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New Civilization News: This Isn't Spirituality |
Category: Altered States 5 comments
19 Jan 2006 @ 20:06 by vibrani : Something on which we agree 19 Jan 2006 @ 20:21 by soultruth : Dear Rishi Dear Rishi, I know what you are saying and I do agree. People that say they are this or that and channel from obscure sources, never giving an ounce of proof of whom they are channeling, are leading so many astray. (If they are at all involved in the standards and consciousness of the world they are probably just channeling their own souls or some beings of the same wavelength from a lower consciousness anyway. Hey, if they don't really look honestly, then they don't even know who it is they are "hearing".) People seem to believe this kind of crap because they are so lost and don't want to look at the misery in the world and their lives. You have written so much of what can really be done, not in words but in action, and if you will, can we have a discussion about this stuff here? I know you have written about Group Mind and it's effects, simple living and truth! I know by living in the standards of the world we are a part of it and only adding to the corruption of it all. Paying taxes, taking sides, living with so much more than we need, the lists goes on and on. I don't want to pay taxes to this government and I do want to live simply. If more people just had this desire alone, and did it to some degree, it could change the world. This would also give them more time to be focus on their spirit and not their egos and images. I guess I said enough. thanks for the post. 20 Jan 2006 @ 20:02 by rishi : Ok, Let's talk I'd love to discuss any of the points made herein, and otherwise.... ******* The letters I’ve received thus far regarding Sheldon Nidle are followed by my comments, as I responded to the senders. (Apparently someone posted a copy on the PAO Web forum and this has caused something of a stir) Basically, I’m saying that such statements as Nidle makes are sheer nonsense, and are absolutely NOT a suitable alternative to genuine spiritual practice or wisdom… **********- ---- Original Message ----- From: the dave [mailto:thedave@dkdesigns.net] Sent: 1/19/2006 5:56:46 PM To: visionquest@eoni.com Subject: email you sent to Colleen Nidle > Dear Matthew Webb, > > A recent short email you sent to Colleen Nidle was posted on the Paoweb > groups site and after reading it, I wanted to write you. > > I have been reading messages from Sirian leaders through Sheldan for > 6+ years. To say he is a charlatan is to say I am the same if I believe > what he writes. However, this is not the case at all. After many years > and many paths I have been able to see past the trickery of this world > and can understand the many larger scenarios that are playing out. > > Whatever you may believe, I can assure you that if you investigated > further, it would become clear to you that your statement is incorrect. > The information that Sheldan has passed on has been clear, sensible and > reasonable. The highest vision always talked about is infinite love. Of > course, that does not mean it is real, but it helps. > > Nonetheless, it doesn't matter if you believe or not. I just want you > to know that your statement may well be your opinion, or even your > "truth", however, it has no basis in actual fact. > > When landings and announcements begin, pleased keep that in mind and be > prepared to help your fellow citizens to understand that all is > happening per the Divine Plan, and there is no reason to fear. > > God Luck with your society. May you achieve all of your goals > > Sincerely, > > The Dave Ø Carlsbad, Calif., USA My reply; Dear Dave, Ok, let's say you're right and Sheldon is absolutely correct in all his assertions...that aliens are going to "land" soon, and all that other talk about changes in world consciousness, etc. My question is this; If any of this has even a humble portion of truth to it, then why doesn't our illustrious Mr. Nidle offer even basic deifnitions for the words he's using, (such as consciousness) or give even a shred of reasoning or evidence as to why he should be believed? If he's sincere then that should be no problem, right? And if he can't supply even basically logical reasoning or believable evidence other than "I said so" then why should his paradigm be seen as anything more credible than the Christian fundamentalist "faith" in the so-called "immaculate conception"? Mind you, I know something of consciousness and various other matters of which Sheldon speaks. But in my case and in my writings, I provide clear definitions based upon the concepts of science, not fanciful speculation. If a writer can't even define the words they use, then may6be they should think twice about using them so loosely. I await your sound evidence and/or reasoning which supports what I call "the Nidle nonsense". Warm regards, Matthew Founder of the World Mind Society [link] In a second response regarding this issue, I received the following letter, which I respond to at length afterwards…. ---------- From: Ricardo Ocampo Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:15:17 -0600 To: PaoPag FORUM for PAO Coordinators Subject: Sheldan Nidle Charlatan? I wouldn't finger on Sheldan as a charlatan, dear Matthew, he's a holder of a great hart, as all of ourselves; the name of the game, as you know, is love, and he needs it -as everybody- to make his communication clearer... People can discern already! I love him because nobody believe in him! ;-) The pourpose of the gathering in Spain this year is interreligious dialogue, just as simple as that... Love in action, here, now, without ET's and Nesara bull... Without 'new age' bullshit, as we coincide... Let's refound the Mind Society proposals and provocations in the web of light, congratulations! Love & Peace This is our seventh anniversary online!! 90 countries 50,000 daily subscribers just a nothing... let's keep it small... we're not a threat Ricardo *********** Hermano Ricardo, I understand about the indigenous meeting you're having, and like I said, I would certainly attend if I was able. Please understand that my view on Mr. Nidles' works are a matter of principle. Spirituality is not, and must never be, just a "placebo" or a "feel good" replacement for reality, as I'm sure you know. Spirituality is a matter of embracing reality and the laws of nature on their own ground, rather than "wishing" them differently or making up Gods in straw men, only to worship them afterwards. What I'm saying is that the spiritual practitioner has a deep responsiblity to exercise careful discernment, regarding what is true and what is not true. The wise know that all propositions are not equal, that all assertions cannot possibly be true. The world, for instance, is not flat merely because someone may believe so, and regardless of the fact that this was once widely believed. Likewise, aliens are not going to "land" soon to take away all our problems, just as mighty jehovah is not going to come down to take away our woes, merely because we say so. Truth has a stronger basis in fact than mere assertion or wishful thinking, needless to say, and it is our responsiblity to discern what is nonsense and what is truly needful. In my estimation of Nidles' claims, which I've been hearing for years now, is that his words do not ring true...they lack substance, logic, evidence, careful reasoning and most of all, they lack spiritual merit. It is not enough to merely say "unconditionally love one another" and then never bother to define what kind of love we're referring to. Are we talking about sentimental attachment, puppy love, or spiritual unity? And if we ARE talking about spiritual unity, then we'd better also talk about being truthful, having clarity, understanding the soul, (consciousness within) and about planetary responsibility for ourselves, rather than mentally relying upon "the aliens" to clean up our mess for us. For these reasons and others, I see Nidle as doing a DEEP disservice to the spiritual community. It is authors like him who give the New Age movement a bad name, because he does not promote credibility or careful thinking of any kind. These are a part and parcle of spirituality, and without them, what you've got left is just the dogmatic and arbitrary nonsense of religions and cults, which are a meaningless as they are delusional. The Jehovah Witnesses for example have been giving precise predictions for the end of the world now for over 60 years, and upon every occasion they've been proven wrong. I'm wondering how many of Mr. Nidles' predictions have suffered the same fate. I say these things not because they are pleasant but because they are true, and it is my responsiblity to say them, therefore, regardless of how I may feel about the matter. Responsible spiritual practice means advocating those sound and practical measures which will really have any chance at transforming the human condition from its' present course of disaster. Responsible spiritual practice then, unlike Mr. Nidles' statements, advocates REAL remedies that address the human condition like meditation not fanciful story-telling, honesty, not waiting for aliens to land, and truth, not made-up statements which are made up precisely because they cannot be corroborated by anyone except the person who makes unfounded claims. Does talking about love make the world a loving place? No. Does speaking of clarity cause the worlds' people to become instantly lucid? NO. Spiritual practice is about doing the necessary inner work to accomplish something great, and through a life so dedicated. Waiting for the aliens to land is a fools' game, not the focus of the sincere practitioner of spiritual advancement, and only the irresponsible person promotes such nonsense as a substitute for the often difficult inner work of spiritual advancement. I trust this will shed some light on this issue. Love and Clarity to you, and your works, Brother. Matthew Webb Founder of the World Mind Society [link] Ø 20 Jan 2006 @ 22:06 by blueboy : Dear Matt I love your comment here above. THANK YOU!!!I would like to bring to the table my two cents as well... : ) As You mentioned in one of your comments here, that to KNOW or at least make known the definition one chooses to have for some keywords is a good, in fact very necessary thing!... so... I'll do just that: To me "Spiritual" means to understand Life the way Life understands Life... which is to say; to learn to understand and follow the LAWS of PHYSICS that HOLDS THE UNIVERSE TOGETHER so to speak! We know we have access to three different physics as Humans: the Newtonian, which applies to all things we perceive as Matter. The Laws of Matter makes it possible to not destroy our tangible world -if we choose to follow the rules!... The Physics of Matter is SUBordinated the Physics we call Quantum physics: the physics of Light(= "Colour" ) and Sound = Vibrations/ frequencies -like in radio, TV, microwave ovens etc. We have learned to utilize some of the effects, ruled by/from within QM! But most of what we're doing -at this point-is just SPEKULATING about the Laws that make QM to Quantum Mechanics! Those Laws of Quantum mechanics acts as "SUPERIOR" to the Physics of Matter -which in its own turn is SUBordinated to the Laws of Metaphysics, which really translates to "BEYOND-Physiscs". I wonder if this could be an expression of Meta Physics? Maybe. Whom am I to say "no" in this case?! See for yourself: [link] I personally can't say I REALLY know -let alone Master- this part at all!... Sure I can pretend I do, just like billions of people on Earth do!.... But Metaphysics being the MASTER KEY that unlocks Heaven - on Earth- /"The Kingdom of God" - reality, is the one we all should need to learn first, eh? .... but since we have to start SOMEWHERE, we might as well start in our own BackYard and see how each decicion we do during the course of -even- one day in our life, determines HOW ACCURATELY we follow the Laws of Matter!... Do we really????.... All you who are waiting for the Heavenly Hosts to come and save you WHO IS GOING TO SAVE the PLANET from all the shit ( in all its various forms from Pharmaceutical poison, that we then call Medications for this & that, -Industrial- Chemical TOXIC Waste, the Every-day garbage, we produce for our -oh so- convenient "daily life", ad infinitum)? Are the Angels gonna take Grocery Bags and walk down the "green" areas, like a recreational Trail at the edge of the subburbs, and pick up all the BROKEN GLASS you/we threw there, coz we just didn't give a huuut.... "the Galactic Hotshots are saving us. All I/we need is to believe in them" = be their greatest FANS, eh? Well, I don't think so! Or does Sheldon think so? What solution does he offer??? I never heard of any... Obviously there is something wrong with this kind of thinking!BUT THIS IS - I believe- WHERE TRUE SPIRITUALITY BEGINS: "Do Unto Others..." even if/when this "OTHERS" is the Environment, the Nature; the very Plants that sustains our life, as well as the Animals around us!... DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU!... THIS is the New Paradigm Understanding /thinking, that will give us that tiny little window of opportunity to save ourselves and the Planet, which -once again is the one things that sustains our very LIFE!... and if we don't have life here, we ain't having that life anywhere else either! So this is exactly where our TRUE spiritual life starts: [link] CLEANING UP our own poisonous way of living our daily life, is the ONLY Thing that has a chance to be/come our Saviour! Lets do it!...one piece of broken glass less in the woods at the time, one gallon of oil used in our vehicles at the time, one pharmceutical remedy less at the time, one industrial Cattle Torturing Ranch less at the time etc etc. To do something to reverse the harm and deterioration we forced upon Earth -if possible anylonger, but at least we have to give it our very best try- would be truly Spiritual; the Path of REPENTANCE & AMENDS! ( These two means are Cosmic Law. Without walking through that Door, metaphorically speaking, one is declaring to Universe: "I choose destruction / annihilation" That is one's prerogative.But to think that one can re-place Repentance and Amends and be "saved" is MADNESS!) [link] On these pages I have found a LOT of true Spirituality; [link] http://www.auroville.org/vision/maonav_selected.htm The Cosmic Laws that hold ALL LIFE together -as in HEALTHY AND INTACT are the same to ALL as well as EVERYWHERE in Universe; they are indeed IMMUTABLE!... Let's not forget the Cosmic Truth, that HEALTH unites ALL Life! Well, here I have now forth on the table my two cents for all with eyes to see, as the saying goes. THANKS Matt! 6 Apr 2006 @ 06:15 by mppotterpo : our space brothers The following words are from Kevin Rowe who wrote a book about our space brothers. I have always been impressed by his book which is called, "A Call at Dawn'. so much so that I typed his entire book into a file, which is a rare book to find these days as it has been out of print for quite a long time. The author has made his transition from this world. He was the father of a neighbor I knew in San Jacinto, CA. He traveled with our space brothers in their ships many time, hundreds of times he said. He learned much from them. They told him that they would not come here to clean house for Earth because man would only get it into the same condition again, since it is man that needs to change more than pollution being cleaned up. They constantly spoke to Kelvin this, "Man, know thyself" ....These brothers spoke nothing about a divine rescue mission to take man from the earth in space ships....but spoke forthrightly about man's ability to help himself. Just a little from this book follows: "We can attain to the higher only by spiritual growth and awareness. Only by our development of consciousness here on this planet can we become ready for a higher planet. Such development is brought about by experience and desire, by turning to the true, inner man, the spiritual man. This does not mean you must eliminate all material things from your life. All the sages of all religions have taught that man must become spiritual because Jesus said, “God is spirit and must be worshiped in spirit and truth”,, a passage which is quite overworked. Man is made not in a physical image of god, but in the spiritual image of God. Man should realize that he is not a child of god, but is, in his highest nature, God itself. “God Itself” because He is neither male nor female. God is all things; He is One. There is nothing without Him, nothing in all the universe which is not God. Even negation or that which man calls evil, is God which is in a condition of inharmony in relation to the perfect order of God. Man, himself, is a fallen God, yet he is still a channel through which Divine Order seeks to perfect negative disorder. Every experience we can conquer perfects some of the disorder into a condition of perfect order which results in growth and expansion of Divine Light. Many have a wrong conception of God. Living in a world of form and substance they are accustomed to measure God by their own idea of form and substance. They say that He is perfect; they say that He is the absolute of all there is and they are correct in that in a way, but it is nature for the material mind to limit God. They think of Him as all perfection and there is nothing beyond that perfection. Have you ever thought that what is perfection to man is not perfection to God? If god is a living spirit, He is a growing spirit and He cannot be limited in any circle, even perfection. If that were true then god could not think a new thought. He could not create anything new. The Ancient’s concept of God was: “That He was ever growing, ever expanding, ever becoming greater and greater and all His parts were growing into an ever greater state.” The idea of an anthropomorphic god was established because man mistook the symbol for the real and brought Him down to Earth and applied all their own attributes to Him. That is why we read in the Old Testament that God was a jealous God, and that He repented. Man fell from his high estate and he repented and he thought God repented. That is the way with people, we try to blame things on someone else, and man must eradicate that condition from his consciousness for it is not until we know ourselves that we can know God for we are the reflection of that great light. These things and much more the space brothers taught Kelvin Rowe who had no previous knowledge of metaphysical subjects but from reading his book you can see that he learned much from our space brothers that were from Pluto and Jupiter. I wish to share the words of Kelvin Rowe. His family has given me their permission to do so. I can send what I have typed as a file to anyone interested if this is permitted on this forum. I don't know however if it is. Those who have read the "Galatic Federation of Light" might want to read this book and if they do they will see a stark difference in what is taught in it and what is just told to be so in Sheldan Nidle book. We do have space brothers and a good understanding of them is a great thing to want but one should read many different authors, and this one is really good in my opinion. Other entries in Altered States 13 Apr 2008 @ 10:06: Oblivions Dreamer 25 Jun 2007 @ 15:14: Your Dreams Miss You - 4 24 Apr 2007 @ 04:48: The Nine Unknown Men 17 Apr 2007 @ 15:43: The Ascended Masters 6 Aug 2006 @ 02:09: When GOD Speaks YOU write it down & share the vision! 23 Jun 2006 @ 16:49: Reoccurring Dream 14 Jun 2006 @ 06:21: My Odd Little Dream 27 May 2006 @ 11:39: REUNITING WITH SELF 2 Feb 2006 @ 01:15: A Dream in Time !! 6 Jan 2006 @ 14:31: Adjacent Energy Emanations and Stray Polarities
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