Articles from theworldofliving:stone at www.livingstonemusic.net 2007-06-01T18:08:12Z User 138 livingstone@livingstonemusic.net http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v138/ OrgSpace NewsLog IG Livingstone

...an end, ...to pretence. ...to servile virtues. ...to prudery and shame. ...to superstitious paranoia. ...to restriction and inhibition. ...to wanting more than what we need. ...to blaming others for mistakes we make. ...to authority that is not based on honesty.

...an end,
...to pretence.
...to servile virtues.
...to prudery and shame.
...to superstitious paranoia.
...to restriction and inhibition.
...to wanting more than what we need.
...to blaming others for mistakes we make.
...to authority that is not based on honesty.
]]> http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v138/__show_article/_a000138-000017.htm 2007-06-01T18:08:12Z 2007-06-01T18:08:12Z

an extract from article by livingstonemusic.net entitled 'The Godmen - In my Father's House there are many Mansions....' His father is God and his mother is a mortal virgin. He is born in a cave or humble cow shed on the 25th of December before three shepherds. He offers his followers the cha...

an extract from article by livingstonemusic.net entitled 'The Godmen - In my Father's House there are many Mansions....'

His father is God and his mother is a mortal virgin. He is born in a cave or humble cow shed on the 25th of December before three shepherds. He offers his followers the chance to be born again through the rites of baptism. He miraculously turns water into wine at a marriage ceremony. He rides triumphantly into town on a donkey while people wave palm leaves to honour him. He dies at Easter time as a sacrifice for the sins of the world. After his death he descends to Hell, then on the third day he rises from the dead and ascends to heaven in glory. His followers await his return as the judge during the Last Days. His death and resurrection are celebrated by a ritual meal of bread and wine, which symbolize his body and blood. He ascended into heaven where he sits at the right hand of the Father judging the world.

Every culture, religion or mystical teaching seems to revolve around the concept of a Saviour-figure who will return to put the world to right. Why then is there so much reluctance to respect other versions of the same story? More to the point, why do we kill each other simply because we have different godmen? We emanate from one source. From the same 'God'. Therefore we are inextricably and divinely linked. We are ONE.
]]> http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v138/__show_article/_a000138-000016.htm 2003-10-26T13:48:40Z 2003-10-26T14:01:59Z

an extract from article by livingstonemusic.net entitled 'dedication and NO excuses'. Regardless of what the world around thinks of you, whether you be a Holy Man or a Roadsweeper, you will have to answer to your own Self. We all should consider the duty (and need) to Honour that One, Great, Et...

an extract from article by livingstonemusic.net entitled 'dedication and NO excuses'.

Regardless of what the world around thinks of you, whether you be a Holy Man or a Roadsweeper, you will have to answer to your own Self. We all should consider the duty (and need) to Honour that One, Great, Eternal Being who is the Master of your world - YOU.
By blaming the world around you for your 'misfortunes' severely sidesteps the main reason for what you have so far become. Each incident in our lives is a working within a complex and infinite universe. The universe that is you. Not me. Not anyone else.]]> http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v138/__show_article/_a000138-000015.htm 2003-10-26T05:00:14Z 2003-10-26T08:13:53Z

Some word definitions - 01 Fascism A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. A political philosophy...

Some word definitions -
an article from livingstonemusic.net.


00 Terrorism
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

01 Fascism
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
Oppressive, dictatorial control.

02 Dictator
An absolute ruler.
A tyrant; a despot.
An ancient Roman magistrate appointed temporarily to deal with an immediate crisis or emergency.
One who dictates:

03 Liberate
To set free, as from oppression, confinement, or foreign control.
Chemistry - To release (a gas, for example) from combination.
Slang - To obtain by illegal or stealthy action: tried to sell appliances that were liberated during the riot.

07 Politic
Using or marked by prudence, expedience, and shrewdness; artful.
Using, displaying, or proceeding from policy; judicious: a politic decision.
Crafty; cunning.

04 Crusade
Any of the military expeditions undertaken by European Christians in the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries to recover the Holy Land from the Muslims.
A holy war undertaken with papal sanction.
A vigorous concerted movement for a cause or against an abuse.

05 Impose
To establish or apply as compulsory; levy: impose a tax.
To apply or make prevail by or as if by authority: impose a peace settlement. See Synonyms at dictate.
To obtrude or force (oneself, for example) on another or others.
Printing To arrange (type or plates) on an imposing stone.
To offer or circulate fraudulently; pass off: imposed a fraud on consumers.
To take unfair advantage.

06 Order
A condition of logical or comprehensible arrangement among the separate elements of a group.

A condition of methodical or prescribed arrangement among component parts such that proper functioning or appearance is achieved: checked to see that the shipping department was in order.
Condition or state in general: The escalator is in good working order.

The established system of social organization: "Every revolution exaggerates the evils of the old order" (C. Wright Mills).
A condition in which freedom from disorder or disruption is maintained through respect for established authority: finally restored order in the rebellious provinces.
A sequence or arrangement of successive things: changed the order of the files.
The prescribed form or customary procedure: the order of worship.
An authoritative indication to be obeyed; a command or direction.

A command given by a superior military officer requiring obedience, as in the execution of a task.
orders Formal written instructions to report for military duty at a specified time and place.

A commission or instruction to buy, sell, or supply something.
That which is supplied, bought, or sold.

A request made by a customer at a restaurant for a portion of food.
The food requested.
Law A direction or command delivered by a court or other adjudicative body and entered into the record but not necessarily included in the final judgment or verdict.
Ecclesiastical
Any of several grades of the Christian ministry: the order of priesthood.
The rank of an ordained Christian minister or priest. Often used in the plural.
The sacrament or rite of ordination. Often used in the plural.
Any of the nine grades or choirs of angels.
A group of persons living under a religious rule: Order of Saint Benedict.
An organization of people united by a common fraternal bond or social aim.

A group of people upon whom a government or sovereign has formally conferred honor for unusual service or merit, entitling them to wear a special insignia: the Order of the Garter.
The insignia worn by such people.
A social class. Often used in the plural: the lower orders.
A class defined by the common attributes of its members; a kind.
Degree of quality or importance; rank: poetry of a high order.
Architecture
Any of several styles of classical architecture characterized by the type of column and entablature employed. Of the five generally accepted classical orders, the Doric, Ionic, and Corinthian orders are Greek and the Tuscan and Composite orders are Roman.
A style of building: a cathedral of the Gothic order.
Biology A taxonomic category of organisms ranking above a family and below a class. See Table at taxonomy.
Mathematics
The sum of the exponents to which the variables in a term are raised; degree.
An indicated number of successive differentiations to be performed.
The number of elements in a finite group.
The number of rows or columns in a determinant or matrix.
To issue a command or instruction to.
To give a command or instruction for: The judge ordered a recount of the ballots.
To direct to proceed as specified: ordered them off the property.
To give an order for; request to be supplied with.
To put into a methodical, systematic arrangement. See Synonyms at arrange.
To predestine; ordain.
]]> http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v138/__show_article/_a000138-000012.htm 2003-09-27T13:33:08Z 2003-10-26T08:48:44Z

Through the Ages - From Birth to Eternity Christianity and Magic - the same thing? An impossible concept to some. But only to some...... yet it is as real as the concept of a man born of divine powers sacrificing himself by dying on a cross in order to sit at the right hand side of his Father, ...

Through the Ages - From Birth to Eternity

Christianity and Magic - the same thing? An impossible concept to some. But only to some...... yet it is as real as the concept of a man born of divine powers sacrificing himself by dying on a cross in order to sit at the right hand side of his Father, the almighty Creator in Heaven. And it is real as the concept of a Magician through wisdom, dying on the Holy Rosy Cross in surrender to his higher self and/or God.

The opening paragraph may already have you wanting to either close this page down, or contact this site to froth outrage. That is for you to decide. You see, whether you agree with the contents of this article or not, it will not remove the possibility (I've refrained from using the word 'reality'), that Christianity and Magic are at the very core, the SAME thing.

The ultimate goal of Magic is the unification of the self with God.
The ultimate goal of Christianity is the unification of the self with God.
Christianity uses the concept of a Saviour, the only begotten Son of God, who died on the Cross in order to be raised from the dead. And through that sacrifice, you can be reborn as a new being, united with God's infinite Love.
Magic uses the concept of learning the mysteries of the only begotten Sun of God and achieving the realisation that the Self must die on the Holy Rosy Cross in order to emerge, reborn a new being, united with God's infinite Love.

The methods for achieving this state of being through Christianity may appear different from the methods employed by Magicians to unify themselves with God, but with closer scrutiny and study, they are the same ethics and practices described as different concepts. But that's okay. Isn't it? It's Unifying. It's The Divine meeting with The Divine. Or is it blasphemous to Christians and utterly ridiculous to Magicians?

Christianity acknowledges Christ as the Son of God.
Magic acknowledge illumination as the Sun of God.

Some are not caught up in the debate of whether Jesus actually walked the Earth. The real identity of the historical Jesus is not as important as the subsequent mythical development around his personage as the Christ; an amalgam of all the previous myths of the solar, dying and rising God-Men from various cultures including Egypti (Osiris) and Greece (Dionysus). It would be looked upon as a manifestation of the Christ at the dawning of the Piscean Age. We have now entered a new aeon, or age - the Age of Aquarius, or in Egyptian terminology, The aeon of Horus. The various traditions and mythos of the Sons or Suns of God are further discussed in another article from this site entitled, 'The Godmen' - http://www.livingstonemusic.net/godmen.htm

The Zodiac and The Ages....
Approximately every 2,150 years, the Earth enters a new phase in it's journey around the Zodiacal belt. It will take that length of time for the spring sun to travel through the constellation from one age to another. If we were to live for 25,800 years, or one great year, we would witness twelve new ages. Pisces (the 'Fish') has now given way to the Aquarius and with that comes new thinking, new realisations. It's not that the old ways are no longer valid, it just means that there comes along new concepts about God and the Universe. They will eventually supercede the older customs and beliefs. In another 2,000 years from now, we will proceed into the next age, 'Capricorn'. In Egyptian mythology it will be known as the Aeon of Maat.

Knowledge and discovery shapes our concepts of the universe. This in turn shapes our perceptions of what God is, which then form the beliefs and religions of the world. If we go back to the age before Pisces, the age of Aries, the belief held throughout the known world was that God and the Earth was encapsulated within Woman.

Woman was seen as the source of life. We are born from her and her milk sustains us until we are old enough to be sustained from the Earth herself. Woman's menstrual cycles run in harmony with the cycles of the Moon and when the cycle of bleeding was interrupted her belly swells for nine moons. It was viewed that nothing was more powerful than Woman. From her all nourishment came and without her nothing could survive. Mother was life. Earth was Mother. God was Woman. This knowledge at that point in time gave birth to the worship of the Goddess. This was the Aeon of Isis.

The age of Aries, or the Aeon of Isis evolved into a new way of thinking formed by new knowledge of the Universe, and a shift of of focus from the Earth Goddess to the Sun.
Men and Women formed the concept of the Sun being the great nourisher of all life forms on the Earth. The fertility of the Earth was dependent directly upon the vitalising energies given from the Sun and consequently, the survival of the Human race along with all other life forms was therefore dependent upon the Sun.
Without the Sun, life would not exist. Without the semen of Man, Woman would remain barren. Woman brings forth life, but life comes from the Sun. God was now perceived as The Father of life. With this new thinking however, there was a darker aspect.....

It was viewed that the Sun was born each morning and travelled across the sky, bestowing its blessings on all life. But it was also perceived that the Sun 'died' at the end of every day, plunging the Earth and its inhabitants into cold and darkness. The next morning the Sun was reborn to sustain life. This formed a perpetual fear that maybe the Sun would not be reborn in the morning. All life would cease to exist.
Of course, now we know that the Sun does not 'die' or 'sacrifice itself'. The Sun is 'on' all the time. It is the Earth that spins and therefore causes one half of the globe to be out of sight of the Sun.
It was against this perception of a 'dying Sun' that formed the formula of the 'dying God' who is resurrected, was created. This gave way to the myths of Osiris, Dionysus, Attis, Adonis, Mithras, Hercules, Krishna and Christ.
The Sun of God was born, he died and was resurrected. People formed the belief that knowledge of this formula of Life, Death and Resurrection would give them the right to resurrection after their death. This period, the ages of Pisces, was the time when all major religions we know of today were formulated.
These principles were also embraced by Magicians. This was also the period of the 'Mystery Schools' in Greece and Egypt - the teachings which from the new knowledge acquired, formulated the inner mysteries of the Sun and how we use these concepts to achieve rebirth as a new, enlightened being. Resurrected in the light of God.
This was the period when Christianity was born. It told the story of the 'dying Sun' through the myth of Jesus, the Son of God who lived and died only to be resurrected again, therefore achieving his victory over death. And only through the Son could eternal life be attained.

We are now in the initial pangs of the next age, Aquarius. It is also known as the Aeon of Horus. It is the 'child' of Isis (the Earth Goddess} and Osiris (The sacrificed and resurrected Sun/Son of God). It is the reconciler of the previous two ages. It is the age of the intellect and self-empowerment. And with it will come another shift of thinking. No longer do we need to live in fear of the Sun dying and having to reborn to sustain us. The power of the Sun remains constant for us.
We are also seeing a re-emergence of the Goddess mythos that was so violently oppressed by the reign of religions. Christianity will tell you that this 'occult' teaching will inevitably lead you to 'Hell', but it is a logical progression to have this concept arise once again. That is because it was formed on knowledge of that period. It was how we seen the Universe. It shaped the dying sun-god viewpoint, which has now evolved into the age of the Self, or the intellect. And the intellect gathers all available information and forms a viewpoint. We are doing this now, but there will be upheavals due to the resistance from organised religions.
There were terrible upheavals during the shift from the Age of Aries to the Age of Pisces which lead to untold human suffering as the newer ways eventually stamped their authoritarian boot on the face of the older, Earth Goddess customs.

The age of Aquarius is the child of Aries and Pisces. Or the Aeon of Horus is the child produced by the Aeons of Isis and Osiris. And we are that child who is becoming aware of the possibilities we each possess. We love and respect our parents (Isis and Osiris), but we are not them. We are now individuals who will learn from the teachings and mistakes of the past attempts of our ancestors to discover eternal life.. Rather than seeing Creation as a place full of fear (of dying like the Sun/Son), we are being liberated by the realisation that the Universe is also an evolving being just like Humanity, and that existence is continuos. Death does not happen. Eternal life is here to be celebrated and witnessed. We pass from body to body, incarnation after incarnation, each time gaining wisdom and knowledge of the Universe.
The next Age of Capricorn or Aeon of Maat will bring newer knowledge and concepts as Humanity strives for the Divine Light.

With the new knowledge which is now emerging, the wisdom that the past methods of 'reaching salvation' or God are not to be scorned upon. They were products of the perceived environment. The new realisations which are now appearing to people merely supercede the older ways, rather like how technology has transformed our lives. We can build houses out of stronger and easier to work with materials, but we could also use the older method of building a house out of clay. It would still work, but the newer methods are better.

Magic and Christianity strive for the same goal. All other religions strive for that same goal also. Now in this new age of intellect, we can develop that blessed insight into what we are capable of...... Infinity.

© livingstonemusic.net 2003

This article originates from livingstonemusic.net http://www.livingstonemusic.net/christianmagic.htm
]]> http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v138/__show_article/_a000138-000009.htm 2003-08-30T16:03:44Z 2003-09-26T13:30:08Z

When will we awaken from this current state of being? The answer is when we do, but for now, We lick up the vomit from television. Our eyes are painted over with entertainment........

When will we awaken from this current state of being?
The answer is when we do, but for now,
We lick up the vomit from television.
Our eyes are painted over with entertainment.
Our ears are hammered into submission by dumbed noise, in pulses of infant choruses.
Out of tune, we sing to this bile, hypnotised.
We swim through the sewers of fame, gulping in the brown waters of the Rich's excrement.
The sparkle of jewels blind with the sharpest glint, cutting through the eyes in slices.
Made blind, but to the glint.
Everybody paid. Everybody worked.
We sweat pig-dirt. We break our bones.
Time out. Laser Beam. Speculate to Accumulate.
Freedom of speech, but a disappearing soul.
The thirteen moons, all but forgotten.
The unequal months of de-synchronisation.
The vulgar left to the vulgar. The swine to the swill.
Locked up. Fed scraps from the table.
Truth is lies and lies are truth.
A red plastic car, fast for an unknown reason.
Artifice.
Dominated.
Unaware of free will.
Battered.
Unaware of our power.
Goyim.
Unaware of our infiniteness.
Led to Slaughter.
Unaware of our purpose.
Throat cut and bled.
Unaware of our destiny.
Disconnected from The Universe.
]]> http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v138/__show_article/_a000138-000005.htm 2002-11-06T11:39:06Z 2003-09-27T13:29:57Z

//: politicians tell you lies //: they have to //: they lie to you about about your world //: if you knew the facts about your world, your creation and your creator, you would realise that you hold the power in your world - not them //: elevate your mind //: you already have everything you need......

//: politicians tell you lies //: they have to //: they lie to you about about your world //: if you knew the facts about your world, your creation and your creator, you would realise that you hold the power in your world - not them //: elevate your mind //: you already have everything you need.....and that includes your freedom.
-----------------------------------------------------------
//: a story //:

A large boat docked in a small Mediterranean island.
A local fisherman watched as this very expensive looking vessel gracefully halted.
An American tourist jumped out of the boat.

"Hi!" said the tourist to the fisherman, looking at his catches of the day.

"Wow! You got great fish 'round these parts. How long did it take you to catch that lot?".

"Not very long," answered the fisherman.

"But then, why didn't you stay out longer and catch more?" asked the American.

The fisherman explained that his small catch was sufficient to meet his needs and those of his family.

The American asked, "But what do you do with all your time?"

"I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, and take a siesta with my wife. In the evenings, I go into the village to see my friends, have a few drinks, play the guitar, and sing a few songs...I have a full life."

The American interrupted, "I have an MBA from Harvard and I can help you!"

"You should start by fishing longer every day. You can then sell the extra fish you catch. With the extra revenue, you can buy a bigger boat. With the extra money the larger boat will bring, you can buy a second one and a third one and so on until you have an entire fleet of trawlers.

Instead of selling your fish to a middle man, you can negotiate directly with the processing plants and maybe even open your own plant."

"You can then leave this little village and move to the mainland! Maybe buy a real nice house! From there you can direct your huge enterprise."

"How long would that take?" asked the fisherman.

"Twenty, perhaps twenty-five years," replied the American. "And after that?"

"Afterwards? That's when it gets really interesting," answered the American, laughing. "When your business gets really big, you can start selling stock and make millions!"

"Millions? Really? And after that?"

"After that -- and this is the best part -- you'll be able to retire, live in a tiny village near the coast, sleep late, catch a few fish, take a siesta, and spend your evenings drinking and enjoying your friends!

The fisherman simply smiled.

Sometimes what you really need is what you have already got.
Empower Yourself.
---------------------------------------
livingstonemusic.net 2002

]]> http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v138/__show_article/_a000138-000003.htm 2002-10-02T12:05:52Z 2002-10-02T12:05:52Z

its a simple management technique.... If you want to implement plans, that are of a highly sensitive nature, and would not be accepted by the people you wish to accept them, you first must create a problem. The problem will be related to the subject of your plans........The people affected by t...

its a simple management technique....

If you want to implement plans, that are of a highly sensitive nature, and would not be accepted by the people you wish to accept them, you first must create a problem. The problem will be related to the subject of your plans........The people affected by the problem will therefore, create a reaction to the problem which you created....... You then may introduce the solution (your original plans) as a reactive measure to the problem which you created......... The people who were affected by the problem which you created, will in almost all cases, welcome and thank you for implementing your original plans, which, without the problems you created, would never have been accepted.

livingstonemusic.net 2002]]> http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v138/__show_article/_a000138-000002.htm 2002-10-01T15:30:01Z 2002-10-01T15:30:01Z

War is Peace, which means villains are necessary. Many thousands of years ago, the ethic of 'War is Peace' was conceived. When war rages, or the threat of war looms overhead, the masses become focused on that impending doom. This clears the pathway for the ruling classes to lead a peaceful exi...

War is Peace, which means villains are necessary.

It seems to me back here, that we as a species, have lost the ability to feel love and respect for one another. Each person now either outwardly or inwardly, lives in a state of perpetual fear. This is fuelled by the constant, deliberate onslaught of negative 'news' from our media sources.
We always are balancing dangerously on a precipice, waiting to fall headlong into the abyss of even more darkness. This darkness is War, Disease, Crime, the sickening abuse of children and a myriad of other horrors we inflict on each other.

There is a surreal and sickening twist to this, with the fact that there are people in this world holding positions of our trust, working fanatically and covertly, to make sure that's the way it remains. I'm talking about the World's politicians, the World's aristocracy and the economic heavyweights.

Many thousands of years ago, the ethic of 'War is Peace' was conceived.
When war rages, or the threat of war looms overhead, the masses become focused on that impending doom. This clears the pathway for the ruling classes to lead a peaceful existence, well away from the gaze of the 'cattle' (that's you and I).

This is what the phrase 'War is Peace' actually means. It's a double-bound statement. The notion of war is and always has been a technique employed for keeping the masses in a state of perpetual fear. Divide and Rule. Order out of Chaos....

But it's War only to the masses - because they will be the ones who will be sent into combat.
And it's the threat of War only on the masses. The ruling classes will be well away from the action.
And war is peace - but only to the privileged and the aristocracy. Their lives will not be threatened by war.

At the time of writing, the US under George W Bush, along with Great Britain under Tony Blair, are almost certainly going to wage war on Saddam Hussein's Iraq. Both the US and Britain are desperately looking for incriminating evidence against Saddam to bolster their request for an all-out attack to oust him from power.
Yes, Saddam is a megalomaniac tyrant who has caused immense suffering to his own people and his country's neighbours, but in order to keep the world's population embedded in fear, villains are necessary.

Saddam, like Hitler, Bin Laden, Gaddaffi, Castro, etc. are essential pawns on the global chessboard. They play the archetypal evil figure. The Devil. A cloud of darkness looming over us all. These figures are played against us as and when it is required. Osama bin Laden has served his purpose playing the role of evil manifested. Now it's time for Saddam to play his part in a carefully choreographed and scripted 'play'.

During the Gulf War, Saddam constantly referred to George Bush Senior as "The Satan Bush". That kept his little ones in a state of fear, always in need of protection from their great leader.
From the Western perspective, Saddam is part of the 'axis of evil'. This implants in our minds, the threat from our version of 'The Devil'. Therefore, we need the 'helping hand' of our Big Brother - the System.

The great scam becomes even more apparent when you look at the key players in the US/GB war on Iraq - Bush, Blair and Saddam. They are the ones who will cause the war with each other, but will not actually do the fighting. No, their fighting is carried out for them by ordinary people, who are much too frightened to refuse to. In fact, if they don't, they will be punished by prison or in some cases, death.
It's horrendous, but it's very, very clever. And you and I let it be repeated time and time and time again.

Don't forget, the human beings who will be actually in combat with each other, will know nothing about each other. They will be told that the other side is the evil enemy even though they have no personal experiences of each other. They will forget that they are actually the same.....simply people who are following orders, like cattle being led to slaughter.
Very few of the soldiers on the US/GB and Iraqi sides will be exercising their FREE WILL.
How many of these men do you think actually do want to risk their lives for whatever cause?
How many of these men do you think will be absolutely petrified beyond imagination when they go to battle?
They (as Adolf Eichmann stated), "were just following orders".......

Remember Meltchett in the TV comedy series 'Blackadder'? Then think of Bush, Blair and Saddam - no doubt they can't go to battle because of their "dicky bladders"....

Adolf Hitler once said, "how fortunate for us that the masses do not think..."

One day maybe, we will all wake up from this nightmare and take back control of our own lives and our own free will.]]> http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v138/__show_article/_a000138-000001.htm 2002-10-01T15:28:09Z 2002-10-01T15:28:09Z