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Ascend, Evolve, Expand.....: NCN Apathy and Triviality |
Category: Articles 36 comments
15 Aug 2004 @ 13:47 by hgoodgame : Hi Sandi - 15 Aug 2004 @ 14:56 by b : There are a small number of people here who come on as holier then thou. You and rishi are just two more. 15 Aug 2004 @ 15:37 by scotty : Sandi ! I don't doubt for one second that you want to help people to change for the better. (and I choose to ignore the judgmentalism that your desire implies) I wonder though if coming from anger is the best method ! Your comments usually start quite innocuously and with good intent... you ask a question or make a statement... someone usually replies. If it's what you expect or hope to hear - the conversation continues. If not - you tend to become agressive - not realising perhaps that other people have integrity of their own ideas or intentions - and a counterattack is usually what follows ! This mental attachment you have to your own point of view grows - and quite naturally so does theirs. Before we know it anger is being played out pretty much like a game of tennis..... 'Ill take my shot and then you take yours'. Back and forward back and forward it goes - each player making it worse while getting in our shots. Why? "Quality of existence is derived from the soul, not the bodys breath of life. Embodiment is an expression of the souls purpose to know and develop itself more fully while serving its role in the Divine Plan of creation. Little happens that does not contribute to that purpose."... { http://www.mysticpoet.org/Pages/awakening.html} 15 Aug 2004 @ 15:40 by jazzolog : It's Wonderful to read an entry full of such passion! I too would think even a Network claiming to provide links with people intent upon something resembling any kind of civilization would brim with focus upon the overwhelming dilemmas facing the species. Instead we have fairy tea parties under the mushrooms. 15 Aug 2004 @ 15:46 by scotty : Really helpful and iluminating comment there Jazzolog - thanks ! 15 Aug 2004 @ 17:45 by rishi : Your hypocrisy really Stinks What immediately impresses me about these replies so far, is this... THERE'S VERY LITTLE HONESTY in them. By the way, we both expected exactly that kind of response. Heidi, Swan, Scotty, your responses are those of scoundrels and typical of the American public and the Western world in general. Why not be honest and admit that you're not here to really ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING, but to "look good", get some mutual ego stroking and find some "emotional reassurance" in a world gone astray? Face it, the content of your news logs, just like the majority here, is primarily NONSENSE that doesn't mean anything! What isn't nonsense, such as discussions of the state of society, or mind, spirit, international affairs, etc. rarely comes to any conclusions, and ALMOST NEVER results in actually DOING ANYTHING! I tell you no lie, it's the same pattern every time. Every single time any discussion actually comes to the "so what are we going to DO about it" phase, that's precisely when everyone walks casually away. You don't really care, and now you're being revealed. I have the same perception of this sorry state of affairs as I do when I go to the local small-town grocery store. I can sum that up in a single sentence, and that is; "My God, how did humanity ever sink so low as to produce ADULTS as dim witted, uncaring, unaware, and frankly LAME as these?" When I read the content of your logs I find myself saying, "Who in their right mind could possibly care about this bullshit?" and furthermore, "Who in their right mind would go on and on as most of you do, never really changing a thing about the human condition?" You people and most other human beings are here for only one reason and one reason alone, and that is for the sake of gratifying your ego and hiding from the REAL WORLD. The fact is, you CAN'T HANDLE the real world. THAT's why you're here, spinning these illusions together and feeling all cozy in your mutual mediocrity. That's why you are absolutely TERRIFIED to speak of truth, reality, or be held in any way ACCOUNTABLE in real life, and in terms of REAL ACTION. You're not honest because you're not for real. You're not for real because you're too busy spinning images about yourselves to each other, (lies) that don't hold an ounce of water. Sorry, but life is not about human "happiness" or the catering to human whims. In other words, that's not the purpose of the universe or the planet Earth. You're here to do an evolutionary job, and you're failing miserably at it. Also, not everyone "has their agenda" as though all agendas are equal. They are not. You either recognize what life is all about or you don't. This place, like so many others, is not about real life, it's a lunatic asylum where the madness of the modern world gets played out. You want an example of what I'm saying? Ok, I'll give you a perfect one that's right in front of your face, as you read Spells' log. You missed it without even realizing it, (because like most "first world" people you take your priviledged status as a given, and it's made you both selfish and naive). Every one of your, "Oh, I'm just so insulted because I'm above all your wrongful accusations" types of comments, speak as though there was no ARTICLE afterwards describing the ATROCITIES being committed in your name RIGHT NOW AS WE SPEAK in Najaf Iraq. While you people are talking your quaint philosphies, your gossip, trivia and ego-touting dribble, people are dying by the hundreds every week in a country that in all probablity YOU are paying TO DROP BOMBS ON, murder people in their homes, cripple their children, and do other such evil deeds around the world. But not one of you mentioned the content of the article. All YOU care about is defending your hurt egos from rightful accusations, which only further proves the point made in this log. Both Spells and I have posted COUNTLESS well written articles on these subjects, both before and after the so called "Iraq War" and not one of you ever commented then about such things. But what does immediately get your attention? Any threat to your false self image, that's what! You obviously find nothing of importance about the article as it describes people dying and suffering at the hands of invaders bent on world conquest, attacking them without provocation. But you DO find it worth commenting on your insulted egos. Now what does this tell you about your miserable selves? I hope it tells you that you are quite insane, just like the mass media which you believe in and the government you grovel in front of, and the flags you wave. Do you pay taxes? Do you send your children to the local brainwashing institutions, (public schools) so that they can become good little soldiers and corporate henchmen, on behalf of this evil empire we are in the midst of? Yes, I'll bet you do. Furthermore, I'll bet you will STILL pay taxes for bombs and covert CIA operations to overthrow foreign governments, and out of the other side of your mouth, you'll tell the neighbors about how, "proud you are to be an American" REGARDLESS of the facts presented. As scoundrels, you are very adept at never admitting the way things really ARE, or to acknowledge your complicity in keeping it that way. The whole reason Spells and I made this post is precisely because (almost)No one here really cares. The only way to get you focused is to speak to you as the naughty little children that you are. Heidi and Scotty, you speak about being "judgemental", but that's just a New Age platitude and a cop out. You can't function above the level of imbecile without exercising some judgement...even a squirrel knows that when it crosses a highway, (or at least the ones that stay alive know it). Aren't you "judging" us by telling us that we're "judgemental"? Your position is absurd and once again, dishonest. This New Age bullshit is about finding a way OUT of your responsiblity as intelligent adults, and further, as souls in bodies. I suspect that YOU KNOW THAT deep down but don't dare admit it. Your souls are crying out trying to get you all to WAKE UP, but you are denying the call through every convenient means of escape. Our entire species is DYING and you go merrily on your way as though nothing is wrong and everybody is doing what they're supposed to do.. Where is all your "you shouldn't judge" nonsense when it comes to bombing Iraq? I mean, as a country we "judged" them unworthy of running their own country did we not? So get off the "judgement" thing because it stinks of foul hypocrisy. You think you can get away with such nonsense simply because everyone else says it, not because it's true and right. The next dishonest and entirely bogus idea that you New Agers spout, is that "everything is just the way it's supposed to be". God that's awful. That BS makes me really nauseous, and children of 6 should know better. Everything is NOT the way it is supposed to be, no matter what happens or how it happens. That line is yet another excuse to get out of your responsiblity as adults for the state of yourselves, your lives and the world in general. It is no better than the fundamentalist Christian line of "just believe in Jesus" or "confess your sins" and then go right ahead with your entirely anti-Christ style of living. Tell me, would you say "everything is just the way it should be" if YOU were the ones being bombed, starved, dehydrated, refused medicine, embargoed, poisoned with depleted uranium, your media censored, your true patriots defamed as "traitors and terrorists" your government subverted undemocratically and your doors kicked in by the modern equivalent of Nazi occupation? No I don't think you would. But you sick fucks, you just sit there in your cozy little homes with every convenience known to man, spouting about how wonderful life is, and all the while paying to have other people murdered, raped and pillaged! You people make me really sick, and that is just being quite honest with you. Finally, let me explain something to you about spiritual practice. It's not about indulging your comfort zone, or patting each other on the back in the spirit of "pseudo-community" while not really doing ANYTHING to change the world. It means getting HONEST, doing what needs to be done such as changing your own lifestyle and encouraging others to do the same. It means speaking the truth, not comfortable lies. It means being prepared to really STAND UP for what you believe in regardless of what is considered politically correct, comfortable and New Age warm and fuzzy. Understand? I mean it would take an idiot not to understand that right? Or do you think all this talk here is really going to create a "new civlization"? If so, you are as naive as you are ignorant. 15 Aug 2004 @ 18:03 by swanny : Talk, ideas and actions Here is some ideas I came across which are really quite good but they are just more ideas and talk when what is needed is what??? action or..... hmmmm What about the people that don't want a world without terror.... what about them.... the death wishers...... And people don't show up for work unless their is money somehow involved Life is a condition of dynamic disparity..... think about it read the thread.... any way what do we need...... no not more aggression and not more passisivism and not more passive/agression but to live with assertion perhaps a "graceful" assertion and well don't mind me..... Im a romantist not a passionist here the ideas from Jim "Inclusionism" 08-15-04, 04:29 pm (PDT) Since diplomatic methods over a number of years did not resolve the terrorism situation, we should grant that the Bush administration is sincere in their switch to military and police methods. The problem is that those methods usually don't work to suppress underground groups where the people involved are highly motivated, and there is an exploding backlash against the United States in the rest of the world, the backlash having accelerated with the use of torture, holding people incommunicado, and refusing the rights to counsel, etc. There is evidence from polls that all over the world, people are becoming highly afraid of the United States, and a conflict between America and most of the rest of the world would be rather dangerous. Therefore, we need to look again to see if there are any new kinds of diplomatic initiatives, different from all the failed mathods that have been tried before, that might work. Some readers might be able to come with a better idea than I have, but my own thinking is this: Terrorism is powered by people being poor and disadvantaged with no hope for the future. If everyone in the world had a minimum standard of living equal to an upper middle class American standard of living, we wouldn't have terrorist groups. We would have to factor in environmental and sustainability concerns, but essentially, if diplomatically, the world put into place a set of policies and proceedures that would obviously provide such a standard of living for everybody in the world in the near future, the terrorist problem would probably melt away. I am aware of how extremely difficult this would be, but there is a proceedure that I believe would work. By the way, all my ideas can be improved upon, so no doubt there are readers who could add important details to my proposal which would make it better. The key policy would be an absolute international requirement that the world economy be improved by methods which would produce the simultaneous benefit of every nation, every group, and every individual. The requirement of benefiting everyone, not just something like "the greatest number", is the reason I am calling this Inclusionism. The world economy is currently not well coordinated, but it is large enough so that if it were taken as a unity, we would be at the traditional take-off point at which an economy grows rapidly, but a take-off point for the entire world, not just a single nation as has happened in the past. Immediately, it becomes obvious that we would have to become much more careful of the environment. This can be done, because there are processes and product alternatives already available which would be safe for the environment. Businesses could change over to these safer products and processes, and still earn profits, just as they do today. In a few areas where there isn't a safe product yet, an Inclusionist approach would be to fund a crash research program to develop an environmentally safe alternative. In some cases, businesses might need a little help to change over to environmentally safe processes and products, and it would be wise to give them this help where needed. In other cases, businesses could change over on their own, as long as their competitors were required to change over at the same time. We also have a number of products in the pipeline that would reduce the need for rare raw materials, so to make the world economy sustainable, business would shift over to those, and crash research programs funded to develop other product substitutions that were needed. To do all this would probably require thousands of arrangements and special projects, and the international coordination of all of this would require the world's best expertise plus the use of highly complet computer models run on extremely advanced supercomputers. But that could be done, and it is the method of doing this that could create an arrangement that everyone in the world could trust, so making terrorism unnecessary from the point of view of people who are now disadvantaged. The proposal is that several nonprofit Inclusionist thinktanks be established. Each thinktank would have several thousand top experts in all relevant scientific disciplines, plus highly skilled computer programmers to help create the highly advanced computer models required. In addition, each thinktank would have a large research budget for grants to outside scientists to discover knowledge and develop products the thinktank members felt were necessary. The output of the thinktanks would be policy recommendations, year after year, to the world's nations. These would include things like the most effective ways to regulate trade, investment, minimum wage levels, etc. within the complex whole of the world economy. The Inclusionist thinktanks would have no power, but rather the governments and citizens of the several nations would make the decisions on whether or not to accept various recommendations. It would be the task of the thinktanks to come up with ideas that were so obviously beneficial that the governments and citizens would naturally want to accept them. There would be several thinktanks so that their recommendations could be compared. This would tend to catch any errors. The final important thing would be the appointment of the Board of Trustees of the thinktanks. The board would need to be appointed by people who understand how to make discoveries and create effective new solution ideas. This is something almost no politicians know how to do, but major scientists and scholars who have made important discoveries know how to make discoveries. Therefore, I am proposing three Inclusionist thinktanks with the Boards of Trustees appointed in the following ways. 1. For the first thinktank, the members of the Board of Trustees would be elected by all the living Nobel Prize winners. 2. The trustees of the second Inclusionist thinktank would be elected by the professors of the top universities in the world (one or two per nation) except for any faculty members who were Nobel Laureates. 3. The Board of Trustees of the third thinktank would be elected by the top 10,000 scientists and scholars of the world measured by the number of citations in the works of others their own work had received. This would not include any who were Nobel Prize winners, or professors in the Univesities in group 2, above. Therefore, there would be no overlap. There would be no risk in this. If the Inclusionist thinktanks didn't come up with good ideas, the world could simply not follow their suggestions. With that level of expertise, however, I believe the really would come up with good policy and project proposals for the world's nations. In addition, the cost, as a percentage of the entire Gross World Product would be minute, so funding of the thinktanks would be easy. In addition, if the thinktanks came up with even just a few good ideas, that would repay the costs of their operations with massive additional interest in terms of increased growth of the world economy, and military and police savings. Jim 15 Aug 2004 @ 18:22 by skookum : yup spells that's me! you are invited to read my blog too... by the way.. just in case there might be SOMETHING... there. ;-) 15 Aug 2004 @ 19:06 by scotty : "Our entire species is DYING " you say - well - if we're as bad as you say we are - then the sooner the better! but then - I happen to think that you're mistaken ! 15 Aug 2004 @ 19:16 by ov : Ok, Matthew or Sandi " By the way, we both expected exactly that kind of response. " Let's see a little honesty here, let's start right here in this topic, in this log, baby steps, baby steps, maybe what we have here is a failure to communicate. Sounds like you both discussed and planned this topic ahead of time, based on the sentence I quoted at the start of the comment. First question: Is this street theatre? And if so, what objectives were you expecting to achieve. Second question: If the responses you have received were exactly what you were expecting than is it safe to assume that your objective was acheived? And if so, why does it sound like you are upset? Are you really upset, or is this topic simply a rhetorical tactic? I'm trying to suspend my assumptions until I hear your answers to these preliminary questions. 15 Aug 2004 @ 19:24 by hgoodgame : There is nothing New Age in the Book of Tao or in the Bhagavad-Gita. To truly know that all life is doing it's dance, that all of this is 'maya' and all the while go about your business whatever that may be, that is the timeless wisdom. I cannot profess as you do, to knowing how things 'really' are. We are all doing exactly what is necessary, witness you reaction. Boy did we push your buttons! Now this gives you the opportunity to recognize and work on some attachments. Attachments to things is only one small hook. There's attachment to ideals, attachment to having others agree with you. By the way, judgement is human. The squirrel discerns or intuits. 15 Aug 2004 @ 19:40 by swanny : Empathy People..... They are we remember and we are all feeling a little powerless and despairing over a world that is yes dying..... perhaps a little innocence that is dying.... feeling as though we must save it from ourselves from the darker side of ourselves....... alas.... we are powerless in a sense for all we can really change all that we really own is ourselves all that we control is our responces to injustice to the unfairness of life to the unfairness and treachery of broken dreams The world people we are changing and maybe changing in ways we didn't want or didn't plan..... is it a curse or is it an opportunity.... Something old is dying we have to let go something new is being born we have to learn to accept it...... its not all bad news though unless we want it to be ..... we have a choice of how we will respond growth progress evolution maturity its all part of life.... and with it comes pain but there is still joy too..... weve found the pain ..... for sure...... maybe we are in need of some joy now and should start looking for that..... something old is dying ..... some innocence lost..... but what is being born.....????? 15 Aug 2004 @ 19:47 by spells : What's more important,, truth or image? Ov said; "First question: Is this street theatre? And if so, what objectives were you expecting to achieve. Second question: If the responses you have received were exactly what you were expecting than is it safe to assume that your objective was acheived? And if so, why does it sound like you are upset? Are you really upset, or is this topic simply a rhetorical tactic? " ******** Those are good questions. The objective sought here, which we hope would be taken at face value, is that these issues and world events NEED to be addressed, and addressed seriously. Such commentary would not be necessary were it not for the fact that we have posted literally DOZENS of such articles here, (well written ones, giving plenty of good reasoning and examples)from a variety of sources, and NOT ONE of them even gets even one comment here in the "new civilization". Funny, that such matters spark absolutely no interest or at least commentary, when the supposed purpose of this forum is to create a better world, wouldn't you say? Actually, "funny" isn't the word..."tragic" suits the situation better. How can you improve the world if you aren't even willing to admit there is something wrong to start with? Our objective is not achieved until people actually get seriously interested in action. Let us just say this...were it not for that note we put before the article on Iraq, there would have been NO COMMENT, ie, no interest. If what it takes to change the world, or at least this forum, is to involve peoples' ego/self image, (which they apparently love above all else) then so be it. We sound upset because of the very reasons rishi quoted in the comments above. We sound upset because this is the state of the world in micro-cosm form, and it's very difficult to keep silent about it, when the answers to the world's problems are relatively simple to address...ie a change of values. Real spiritual practitioners do occasionally get upset about outright hypocrisy and needless destruction, believe it or not! Why aren't you upset about it? This is also because we've had experience with SO MANY other forums in the last four years, and the writing on the wall only gets bolder all the time. Heidi, if you KNEW FOR a fact that the current course of society would result in the deaths of most if not all human beings, and other advanced life forms on this planet within 50 years, would you still be calling that course, "wisdom"? Judgement IS discernment. 15 Aug 2004 @ 20:12 by hgoodgame : We each know or can know, what our 'area' of work is here on this planet. Mine is to observe from a space of non-duality and to stay in that state as much as possible. This is partially what I contribute energy-wise to this dimension. The wisdom I speak of does not exist in 'time'. My answer to your question is yes. That I'm sure is harsh to you but when viewed from eternity and infinity, this is a small place and every evolving soul will find other worlds to continue its evolutionary journey if it happens that we mess this one up. Which I really do not believe we will. Fear is the only real enemy to us now. There are so many beautiful spirits already incarnate on this planet to help during this transitionary time. Judgement is not discernment. Judgement is to think one has the answers for others, and denotes a sense of superiority - it has to do with concepts like right/wrong. Discernment observes and learns, is open to new views. There will always be those who take the sides, that's what living in duality is all about. So pick your side. Just don't expect me to pick any side at all, because I won't. What you will hear from me is the truth as I know it. I don't have to disparage anyone in that process. 15 Aug 2004 @ 20:21 by swanny : Majority vs Minority Yes many articles are posted that focus on the "problem" areas..... but consider that the problems are of a the minority..... If you consider that we are a world of nearly 8 billion people living in relative and yes it is relative or relational harmony statistically speaking thats pretty good...... now Im not trying to diminish necessary the problem we face and yes some are serious and if we follow the mass media then well we'll be sucked into their vortex of doom and gloom but ignoring them doesn't make them better.... In all fairness given the numbers we're doing not to bad..... how can we do better though????? hmmmmmm well not by worrying ourselves silly and not by ignoring but how???? can we stamp out all injustice all terrorism all tradegdy all poverty all etc etc...... or are they built into the system...... is any amount acceptable ..... perhaps not but it is a symptom or reality of reality..... systemic problems won't change unless the system changes but do we really want to change a system that is working for the majority in the hopes that it will be perfect.... I don't think it will ever or could ever be perfect.... okay but that doesn't help the starving child or the dying woman or spell and rishi who really seem to worry and care.... Thankyou for caring then thats about the best I can do Caring isn't easy but its a good thing to do..... No the world isn't perfect and I glad that it has caring people such as yourselves and Im sorry I am not in a position to do more but at least I can acknowledge your care and concern..... 15 Aug 2004 @ 21:02 by ov : NCN A&T It sounds like you wished to provoke comments so that this article didn't go uncommented upon like many similiar others that you have posted before this. Did I understand that part correctly? I can appreciate the frustration over lack of comments I get a lot of those myself. I know, I don't publish much new stuff in my blog, but I do contribute a fair bit of information to other people's blog. The reasons that ov hasn't replied to your articles has a lot to do with the fact that they haven't been written by yourself. They are ancient Marxist analysis wrapped up in old News which I've already heard through my favorite radio CBC (and I've just noticed that live streaming off the net has been suspended until after the olympics), or from the news.google.ca site. Plus, I've never seen any solutions proposed by the World Socialists Group except for the implied Animal Farm time for the little guy to have a turn at being the pigs. On the other hand, if you were to extract an abstract of these articles and placed them in an overall strategy they might get more comments. I agree that the "American Problem" needs to be taken seriously, and I am sure that it will be, and that it will most likely be along the same lines as how the "German Problem" was handeled a little more than sixty years ago. But even saying that much I still think that will be taking care of the immediate life threatening symptoms and not dealing with the underlying root causes. Action? What kind of action do you propose, besides buying a van to sleep in when the rent runs out? An armed attack on the White House? As for changing the world, I see the world changing at an accelerating rate with each passing day. I'll venture forth the proposition that you are upset because the world is changing instead of having the apparent security that it did some thirty years ago. Yeah, I see this happening in so many forums as well, mostly those populated by North Americans, and it isn't anything new, it's the 'Tea Party Socialist' that Orson Wells has such contempt for. (I think I got the reference right there, correct me if I'm wrong) However, I am also picking up alternatives to this here in Vancouver since we have more foriegn born here than we do Canadian born. (Not that there isn't also a lot of rich people whose only form of security is their individual wealth) I sense there is a similiar frustration that I felt about four years ago over at Utne cafe, when it started to become clear to me that the four years previous to that had been 'wasted' because they also purported to be agents of social change and turned out to be conscience salve for yuppy sell outs. (That remains my assesment of Utne, and the reason that I don't hold it towards NCN is because I don't have aspirations here beyond my own blog and whatever contacts I might make, and because I haven't much investment here) I think one of the reasons that I'm not upset about all of this is because I don't see any advantage to being in that state, that paralysis of mind, and recently I've been going through a shift to where I think that 'mind' is more of a problem than a solution, and that we should be focused on 'consciousness' instead, and the means of focusing on that is creating the emerging mythology of the collective story of our future. I suppose I've just placed myself in the New Age denial camp with that statement; well whatever, to use a statement which rishi recently used to brush me off. 16 Aug 2004 @ 00:18 by koravya : The means I like this observation that the means of focusing on the consciousness of our so-called New Civilization will be through "creating the emerging mythology of the collective story of our future." It takes a lot of different kinds of minds and a lot of different talents to create a mythology. 16 Aug 2004 @ 01:25 by ov : A comment from John's blog I just posted this comment over in John Ashbaugh's blog, and then came in here to cross post and here he is. Howdy at the cross-roads. So true about the mythology creation. Joseph Campbell didn't think it could be done, but then I think he made that claim before emergence was a popular concept and he might not have known about that little twist. And I don't think he was expecting the internet either. 16 Aug 2004 @ 02:07 by jazzolog : Some of the most satisfied NCN bloggers (and god I hate the unpoetical quality of that term) use the technology of the Network simply to launch their entries out onto the Net. It's easy to copy your articles and pictures onto other sites. There are half a dozen Logs, including Ming's, that do this. One of the best features at NCN is getting pictures onto the Net without having to upload to another private site of your own. Ming has said over and over NCN was not created to do anything except connect people. He says the real shakers are not those of us who hang around the Member Area chatting with each other all day. These also are the people who write comments on each other's Logs. There can be a temptation to be worried about what some feelgood bully will or will not comment at your Log, and what you write and think can be affected this way. There are people with huge control issues at NCN as there are anywhere else. It seems the most realistic way to use NCN to solve the world's problems and work toward spiritual and moral clarity is to not get sucked into the "apathy and trivia" of the open area here. For example, Ming generally is slightly aware of what goes on in here but rarely gets involved unless he is asked directly or something amuses him. Since he runs the place, it's probably the example we all should follow. Let's write for the world and connect ourselves to more functional sites. 16 Aug 2004 @ 02:19 by Ashanti @196.21.43.5 : Missing the point I took down my blog for the very reasons outlined by Sandi and Rishi. Waste of time. I prefer action in the real world. Putting my energy into initiatives that count. I prefer working with people who give a damn. Most here seem to not have actually HEARD what Sandi, and later Rishi, are saying. Rather, speculation as to motives behind their postings (not enough comments, defensive reactions against criticizing the NCN Holy Cow, and so on seem to have resulted). In a world manifesting madness, it IS time to wake up. Discernment is required. It is VERY easy to escape into 60's-style "be-ins" as a means of avoiding confronting the realities of what is happening globally in the world right now. What is happening in the world is mirroring back to us, collective humanity, the state of ourselves. The atrocities are a global manifestation of the spiritual sickness of humanity. Of Us. All is NOT "sweetness and light". Billions of kids are dying in Africa of HIV/AIDs, poverty and war. Does anyone here give a damn? That said, re-programming our minds with Mind Power is a very necessary strategy, and collectively mentally manifesting a better reality is essential - but NOT by missing the step of confronting what is happening NOW, and doing something about it. NOW requires right action. Compassion. Love. Sleeves rolled up dealing with the actual problems, and not escaping and retreating into safe little comfort zones of Illusion that we are doing something that will affect the world and humanity. Sipping cocktails on our mansions built from the blood of humanity. The reality is that we are on the brink of a global tyranny never before experienced on earth. Technological developments have made it possible to subject humanity to a reign of terror unprecedented, with all freedoms being taken away. What shall we do about it? I know, let's all go into rooms, and explore our belly-buttons, shall we? And play the fiddle so it will all be very nice. And occasionally we shall have outbursts of "angst", just so we know we're being authentic. Sandi, I saw your post as a "Lightening Rod" one, a Call to Awakening, a Call to action. I also experience NCN as mostly not being interested in the real world, in international affiars. There are exceptions. The parable of "pearls before swine" springs to mind. Thanks for your post. I at any rate, appreciated it. 16 Aug 2004 @ 02:48 by jazzolog : I Agree With Ashanti The stakes are too high to continue just dancing around a maypole. NCN is not geared for the togetherness of work and community. That doesn't mean someone can't build one here if he/she wants to...and there are a couple; but they seem to operate just for the leader and followerers, and I don't feel any ripple effect reaching out to the site as a whole. There are sites structured for community however, and one of them is Friendster.com. Take a look at their About Friendster page [link] . Here are all the people involved in running the site, who the backers are, and everything you want to know in terms of developing the trust you should feel before getting involved. NCN has nothing like that, and so if you get burned or disappointed in here it's just tough shit...and you, like hundreds of others, move on out---and are quickly forgotten. Friendster probably isn't a site that will connect people to solve the problems of the world either, but then it's not advertising itself to be that. Or take Wikipedia.org, one of the most popular sites on the Internet. It's a free encyclopedia is all, though it does welcome donations. But not just money! Even at Wikipedia there is invitation to community and involvement~~~ [link] "Things you can do." No wonder people can't figure out anything to do at NCN but sit around and chew the fat...as others starve. 16 Aug 2004 @ 03:39 by Jeff @82.66.74.24 : Rishi? "My God, how did humanity ever sink so low as to produce ADULTS as dim witted, uncaring, unaware, and frankly LAME as these?" You can always close the curtains, dose-up on Nembutol & wait for the next appearance of Hale Bop.... 16 Aug 2004 @ 03:48 by Jeff @82.66.74.24 : (I mean.... ..."Rishi and I are fully disgusted with the lack of caringness shown here" I s'pose the "...ADULTS as dim witted, uncaring, unaware, and frankly LAME as these?" is an example of your, duh, enlightened compassion? 16 Aug 2004 @ 04:18 by swanny : Ineffective Caring Can one care to much? I don't know if one can care to much but we can certainly I know care ineffectively. How to CARE Effectively 101 Now when one stubs ones toe its relatively simple isn't it you look at your toe and reach out your hand and give it a loving rub..... Easy Right? NOT The toe first for some reason has been stubbed so it sends its pain signal out and the brain "notices" after some time and decides what to do first it probably "looks" at the toe to see whats going on.... and etc and then it decides what to do next and contacts the arm and say Id like you to go rub my toe but the arm says well Im kind of busy dangling from this cliff hangin on to a branch can it wait and the brain thinks.... hmmmm a dilemna...... so it has to make an "executive" decision well if I let go of the branch I'll fall into the chasm but if I don't rub my toe I'll be in pain..... END Class Caring as I said is not easy but one must care effectively in order to be of useful service..... Now you see a starving child and your first reaction is to reach out and offer help but this starving child is in Nigeria or whatever so your heart reaches out but its only an image on a TV screen or computer and your brain goes hmmmmm So you been short circuited in the caring department..... What to do you can't fly to Nigeria with 5 cents in the bank but there is something you can do...... You can phone your local authorities be politicians, police, hospital etc those people whose "job" such things are..... but is that their job theyll probably say no and hang up or worse put you in the looney bin or jail etc but it is someones job we have people "responsible" for such things its sometimes just a matter of connecting with the right dept which can be frustrating cause youll probably get the run around from there securty and "insulating" systems like secrataries and screeners but the thing is if enough people do this then they start to have to do the job they were "elected" to do and thats how it works not by how much we care but how many people complain...... Often though the bulk of their resources can go to just maintaining there legitamate authority and they spend a lot of time fending off the heart on their sleeve left wing nuts as they call them...... but they really are not doing the job that they said and promised and were elected to do so then what well one as a last kind of "civil" straw can launch "legal action" where it be in municiple civil state federal or international courts It then become a legitimate matter usually involving a lot of money at some point and then there is the problem of enforcement of ones claims etc but this is at least more effective and legitamate then "dumping" on ones peers one can simply say to ones peers lets do this then lets draw up a list of our grievances and submit them enmass to the 'Proper" authorities with a call for action..... and threaten them with a civil suit if they don't comply. Any takers..... Me who me no I don't care..... Im just struggling to put some food on the table myself...... 16 Aug 2004 @ 08:31 by istvan : Rishi, you have spoken I am glad you did. In the past I thought I have made it clear that you have my support in your endawors in somhow trying to wake up the snoring masses of NCN toward some kind of awareness beyond the chattering shows of "feel ne, seee me,ear me" generatiom of self empowering mediocrats. You have not, nor anyone else contacted me about any suggestions, ideas, and at times musings that would even remotely relate to actually creative actions about creating a new you know what. This lack of personal contact i beleive is the reason and cause of NCN and most progressive sites on the WEB that are like the black holes of the cosmos swallowing up anything that is consummable. Perhaps this might be the natural path of creation since the energy might be recicled/purified within. I dont kow along with myriads of scientists hoping to clarify this for the Nobel Prize. There is only one importance worthy of persuing, the path of meditation that lesds to what is called enlightenment. In that state there will be no need to struggle to solve problems of personal, social, global existence for when the mind becomes the servant/tool of the inner so called god/nature all problems/solutions become clear and undisquised. Many promishing developments/ideas of human endavor/creativity have been swallowed up by this black hole called ignorance, misakenly taken self importance/enlollment as a pinnacle of human achivement. Ones inner self, the "nudjing" one will say it is not. When one is not fixed steadfastly upon some path( and there are many) to achive enligtenment there can not be any other results but what we ecperience now and been subjected to throughout history as humans. To an evolving person that is on the way to becoming toward more just an evolved animal the world we inherit indeed appears as a nightmare and chaos (and it is) with no pecivable end, and creates hopeless states of confused mumblings taken as truth. I, you, or any of us are powerless to change things, but if we diligently work together we may be able to create some viable athmospheres for meditating, lovng, living together in communities that are unfortunately still in the dream state. 16 Aug 2004 @ 08:45 by NIght Orchid @64.210.64.122 : Awareness As long as you believe that you are the only ones on a path to consciousness and everyone else is asleep that is all you will be able to see. 16 Aug 2004 @ 10:40 by rishi : Do you dare comment on this Greetings all, I'll comment more specifically on your messages later in the day. In the mean time, I'd like you to take a close look at what this short article is saying. SEE what its' implications are, in terms of the REAL intentions behind the US Government, the US corporate world, and finally, as US citizens who willingly participate in the wholesale takeover and destruction of the world.... Do you dare comment on this and its' implications, or will certain of you keep trying to ignore the whole issue? ************ WHOLISTIC WORLD VISION GLOBAL NETWORKING SERVICE (PLEASE PASS ON!) www.wholisticworldvision.org From: Maireid Sullivan, INTERNET:lyrebirdmedia@optusnet.com.au To: SIMON PETER FULLER, 106160,235 Date: Tue, 10 Aug, 2004, 1:22 RE: LA Times - The Hand-Over That Wasn't: Illegal Orders give the US a Lock on Iraq's Economy While a recent Red Cross report confirms Iraqi civilian deaths at more than 39,000 people, here is the latest war profiteering report from the LA Times, on Allen Roland's Blog for today, with his introduction. M. [link] Iraqi anger towards the U.S. is real and justified and we are in deep trouble ~ regardless of the efforts of the Bush Administration to spin reality and prop up lagging domestic and international support. Antonia Juhasz, L.A.Times, reports on how Bush's illegal orders give the U.S. a lock on Iraq's economy and are the real seed of the growing insurgency ; Excerpt: " A sampling of the most important orders demonstrates the economic imprint left by the Bush administration: Order No. 39 allows for: (1) privatization of Iraq's 200 state-owned enterprises; (2) 100% foreign ownership of Iraqi businesses; (3) "national treatment" which means no preferences for local over foreign businesses; (4) unrestricted, tax-free remittance of all profits and other funds; and (5) 40-year ownership licenses. " Allen L Roland The Hand-Over That Wasn't: Illegal Orders give the US a Lock on Iraq's Economy by Antonia Juhasz [link] 08/06/04 "Los Angeles Times" Officially, the U.S. occupation of Iraq ended on June 28, 2004. But in reality, the United States is still in charge: Not only do 138,000 troops remain to control the streets, but the "100 Orders" of L. Paul Bremer III remain to control the economy. These little noticed orders enacted by Bremer, the now-departed head of the now-defunct Coalition Provisional Authority, go to the heart of Bush administration plans in Iraq. They lock in sweeping advantages to American firms, ensuring long-term U.S. economic advantage while guaranteeing few, if any, benefits to the Iraqi people. The Bremer orders control every aspect of Iraqi life from the use of car horns to the privatization of state-owned enterprises. Order No. 39 alone does no less than "transition [Iraq ] from a centrally planned economy to a market economy" virtually overnight and by U.S. fiat. Although many thought that the "end" of the occupation would also mean the end of the orders, on his last day in Iraq Bremer simply transferred authority for the orders to Prime Minister Iyad Allawi a 30-year exile with close ties to the CIA and British intelligence. Further, the interim constitution of Iraq, written by the U.S.-appointed Iraqi Governing Council, solidifies the orders by making them virtually impossible to overturn. A sampling of the most important orders demonstrates the economic imprint left by the Bush administration: Order No. 39 allows for: (1) privatization of Iraq's 200 state-owned enterprises; (2) 100% foreign ownership of Iraqi businesses; (3) "national treatment" which means no preferences for local over foreign businesses; (4) unrestricted, tax-free remittance of all profits and other funds; and (5) 40-year ownership licenses. Thus, it forbids Iraqis from receiving preference in the reconstruction while allowing foreign corporations Halliburton and Bechtel, for example to buy up Iraqi businesses, do all of the work and send all of their money home. They cannot be required to hire Iraqis or to reinvest their money in the Iraqi economy. They can take out their investments at any time and in any amount. Orders No. 57 and No. 77 ensure the implementation of the orders by placing U.S.-appointed auditors and inspector generals in every government ministry, with five-year terms and with sweeping authority over contracts, programs, employees and regulations. Order No. 17 grants foreign contractors, including private security firms, full immunity from Iraq's laws. Even if they, say, kill someone or cause an environmental disaster, the injured party cannot turn to the Iraqi legal system. Rather, the charges must be brought to U.S. courts. Order No. 40 allows foreign banks to purchase up to 50% of Iraqi banks. Order No. 49 drops the tax rate on corporations from a high of 40% to a flat 15%. The income tax rate is also capped at 15%. Order No. 12 (renewed on Feb. 24) suspends "all tariffs, customs duties, import taxes, licensing fees and similar surcharges for goods entering or leaving Iraq." This led to an immediate and dramatic inflow of cheap foreign consumer products devastating local producers and sellers who were thoroughly unprepared to meet the challenge of their mammoth global competitors. Clearly, the Bremer orders fundamentally altered Iraq's existing laws. For this reason, they are also illegal. Transformation of an occupied country's laws violates the Hague regulations of 1907 (ratified by the United States) and the U.S. Army's Law of Land Warfare. Indeed, in a leaked memo, the British attorney general, Lord Goldsmith, warned Prime Minister Tony Blair that "major structural economic reforms would not be authorized by international law." With few reconstruction projects underway and with Bremer's rules favoring U.S. corporations, there has been little opportunity for Iraqis to go back to work, leaving nearly 2 million unemployed 1 1/2 years after the invasion and, many believe, greatly fueling the resistance. The Bremer orders are immoral and illegal and must be repealed to allow Iraqis to govern their own economic and political future. Antonia Juhasz is a project director at the International Forum on Globalization in San Francisco and a Foreign Policy in Focus scholar 16 Aug 2004 @ 11:55 by swanny : Well... Its seems America has created a new state or perhaps slavestate...... but I suppose it comes down to booty.... The victors write the history.... I suppose this is why the US is suspect or feared around the globe It seems hardly democratic and just..... Yet the US does not as well recognize the International Court How convienent... Does this action and government speak for its people then??? Has this been sanctioned by the electorate.... Is this grounds for impeachment.... But when one is the sole superpower.... Who does one take oneself to task with..... This is somewhat dishonorable action though but war is hell and all is fair in love and war they say.... yet if this is the reflection of the course of the world is taking then it won't be long till this so called "Amercian Dream" is the Global Dream 16 Aug 2004 @ 17:41 by rishi : Caring Effectively... "Caring Effectively" is most of the issue here isn't it, as you said Swanny. You express a very American attitude, when you said; "This is somewhat dishonorable action though but war is hell and all is fair in love and war they say.... yet if this is the reflection of the course of the world is taking then it won't be long till this so called "Amercian Dream" is the Global Dream " What you're talking about is not a dream, it is an outright nightmare. Mind you, I do appreciate your taking the time to comment several times on this line of discussion. I say the same for everyone who has commented, [especially for the lucidity of Ashanti, Jazzolog, Istvan and others..] Swanny, your comments show real interest, at least of some kind, in what is going on. However, a statement such as this perfectly sums up what Spells and I have been pointing out all along. "All is fair in love and war"? You must be kidding right, (after everything that's been said) especially given the fact that WE (the US)STARTED THIS WHOLE DISASTER to begin with? You might as well say, "all's fair in love and war, and since we reserve the right to wage war on anyone, anytime, for any reason we want to make up, then "all's fair no matter what happens". Why is this fair by Amerikkkan reasoning? "Because we're the worlds' sole remaining "superpower", and "might makes right". Am I correct? Yes of course that's the American attitude, and much of Europe takes the same course of "reasoning". What all this really boils down to in other words, is that there's no such thing as civility, morality, spirituality, humanity, truth, justice or "compassion". It's just whoever carries the biggest stick in the international playground, "wins all" and never mind the legality or rightness of anything. THATS' what you call FASCISM my friend, no more, no less. It's the very same thinking used by the Nazis in the 40's, and it's the same methods used by the US government upon world victims, not to mention their own citizens, on an ever increasing basis. You apparently see nothing wrong with this, and in my experience and observation, neither does the majority of the American public. That's what I mean by "sickening", because behind the mainstream apathy is real evil. It's not just uncaringness, it's the very antithesis of caring, of real progress and wise, intelligent living. Go ahead and keep paying your taxes to THAT. You can see these facts played out on the television at any hour on any day, on almost every channel. What is worshipped by this society? Image and egotism, from presidential candidates to your neighbor next door. Never mind the truth, that's just an inconvenience we don't want to bother with. That's what consumerism is all about after all! It's stated objective in every television ad and fashion/gossip magazine is self indulgence and ego enlargement, literally at the cost of ALL ELSE, including all other people and every living thing on this planet! If you want to understand what modern American society is all about, just combine the content of TV soap operas and toilet paper tabloids like "The Enquirer" and "Star" at every grocery checkout stand. It's all about gossip, trivia and DRAMA. Here at NCN it's hard to get any interaction regarding the truth unless you do one of two things....1) be all warm, fuzzy and ego stroking, or 2) apply to egos in a dramatic fashion. SAD but true. What you said in earlier comments about "caring effectively" seems more than just ironic to me. But then I think of the awful bullshit promoted by new age/modern christian thinking, I remember once again that hypocrisy is the norm. Just "talk nice" and never mind MEANING anything REAL, because after all, the last thing the average person wants to do is to get real and be held responsible. Along this line I'd also like to say that never do you or others here mention the Najaf Iraq situation, which was the main part of our post. This is how you express your caring...you ignore the details, miss the point as Ashanti pointed out so well, and then pretend the whole thing doesn't exist. Tomorrow or today you'll go right ahead with your tax paying, TV believing, materialistic, consumeristic lives, and teach young people to do the same, all the while pretending that absolutely nothing is wrong. You'll put a smile on your face with every social pleasantry while greeting the neighbors, all the while being COMPLICIT in what evil corporations and governments do on a daily basis. You'll still buy their products and their propaganda, (such as might makes right, and that the US is about "democracy") the new car or outfit, pay your taxes for more bombs and chemical weapons to be used on others, and then remark about how our "free society" is so wonderful. Hypocrisy to you is a way of life. You don't really care about anything but you'd like others to think you do. How do I know? Because the things you say are always lacking two critical elements...honesty, and a real desire to change the way things ARE through real action. I think that this atttiude is indirectly shown by the lack of real time address of the real world, by the majority here and throughout the world. You know, years ago I used to think that if only the truth were explained well enough and presented to most people thoroughly, that they would SEE IT and then take it to heart. I kept writing articles with a large variety of approaches, using that assumption for many years. But then I realized that for most people it doesn't matter in the least how well you state your case, or in what way you bring it to their attention. What matters to the average modern person is whether or not they WANT to hear what is said, not whether it is TRUE. When most people say they "disagree" with such presentations, they don't mean they have real evidence or logic to debate the matter, they mean it insults their egos. The truth doesn't matter to them because they simply DON'T CARE. Most of the people on NCN simply don't care, and it is the same elsewhere on the internet and in real life. I don't think the problem is a matter of how this forum is designed or what it's stated purposes are. The real problem is that people have degenerated into imbeciles who only want to be indulged. Hardly anyone one cares about finding out what's really going on in the world, or what they can really do about it. They can't be bothered by researching the truth for themselves, or to live out a better way, because they're too busy contributing to that society, (40 hour work week forever until you die or get senile) and all for the sake of buying what is "new and different", and living as "luxuriously" as possible. Why? Because as all the commericals explain, "they're worth it. Sure they are. The evidence about the truth of all modern issues is fully available in books, on the internet, and in the streets of any town anywhere in the world. It's even in your Microsoft Encarta Encyclopedia program. But who cares, right? I mean you've got better things to do than to just sit around and understand what's going on in the world, to know truth and to know yourself. Why bother with research or meditation when you've got the world news presented to you in "complete detail" on the television, in less than 5 minutes? Yes, that was sarcasm. Ov and Swanny, you asked what can be done about these things. Well, our posts alone (Spells and I) have outlined what can be done for over two years here on NCN. We've repeatedly posted numerous articles not only on what's wrong with the world, but also how it can be turned around. Many of these we wrote ourselves..check our log history and see for yourself. We've said real social improvement starts with the individual through a change of values/lifestyle, and then spreads outward into communities and nations. Was anyone paying attention? Very few. There are over 150 articles on my WMS website Library, [link] and at least a third of these describes "what to do" in this regard on a daily basis. That is especially true of my "Survivalists' Guide for the New Millennium" which is a full length book presented at no cost to anyone. It is based on personal experience, not speculation, just as is everything else there. When we say "it starts with a change of values" we mean first, rejecting the current society/status quo as completely bogus, destructive and unnatural. In the place of conscumerism we advocate a return to simple living, natural ways, and a lifelong spiritual focus. Ov, you made good points about the World Socialist Website materials, which we often post. However, you missed the essential fact that they ARE at least doing good work identifying the problems of society very clearly. That's better than the norm here, which is to never discuss what's going on to the point of ACTION, such as the events in iraq. You were right on in the fact that they don't have a clue as to what to really do about it, with their "working class" socialist party agenda. I wrote them about this four times. The first two times I was polite and sincerely admiring of their efforts, yet asked how this agenda could work any better. I received no reply. In the next two letters I pointed out that this idea of a working class government was bogus, because the average working class citizen really has the very same values as Bush/Kerry and the ruling financial elite. Like Bush, they value money and social prestige/power above all else, and in good time would corrupt the entire political system in the same fashion as it is currently corrupted. Theres not one person in a million who wouldn't just love to jump into the very shoes and persona of millionaires and billionaires, which can only imply that they stand for NOTHING. Thats also why theyll FALL FOR ANYTHING without serious question. They would do this because their values of consumeristic egotism and materialistic image above all else are corrupted! I explained this to them, and said that without spiritual values the whole of society is lost, (and I don't mean religious, I mean spiritual). Ashanti has it exactly right by saying; " Missing the point I took down my blog for the very reasons outlined by Sandi and Rishi. Waste of time. I prefer action in the real world. Putting my energy into initiatives that count. I prefer working with people who give a damn. Most here seem to not have actually HEARD what Sandi, and later Rishi, are saying. Rather, speculation as to motives behind their postings (not enough comments, defensive reactions against criticizing the NCN Holy Cow, and so on seem to have resulted). In a world manifesting madness, it IS time to wake up. Discernment is required. It is VERY easy to escape into 60's-style "be-ins" as a means of avoiding confronting the realities of what is happening globally in the world right now. " Yes, most of you missed the point, but that is a head game not a matter of ignorance. You know what we're saying is right, but you're too caught up in egotism and small mindedness to admit it. In other words, you're Euro-Americans who couldn't care less, except for the fact that it pisses you off that we've called a spade a spade. I'd LOVE to debate that point with anyone here...that the majority couldn't care less, they just want to LOOK like they care. In other words, they are far more concerned about their self image then they are people suffering and dying, so that they can have their "American dream" and "high standard of living". The whole world is becoming an American sweat shop, such as all of China, so that you consumers can have your jolly ride. Too bad if you don't like to hear it, that's the way it IS. For those of you who'd like to try to defame our intentions in this and other posts, go right ahead, you are only making fools of yourselves by not presenting any solid reasoning or evidence, to support what you say. Typical, childish Americana. For those who are for real, we invite you for in-depth discussion on what can be done. 16 Aug 2004 @ 19:08 by swanny : Well yes you're right I was being phasicious with the comment of yes alls fair in love and war and up until just a little bit ago that did seem the nature of the beast.... Until because of a program on the CBC I learned the difference between a terrorist, a "freedom fighter" a soldier/ professional and a civilian To a terrorist All is fair in love and war there are no rules of enagement no Geneva Convention No rules of war...... yet to a Freedom Fighter there are rules to war and perhaps love they did not discuss that , but a freedom fighter like any soldier or professional is bound by the code of conduct and engagement of the geneva Convention..... The soldier to is bound by the Geneva convention under the auspices of a political conviction..... and civilian well they are the children in the line of fire who the terrorist has not regard or reason or whatever of or for but the freedom fighter.....well. maybe its time we rewrote the rules of engagement and had one specifically for "assertion" and freedom fighters 16 Aug 2004 @ 21:22 by ov : I'm listening but there are times that I wish you would talke less time to say what you have to say. wrt what is happening over in Iraq with their economy it looks like standard empire building imperialism, similiar to the neo-liberals of a hundred years ago, same as the neo-conservatives of today, same as every conquerer that has gone down in history. That was part of the package deal as soon as Rumsfeld started getting a hard-on for Iraq within days of the 911. Is there anybody here that didn't know that even back then? So it sounds like they are trying to steal a country, which is kind of a silly thought because regardless of what the US says down the road all Iraq has to do is nationalize. The only thing that can really get stolen is that which can be taken out of the country, and that is oil, and the Iraqi are taking care of that quite nicely by blowing up the pipelines. The only people right now that are really getting ripped off are the American taxpayers and I have little sympathy for them. It is a well documented fact that the invasion and occupation of Iraq was illegal whether it is acknowledged by anybody here or not, and this will be dealt with when the war crime trials occur. Any more questions on Iraq? The current situation in Iraq is less of a concern and outrage for me right now then the steady and systematic genocide that is happening throughout Africa, and spreading through parts of Asia. Iraq is a mere attention diverter for these greater atrocities. And there were lot more deaths that occurred in Iraq due to the sanctions before the latest war that were silent and unacknowledged which makes them more tragic than the more visible deaths that are occuring now. The general Club of Rome philosophy that for the sake of carrying capacity we need to reduce the world population by two to four billion people rates higher on my moral outrage scale, and particular because not even the radical left seems to be addresing this issue. "You know, years ago I used to think that if only the truth were explained well enough and presented to most people thoroughly, that they would SEE IT and then take it to heart." rishi Yup, I used to think that also. Check out this article Carl Schmitt's 'The Concept of the Political' for a bit of an insight into this. To add a few thoughts of my own to this, I'll say that all these calls to 'action' are a plea to inact a political solution, which is a power solution, which is only excaberating the problem. Not only that but it is increasing frustration in those that will be best able to clean up the mess and create the new, and in a nihilistic spiral taking them out of future action. The fascists are in power and have told us what they intend to do, and they are doing exactly that, and there is no way that we can force them not to. The fascists are in the process of killing our social order, but then the NCN site is not interested in preventing the death of the old society, but is focusing on the creation of the next society. Which is not the same thing as doing nothing. (Which isn't to say that I don't think there isn't a lot of people on this site that are hoping that we can ride this out and return to the way things used to be) Swanny, it sounds like you are talking about "The Lesser Evil" series of programs that were on Wednesday nights. Very enlightening program. The "In Search of Security" a ten part series on Tuesday nights is also very good; lots of good material wrt community building that I'm going to be bringing up in anti-poverty coalition meetings that have been happening locally. Yup, the key point I've been getting from those is that security lies in community networks rather than in money. Signing off, since this is already probably too long winded. 17 Aug 2004 @ 01:48 by ashanti @196.21.43.5 : Truth It is so good to hear the clear Truth still being broadcast. I watched the same thing happen when I was growing up in apartheid South Africa. White South Africans did NOT want to look, confront, acknowledge. DeNile DeNile, DeNile. The behavioral parallels and patterns between white South Africans who refused to see that there was anything wrong with Apartheid, and modern-day Americans and others suckling at the teat of the Anglo-American Order, who refuse to see that there is anything wrong with the American system of Apartheid is staggering. If I had the time, and less pressing issues to attend to, I would write a book on it. 6 Sep 2005 @ 03:29 by bhattathiri @202.83.37.10 : Management website is informative and excellant. Article by M.P. Bhattathiri, Retired Chief Technical Examiner , Govt. of Kerala, it may be published in your website and magazine after editing if necessary. Bhagavad Gita and Management by M.P. Bhattathiri -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mind is very restless, forceful and strong, O Krishna, it is more difficult to control the mind than to control the wind ~ Arjuna to Sri Krishna Introduction One of the greatest contributions of India to the world is Holy Gita which is considered to be the first revelations from God. The managent lessons in this holy book were brought in to light of the world by divine Maharshi Mahesh Yogi and the spiritual philosophy by Sr. Srila Prabhupada Swami and humanism by Sai Baba. Maharishi calls the Bhagavad-Gita the essence of Vedic Literature and a complete guide to practical life. It provides all that is needed to raise the consciousness of man to the highest possible level. Maharishi reveals the deep, universal truths of life that speak to the needs and aspirations of everyone. Arjuna got mentally depressed when he saw his relatives with whom he has to fight.( Mental health has become a major international public health concern now). Many Indian leaders got inspiration and motivation from Bhagavad Gita to fight for the motherland freedom. "When doubts haunt me, when disappointments stare me in the face, and I see not one ray of hope on the horizon, I turn to Bhagavad-gita and find a verse to comfort me; and I immediately begin to smile in the midst of overwhelming sorrow. Those who meditate on the Gita will derive fresh joy and new meanings from it every day." Mahatma Gandhi "The Bhagavad-Gita deals essentially with the spiritual foundation of human existence. It is a call of action to meet the obligations and duties of life; yet keeping in view the spiritual nature and grander purpose of the universe." Prime Minister Nehru "The Gita was preached as a preparatory lesson for living worldly life with an eye to Release, Nirvana. My last prayer to everyone, therefore, is that one should not fail to thoroughly understand this ancient science of worldly life as early as possible in ones life. Bhagavad Gita give great inspiration for freedom fighting." --- Lokmanya Tilak To motivate Arjuna the Bhagavad Gita is preached in the battle field Kurukshetra by Lord Krishna to Arjuna as a counseling to do his duty while multitudes of men stood by waiting . It has got all the management tactics to achieve the mental equilibrium and to overcome any crisis situation. The Bhagavad Gita can be experienced as a powerful catalyst for transformation. Bhagavad gita means song of the Spirit, song of the Lord. The Holy Gita has become a secret driving force behind the unfoldment of one's life. In the days of doubt this divine book will support all spiritual search.This divine book will contribute to self reflection, finer feeling and deepen one's inner process. Then life in the world can become a real educationdynamic, full and joyfulno matter what the circumstance. May the wisdom of loving consciousness ever guide us on our journey. What makes the Holy Gita a practical psychology of transformation is that it offers us the tools to connect with our deepest intangible essence and we must learn to participate in the battle of life with right knowledge. The Holy Gita is the essence of the Vedas, Upanishads. It is a universal scripture applicable to people of all temperaments and for all times. It is a book with sublime thoughts and practical instructions on Yoga, Devotion, Vedanta and Action. It is profound in thought and sublime in heights of vision. It brings peace and solace to souls that are afflicted by the three fires of mortal existence, namely, afflictions caused by ones own body (disease etc), those caused by beings around one (e.g. wild animals, snakes etc.), and those caused by the gods (natural disasters, earth-quakes, floods etc). Mind can be one's friend or enemy. Mind is the cause for both bondage and liberation. The word mind is derived from man to think and the word man derived from manu (sanskrit word for man). "The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone's heart, O Arjuna, and is directing the wanderings of all living entities, who are seated as on a machine, made of the material energy." There is no theory to be internalized and applied in this psychology. Ancient practices spontaneously induce what each person needs as the individual and the universal coincide. The work proceeds through intellectual knowledge of the playing field(jnana yoga), emotional devotion to the ideal(bhakti yoga) and right action that includes both feeling and knowledge(karma yoga). With ongoing purification we approach wisdom. The Bhagavad Gita is a message addressed to each and every human individual to help him or her to solve the vexing problem of overcoming the present and progressing towards a bright future. Within its eighteen chapters is revealed a human drama. This is the experience of everyone in this world, the drama of the ascent of man from a state of utter dejection, sorrow and total breakdown and hopelessness to a state of perfect understanding, clarity, renewed strength and triumph. Introduction Management has become a part and parcel of everyday life, be it at home, in the office or factory and in Government. In all organizations, where a group of human beings assemble for a common purpose, management principles come into play through the management of resources, finance and planning, priorities, policies and practice. Management is a systematic way of carrying out activities in any field of human effort. Its task is to make people capable of joint performance, to make their weaknesses irrelevant, says the Management Guru Peter Drucker. It creates harmony in working together - equilibrium in thoughts and actions, goals and achievements, plans and performance, products and markets. It resolves situations of scarcity, be they in the physical, technical or human fields, through maximum utilization with the minimum available processes to achieve the goal. Lack of management causes disorder, confusion, wastage, delay, destruction and even depression. Managing men, money and materials in the best possible way, according to circumstances and environment, is the most important and essential factor for a successful management. Management guidelines from the Bhagavad Gita There is an important distinction between effectiveness and efficiency in managing. · Effectiveness is doing the right things. · Efficiency is doing things right. The general principles of effective management can be applied in every field, the differences being more in application than in principle. The Manager's functions can be summed up as: · Forming a vision · Planning the strategy to realise the vision. · Cultivating the art of leadership. · Establishing institutional excellence. · Building an innovative organisation. · Developing human resources. · Building teams and teamwork. · Delegation, motivation, and communication. · Reviewing performance and taking corrective steps when called for. Thus, management is a process of aligning people and getting them committed to work for a common goal to the maximum social benefit - in search of excellence. The critical question in all managers minds is how to be effective in their job. The answer to this fundamental question is found in the Bhagavad Gita, which repeatedly proclaims that you must try to manage yourself. The reason is that unless a manager reaches a level of excellence and effectiveness, he or she will be merely a face in the crowd. Old truths in a new context The Bhagavad Gita, written thousands of years ago, enlightens us on all managerial techniques leading us towards a harmonious and blissful state of affairs in place of the conflict, tensions, poor productivity, absence of motivation and so on, common in most of Indian enterprises today and probably in enterprises in many other countries. The modern (Western) management concepts of vision, leadership, motivation, excellence in work, achieving goals, giving work meaning, decision making and planning, are all discussed in the Bhagavad Gita. There is one major difference. While Western management thought too often deals with problems at material, external and peripheral levels, the Bhagavad Gita tackles the issues from the grass roots level of human thinking. Once the basic thinking of man is improved, it will automatically enhance the quality of his actions and their results. The management philosophy emanating from the West, is based on the lure of materialism and on a perennial thirst for profit, irrespective of the quality of the means adopted to achieve that goal. This phenomenon has its source in the abundant wealth of the West and so 'management by materialism' has caught the fancy of all the countries the world over, India being no exception to this trend. My country, India, has been in the forefront in importing these ideas mainly because of its centuries old indoctrination by colonial rulers, which has inculcated in us a feeling that anything Western is good and anything Indian is inferior. The result is that, while huge funds have been invested in building temples of modem management education, no perceptible changes are visible in the improvement of the general quality of life - although the standards of living of a few has gone up. The same old struggles in almost all sectors of the economy, criminalisation of institutions, social violence, exploitation and other vices are seen deep in the body politic. The source of the problem The reasons for this sorry state of affairs are not far to seek. The Western idea of management centres on making the worker (and the manager) more efficient and more productive. Companies offer workers more to work more, produce more, sell more and to stick to the organisation without looking for alternatives. The sole aim of extracting better and more work from the worker is to improve the bottom-line of the enterprise. The worker has become a hireable commodity, which can be used, replaced and discarded at will. Thus, workers have been reduced to the state of a mercantile product. In such a state, it should come as no surprise to us that workers start using strikes (gheraos) sit-ins, (dharnas) go-slows, work-to-rule etc. to get maximum benefit for themselves from the organisations. Society-at-large is damaged. Thus we reach a situation in which management and workers become separate and contradictory entities with conflicting interests. There is no common goal or understanding. This, predictably, leads to suspicion, friction, disillusion and mistrust, with managers and workers at cross purposes. The absence of human values and erosion of human touch in the organisational structure has resulted in a crisis of confidence. Western management philosophy may have created prosperity for some people some of the time at least - but it has failed in the aim of ensuring betterment of individual life and social welfare. It has remained by and large a soulless edifice and an oasis of plenty for a few in the midst of poor quality of life for many. Hence, there is an urgent need to re-examine prevailing management disciplines - their objectives, scope and content. Management should be redefined to underline the development of the worker as a person, as a human being, and not as a mere wage-earner. With this changed perspective, management can become an instrument in the process of social, and indeed national, development. Now let us re-examine some of the modern management concepts in the light of the Bhagavad Gita which is a primer of management-by-values. Utilisation of available resources The first lesson of management science is to choose wisely and utilise scarce resources optimally. During the curtain raiser before the Mahabharata War, Duryodhana chose Sri Krishna's large army for his help while Arjuna selected Sri Krishna's wisdom for his support. This episode gives us a clue as to the nature of the effective manager - the former chose numbers, the latter, wisdom. Attitudes towards work Three stone-cutters were engaged in erecting a temple. An HRD Consultant asked them what they were doing. The response of the three workers to this innocent-looking question is illuminating. · 'I am a poor man. I have to maintain my family. I am making a living here,' said the first stone-cutter with a dejected face. · 'Well, I work because I want to show that I am the best stone-cutter in the country,' said the second one with a sense of pride. · 'Oh, I want to build the most beautiful temple in the country,' said the third one with a visionary gleam. Their jobs were identical but their perspectives were different. What the Gita tells us is to develop the visionary perspective in the work we do. It tells us to develop a sense of larger vision in our work for the common good. Work commitment A popular verse of the Gita advises detachment from the fruits or results of actions performed in the course of one's duty. Being dedicated work has to mean working for the sake of work, generating excellence for its own sake. If we are always calculating the date of promotion or the rate of commission before putting in our efforts, then such work is not detached. It is not generating excellence for its own sake but working only for the extrinsic reward that may (or may not) result. Working only with an eye to the anticipated benefits, means that the quality of performance of the current job or duty suffers - through mental agitation of anxiety for the future. In fact, the way the world works means that events do not always respond positively to our calculations and hence expected fruits may not always be forthcoming. So, the Gita tells us not to mortgage present commitment to an uncertain future. Some people might argue that not seeking the business result of work and actions, makes one unaccountable. In fact, the Bhagavad Gita is full of advice on the theory of cause and effect, making the doer responsible for the consequences of his deeds. While advising detachment from the avarice of selfish gains in discharging one's accepted duty, the Gita does not absolve anybody of the consequences arising from discharge of his or her responsibilities. Thus the best means of effective performance management is the work itself. Attaining this state of mind (called nishkama karma) is the right attitude to work because it prevents the ego, the mind, from dissipation of attention through speculation on future gains or losses. Motivation self and self-transcendence It has been presumed for many years that satisfying lower order needs of workers - adequate food, clothing and shelter, etc. are key factors in motivation. However, it is a common experience that the dissatisfaction of the clerk and of the Director is identical - only their scales and composition vary. It should be true that once the lower-order needs are more than satisfied, the Director should have little problem in optimising his contribution to the organisation and society. But more often than not, it does not happen like that. (The eagle soars high but keeps its eyes firmly fixed on the dead animal below.) On the contrary, a lowly paid schoolteacher, or a self-employed artisan, may well demonstrate higher levels of self-actualisation despite poorer satisfaction of their lower-order needs. This situation is explained by the theory of self-transcendence propounded in the Gita. Self-transcendence involves renouncing egoism, putting others before oneself, emphasising team work, dignity, co-operation, harmony and trust and, indeed potentially sacrificing lower needs for higher goals, the opposite of Maslow. Work must be done with detachment. It is the ego that spoils work and the ego is the centrepiece of most theories of motivation. We need not merely a theory of motivation but a theory of inspiration. The Great Indian poet, Rabindranath Tagore (1861-1941, known as "Gurudev") says working for love is freedom in action. A concept which is described as disinterested work" in the Gita where Sri Krishna says, He who shares the wealth generated only after serving the people, through work done as a sacrifice for them, is freed from all sins. On the contrary those who earn wealth only for themselves, eat sins that lead to frustration and failure. Disinterested work finds expression in devotion, surrender and equipoise. The former two are psychological while the third is determination to keep the mind free of the dualistic (usually taken to mean "materialistic") pulls of daily experiences. Detached involvement in work is the key to mental equanimity or the state of nirdwanda. This attitude leads to a stage where the worker begins to feel the presence of the Supreme Intelligence guiding the embodied individual intelligence. Such de-personified intelligence is best suited for those who sincerely believe in the supremacy of organisational goals as compared to narrow personal success and achievement. Work culture An effective work culture is about vigorous and arduous efforts in pursuit of given or chosen tasks. Sri Krishna elaborates on two types of work culture daivi sampat or divine work culture and asuri sampat or demonic work culture. · Daivi work culture - involves fearlessness, purity, self-control, sacrifice, straightforwardness, self-denial, calmness, absence of fault-finding, absence of greed, gentleness, modesty, absence of envy and pride. · Asuri work culture - involves egoism, delusion, personal desires, improper performance, work not oriented towards service. Mere work ethic is not enough. The hardened criminal exhibits an excellent work ethic. What is needed is a work ethic conditioned by ethics in work. It is in this light that the counsel, yogah karmasu kausalam should be understood. Kausalam means skill or technique of work which is an indispensable component of a work ethic. Yogah is defined in the Gita itself as samatvam yogah uchyate meaning an unchanging equipoise of mind (detachment.) Tilak tells us that acting with an equable mind is Yoga. (Bal Gangadhar Tilak, 1856-1920, the precursor of Gandhiji, hailed by the people of India as "Lokmanya," probably the most learned among the country's political leaders. For a description of the meanings of the word "Yoga", see foot of this page.) By making the equable mind the bed-rock of all actions, the Gita evolved the goal of unification of work ethic with ethics in work, for without ethical process no mind can attain an equipoise. The guru, Adi Sankara (born circa 800 AD), says that the skill necessary in the performance of one's duty is that of maintaining an evenness of mind in face of success and failure. The calm mind in the face of failure will lead to deeper introspection and see clearly where the process went wrong so that corrective steps could be taken to avoid shortcomings in future. The principle of reducing our attachment to personal gains from the work done is the Gitas prescription for attaining equanimity. It has been held that this principle leads to lack of incentive for effort, striking at the very root of work ethic. To the contrary, concentration on the task for its own sake leads to the achievement of excellence and indeed to the true mental happiness of the worker. Thus, while commonplace theories of motivation may be said to lead us to the bondage or extrinsic rewards, the Gitas principle leads us to the intrinsic rewards of mental, and indeed moral, satisfaction. Work results The Gita further explains the theory of detachment from the extrinsic rewards of work in saying: · If the result of sincere effort is a success, the entire credit should not be appropriated by the doer alone. · If the result of sincere effort is a failure, then too the entire blame does not accrue to the doer. The former attitude mollifies arrogance and conceit while the latter prevents excessive despondency, de-motivation and self-pity. Thus both these dispositions safeguard the doer against psychological vulnerability, the cause of the modem managers' companions of diabetes, high blood pressure and ulcers. Assimilation of the ideas of the Gita leads us to the wider spectrum of lokasamgraha (general welfare) but there is also another dimension to the work ethic - if the karmayoga (service) is blended with bhaktiyoga (devotion), then the work itself becomes worship, a sevayoga" (service for its own sake.) Along with bhakti yoga as a means of liberation, the Gita espouses the doctrine of nishkamya karma or pure action untainted by hankering after the fruits resulting from that action. Modern scientists have now understood the intuitive wisdom of that action in a new light. Scientists at the US National Institute of Mental Health in Bethesda, found that laboratory monkeys that started out as procrastinators, became efficient workers after they received brain injections that suppressed a gene linked to their ability to anticipate a reward.The scientists reported that the work ethic of rhesus macaques wasn't all that different from that of many people: "If the reward is not immediate, you procrastinate", Dr Richmond told LA Times. (This may sound a peculiarly religious idea but it has a wider application. It could be taken to mean doing something because it is worthwhile, to serve others, to make the world a better place ed.) Manager's mental health Sound mental health is the very goal of any human activity - more so management. Sound mental health is that state of mind which can maintain a calm, positive poise, or regain it when unsettled, in the midst of all the external vagaries of work life and social existence. Internal constancy and peace are the pre-requisites for a healthy stress-free mind. Some of the impediments to sound mental health are: · Greed - for power, position, prestige and money. · Envy - regarding others' achievements, success, rewards. · Egotism - about one's own accomplishments. · Suspicion, anger and frustration. · Anguish through comparisons. The driving forces in today's businesses are speed and competition. There is a distinct danger that these forces cause erosion of the moral fibre, that in seeking the end, one permits oneself immoral means - tax evasion, illegitimate financial holdings, being economical with the truth, deliberate oversight in the audit, too-clever financial reporting and so on. This phenomenon may be called as yayati syndrome. In the book, the Mahabharata, we come across a king by the name of Yayati who, in order to revel in the endless enjoyment of flesh exchanged his old age with the youth of his obliging youngest son for a thousand years. However, he found the pursuit of sensual enjoyments ultimately unsatisfying and came back to his son pleading him to take back his youth. This yayati syndrome shows the conflict between externally directed acquisitions (extrinsic motivation) and inner value and conscience (intrinsic motivation.) Management needs those who practise what they preach Whatever the excellent and best ones do, the commoners follow, says Sri Krishna in the Gita. The visionary leader must be a missionary, extremely practical, intensively dynamic and capable of translating dreams into reality. This dynamism and strength of a true leader flows from an inspired and spontaneous motivation to help others. "I am the strength of those who are devoid of personal desire and attachment. O Arjuna, I am the legitimate desire in those, who are not opposed to righteousness," says Sri Krishna in the 10th Chapter of the Gita. In conclusion The despondency of Arjuna in the first chapter of the Gita is typically human. Sri Krishna, by sheer power of his inspiring words, changes Arjuna's mind from a state of inertia to one of righteous action, from the state of what the French philosophers call anomie or even alienation, to a state of self-confidence in the ultimate victory of dharma (ethical action.) When Arjuna got over his despondency and stood ready to fight, Sri Krishna reminded him of the purpose of his new-found spirit of intense action - not for his own benefit, not for satisfying his own greed and desire, but for the good of many, with faith in the ultimate victory of ethics over unethical actions and of truth over untruth. Sri Krishna's advice with regard to temporary failures is, No doer of good ever ends in misery. Every action should produce results. Good action produces good results and evil begets nothing but evil. Therefore, always act well and be rewarded. My purport is not to suggest discarding of the Western model of efficiency, dynamism and striving for excellence but to tune these ideals to India's holistic attitude of lokasangraha - for the welfare of many, for the good of many. There is indeed a moral dimension to business life. What we do in business is no different, in this regard, to what we do in our personal lives. The means do not justify the ends. Pursuit of results for their own sake, is ultimately self-defeating. (Profit, said Matsushita-san in another tradition, is the reward of correct behaviour. ed.) A note on the word "yoga". Yoga has two different meanings - a general meaning and a technical meaning. The general meaning is the joining together or union of any two or more things. The technical meaning is a state of stability and peace and the means or practices which lead to that state." The Bhagavad Gita uses the word with both meanings. M.P.Bhattathiri. Let us go through what scholars say about Holy Gita. "No work in all Indian literature is more quoted, because none is better loved, in the West, than the Bhagavad-gita. Translation of such a work demands not only knowledge of Sanskrit, but an inward sympathy with the theme and a verbal artistry. For the poem is a symphony in which God is seen in all things. . . . The Swami does a real service for students by investing the beloved Indian epic with fresh meaning. Whatever our outlook may be, we should all be grateful for the labor that has lead to this illuminating work." Dr. Geddes MacGregor, Emeritus Distinguished Professor of Philosophy University of Southern California "The Gita can be seen as the main literary support for the great religious civilization of India, the oldest surviving culture in the world. The present translation and commentary is another manifestation of the permanent living importance of the Gita." Thomas Merton, Theologian "I am most impressed with A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada's scholarly and authoritative edition of Bhagavad-gita. It is a most valuable work for the scholar as well as the layman and is of great utility as a reference book as well as a textbook. I promptly recommend this edition to my students. It is a beautifully done book." Dr. Samuel D. Atkins Professor of Sanskrit, Princeton University "As a successor in direct line from Caitanya, the author of Bhagavad-gita As It Is is entitled, according to Indian custom, to the majestic title of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. The great interest that his reading of the Bhagavad-gita holds for us is that it offers us an authorized interpretation according to the principles of the Caitanya tradition." Olivier Lacombe Professor of Sanskrit and Indology, Sorbonne University, Paris "I have had the opportunity of examining several volumes published by the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust and have found them to be of excellent quality and of great value for use in college classes on Indian religions. This is particularly true of the BBT edition and translation of the Bhagavad-gita." Dr. Frederick B. Underwood Professor of Religion, Columbia University "If truth is what works, as Pierce and the pragmatists insist, there must be a kind of truth in the Bhagavad-gita As It Is, since those who follow its teachings display a joyous serenity usually missing in the bleak and strident lives of contemporary people." Dr. Elwin H. Powell Professor of Sociology State University of New York, Buffalo "There is little question that this edition is one of the best books available on the Gita and devotion. Prabhupada's translation is an ideal blend of literal accuracy and religious insight." Dr. Thomas J. Hopkins Professor of Religion, Franklin and Marshall College "The Bhagavad-gita, one of the great spiritual texts, is not as yet a common part of our cultural milieu. This is probably less because it is alien per se than because we have lacked just the kind of close interpretative commentary upon it that Swami Bhaktivedanta has here provided, a commentary written from not only a scholar's but a practitioner's, a dedicated lifelong devotee's point of view." Denise Levertov, Poet "The increasing numbers of Western readers interested in classical Vedic thought have been done a service by Swami Bhaktivedanta. By bringing us a new and living interpretation of a text already known to many, he has increased our understanding manyfold." Dr. Edward C Dimock, Jr. Department of South Asian Languages and Civilization University of Chicago "The scholarly world is again indebted to A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Although Bhagavad-gita has been translated many times, Prabhupada adds a translation of singular importance with his commentary." Dr. J. Stillson Judah, Professor of the History of Religions and Director of Libraries Graduate Theological Union, Berkeley, California "Srila Prabhupada's edition thus fills a sensitive gap in France, where many hope to become familiar with traditional Indian thought, beyond the commercial East-West hodgepodge that has arisen since the time Europeans first penetrated India. "Whether the reader be an adept of Indian spiritualism or not, a reading of the Bhagavad-gita As It Is will be extremely profitable. For many this will be the first contact with the true India, the ancient India, the eternal India." Francois Chenique, Professor of Religious Sciences Institute of Political Studies, Paris, France "It was as if an empire spoke to us, nothing small or unworthy, but large, serene, consistent, the voice of an old intelligence which in another age and climate had pondered and thus disposed of the same questions which exercise us" Emerson's reaction to the Gita "As a native of India now living in the West, it has given me much grief to see so many of my fellow countrymen coming to the West in the role of gurus and spiritual leaders. For this reason, I am very excited to see the publication of Bhagavad-gita As It Is by Sri A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. It will help to stop the terrible cheating of false and unauthorized 'gurus' and 'yogis' and will give an opportunity to all people to understand the actual meaning of Oriental culture." Dr. Kailash Vajpeye, Director of Indian Studies Center for Oriental Studies, The University of Mexico "The Gita is one of the clearest and most comprehensive one, of the summaries and systematic spiritual statements of the perennial philosophy ever to have been done" __________________________________________Aldous Huxley "It is a deeply felt, powerfully conceived and beautifully explained work. I don't know whether to praise more this translation of the Bhagavad-gita, its daring method of explanation, or the endless fertility of its ideas. I have never seen any other work on the Gita with such an important voice and style. . . . It will occupy a significant place in the intellectual and ethical life of modern man for a long time to come." Dr. Shaligram Shukla Professor of Linguistics, Georgetown University "I can say that in the Bhagavad-gita As It Is I have found explanations and answers to questions I had always posed regarding the interpretations of this sacred work, whose spiritual discipline I greatly admire. If the aesceticism and ideal of the apostles which form the message of the Bhagavad-gita As It Is were more widespread and more respected, the world in which we live would be transformed into a better, more fraternal place." Dr. Paul Lesourd, Author Professeur Honoraire, Catholic University of Paris "When I read the Bhagavad-Gita and reflect about how God created this universe everything else seems so superfluous." Albert Einstein "In the morning I bathe my intellect in the stupendous and cosmogonal philosophy of the Bhagavad-gita, in comparison with which our modern world and its literature seem puny and trivial." Henry David Thoreau "The Bhagavad-Gita has a profound influence on the spirit of mankind by its devotion to God which is manifested by actions." Dr. Albert Schweitzer "The Bhagavad-Gita is a true scripture of the human race a living creation rather than a book, with a new message for every age and a new meaning for every civilization." Sri Aurobindo "The idea that man is like unto an inverted tree seems to have been current in by gone ages. The link with Vedic conceptions is provided by Plato in his Timaeus in which it states 'behold we are not an earthly but a heavenly plant.' This correlation can be discerned by what Krishna expresses in chapter 15 of Bhagavad-Gita." Carl Jung "The marvel of the Bhagavad-Gita is its truly beautiful revelation of life's wisdom which enables philosophy to blossom into religion." Herman Hesse "I owed a magnificent day to the Bhagavad-gita. It was the first of books; it was as if an empire spoke to us, nothing small or unworthy, but large, serene, consistent, the voice of an old intelligence which in another age and climate had pondered and thus disposed of the same questions which exercise us." Ralph Waldo Emerson "In order to approach a creation as sublime as the Bhagavad-Gita with full understanding it is necessary to attune our soul to it." Rudolph Steiner "From a clear knowledge of the Bhagavad-Gita all the goals of human existence become fulfilled. Bhagavad-Gita is the manifest quintessence of all the teachings of the Vedic scriptures." Adi Shankara "The Bhagavad-Gita is the most systematic statement of spiritual evolution of endowing value to mankind. It is one of the most clear and comprehensive summaries of perennial philosophy ever revealed; hence its enduring value is subject not only to India but to all of humanity." Aldous Huxley "The Bhagavad-Gita was spoken by Lord Krishna to reveal the science of devotion to God which is the essence of all spiritual knowledge. The Supreme Lord Krishna's primary purpose for descending and incarnating is relieve the world of any demoniac and negative, undesirable influences that are opposed to spiritual development, yet simultaneously it is His incomparable intention to be perpetually within reach of all humanity." Ramanuja The Bhagavad-Gita is not seperate from the Vaishnava philosophy and the Srimad Bhagavatam fully reveals the true import of this doctrine which is transmigation of the soul. On perusal of the first chapter of Bhagavad-Gita one may think that they are advised to engage in warfare. When the second chapter has been read it can be clearly understood that knowledge and the soul is the ultimate goal to be attained. On studying the third chapter it is apparent that acts of righteousness are also of high priority. If we continue and patiently take the time to complete the Bhagavad-Gita and try to ascertain the truth of its closing chapter we can see that the ultimate conclusion is to relinquish all the conceptualized ideas of religion which we possess and fully surrender directly unto the Supreme Lord. Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati "The Mahabharata has all the essential ingredients necessary to evolve and protect humanity and that within it the Bhagavad-Gita is the epitome of the Mahabharata just as ghee is the essence of milk and pollen is the essence of flowers." Madhvacarya Yoga has two different meanings - a general meaning and a technical meaning. The general meaning is the joining together or union of any two or more things. The technical meaning is a state of stability and peace and the means or practices which lead to that state." The Bhagavad Gita uses the word with both meanings. Lord Krishna is real Yogi who can maintain a peaceful mind in the midst of any crisis." Mata Amritanandamayi Devi. Karma, Bhakti, and Jnana are but three paths to this end. And common to all the three is renunciation. Renounce the desires, even of going to heaven, for every desire related with body and mind creates bondage. Our focus of action is neither to save the humanity nor to engage in social reforms, not to seek personal gains, but to realize the indwelling Self itself. Swami Vivekananda (England, London; 1895-96 ) "Science describes the structures and pro |
15 Aug 2004 @ 12:31, by Sandi Hunter