|Shreepal Singh, a Concerned Global Citizen: A call to create New Civilization Zones !|
42 comments25 Feb 2007 @ 15:55 by athedge : This seems so right
This seems so right! Please speak more of this beautiful vision.
26 Feb 2007 @ 12:43 by shreepal : The force of human spirit fuels NCZs.
Athedge, thanks for comments. What is important in the article under comment is the power of the fuelling force that will propel mankind towards this change. Spirit of human being is caged, bonded, strangulated and humiliated today by our world - this brute civilization - not because this world has no means to allow her to express fully - a joyous living - but because it does not care to listen her voice. It has no value for the human spirit and her wailings for real freedom, which she badly needs to go further and which this world - our civilization - has the means to afford. The force of human spirit is undefeating one; the New Civilization would be ushered in by Time; New Civilization Zones would be brough into existence by this rebellious human spirit. It is only a matter of time. This civilization - the totally dishonest one in its pretentions of providing liberty to human beings - is not immortal; it has no inner strength; it is glittering outside and hollow within.
27 Feb 2007 @ 00:18 by b : Well Said
27 Feb 2007 @ 14:31 by shreepal : Joyous song of life.
Thanks, b for the comment. Life is a joyous song and it always marches ahead, notwithstanding obstacles in its way. In fact, obstacles make it to devise means to circumvent them. Our civilization has put obstacles in its forward movement - it is a natural mechanism of progress - and these would surely be overcome by devising a better alternative.
27 Feb 2007 @ 16:13 by athedge : Strategy
You do not need to convince me or most others who have awakened enough to understand that the way things are on this planet need to be changed. It is also clear that such changes will only transpire as individuals choose to alter the pathways that they travel creating a desire in others to want to follow. These NCZ's that you speak of seem like the right sort of thing to consider. They would be like laboratories in which the principles of the new paradigm could be put to the test and fine-tuned.
Are there any examples of such communities already existing in the world?
It seems to me that this idea is a radical one. Or better put ... this idea WILL BE SEEN as radical by the forces who would try to extinguish the flames of change. And they WILL try to eradicate any kind of social movement that gains any kind of momentum in changing the status quo. One only needs to look at history for examples of this. MLK, JFK,RFK, Malcolm X, etc...As soon as these visionaries began to have measurable impact on society, they were eliminated.
The winds of change are blowing and I have no doubt that the potential for achieving critical mass is present but most people will not jump on board until they know it is safe to do so. The powers that be know how to manipulate the fears of the populace and scare them into compliance and apathy. It will be the pioneers of this movement - people like you and me - who will need to find the courage to face down these forces armed with the unshakable faith that all will be well because we have THE TRUTH on our side. This will be and must be our only weapon. As these NCZ's grow and multiply and people feel that they can become involved without fear of arrest, intimidation or death, the new paradigm will take hold and we will have a beautiful new world. But such a great achievement must have a strategy of some sort at least at the beginning. Once the snowball starts rolling down the hill, things will take care of themselves. But we must ensure that our pioneers have as good a chance as possible to make this awesome vision a reality.
Key to this, in my opinion, is that there be no easily identifiable leadership - no particularly charismatic people who would be easy to target at the beginning. In my vision of how this might ultimately come to be, there are hundreds or thousands of very small NCZ's that materialize all at once with the organizational effort behind this difficult feat having happened under the radar of the present world order. Then each of these small communities very slowly grow, almost undetectably, quietly gaining the trust and confidence of the good and caring people who come in contact with them. Are there enough people out there now who could facilitate such an endeavor? Of the six billion people on the planet, are there a million or even one hundred thousand who could make this effort their life's work. Am I one of those people? I don't know yet. I would like to be.
Can all this begin to happen without cataclysm as its catalyst? Isn't that the point? At the point when cataclysmic events are happening, wouldn't it be too late?
These NCZ's seem idealistic (a word which is often lumped together with words such as misguided, impractical, unattainable, etc...) I contend that idealism IS practical and pragmatic in the new world paradigm!
"People say I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one." John Lennon
28 Feb 2007 @ 14:22 by shreepal : Things are taking shape in the world.
Dear Athedge thanks with deepest appreciation of the insight of your comment on the subject. In your comment I am learning a lot. There is no question of not agreeing. Yes, it all needs careful manoeuvre on our part. Let me take my own time to concentrate on the points that you so vividly pointed out. Yes, NCZs are idealistic; they are dreams but with a concrete force behind them that is loomimg large at the horizon now. But caution is the watch-word for the dreamers. Let us take our own time; the time is on our side today; there is no hurry; things are taking shape on their own in the world.
1 Mar 2007 @ 04:02 by shreepal : Others too pl respond to athedge' points
I request other friends too to please respond to the points raised by athedge.
10 Mar 2007 @ 15:22 by shreepal : Catalyst - It may take an Atomic War for
(1) Query: Are there any examples of such communities already existing in the world? There are three things: fertile soil for NCZs; seeds that could germinate into NCZs; and any growing seedlings of NCZs. Today's world provides the fertile soil. Also, there are seeds aplenty, people like you and me. There are growing seedlings also, though they would swear they have no inkling of what a thing NCZ is; but that does not matter. Examples of these growing seedlings within the public knowledge are: Many cities are on the way to coin their currencies in opposition to global ones; Communities are developing that are united in their aims of less consumption (I read a group initially decided not to purchase a single thing for 10 days or so and then extended it to a month; many new people entered the group etc.); Prince Charles openly advocated against fast-food of a well known multinationl (what an unthinkable event in whispering voice); Earth Summits of peoples are annually being held that harbour a spirit of rebellion against our present civilization.
(2)Every reigning civilization obtains its security by using to the hilt "the fears of the populace and scaring them into compliance". But this ploy can't stop their eventual fall and demise. It is a historic process and people like you and me are just ones among millions participating in this process. Yes, this historic process - like any other example in the past - is feulled by TRUTH and TRUTH ALONE. It is invinciable power.
(3) Strategy - Strategy comes in only when the forces involved are conscious of their aims. That stage has not come yet. But it may come soon, who knows?
(4) Your vision seems absolutely correct and practical that "there are hundreds or thousands of very small NCZ's that materialize all at once with the organizational effort behind this difficult feat having happened under the radar of the present world order. Then each of these small communities very slowly grow, almost undetectably, quietly gaining the trust and confidence of the good and caring people who come in contact with them." But there seems to be a tinge of "fear" in this vision, which need not be there in actual practice.
(5) Catalyst - It may take an atomic war for Mankind to awake to the necessity of an alternative civilization. Atomic war is not impossible. The sinister energy to accomplish this feat is "coiled in" in our present civilization. This energy - I, me, my, Money, My water, My air, My forests, My land, My Earth, even My Moon... - is uncoiling by transferring its energy to sinister institutions: Competition, Arrogance, Violence. There are some artificially devised safety valves to control sudden uncoiling and explosion, like humane face, human rights, social concerns etc. These valves may fail to provide safe outlet or may clog under the heavy load of this sinister energy and THE EVENT MAY HAPPEN. But Mankind may rise before it is too late. You and me are only individuals and are not counted any where in this process. We are the product of this process and not its generaters or controllers. It does not depend on us in the least. We may contribute in this process; and that we are doing.
10 Mar 2007 @ 19:25 by a-d : There's already
thousands of these Communities all around the world, doing pretty much all the things Shreepal is asking in this essay -except for own -'Internal' law enforcement -which they abhor as being one of the saddest and most dangerous and inherently ERRONEOUS OLD Paradigm Concepts, 180 degrees in opposition to the Concept of Loving and Living -In-Peace-Communities -and I couldn't agree more!
The one thing most of these Communities have been a little slow in implementing -with a few exceptions- is their own -Local- monetary system. But even that is changing as they grow in strength, size and Inner -as well as internal- Power.
Let's ALL get real about this "whole Mess" we're in: It is --after all the Nonsense ("Phu-Phu Ideologies; "Causes with all the attached Justifications ) are stripped away ONLY COVER-UPS for the REAL reason to this mess: SELFISHNESS!!!..... the Me& My, that Shreepal mentions here. THAT IS THEE CORE to ALL the Double Standards among people; also called "Evil".
Double Standard behavior; SELFISH behavior coupled with a lot of IGNORANCE is a deadly combo! Sooooo.... let's all remove these things first and then listen to the Inner Promptings that start coming up in y/our Mind: "Uuuuh... maybe I CAN change car to a less polluting.... Uuuuuhhh, maybe I can leave the (big) City and become a smalltime Farmer near a smallish Country Town. Maybe I don't need to support the Big Corps with my hard earned money. etc etc. Y/Our Divine Mind is right inside of us as soon as we look there -instead of accepting to remain stupid, obeying OTHER people's ORDERS on "How-To-live-our-Life" instead of listening to y/our own Conscience/Common Sense -lo behold; there are all the Answers/Promptings! THAT is where and what starts these new Communities! Nothing else!
There's more.... ; ) but you find it yourself!
10 Mar 2007 @ 19:39 by swanny : Caring
I thought once that people just weren't listening and if I spoke a little louder than maybe they would see... but its not that theyre not listening ... theyre listening they simply don't care... so if people don't care then threatening or casting aspirtions is pointless. They don't care if they or we live or die... so stop wasting your breath and go on with your own life. They know... they just have stopped caring.... enough already. I am happy that you care though and I know it isn't easy but don't expect others to care as well or that you can do something that will make them care.
12 Mar 2007 @ 15:46 by shreepal : Laws of NCZs and caring for others
a-d's point: thousands of these Communities... doing pretty much all the things stated in this essay "except for own -'Internal' law enforcement -which they abhor as being one of the saddest and most dangerous and inherently ERRONEOUS OLD Paradigm Concepts, 180 degrees in opposition to the Concept of Loving and Living -In-Peace-Communities -and I couldn't agree more!". The point made out in the essay is the 'self governance of these communities" and not establishing state-organs in the name of self-governance. In fact these communities are of the people who are of "some elevated" state of consciousness. Nevertheless, these communities are still of the people who still suffer "less frequently" from the degrading influence of Desires or Mind (Mind = reason or common sense trying to supress the voice of spirit). Some of them are bound to display, if only occassionally, behaviour that is not only in opposition to spirit's voice but even disruptive of the community's collective living. Then, you need some semblence of discipline; and that is what I meant when talking of the need of "their own laws" and constitution etc. Secondly, these communities are seen as "transitory stage" of evolving human beings who are yet to establish the total control of spirit over Desires and Reason. Auroville is mentioned. It had suffered infighting and even a court case was fought and the Indian Government had to intervene by making a law to take it over. In such matters the law that is evolved by the community is better than the law imposed by a State.
Swany: Caring for others and for right things is always needed. We have to look in this respect to ourselves only, our conduct. It may work as example for others to change. Even if others do'nt change their conduct by our example, there are very weighty spiritual reasons for us to continue on our path. We are not here on Earth to reform others but to elevate ourselves.
12 Mar 2007 @ 16:36 by swanny : caring
but are we here to care for others and to care for ourselves and it is hard when we see other not caring for themselves and the planet and one and other and ourselves. Caring is not reforming but teaching, educating, ???
How then do we care "effectively"? What is right and "lawful" caring then?
no they are not children but adults with perhaps misguided and impatient and shallow values.
12 Mar 2007 @ 18:31 by a-d : Well, sure.....
but we have to start somewhere, eh? ; ). Here's a link about people starting.... http://greeningtheapocalypse.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1 -if you guys don't mind : ).....
....and I would go so far as to say that "Caring for others and for right things..." is not only "always needed" BUT THE very KEY for us to live in Peace & Harmony with ALL around us!
.... and , yes, these Communities I mention(ed) they do know and they do live MUCH MORE caring than anybody who hasn't put their roots AND DAILY Life into such a Community!
I always wondered, why do people -with just a FEW exceptions-) here on NCN feel the need to pooh pooh the Ones who have already put into motion what 99.9% of people on NCN ONLY TALK about!!?! ....granted, most often done in very discrete, subtle hints but still, un-mistakenly, the pooh poohing goes on here against those who DO what many NCN Members only PRETEND doing -in any other form but TALK!
....and here is something we shouldn't even be talking about, but protesting by screaming, shouting, as loud as we can.
Whenever something truly caring is done by ANY-one, from the bottom of their Heart sincerely, we need to see that as an effort to live in this New Way, we purport to want to take hold in /of our Society.
12 Mar 2007 @ 19:47 by a-d : This ain't nothin'
to sneeze at either, imho. ; )
...and who knows; maybe the NCN Think Tank can find SOMETHING good here as well.... ; ) http://gen.ecovillage.org/index.html
15 Mar 2007 @ 14:36 by shreepal : Caring... and... novel communities
"are we here to care for others and to care for ourselves and it is hard when we see other not caring for themselves and the planet and one and other and ourselves. Caring is not reforming but teaching, educating, ??? "
It is always hard when you care for others but they don't care for your attitude. But it is a hard fact and it is happening every day before our eyes. The only question is: what are we to do in such circumstance? The answer is: Go on caring... go on doing what is correct and right in your eyes.
"Caring is not not reforming but educating, teaching??"
Educating and teaching are reforming. You teach some one and, if you succeed in making him imbibe your teaching, he is a changed person. He is reformed.
"How then do we care "effectively"? What is right and "lawful" caring then?"
Caring sincerely is caring effectively. Right is what you feel right with the bottom of your heart. "Lawful" caring? All right caring is "lawful" caring, because law survives only on the strength of "right or what is moral" or else it would become tyrannical and blown out in the course of time.
(2) a-d:... "Caring for others and for right things..." is not only "always needed" BUT THE very KEY for us to live in Peace & Harmony with ALL around us!"
Yes, it is so.
".... and , yes, these Communities I mention(ed) they do know and they do live MUCH MORE caring than anybody who hasn't put their roots AND DAILY Life into such a Community!"
These commuities - novel experiments on Earth - are the examples of higher human consciousness trying to organize themselves in a manner wherein spirit is enabled to express itself more freely than in our society.
"why do people -with just a FEW exceptions-) here on NCN feel the need to pooh pooh the Ones who have already put into motion what 99.9% of people on NCN ONLY TALK about!!?! ....granted, most often done in very discrete, subtle hints but still, un-mistakenly, the pooh poohing goes on here against those who DO what many NCN Members only PRETEND doing -in any other form but TALK!"
Rising above is difficult. There is always resistance. Mankind does not live at a single and uniform plane of consciousness; there are the vanguards, the middle rankings and the stragglers. It is the evolutionary carvan of life marching on Earth. We need not be unduly perturbed over it; we should mind our steps. And, such conduct on our part is in our own interest as well as in the interest of our collective life.
17 Apr 2007 @ 21:28 by b : Exactly so...
"We are not here on Earth to reform others but to elevate ourselves."
- Shreepal -
19 Apr 2007 @ 13:54 by shreepal : The question of elevating oneself
b. yes, we are here on Earth to elevate ourselves and no doubt whatsoever about the truth of this statement remains there if, and only if, we just care to look at the studies conducted by scientifically trained persons of the children remembering their earlier births. What for people take births and die and take births again continously? It is not for nothing. With the present rapid strides of science, people can no longer aford to befool themselves by remaing centered to this one present life and committed solely to fulfil its interests.
19 Apr 2007 @ 17:57 by b : Yes we need the truth
of who and what we humans are as the proof of our existence. There is more to life then birth, growth, change and die. There must be the understanding and acceptence that human beings on earth are a composite of body, mind, spirit. That the spirit, the being itself, I, me, you, leaves the body at point of death. That the proof exists.
20 Apr 2007 @ 14:09 by shreepal : Why some people don't accept the truth
Yes, we need to understand and accept that human beings on earth are a composite of body, mind, spirit, that the spirit, the being itself, leaves the body at point of death and that there is proof of these things. But the trouble is that there are people who know the truth of these things but do not want to accept it; they have no courage to face the truth. They fear the truth because it would ruin all that they have single-mindedly constructed in their inner and outer life in this world and that is dear to them. This truth would redically change them; they would not remain the same person any longer and they dread this prospect. Such a prospect is worse than the death to them. For this sorry state of affairs they are not to be blamed; they are not elevated enough in their consciousness. Therefore, they are not courageous enough to face the over-powering call of their spirit. Their spirit howls and laments for this carelessness on the part of the person, because it knows the person is most unfortunate in remaining steeped neck-deep in this world's transcient concerns and not paying any attention to its concerns, which are determined by considering the individual's interest spanning many lives. The spirit now and then raises its rebellious voice against this callous attitude of the infidal person (infidal because the spirit while taking birth -or choosing a physical body - has certain firm resolves to do certain thing in this world) but the person looks the other way and pretends not hearing any protest at all.
To help the spirit in its evolutionary mission, the debut of a new age is needed where the role of spirit and its call are wecome; where human beings are collectively elevated in their consciousness; where a thing rejected by the spirit's call is rejected by the society; where the culture of human beings is not animal-like self-indulgent in catering to the needs of this transcient one life only.
19 May 2007 @ 14:45 by shreepal : Stray talks: Many Lives, Many Masters
Many Lives, Many Masters by Dr Brian Weiss...
I came across this book recently. Hypnosis is a useful modern tool of psychiatry that allows one to enter and probe the hitherto unknown dimensions of subject’s mind. (The narration by the subject of his or her visualization of these dimensions may be likened – simply to understand in general terms and nothing more – a display of output data that has been processed by the software of Mind intalled in the hardware of the subject’s biological brain wherein the input is fed from these unknown dimensions.) This book has a useful message for science. During her deep trance Catherine relived the memories of many her past lives, of floating around her dead body just after the moments of her deaths in many previous lives and of meeting many people (and a few of them evolved Masters) living in worlds with strange laws, which every one of us has to enter after our death. In some cases, memory of Catherine reached many centuries BC. Are these visualizations represantation of truth? Science may doubt, but only for now. It is a challenge to science to rise and probe further. The more science probes, the more its doubts will be removed. Visualizations of Catherine belong not only to the past but, strangely, to the future also. There in those subtle worlds it is possible not only to see the past but also the future. At one of her sittings with Dr Brian Weiss, what Catherine saw of the future here on Earth is a chilling reality of today and an ominous prediction of future. She was told by a Master spirit living in the world of the Deads about our Earth thus:
“Everything must be balanced. Nature is balanced. The beasts live in harmony. Humans have not learned to do that. They continue to destroy themselves. There is no harmony, no plan to what they do. It’s so different in nature. Nature is balanced. Nature is energy and life… and restoration. And humans just destroy. They destroy nature. They destroy other humans. THEY WILL EVENTUALLY DESTROY THEMSELVES. … It will happen sooner than they think. Nature will survive. Plants will survive. But we (humans) will not…. (In answer to Weiss’s query, the Master spoke through Catherine) ..In order to stop the destruction you must reach everyone, and you cannot. It cannot be stopped. They will learn. When they progress, they will learn. … (the Master to Weiss) You know the way. We do not have to tell you. It will all be to no avail. … And all this is just lessons… and punishments."(page 159)
Imbalance in nature! large scale destruction by humans of nature and themselves! It is the depiction of chilling reality of today. Is it not? But, what about the future? Prediction apart, apply the cool logic that we understand more. Those who matter in the world, do not care for today; the reason has been made subservient to the gameplan of desires, creating enormous imbalance in nature and potential for self-destruction by humans( e.g. climatic change, outbreak of global violence generated by economic competition backed by military power etc.). This today will undoubtedly determine the comming tomorrow.
3 Jun 2007 @ 17:40 by shreepal : Stray talks: Unparalleled revolution
New Civilization, which is in the offing, would be a transitory civilization that is linked to and born out of our present civilization at the one end and at the other it melts into a society of beings who would be qualitatively higher in terms of plane of consciousness than we human beings are. This transitory new civilization would see a consciousness revolution that is unparalleled and unheard of in human history. It could be likened to the historical transitory phase of transformation of higher animals into homo sapiens. This new civilization being linked to our own present civilization would be the fructified outcome of saturated advantages of our advanced science. The new civilization would be administered through exploitation to the hilt of information technology, genetics and the science of mind with a rapid stride in parapsychology. These three fields of advancement would see a highly developed state of three aspects of homo sapiens: 1) human physical body would be highly developed ranging from disease-free state to prolonged life; here in this field Genetics would be exploited to the hilt. 2) emotional being of homo sapiens would be highly cultured and manifest in a vibrant arts of all sorts.In this respect Information Technology would bring a previously unthinkable realities into existence in the collaborative collective living of human beings. 3) logical thoughts – natural science and particularly the discipline of maths – would push mind of homo sapiens to the fringe of the consciousness that belongs not much to humans but to beings who are higher than them. All these transformations require many thousands of years if not millions to happen but now would be accomplished in mere centuries. It would be made possible simply because the knowledge of human beings does not advance arthmatically but geomatically.
5 Jun 2007 @ 17:17 by jerryvest : "New Civilization Zones," is long over
due or perhaps our planet has to be so out of balance that our inhabitants are beginning to awaken and to show some interest and enthusiasm for change. It is dangerous that we may all move into a cynical place that only offers us negative prospects for improvement or for creation of new possibilies as described by Shreepal.
For many years, I have been actively engaged with several meta-society programs and communities and have experienced many levels of consciousness from belief to despair to unity. I am still hopeful that with free thinkers, teachers, dreamers, and scientists, we can transcend this agressive and hostile corporate take-over, destruction and turmoil of our natural and human resources.
When I first observed and joined the NCN, I saw some real possibilites for us to extend our views and values so that we can organize and empower or move our humanity to a higher plane. I am still opimistic and willing to do all I can to improve our chances.
I know that science is needed for us to move to our best possibilities, overcome and move in the other direction; honor, respect and support science so that they can do their Work effectively; however, we must not overlook all of our creative creatures who keep us emotionally stable and spirited--artists, musicians, poets, dancers, photographers, actors, writers, etc.
Perhaps, if our schools begin to focus on the Arts and improve opportunities to encourage every child to find her source of creativity and expression, we can eventually overcome our cynicism, corrupt corporations and politicians, religious zeal, and other misplaced values.
Thanks, Shreepal...I hope this discussion will continue....
6 Jun 2007 @ 15:32 by shreepal : Change... change and change
One must face the hard realities and accept the world as it is. One cannot help it. It is our destiny. We human beings cannot think beyond human beings; even when we talk of some other things, we are only concerned with ourselves. It is our limitations; it is the limitation of our specific plane of consciousness, of which we are constituted. For example, our divided world is preoccupied with missile defense shield, efforts to counter such shield (RS-24 of Russia), out manovouring rival trade wars, minimizing the impact on one's nation while meeting the challenge of global warming etc. Imagine the reality, at this very moment other creatures, say a monkey and its herd, are preoccupied the same way with their "burning" problems; they are as serious and preoccupied as we; they don't care about us; and of course, we don't care about their problems. What is the difference between them and us? None. It is like, we are tied to our "personal" frame of reference in understanding things and cannot see things from another independent and different frame of reference. It is our destiny. However, there is one difference between these animals and we humen; these animals know and live their world but they do not know any of the thins we we humen know. On the contrary, we humen know and live our world and also are capable to know (and even able to live) their world also). It is because of our higher evolutionary stage. It is perfectly simple to visualize and logical to say that our next edition in evolutionary course would enable us, then, to know and live a world, which we now cannot know and live; also, then it would be possible for that new species of us to live and know that world of new perceptions (and also to sink to the lower level of we humen, if we liked,which we now live). But for the time being we are tied to our 'human destiny'. Then, what is the way out? The way out, the secret key, to transcend our human limitations is: change. But this change cannot be any and every kind of change. It has to be a change in the right direction; it has to be a change from lower to the higher; it is climbing up; it has to be difficult. This change has to to evolutionary in nature wherein we humen have to win over our natural (animal propensities) limitations and transcend them by getting victory over them. The greatest lesson of science is that we today know this truth; but still are not ready and willing to utilize its benefits in our daily life. This lesson gives us the human justification for moving ahead; for being helpful in bringing a change; for being tolerant to opponents; and understanding that all these moves are in our own interests. Dear Jerry, you rightly say,"perhaps our planet has to be so out of balance that our inhabitants are beginning to awaken and to show some interest and enthusiasm for change. It is dangerous that we may all move into a cynical place that only offers us negative prospects for improvement or for creation of new possibilities." The real need is "change" howsoever unpalatable it might be to our reiging civilization. It is possible by human beings, people like you and all of us, to guide this change along the route that is in the interest of our race -homo sapiens - and that is in accord with the natural movement from the long prespective.We have freedom: freedom to descend into the animal behaviour and world; or, freedom to rise to a higher level of consciousness. The later path is obviously difficult. But the evolutionary path has never been easy. Let us help bring this change.
13 Jun 2007 @ 06:01 by a-d : Oooohhhh my, oh my.....
I wish, Shreepal, to gently, gently -if in my power to do so- point out that the science you refer to and obviously look up to is PHONY!!!....and nothing but THEORIES that eventually all will be booted out as "INCORRECT" ( Observations, "nothing but) false theories" -just like the Earth is Flat, Planet Earth is the Center of the Universe and ALL else revolves around Earth, including the Sun. Well... it wasn't so!...
Animals are NOT "EVOLVED" as something LOWER than we! DIFFERENT , but WHAT SAYS LOWER????? ONLY the egomaniack human!... indeed a "Custom Job for Queen Victoria!...like so much of the "New Science" that showed up then... ALL CUSTOM ORDERED by "Vicky"!... including "Darwinism"... (we cannot descend to animal behavior!... we can only catch up with them IF WE ARE REALLY GOOD AT THIS CHANGE! "Different missions" are just that: "DIFFERENT Missions"!... and has NOTHING to do with Higher or Lower "Evolutionary"!... )
The Belief that you describe here, is one of those major Issues/ MISTAKES that humans, we have to CHANGE our Understanding about!
Like one of our Members says on his private web-site: Earth Worms are more 'One' with their divinity than we, humans, because THEY ("tend to ") stay 100% IN their INTEGRITY remaining TRUE to their (NATURE and) DIVINE MISSION -as opposed to us humans! WE are the ones who fell OUT of GRACE!...We DEVOLVED!!! and now -those who has eyes to see with and ears to hear with- will RE-volve BACK ( = ASCEND back to from whence we came; those higher vibrations of Consciousness = Co-creativity (together with Universe)!...)to our true identities!
The establishment and all it revers, vibrates the very lowest human vibrations, with NO OWN creativity at all -except for making abies!... but so do mosquitos and PLANTS do too! ... make babies!....
The FIRST attempt to raise into higher vibrations is the human who returns back to his/her "OWN" Creativity!... The Genius Frequency -as it is (called).
THIS is the frequency and these are the people who have come up with absolutely EVERYTHING you see in our Society/Community where creativity is involved, be it a blueprint for a highway, house, new design or even better new KIND of Bread Toaster - or a Mona Lisa in Louvre! NONE of the bureaucrats could EVER come up with anything like these things!
INSTITUTION-Thinking is totally void of ANY creative thinking -as is proved (over & over again by the Bueraucrats. Just consider what Jerry & I just discussed: that our Institutionalized "Health Care" relly isn't health care at all but SICK Care!.... Why do the Low consiousness people want to keep it this way??? one can ask. Because they made MONEY to be their "God" = their SOURCE of ("new" ) Energy. In reality; they are stealing fresh cosmic energy from anybody who is NOT so locked up to Life, but actually does receive fresh energy from Cosmos AND the crooks then take it from these second-hand sources; that would be from you & me, so speak and Nature, but making money mandatory in all aspects of life-even those that Life/"god" gave us ALL to be used for free! ( in Bolivia the crooks actually tried to get away with privatizing/TAX'ing EVERYTHING -including RAIN WATER, in order to have all people there even more enslaved -to be used by the crooks , for the crooks!... BUT they had massive revolt growing. (Finally!) Ohhh, please shreepal -and all humankind: SEE a spade for what it is : a SPADE! ; ) I could go on & on with examples... but...
There's a lot of intelligent, thinking scientists out there. But NONE of them is working for the crooks and certainly not on any millions of dollars of grant money from them!... The real scientists struggle an uphill battle with bringing more real truth into society!... just like Galileo Galilei -among others- once did...
Let's all get touched by the Spirit again! eh? : )That would make us all what is known as "Genius" ( "you're a genius" ) ALL we would have to do is to open ourselves up for Spirit again!
REvolution of CONSCIOUSNESS is what we need! THAT is the Change we so desperately need!
13 Jun 2007 @ 14:45 by shreepal : Evolution, animal & humen, lower or high
My dear a-d, in my observations under comment I referred about two facts and two scientific theories. 1) We human beings are preoccupied with our burning problems and animals also likewise are preoccupied with their ‘burning’ problems; there is not much difference between us in this respect. 2) We human beings have (mental) perceptions about many things, which animals cannot have; while it is possible for us to visualize the conceptions that animals possess about our world, it is not possible for animals to visualize the conceptions that we human beibgs have about the world. The scientific theories I referred to are: 1) There is life’s evolution in Nature; animals are lower than human beings on the evolutionary path. 2) There are many ‘frames of reference’ of observation / perception, which are independent of each other; (and we human beings seem to be tied to our ‘own frame of reference’ of the consciousness).
One can go to natural habitat of animals to witness and become convinced that they are pretty seriously preoccupied with their ‘life and death’ problems; it is just like us. This fact was discovered long ago by the well known acute observer of Nature, Charles Darwin, and enunciated by him in the first two principles of evolution: Struggle for survival and survival of the fittest. Regarding fact No. 2, can any body doubt that we humans are masters of complex thoughts, which are reflected in our ‘complex’ machines and scientific theories / laws ? To verify, just try to ‘explain’ to animals gravity, atomic structure, relativity… Is it not funny to suggest that animals are higher than us or equal to us in ‘life’s evolution ? It is obviously so notwithstanding what “one of our Members says on his private web-site about the higher level of Earth Worms because they are more 'One' with their divinity than we, humans or because THEY ("tend to ") stay 100% IN their INTEGRITY remaining TRUE to their (NATURE and) DIVINE MISSION -as opposed to us humans!”
Regarding scientific theories: The concept of evolution is amazingly so wholesome that we wonder that it was discovered so late by our science. Of course, the basic concept of evolution as propounded by Darwin has now been modified by further research on the subject. The concept not only holds good with the passage of time but it is further strengthened. ‘Frame of reference’ is the well known scientific concept of Einstein’s Relativity and it is not possible for any one with a grain of ‘science’ in his mind to dispute this concept.
I intend to continue with my observations on the comment of Dear a-d.
13 Jun 2007 @ 15:16 by a-d : I hear you, Dear Shreepal, I do!....
....IIiii walked that whole path as you do (still) and maybe even more!.... UNTIL I HAD to start re-thinking it ALL!...EVERYTHING you state here is what you have been force-fed with mother's milk already!...soooo - I know- it not easy to give it up.
But FIND OUT THE TRUTH about THINGS and you'll SEE Life -again (, as it REALLY is!... You have to dive much deeper down into the Rabbit hole! : ))
Einstein's Relativity THEORY was nothing but THEORY...which Einstein himself knew and understood as nothing but theory -to be debunked eventually AND IT HAS been debunked already "a thousand" times!... Yet he, Einstein himself, was a wonderful guy -and in Genius frequency, to boot .
He was always loving, caring and striving for ever higher vibrations /Insights! but even he expected someone else to continue the digging into Cosmic Truths even deeper and in that eventually to be debunked -sooner or later!
ALL so called Inventions we humans have come ORIGINALLY from Nature!" Sonar Systems, Hydraulic Systems, Micro waves, Building techniques used by Beavers in damm building, by Weaver Birds for their Condominium Nests etc etc... you name it!....ALL have an original and MORE REFINED PROTOTYPE in the Nature, that we eventually noticed and decided to copy -in our own clumpsy way.
Man cannot take all the components needed for a grass straw and create a straw of grass from that. ONLY LIFE/"God" /NATURE can do that! ....let alone CREATE anything "more complicated". Do NOT confuse MAKING with CREATING -any more than religion being Race -creating of humans!.... or a geographical Nation-location! Let's put it this way:
A Black person is still black even in Sweden, even if they are Roman Catholic and totally FEEL "Swedish", speaking only Swedish!.... which all can be 100 % true factual realities for this person!
"The Frames of Reference" for a bureaucrat and for a Genius, are NOT the same! The Frames of Reference for a Sage are NOT the same as for a Genius!... cause "Sage" is of higher frequency than Genius, etc etc.
Just know one thing, Shreepal; you are a wonderful, loving, caring person, and a Good Sport! : ) I totally admire you and look up to you; your Innocence & Goodness! Just give up the innocence and learn INVINCIBILITY instead! Good trade off!. : ) The Path is never ending! The Work on that Path s "never ending" as well.
13 Jun 2007 @ 15:30 by shreepal : Ascending and descending...
Dear a-d, you say
“Animals are NOT "EVOLVED" as something LOWER than we! DIFFERENT , but WHAT SAYS LOWER????? ONLY the egomaniack human!... indeed a "Custom Job for Queen Victoria!...like so much of the "New Science" that showed up then... ALL CUSTOM ORDERED by "Vicky"!... including "Darwinism"... (we cannot descend to animal behavior!... we can only catch up with them IF WE ARE REALLY GOOD AT THIS CHANGE! "Different missions" are just that: "DIFFERENT Missions"!... and has NOTHING to do with Higher or Lower "Evolutionary"!... )”
Dear a-d, what is the basis of your assertion? Do you hold science and its discoveries of any value to you? If your answer is in negative, then there is no common ground between us to proceed further and that is the end of matter so far this topic is concerned. But if science has got any worth for you then I would request you to please remember a few scientific facts: there was no life (as we know it) on our Earth initially; initially, there was single cell life; then, there evolved multi-cellular life here … There is a well known science on this subject that is taught in our school. Evolution of life is there. Evolution is a scientific concept. But then, what is LOWER or HIGHER? It is comparative term. The more complex life may be justifiably termed as higher and vice versa.What is descending of human beings into animals plane of consciousness? And, what is ascending of animals to the higher level of consciousness possessed by human beings? Again, science says: we humans were not humans as we are today; we evolved to this stage from animal stage, which we are not today. This is ascending of animals to the level of humans. And, the reverse process adopted by humans would be descending to the lower level of animals.
I intend to continue with this fruitful exercise.
13 Jun 2007 @ 17:39 by a-d : We are defintely
working on building the New Civilization right now, with our conversation! : )
I'll see what I can dig up (without spending 24of 24 8days a week ) for you to "back up" some of my observations.... "Be In The World but not OF "the World" .
"The World" = old expression meaning 'the establishment' -and its Theories of "Everything".
here are some interesting sites for anyone who wants to ponder....
To me personally the most important aspect of any subject matter is how does it define our ETHICS -if at all?
If something does not further my &/or Humankind's MORAL behaviour towards all life (outside one's own skin) then I feel there is not much value in wasting too much of my time & effort into it!...
I only discuss things like this to point out the self evident: LIFE ITself goes on, on the principle of SHARING and CO-OPERATION.
When & where these aspects of Life expression are too imbalanced, or too faulty, then there is "Trouble In Paradise" as the saying goes. When these two aspects are missing all together life will cease within five minutes! Down to minutest of life forms & living strategies sharing and co-operation is a MUST!
Imbalance in Social Everyday life is called IN-Justice.
"Ethics" whadddzthat? " "Moral /Intellectual and Physiological/biological superiority over (all) other God's Creatures!....." (paraphrazed) Hmmmmm... I doubt it.... ; )
I personally think this is the field that needs to healing and CHANGE!
14 Jun 2007 @ 14:45 by shreepal : Design versus Evolution
Yes, dear a-d, we are working to create a new civilization by our conversation. I appreciate your stand that to you the most important aspect of any subject matter is how it defines our ETHICS. Ethics - a normative prescription - is only a result, an outcome of a particular view point. It is the result of an understanding of things around us. We are human beings, rational beings, and we have to proceed to form our understanding by reason.By building our worldview on the foundation of current knowledge (science), we can proceed further to deduce our normative prescriptions, that is, ethical edicts. We cannot first take a particular ethics as correct one and then proceed to find reason for the same. However, there is another aspect to ethics. Ethics is a matter of heart and not of mind. But then there is not much scope for insisting on its justification on the basis of reason. You referred me the links that challenge Darwinism and advocate Creationism. This debate, which is now fairly old, puts the matter as Science versus Faith. We need not jettison science to prove faith as the correct viewpoint. Science stands on somewhat solid foundation and we cannot jettison science, even on ethical grounds. If we donot believe in science, we have no moral right to use its products, on which our civilization is standing in which we live. Creation by a Willful Design is correct; but then Darwinism is also correct, though as it stands modified today. Why this Willful Design cannot adopt an evolutionary method as is suggested by Darwin? Is this Wll powerless to devise and put in use a mechanism that is found, as a hard fact, by science? Evolution, not only of life but even of Universe with all the galaxies, black holes etc. beautifully supports Creation by a Willful Design.
Any way, please keep the faith up; I am with you there.
14 Jun 2007 @ 16:05 by a-d : Ohh, Shreepal,
WE ARE A TEAM! : ) I really don't give a huut about Darwin .vs anything at all; it was more to point out "how little we REALLY KNOW as opposed to what we PRETEND to know!...heheheh... silly!
To me Life is a Big WONDERMENT -and I'm pretty sure you feel the same. Yes< i agree : it is fun and thus very tempting to get into "Intellectual" discussions -and sure we need to a-maze our way out of the Maze!... : )
There's tons of good scientific things out there that will assist us in the transition and so many wonderful scientists ( I've been pretty much surrounded -and married to -them all my life!...) who can all assist us lay-people in this process. (just in case shreepal, u haven't thought about it; go into Jerry's blog and read his and my Ponderings -just about any subject matter... interesting reading -if I may say so myself...; )
One thing I want you to pay more attention to in this thread here: No scientist INSIDE the System has ever come with something sustainable! The Bureaucratic Mind is UN-Capable of such a feet. It ALWAYS in and from the frequency of Genius that any person/"scientist" has come up with anything "good" and even then BORROWED the Idea FROM NATURE = UNIVERSE/LIFE ITSELF!
We'll get there, Shreepal! We just have to take one step at the time and one broom sweep at the time in the cleansing effort. : )
( I personally can't wait to master (genuine) Teleportation!... : O
See around, Kiddo, then, heheheh.... unooowwhaddimean, eh? : )
15 Jun 2007 @ 17:05 by a-d : from Ming's Blog:
".... Life is complex, biologically, socially, culturally. The most awesome stuff that exists is complex. The universe, evolution, eco-systems, art, adventure, human culture in general, and the human mind.
That same human mind is at a crucial point in its evolution. We can consciously think abstractly. But not very well. The part of our mind we're conscious of, and that we usually identify with as "me", typically has an extremely inflated idea of its own worth and its own independent existence. That despite that it can only solve extremely simple problems, and it doesn't even know how. It over-simplifies everything, and it tends to think it is in charge.
That simple mind is also the wonderous faculty for paying attention and appreciating life, and for consciously discovering the mysteries of the universe and of human existence.
But when the simple mind gets stuck in the idea that it is in charge, and one of those simple minds end up commanding armies of millions of men, and huge economies, guiding the lives of billions, we're quite a bit in trouble. When the simple mind doesn't accept the complexity that brought it about, and it actually believes that its simple ideas are facts, and it tries to act accordingly, then we're in a lot of trouble.
Yes, tyranny is when powerful rulers decide that the complexity simply is unacceptable, and it tries to control it, deny it, wipe it out. When a small group of people agree on a small list of small ideas as being the correct ones, validated by nothing much more than the voices in their heads, life is in danger. Doesn't matter much if their ideas are religious or moral or economical or political. It is the denial of the fundamental complexity of things that turns it into tyranny.
What saves us is often that those simple minds make many mistakes and miscalculations, so eventually their schemes fall apart. But it might take a while, and it is hard to predict what they take with them on the way down...."
Read the rest of this GREAT Article there: The article is called: "Denial of Complexity"
10 Jul 2007 @ 16:21 by shreepal : Life is complex...
Dear a-d, thanks for the enlightened comment on the subject under discussion. There has been delay on my part in reponding to your comments because I was enjoying my tranquility away from the wired world. The quotes by you from the Ming's Blog are the factual reality. Life is indeed complex, with all that it is comprised of, individually and collectively. And, still these things are very much ordered and precision-oriented, though we very often are unable to understand this precision. This is inability or deficiency only on our part. This reflects the lower level of our - human beings' - evolutionary stage. We are sure to understand better this clockwork of Nature with the passage of time; and this is evolutionary march. This simple fact - fact of evolutionary nature of our understanding - teaches us that we should not be fundamentalist, the rigid one, in our attitude. Again thanks and I apologise for the delay on my part.
28 Aug 2007 @ 08:44 by shreepal : True democracy, current need of mankind
The goal is to advance mankind collectively at the rapid pace towards her destination, whatever it might be. To anable this to happen, mankind has three elements to fall back upon: huaman resource, which includes human beings and their knowledge of science and technology available today; machines and tools made available to them by this scientific technology; the best co-ordination of these two elements to produce optimum result to the benifit of collective mankind. Mankind benifits by this co-ordination in the form of having goods that help her in lessening her hardship in their struggle against Nature, which does not yield easily in giving rewards of this struggle. These rewards are reflected in their standard of life. What could be this best co-ordination? One way is to allow individuals, who are actuated by the sole motive of earning profits to get maximum comforts, to take initiative to bring together the elements for production of these goods in the maximum productive mode. There could be another way also. It could be to allow mind's planning to bring these production-elements together in the best productive mode. This planning can be done by people in a democratic manner, that is, by the people out of their free choice. It is a hoax, which is of sufficiently long standing now, that such planning can only be done by a dictatorial regime. It can be done in a more efficient manner in a democracy, provided there is true democracy. What is true democracy? It is self-governance of people where the will of the people is faithfully expressed and allowed to work. Today, such true democracy is possible by the use of the available (information) technology. To make this happen two things are required: firstly, use this technology to elect people's representatives and to replace them constantly; and secondly, educate people, and particularly educate them in science, so that they can take an informed decision about their genuine welfare. Today's international agenda should be: reform democracy - use the information technology for human-self governabce. If people are empowered by the use of technology they would take care of themselves and of their best interests. With the help of today's science and technology there is no reason for the unemployment, poverty, ignorace, diseases and social-conflicts to exist on earth today; these today are mostly the signs of our improper use of the aforesaid three elements at our disposal. We wrongly associate the glitter of our modern civilization to the industry and foresight of a few (a few in the face of the multitude of mankind) champions of private initiative. This glitter only belongs to our science and technolgy, which is harnessed only in a limited manner because of the inherent limitations of the nature of private initiative. Science and technology could be put in a more efficient way and better productive mode by planning by mind than by these few leaders. Such planning of production would be more benificial to mankind and more glittering in appearance.
1 Oct 2007 @ 13:26 by shreepal : Development, progress and planning
What is planning by Mind? What is planning by Desires? There is a general direction along which the human society is moving ahead. The signature tune of this direction is the humans struggle against Nature and their efforts to make this struggle less arduous and more result-yielding, which we call development and progress. This general direction may also be called the goal of human evolution. There is this goal, which constitutes one element in planning things by humans. Then, there are several factors, which are parts of another element in the planning, that may be arranged inter se in different combinations. These factors include man-made socio-economic relations of humans in the given society and natural resources available therein. And, then there is another element. It is the governing principle that dictates the pattern of this arrangement of the factors. This governing principle determines the "specifics" of manner of arrangement in service of this evolutionary goal. If the governing principle is Mind, it is planning by Mind. If the principle is Desires, it is planning by Desires. There is also a principle that is higher than Desires and Mind and things in society may be arranged in its light, which would be better than the things arranged in the light of Desires or Mind. But the himans collective consciousness today has not reached at the stage where things arranged in the light of this higher principle may be acceptable to them. All this classification is from the relative point of view of human consciousness, which has a concrete reality and is of great importance for the future of human beings in their physical existence.
4 Oct 2007 @ 16:12 by a-d : ...and exactly WHAT
in the described approach (the "Developm.etc-Comment ) has been good -as in Life affirming/supporting??????...In other words, what (would you, Shreepal) suggest we keep of this old approach and what should we dump?...-or should we keep it all, but go on like we always done, so to speak, or should we discard it all???
I would love to hear a a little more "Hands On" examples and suggestions... not quite so deadly clinical.Did you BTW see the links I provided? Here I repeat them, because IMHO, they are great!.People ARE doing Things....FROM the HEART!
25 Oct 2007 @ 11:51 by shreepal : Progress: Affluence versus well being
a-d thanks for the great query. Let me put the whole thing in my own way. Each passing day is nearing us a new civilization; constant change in Nature is the law of universal application, much like we hear of scientific laws, say the law of conservation of energy. Pointing out this natural principle is not a great discovery but it is really a discovery of significance to point out that the humans have a decisive capability and role to determine the direction of this change. But this discovery is also an old one. What is new one in this respect is this: today given the totally new realities of critical importance (like earth environment, nature of wars etc.) it is the humans who are decesively in control today of this universal change, in so far as it relates to our earth. Therefore, we owe a duty, individually at personal level and collectively at the social level, to move to ensure that these rapid changes are not allowed to happen in a drifting manner, which is the case today. In am talking in the global context. Then, what exactly is to be done? We have to realize and fight for certain things of critical importance. The first thing to realize in the context of development, which I referred in my comment, is that the direction of this change - of this progress - is not to create a society of affluence but of well being. It makes a lot of difference to gear the society towards generating wealth or gearing it to secure human well being. I have seen the links you provided and i found a lot of people are doing wonderful things in the right direction. We need to support them and give them a helping hand. Such people are sowing the seeds of a new civilization that will bear sweet fruits one day. In fact, we are nearing a step towards the new civilization with each passing day by the work of such people. There will not be a single day when we open our eyes suddwnly in a new - better - civilization. It is happening just now in the midst of current things, amid the stumbling sour odds and freshingly sweet things spurring the awaiting moment.
7 Nov 2007 @ 16:38 by shreepal : Meaning of progress in New Civ.:
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15 Nov 2007 @ 12:57 by shreepal : Let Integral Wellbeing Index be adopted
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13 Jan 2008 @ 12:47 by shreepal : How to hasten NCZs ?
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18 Mar 2008 @ 10:13 by shreepal : Life aplenty around us Let science find
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