creation of reactionary terrorist groups, as well as the oppression
of
peoples worldwide. Its irrational posture threatens to catapult the
world
into another, and probably final, world war.

The United States has repeatedly shown its willingness to target
civilian
populations with weapons of mass destruction, especially via the
carpet-bombing of cities and infrastructures. It is the only nation to
have
ever used nuclear devices in war, and upon civilian targets. Among the
structures bombed have been desalinization plants, water treatment
facilities, police stations, electrical substations and generators,
radar
and communications stations, hospitals, highway, railway and other
transportation facilities, factories for the manufacture of metal,
plastic
and wood products, and numerous other civilian centers. Countless
examples
of this behavior have been witnessed in both Iraq and Afghanistan. The
result has been millions of Iraqi and Afghan children dying of
unnecessary
diseases and malnutrition, due to a severe lack of food and safe
drinking
water. U.S. allies such as Israel, (whose military it literally makes
possible) have also exhibited such behavior, as has Great Britain,
through
constant urging toward mindless, mutually accomplished war frenzies.

A primary export of the United States is weaponry of mass destruction,
including so-called "conventional" weapons such as guided missile
cruisers,
bombers, small arms, mortars, rockets, tactical advisors, self guided
missiles, attack helicopters, high tech surveilance and imaging
systems,
tanks, explosives and various other tools desigen primarily for the
sake of
destroying human life. Added to this list of exports are multi-lingual
propaganda, biological agents, tear and nerve gas, atomic weapons and
their
constituents, as well as technical advice regarding their construction,
maintenance and use. The U.S. has frequently urged countries to use
these
weapons against each other so long as it benefitted its political
interests, while simultaneously criticizing those who use them without
American sanction.

The U.S. has repeatedly told its own citizenry to expect involvement in
what amounts to a PERMANENT STATE OF WAR, due to the "War on Terror". A
large and increasing number of foreign nationals are being held in
American
prisons unlawfully, often without charges, legal due process or access
to
legal counsel. These persons are often subjected to psychological and
physical torture due to their nationality or religious beliefs. Its'
Afghan
prisoners of war in Cuba are treated without dignity, in violation of
the
Geneva Convention. At the same time, the U.S. has insisted that its
military personnel must be held exempt from war crimes charges by the
international community, regardless of their actions.

The United States repeatedly defies the resolutions and authority of
the
United Nations, making is clear that it views this body as merely a
tool
which can be occasionally used to achieve its special interests, rather
than those of humanity in general. America has also made it quite clear
that if its desires are not met by the international community/United
Nations, that it will act on its own regardless of their wishes, and in
whatever manner it sees fit. This includes pre-emptive military
invasion of
any country which dares to oppose its policies, and for whatever
flimsy,
baseless justification it gives to the world as an excuse for such
actions.

The international community must seriously ask itself, "Who's next?" in
this series of American invasions of sovereign lands. "Who will die
next...by the thousands, tens of thousands or millions..." at the
bloody
hands of American imperialism?

FOR THESE REASONS and others, it is hereby proposed that a United
Nations
resolution be created for the purpose of dis-arming and otherwise
rendering
harmless, the major threat to world peace which the United States has
become. Toward this end the necessity of ousting its current dictator,
George W. Bush, and the legislative bodies of that government which
currently parrot him without serious debate, is self evident.

The functional means necessary to achieve this goal are hereby
suggested.
They include;

1) Economic sanctions and trade tarriffs, aimed at undermining the U.S.
economy, thereby depriving its monstrous military apparatus of the
necessary life blood to function.

2) The insistence of a complete withdrawal of all U.S. military forces
from
wherever they may be stationed around the world. This includes U.S.
occupation forces already in conquered countries, (such as
Afghanistan).

3) The elimination of world petroleum exports to the United States, as
well
as the necessary raw materials which make it's industrial-military
apparatus possible.

4) The withdrawal of foreign investment in U.S. companies, and their
various enterprises. This includes the canceling of existing contracts
with
U.S. companies, especially those involved with the extraction of
petroleum,
the mining of precious metals, deforestation, sweat shop industries of
clothing, plastics, electronics and other manufacture, as well as other
vital resources from lands not within their territorial domain.

5) That U.S. military and civil leaders, especially George W. Bush and
his
entire cabinet, be brought to justice for their heinous participations
in
war crimes and crimes against humanity the world over, by the
international
courts. World leaders must understand that no one country can both make
the
rules and break them, when it comes to international justice.

6) The use of joint military force if necessary, to curb, restrict and
otherwise prevent the American advance toward world domination. America
must be deprived of what it most desires, which are the resources of
others
to fuel an extravagant lifestyle, and the support of bribed or bullied
foreign leaders to accomplish a singularly selfish, unilateral agenda.

In effect, the United States must feel the full pressure of
international
sovereignty, as it expresses its supreme dissatisfaction with the US
imperialism around the globe.

The United States must also understand that its anti-humanitarian,
corporate-minded, industrial-military schemes for global dominance are
nothing short of those employed by Hitler, and other fascist dictators
and
governments, throughout the course of history. [Constantly declaring
war
and occupying one country after the next demonstrates this.] The
international community, and indeed the peoples of the entire world,
find
this American attitude and behavior unacceptable. They will no longer
be
coerced or made to feel insecure in their own places of residence and
worship, at the behest of American whims.

Signed,

People of the free world

Forward this to your governments, United Nations representatives and
friends worldwide. Encourage others to do the same.

[< Back] [New Civilization News]

Category:  

25 comments

10 Oct 2002 @ 11:32 by sharie : The Terrorist Bush Regime
I agree! And I can't believe no one else at ncn has commented on this.

Add to every truth in this article the fact that the Bush regime stole control of the United States Government by using Judges to elect our President, rather than the *people* which is guaranteed to us in the founding our of Nation, that african-americans were turned away from voting, some were threatened with arrest if they didn't leave, that at least one ballot box in Florida's democratic region was never even picked up to be counted, and that George W Bush's brother was the Governor of this corrupt state, that George W Bush, his Vice President Dick Cheney, Dick Cheney's wife, George W Bush's father, etc., etc., own stock in weapons companies and will personally profit from any wars and military attacks, with the taxpayer being billed for their services.

How many counts of treason against our people is this?

How many crimes against humanity is this?

What sort of prison sentence is the Bush regime entitled to?

And what can *we the people* do with all their assets to be seized?

Either *we the people* seize their assets and put them to humanitarian use for american people OR we risk the UN seizing the assets of the Bush regime and donating their billions to other nations, to rebuild Afghanistan and Iraq, for example.


... And this from EVEYLN GOODMAN:

... I have seen a documentary video entitled: "Unprecedented: The 2000 Presidential Election", in which it is DOCUMENTED how Gov. Bush and Katherine Harris, (Secty of State of Florida, and also head of Bush' presidential campaign, AND head of the Election Board), who conspired to actually remove from the rolls legitimate voters' names, which were "matched" with those of felons who were ineligible to vote. (Not even all these felons were ineligible, either), in the amount of 57,000. They also commanded the counters to count overseas ballots which were legally ineligible, because they came in weeks after the deadline, which, of course, were Republicans who voted for Bush.

You can go to: www.unprecedented.org for further information.
I have purchased about 20 of these tapes, and have been trying to distribute them to various sources because it is important that they be brought to light that the man serving as President of our great country is illegitimate, to say the least!!!

And here we are at war, with our people paralyzed with the fear that this administration has deliberately promoted!  

10 Oct 2002 @ 12:06 by rishi : Refreshing
Dear Sharie,

It's good to hear from you again, and for the very lucid comments you've made. I'm very much in alignment with your surprise that there has been no other comments from the NCN crowd here, especially to this post. The very reason I was attracted here to start with, and to recently start a news log, is because of the revolutionary spirit I perceived amongst the NCN members, (combined with a spiritual focus as well). But to be honest, I see very little difference here so far in member reactions, than I did on UCS, or United Communities of Spirit. One gets a sense of "deja vu". I see a great many posts here on various news logs which clearly spell out the problems we face in society and government. That is all well and good. But what I see as quite lacking, as with other forums, is any fundamental sense of what to do about these problems. In "Give me Liberty or Give me Death" I offered several solutions but got no comments on them at all. I'd hoped for some comprehensive discussion and joint action.

As for the need of a regime change such as what you mentioned, that is exactly what I would call "just" especially in terms of international law. Interestingly, if you take any of this Bush administrations' speeches and insert the words "United States" for every time they say "Iraq" you'd have an even better case for "disarmament", "weapons of mass destruction" and "regime change". This is indeed what the United Nations must resolve...to disarm the major threat to world peace which the U.S. poses.  

11 Oct 2002 @ 10:54 by sharie : What to do... what to do...
Hi Matthew, as for *what to do about these problems*, I'm in agreement with you on many points, as you know.

There's no point in trying to *change* or *improve* the existing culture. It'll be a waste of time and energy. There's just too many flaws in it. From its economic theory to scientific theory to social policy to government to the justice system, criminal rehabilitation, education... it's all a waste. We'd do better to start all over at the beginning: create sustainable values, beliefs and goals to create a whole new world.

There are a number of ways of doing this. You and I and others all have created our own methods, but there seems to be so many brain-washed people suffering from *learned helplessness* supporting the insanity. They just don't seem to be able to extract themselves from their way of life, their mortgage payments or credit card debt or child support payments (financial debt is the most common reason people have for not excusing themselves from the self-destructive mainstream).

I'll read your "Give Me Liberty..." again.

I appreciate your sanity.  

12 Oct 2002 @ 11:24 by rishi : What to do
Sharie,

Yes, the question is definitely, "what to do"? There's a huge amount of apathy and denial out there in the public regarding even the most basic questions of human progress. The question, "Is war desirable" for instance, may seem obvious to you and I, but to many others it is a huge and convoluted question of political goals and special interest agendas. One thing I can think of is to say that we must continue to advocate honesty, and the valuing of truth above all else. I'm also preparing to launch a new round of World MInd Society mailings, meditations and activism, and hopefully, with the help of Ming via a new discussion area. We'll see...  

12 Oct 2002 @ 13:57 by sharie : WW III
I wish you well Matthew, there is a growing awakening, but it seems that murder, annihilation, and exploitation will be taking a toll. It looks like the Bush regime is heading for WW III. When George W took over the White House, I said "get ready for war because that's how these guys make their money".

Dick Cheney made over $30 million off the Gulf War, and the money the Bush family made was probably considerably more.

Before that was the millions and millions the Bush family siphoned off the Savings & Loan scandal during the 80's.

Everybody better get out of the big cities, because that's what'll get obliterated first (in the U.S. - NYC, DC, LA, San Fran, Chicago...)

I don't think these guys will stop 'til everything's been devasted.

The public doesn't seem to realize, this is a financial battle with trillions of dollars at stake, and the world players are multi-billionaires in the U.S., China, Saudi Arabia, Russia - these are billionaires.

It's not about *politics* or *governments* (that's the smoke screen to get the people all patiotic and willing to spend billions on war weapons), it's really about the billions and billions of dollars going into the pockets of a few men battling to gain control over the world, turning people into slaves as they go.

We already have global slavery, people just don't realize it (see my newslog entry "Emancipation Proclamation" among others).

This is the game that billionaires play, and it *is* a game to them, a game to the death (the death of the people). It's how they became billionaires in the first place, most of them. They don't care about human life. I've known some of them. I knew a Billionaire Chinese woman (mergers and acquisitions) who told me that people who weren't out to make money were worthless. That's the language she was programmed with - at Harvard and MIT - "if you don't have a net worth in the billions, you are *worth*less" and she believed it!.

During the 90's, two trillion dollars went missing from the Pentagon budget. Somebody got a huge leverage in this global power play (I think that's *really* what the 911 attacks were all about).

Then there's the billions that's missing from the IRS funds, and who knows how many other government departments (worldwide), strip mining, de-forestation, etc., etc. It's greed gone mad.

I'd like to hear what you have to say about this, Matthew, I don't see there's any stopping them. I think there'll be a great deal of global annihilation with a few pockets of people able to survive. I don't really think it's about Bush and Cheney, I think they're puppets to bunch of lunatics. Bush doesn't have the brains to tie his own shoes.

I'd like to hear your views on all this Matthew.

with love,
sharie  

13 Oct 2002 @ 09:21 by rishi : World War III
12 Oct 2002 @ 13:57 by sharie : WW III
Dear Sharie,

Just to let you know, I had a very lengthy reply prepared to your excellent letter here, which at the last minute didn't get posted and was somehow erased. So I'll try to summarize briefly what I said;

First, is that I See and Know that you are exactly "right on" with all of these observations. I haven't publically admitted realizing these things to anyone, knowing that they absolutely couldn't handle the knowledge. I see that this world society, led by the monster that the US and those who secretly run it has become, will indeed destroy itself and the majority of humanity with it. I also agree that given the amount of inertia behind current trends of war and destruction, that nothing short of a miraculous and extreme shift in world consciousness will change such a course.

I also see that the pockets of survivors, if any, will be in a position to start over, with the wisdom, (hopefully) earned from these experiences prior to the "great fall". If people like us can guide what remains into an enlightened age, knowing full well of both the need and the means to do so, then perhaps humanity will be redeamed after all. The comments you made on your newslog about the need to "completely start over" are perfectly expressed.

I continue to present the WMS knowledge under the public auspices that there is still hopw for the majority of humanity, even though I secretly know that on a physical level, there is little possiblity to turn the world situation around. However, as we teach to the souls of this planet there will be lasting change on that level, even though the biology of Homo Sapiens will likely not persist.

Let us confer further on these most important matters.

Warm regards and love,
Matt  

14 Oct 2002 @ 16:36 by sharie : Our Future
Planet Earth has undergone dramatic, cataclysmic changes over thousands and thousands of years. Ancient records from Greece, China, Iceland, and around the world indicate that at times the planet got so hot that the rivers and lakes boiled and mountains melted. According to ancient astronomical charts, this was caused by the gravitational pull of Venus and Mars coming dangerously close to Earth (the planets haven't always had the same orbits that they have now).

The cataclysms at the time of Moses were apparently going on around the world (according to ancient documents), not just in Egypt, and people managed to survive.

Archaeologists know that some deserts were once giant lakes, and that cataclysmic events shifted the landscape, with earthquakes, volcanoes, and meteors both destroying and creating new landmasses.

This is comforting.

People can survive in the most horrendous global catastrophes.

What we're headed for now is man-made. Like you, I don't think there's any stopping it.

I think some people will survive.

The book of Revelations says two-thirds of the world's population will perish.
This sounds realistic, given the war the Bush regime is about to undertake. China, Russia, and the Arabs will sit around and do nothing? I don't think so. China has already agreed to defend Iraq. This isn't even about governments, the billionaires use "patriotism" to get the people to empty their pockets to them, so they can stockpile more money for themselves.

The on-going propaganda lies about Iraq expose the underbelly of the greedy:
[link]

Again, I think anyone in the major cities, anyone near a nuclear power plant, anyone on the downside of a dam, anyone in flood planes, etc., ought to move to higher ground in a remote or rural area.  

14 Oct 2002 @ 17:54 by rishi : Post-Armageddon
Dear Sharie,

I see you read WSWS as well....I keep writing them saying that they need more than a political remedy, even though they expertly identify social problems. I tell them that without a spiritual platform, their advocated socialist agenda will end no differently then that of democracy or capitalism in general.

In any case, you know I don't see any likely possibility for a worldwide social turn-around, away from widespread destruction. There's a great deal of inertia involved, as in the analogy of a boulder that has rolled down a hill for a long time. As it gains speed there is less and less chance of stopping it until it has run its course. Materialistic society is that boulder, and it's stopping point is entropy-anarchy. Never the less, I have something I want to point out about continued spiritual ministry during this period. Total social turn-around is not the only goal. After all, we are not just physical bodies, but souls/centers of consciousness as well. Our spiritual ministry and its message will therefore continue on in its effects, even if there is no such thing as a Homo Sapien left on Earth. It will continue on in the form of more enlightened souls/centers of consciousness, which are the true basis of self and life anyway. The souls of those who read our words will resonate with their message, even if the personality which is disenfranchised with their own soul does not. So you see, our efforts are not futile and never wasted.

Furthermore, even if you or I or anyone else here was the last person alive on the planet, the same essential need of the soul to grow, for consciousness to expand, would exist. We would still have need to meditate, to raise our vibration, to gain energy and to apply wisdom. Even if it is our last hour of breath all of these things and needs remain true.

Lastly, the expansion of consciousness is the very intent and purpose of life, and that which is called God behind it. This fact remains true even if there are no humans left. So when we advocate this cause, we are acting on behalf of those universal purposes which animate all life on all planets, and which give rise to greater sophistication even in the black of space. Again, nothing lost through our continued efforts to reach others, and everything to gain. There is simply nothing of greater merit to which we may apply ourselves, and this fact will never change.

For these reasons I ask you and others not to consider our mutual cause either hopeless or futile, because our cause goes well beyond merely this planet or even this galaxy. The Path itself refines our souls, as we both follow and advocate it. This too will never change. Such conversations as these are something we should continue to have on the work group(s) so that others may gain benefit from them.

Rishi  

17 Oct 2002 @ 19:27 by sharie : heaven on earth
Dear Matthew,

Do you have visions of heaven on earth?

Do you believe in heaven on earth is possible?

Here is an excerpt from an email I sent to a friend in Hawaii today:

I'm beginning to understand...
those of us having visions of heaven
are those who are transcending to it...
if only we make this our choice,
otherwise we go the way of death.

Everything you have said about heaven is true,
everyone living in peace and harmony -
humans, animals, and with the earth...
as if we will live on earth but in another realm -
it's like the quantum physicists say:
"Worlds within worlds" and "other worlds"
also like the channeler Lyara is saying:

[link]

Have you heard of her messages?

Jehovah's Witnesses are also saying heaven on earth is coming, only they don't understand that it comes from within.

The JW I'm talking to was shocked that I think God lives within us. She seemed to think that was preposterous. I think the JW are misguided in that.

But Heaven on Earth is my priority.

Living in heaven on earth, being Heaven on earth,
I just want to get more in touch with this until I become my true self.

This is my priority.

Looking forward to your comment.

with love,
sharie  

17 Oct 2002 @ 21:11 by rishi : Post-Armageddon - Pre-Heaven
Dear Sharie,

In the last post I made before yours I was talking about the spiritual merit of continued ministry, regardless of the physical world outcome. I had hoped to get a reply from you about this, since during our previous conversations you seemed to indicate that you felt such ministry was futile, because no one was going to listen and change. So I am trying to understand what you are getting at with your last post, in the context of our previous discussions.

You also mentioned that you perceive that all the social norms and institutions of our day should be re-thought out, discarded and replaced with ones that really work. I agree with every word of this.

Of course I also agree with creating heaven on earth, but as always I consider what practical measures are necessary to accomplish such a thing given the state of the modern world. It sounds to me like we're driving along parallel lines here to the same basic destination...that seems a little redundant.

I'd like to see our spiritual efforts work more in concert rather than just being parallel. My offer to you to join the "Raising the World Mind" workgroup remains open, needless to say.

Rishi  

19 Oct 2002 @ 13:55 by sharie : Heaven Here and Now
Dear Matthew,

Thank you for your continued correspondence on this vital topic. I don't always get online everyday, and when I do, I'm feeling the need to go deep within to see clearly this new and beautiful world that's become my focus, my destiny, and my guide.

I feel a natural process, a oneness with this heaven on earth which has existed all along, as I evolve and manifest as one with it. I feel myself needing to be with this oneness, to embrace heaven, to *be* heaven, and this is how I am guided to raise the world mind.

This is how I see my contribution to your workgroup, if you feel this would be of any help to you, I'll be happy to help.

with love,
sharie  

19 Oct 2002 @ 14:36 by rishi : Heaven here and Now
Ok, sounds good to me. Participate as you are called to do, of course.  

19 Oct 2002 @ 18:34 by AW @67.84.24.56 : Truly despicable

Well, this site here is among the most revolting, despicable Goebbelianisms I've come across online. What a load of Anti-American crap you've assembled here.

And I thought this was a site about changing the world for the better. What incredible, inexcusable nonsense.

You folks are in desperate need of help.
Time here for a little bit of helpful perspective:

[link]

http://mattwelch.com/old/2001_11_04_lettersarchive.html#6944345

[link]

http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson110901.shtml
[link]

http://pejmanpundit.blogspot.com/2002_09_08_pejmanpundit_archive.html#81337613

[link]

Granted, it's not much, but it's a start.

Truly an "ADL" to deal with Anti-Americanism is needed..  

19 Oct 2002 @ 19:22 by zulubaby @4.60.126.52 : Disgusting!
This site is psychotic?

Do you people live in the US?

Fascinating how the "peace-lovers" of the world always seem to be the most violent. This is truly sickening.  

19 Oct 2002 @ 21:45 by rishi : AW and Zulubaby
You're right, it is disgusting, (how our nation no longer stands for freedom) and I've been saying that for years now. I'm sure you both, being true patriots and responsible citizens, are thoroughly familiar with both the Constitution and the Bill of Rights of the United States. Given this familiarity, I'm sure you are also distressed, as are we all, of the flagrant abuses of those documents which our government has heaped upon We the People. There is surely no one here who, like you, does not both appreciate and protect the spirit written into both of these inspired works. The point being made here is that our fine nation has drifted Far from the intent and spirit of the Founding Fathers, and this does not bode well for America.

I'm sure you'll want to discuss this matter further, for it is in the interest of all free people everywhere. For this purpose, I strongly suggest you read my previous post here entitled, "Give me Liberty or Give Me Death", as excellent material for further consideration.

I look forward to it.

Rishi  

19 Oct 2002 @ 23:41 by RM @63.194.154.106 : What a fool believes...
Be honest people. You're masochists.

You hate living in the most open, freest society in world history. This country is a nightmare for you. But what's worse, is your hatred for those who don't have what we have.

You've proven it over and over again.

I remember how you ignored the murder of millions by Stalin.
I remember how you opposed the war against the genocidal Milosevic.
And I will remember how you have supported a dictator who has gassed the Kurds, invaded two countries, and assasinates his opponents.

The deaths and suffering of millions is nothing to you. The liklihood that millions of Americans will die if the Islamofascists are not stopped is nothing to you. Better that we should die than defend our families and children, right?

So go make you paper mache puppets and scream "No blood for Oiiiiiil!" until you are hoarse. Saddam is listening. Al Queda is listening. They love to hear you ululate.

Lenin, another of your heroes, had this to say about people like you: "useful idiots."  

20 Oct 2002 @ 02:19 by Dogmatic Law @68.2.183.40 : Useful Idiots
Man, this document, and the follow-up comments are funny enough to make me blow 7-Up out my nose. It’s always good to know that any time I start to get the feeling that perhaps people are starting to take a more enlightened, logical view of the world, there will always be dopey “useful idiots” like yourselves that prove that silliness knows no limits.  

20 Oct 2002 @ 02:24 by jazzolog : A Sniper Among Us?
I've posted you an email about the above comments, Rishi. I congratulate you for trying to reason with this person(s).  

20 Oct 2002 @ 08:31 by Mark Edwards @68.68.115.145 : Just wondering
I have to congratulate you, never in my life have I seen someone write so many words at such length, and still not say a damn thing of relevance. You could have accomplished the same thing in two sentences if you harnessed all the collective power of your surviving brain cells.... All three of them. That you hate everybody and everthing is actually good news, that means you are miserable and alone. Which is natures way of telling you that you aren't getting it. Bush and America aren't your problem, mental illness is your problem. Seek help,.......or live alone and unwanted next to a dumpster somewhere, either way the choice would be yours.  

20 Oct 2002 @ 11:06 by rishi : Your provocations...a Purpose anyone?
Dear AW, Zulubaby, Ntropy, Domestic Law, Hen, and Mark Edwards,

My, this is really quite a bevy of righteous indignation, isn't it Hen? Or should I call you Aw or Entropy? In any case, to whoever you are, and to however many of you there are, I'd like to ask you one simple question. Where would you like to see this interaction go from here? Do you want this to be a dialog of some kind, or perhaps a debate, (my preference)? If you want to debate, then lets talk about facts. First you present your evidence, then I'll present more of mine. We'll go back and forth for a while and then see what there is to see.

I take it that you read my, "Give me Liberty or Give Me Death", though didn't mention it by name. So let's hear some more specifics about why you think this article is false, or wrong. If all you want is to unload a great deal of provocation, presumably with the intent to start a "cyber fight" of some kind, go ahead. But I'm only interested in facts, and sincere debate. I will listen contentedly while you continue to hurl insults, waiting to see how great your lasting power is. Go ahead, carry on for days, weeks or months...that's fine.

I went to some of the links you suggested, by the way, and found little there in the way of evidence or specifics.  

20 Oct 2002 @ 15:02 by spells : The Spirit of Debate
I'd like to join in here, for a true debate....backing up statements with facts and truth. This is the true spirit of debate and one that is rarely seen. For those that believe we are involved with the rest of world for the highest benefit of all, for freedom and democracy and for the upholding of human rights...I give you the following link with evidence of some of the "terrorist" activities by our one and only...US Military.

A Chronology of U.S. Terrorism Operations
[link]

(...) This list of nations represents literally millions of human beings all over the world who have been brutally murdered - directly by the United States military/government or by its obedient proxies. Huge though the list is, there is yet more to add. But it does at least contain most of the known campaigns of American state terrorism, genocide and subversion - all of which are in the historical record for the whole world to see. God only knows what evil the U.S. government and military have committed that remains hidden. And as long as the United States remains a military power, the list of state terror victims will keep growing. HERE IS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT IS LISTED THERE... (And there is a LOT more!) 2001 - 2002 American State Terrorism of the Afghan Peoples Estimated civilian deaths: 4000-5000 people With total hypocrisy the United States military terrorized and mass-murdered thousands of innocent Afghan civilian people, supposedly in reprisal for the terror attacks of September 11. As they did in Yugoslavia and Iraq, heroic U.S. Air Force pilots murdered thousands of women and children by bombing hospitals and schools and private homes. They even bombed an Afghan wedding party. None of these innocent, civilian victims had anything whatsoever to do with the September 11 attacks. Obviously the so-called "war on terrorism" is a total sham. The real reason the U.S. is in Afghanistan is to get control of Caspian Sea oil. To get the oil out of the Caspian basin they have to run pipelines through Afghanistan. Most unfortunate for the hapless Afghan people.  

22 Oct 2002 @ 03:33 by Steven C @163.1.103.121 : Oil?
"The real reason the U.S. is in Afghanistan is to get control of Caspian Sea oil. To get the oil out of the Caspian basin they have to run pipelines through Afghanistan."

The US is often accused of supporting repressive regimes in the name of oil. The Taleban were a repressive regime, and what's more they were desperate for external investment. Unocal wanted to build a 800m oil pipeline through Afghanistan, and the Taleban (i.e. invest) were interested. Why didn't the US simply prop up the (repressive) Taleban for the sake of all that Caspian and Central Asian oil?
*********
Yes, the US is often accused of this, and rightly so. Just like a junky who will do anything for their next fix, the US will drop bombs on anyone, and under any flimsy pretext to get oil. Without it, this consumer culture would fall flat on its face within weeks.
*****

By opposing US oil interests you are like the man who opposes the law, because it makes lawyers rich (bad!). If the US never bought another drop of Saudi oil that country would get very much poorer. And doesn't poverty breed, um, terrorism?
****
Actually, by opposing uS oil interests, people of spiritual focus and those who still have some feeling in them, oppose greed and murder for the sake of greed.  

22 Oct 2002 @ 07:03 by Lee Harvey @132.20.251.12 : US as a Terrorist State?
This is in response to the post above listing the US as a terrorist state. So the US military is a terrorist organization because 5000 innocent afghans died in the attacks on the Taliban...hhmm...its time for you to grow up.

*****
No, this is actually only one reason among many. You seem as though you're quite informed on these matters, so I'll ask you this. How many governments in the world, in the last 30 years, has the US covertly interfered with using CIA operatives? How many has it thrown down only to replace their leaders with puppets on the CIA payroll, who do Washingtons' bidding like any dog on a chain? How many tens of thousands people have died as a result of these various coups, which our taxpayer money funded?

***

First, I fully supported our actions in Afghanistan for the simple reason that Al-Qaeda and the Taliban govt that supported them were a direct threat to the people of the US.

***
Actually it wasn't the Taliban that bombed the twin towers. That's why we had no excuse going after the government of Afghanistan, since their involvement was pretty minimal. After all, 14 of the 16 highjackers were Saudi citizens, but we won't go to war with them will we? Why? Again it's because of their oil and our previous sly "deals" with them.
***
***
Drawing a moral equivalence, however, to innocents dying in bombings and turning jetliners into missiles in A CALCULATED EFFORT TO KILL AS MANY INNOCENTS AS POSSIBLE is simply ridiculous. Of course some innocents died in Afghanistan, but you cannot have war without that type of casualty, especially when the enemy is using tactics to maximize civilian deaths.
****
The "enemy" was not the sovereign nation of Afghanistan. Most Afghanis were and are just trying to survive while we literally rain hell down upon them, at the tune of a billion dollars a day for bombs. Now we own them. They are not a "democracy" any more than they were before US occupation. Our puppet Karzai is there who will dance whenever he's told, and who survives only because he's surrounded by US bodyguards.
***
Civilian casualties are an ugly fact of life, and if you say they are wrong in any case, then you are saying you are against war in any case.
***
They are an ugly fact in your life, not mine. If we're such a powerful nation, then why can't we figure out better ways to deal with world problems?
*****

Specifically, if you can't see the difference between a nation which SPECIFICALLY DESIGNS IT WEAPONS to minimize civilian deaths and an organization/govt which tries to maximize them, you are beyond help.
***
Tell me, what is "specifically designed" about depleted uranium munitions?
****
Worse, that kind of thing smacks of an ugly anti-americanism.

*****
Why is anything anti-American "ugly"?
****

Honest dissent is one thing, backwards moral equivalancies which inevitably put the US at fault in any situation are quite the other.
****
And if this whole Iraq adventure eventually results in World War 3, will you look back and call its criticism, "backwards moral equivalancies" then?  

22 Oct 2002 @ 08:05 by mrmister @151.202.11.97 : Useful Idiots.
You'll get yours.

Really? How wonderful!  

24 Oct 2002 @ 12:28 by sharie : Other Relevant Views of Bush...
http://www.gwbush.com/

[link]  

Your Name:
Your URL: (or email)
Subject:       
Comment:
For verification, please type the word you see on the left:

Other entries in
31 Aug 2008 @ 12:48: Election '08: You Make Me Feel So Young!
12 Aug 2008 @ 09:13: Truth, Denial and Fascism
5 Aug 2008 @ 20:08: Alexanders Ragtime Band
24 Mar 2008 @ 20:50: Is it time?
29 Feb 2008 @ 06:49: Vote For MRS. Barack Obama!
24 Feb 2008 @ 13:25: What's With Hillary?
19 Feb 2008 @ 21:28: Letter to presidential candidates
18 Feb 2008 @ 10:26: Is Obama The Answer?
4 Feb 2008 @ 19:45: Citizen McCain
31 Jan 2008 @ 19:53: The King of Mountebanks?

[< Back] [New Civilization News] [PermaLink]?