|MMMark's Whycandoo Room: Namasté = Respect|
15 comments8 Jun 2003 @ 00:38 by jazzolog : Thank You Mark
Of course the handy devices we build to help control each other's ethical behavior are called governments, something humans never seem to have been able to live without. Be that as it may, and what you say certainly is true, I wish you would stop by Shakti's Log to add a comment or 2 at the current entry. I know you're tired to this kind of stuff, but your history with and insight about the site certainly could be valuable at this point.
Wonderful to see you, buddy---and hope you crank up the IM again one of these days. Call upstairs to Martha too---about checking in here sometime today.
I gotta go to Cincinnati later with Ilona and a few busloads of kids. To the new Reds stadium though! Hope I can catch some sleep on the bus. :-)
July 11th - Shakti's Log has been disappeared, so never mind the reference to it above. In fact "Shakti" has a new name now too, in celebration of impermanence. I like this entry more now, Mark, from my current more detached perspective. Thanks. ---Richard
8 Jun 2003 @ 01:03 by waalstraat : Mirror
You reflect my feeling and thoughts on this matter perfectly...It seems so authoritarian to develope an elaborate structure (on a network committed to try developing a new and more just civilization) in order to induce members to act decently with each other...
8 Jun 2003 @ 09:30 by craiglang : I wonder..
...sometimes whether rancorous discussion is an indication that the discussion is becoming very meaningful. It suggests to me that whatever topic is being discussed is touching something close to someone's heart. This can have both up and downsides - but perhaps the upside is that there is the potential to get some very meaningful work done.
The note on respect is very important (thank you for that). If we keep this in mind, I believe that discussions here can be a great lesson in harmony-building. If we are to live in a post-conscious-emergence society where each of us is psychically much closer to eachother, this is something that we need to learn more about (first person included).
IMHO, NCN is a great forum for exploring this - learning new ways of sharing info and view - and making a few mistakes in the process. But all in all, I see this as a good thing. The way to learn is to explore all the paths. Many of those lead to the wrong place, but others lead to the right one.
So thanks to ALL on NCN, regardless of views and styles.
8 Jun 2003 @ 19:45 by vibrani : comments
From what I've experienced and seen at NCN, it's not exactly about finger pointing and self-defensive justification, although it can easily look that way. I think it's more about those who do take self-responsibility having a hard time dealing with those who do not. I have seen that time and time again, and it's frustrating. There are two ways to look at turning the other cheek - your version, and one that says you get two cheeks slapped. Personal choice there. I'd rather walk away than get slapped twice. I wonder what you consider some of our laws if not what is considered ethical behavior in public? I'm not arguing with you, but I do think that even though a portion of the population may know what's right and wrong, not everyone does, therefore there are guidelines and laws. Do not steal, do not kill, etc. The internet seems to be exempt from most laws and decency because people think they can hide behind their computers or handles and never have to face the people with whom they interact online. Therefore, perhaps we need some new sets of suggestions for behavior. I don't think there should be any difference how we treat people on the internet or in person. Craig - I enjoyed reading your comments. Thanks.
9 Jun 2003 @ 08:40 by craiglang : Behavior...
Nora, interesting note. Open to suggestions as to how to go about doing that. In each forum such as NCN, It seems to me that there are at two (or more?) levels of discussion. One is on the content - the issues being discussed. The other is on the process itself - the rules for conducting the discussion. This sounds to me like the latter, and it appears to be an excellent point - How to define commonly accepted rules of the road.
Maybe that's the next step in the experiment - the next step in the evolution of the discussion. This could be some of the meaningful work of building a new civilization - and perhaps it is a way in which NCN could pioneer the way to a new civilization. Neat food for thought.
9 Jun 2003 @ 11:38 by mmmark : Conduct
My post breifly addresses the issues of conduct. There is no reason for us to be anything but courteous and responsible in our postings. Everyone knows how to be pleasant and so we should be, even when faced with frustration or an opposing perspective to our own beliefs. Namasté is offered in the observation that Cosmic Spirit is present in all of us and everything - everything a miracle - everything connected - everything interdependent. And so I respect your divinity and my dependence on your health when calculating my actions, often called common courtesy.
I don't think we should forget how may scirmishes have arisen because of flaming and bashing a member's character, which has nothing to do with the content of the member's post, or the purpose of the post on NCN. If this is a place to exchange ideas, then we should expect to post knowing that we don't have all the answers and being open to learning more about the subject at hand.
Thanks to all for your comments.
10 Jul 2003 @ 18:07 by magical_melody : Thanks Mark!
Well, I appreciate your log and writing. I am awaiting a book called 'Spiral Dynamics' - originally heard about it thru B. Hubbard's site, and then yesterday Max and I met a very resonant gentlemen who had suggested reading it along with another title from Ken Wilber, 'The Theory of Everything.' Interesting stuff!
The first book deals with how we can value and address the varying levels of strengths that all divergent peoples bring, as it talks about human development: proceeding through 8 states called memes: (basic stage of development that can be expressed in any activity) Memes or states are not rigid levels but flowing waves, with much overlap and interweaving, resulting in a meshwork or dynamic spiral of consciousness unfolding. The model appears to somewhat coincide with the Chakra colors and meanings in one sense, and also it appears to take a similar stance in describing the basic survival pyramid of Maslow and yet moving it upwards into an advanced consciousness spiral. It addresses evolutionary aspects that we can track and utilize in working with various ways people perceive reality and communicate. [link]
Also the second book by Wilber, and integral theorist, is a good reference as he refers to and writes about Spiral Dynamics, along with an 'all quadrant' all level approach, for integrating the realms of science and religion as well as a discussion of integral transformation practices as it relates with politics, goverance, medicine, business, education, etc. I think it wise of us to consider these and others systems, theories and practices, so that we can open to new ways of perceiving reality and communications which can assist us in coming to relate with one another in more integral and whole ways. Let me know what ya think? [link]
******An afterthought: Why waste time and energy Mark? You get to make up the rules that work for you here! I respect your choice to set your sacred space and communicate only when you feel inspired. I know that when we follow our hearts, the people and the resources will be there in support of us and our path.
10 Jul 2003 @ 20:46 by vibrani : To each
hir own. Some people are into structures, models, memes, and others are into feeling and experiencing them without needing to categorize them; others can appreciate studying structures and experience them. I don't know how that will effect how people talk with one another at NCN.
Anyway, Craig and Mark - I agree that we can be kind and responsible in our postings. That is what I wish we could all be. However, not everyone is kind, nor responsible, nor wants to be. Not everyone is empathic. Everyone "knows" how to be pleasant, but for some people it may be false at times, and could be a real stretch (which can be good for growth). Let's face it, there are also some people just don't care about anyone else.
I've been at NCN since 1995 (with a year off) and throughout these years I have suggested some ways of more effective communication - most people were laughed at them, and some actually gave it a try for, oh, about an hour, and then reverted back to their old ways. My suggestions were much like Mark's: be responsible, compassionate, respectful, honest, stick to topics and not personal attacks, no one has to agree with anything and that's not an open invitation to abuse. The flack I got from people was that they saw that as being too structured, not free enough for them. Seeing that, I just don't know if there's a way for everybody to agree to some set terms - unless the wilingness to change is there.
People who grow up in religious families are taught the commandments, yet how many people really live by them? They're not impossible to live by. And these are "rules" from supposedly the Almighty one, and if THEY aren't respected...well...you know what I'm getting at. We're all on different vibes.
Here's an example of something that happened this week: did you read about those Iranian women Siamese twins joined at the head who had the surgery to separate them - and they died during the surgery? I felt they might not survive this surgery, but I was pulling for them because they wanted it so badly and deserved the chance to at least try to have separate lives. After they died, I read a report at CNN from Iran and those supporting these Muslim twins. They thanked all Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, but NOT the Jews for their prayers. It's like Jews couldn't be included, couldn't possibly have prayed for these twins. They could have just thanked everybody who prayed for them without excluding some people. It pissed me off to read that. What nerve to make such an assumption and exclude only the Jews from the major religions mentioned, especially when Islam evolved out of Judaism. We're not on the same wavelength, and sometimes it really sucks.
My goal is for more and more of the world to become metaphysicians, then I am sure we'll be at the place where we can communicate in the way we're desiring (as discussed above). By the way, metaphysics doesn't mean devoid of emotion. One can be emotional and passionate, but doesn't have to be hurtful.
13 Jul 2003 @ 01:10 by simpleman : CHOICES!!
IMHO, life is about the choices we make everyday, for each choice we make dictates and leads to the next choice. We react to choices others make, and they react to choices we make. The choices we make also dictate who we are.
When I look back to growing up I see myself blaming everyone but myself for alot of bad choices I made. Choices that made my life very difficult and hard. Somewhere along the line I made a good choice, and then another, and slowly I saw my life getting better, or at least easier. I also started to realise that certain choices I made led to a positive result, thus I've learned to have more control of the choices I make. I no longer ask myself what I want to be, or what do I want to do. Instead, I say to myself what I don't want to be, or what I don't want to do, and somehow this leads me in the right direction.
Its very easy to get frustrated or angry when participating in some of the newslogs. If I start to feel those emotions I have to say to myself, I don't want to be mean, or I don't want to sound stupid by saying something I'll regret later. It makes me think about the choices I'm making. I don't always make the right choices, but I take responsibility for them all. If you think about it, we make alot of the same choices everyday, day in and day out, and if even one of those choices is different, it can change the rest of the choices thereafter. Choices are a learning device, and lead to change.
Great to see you participating, even if it is short-term
16 Jul 2003 @ 01:27 by vibrani : Yes - choices
I am with you 100% on choices, Simpleman. And that means being aware that some people might make choices that are not so well thought/felt out, some act on impulse and reaction, not response-ability - and they may not care how that lack of consciousness effects others. Hopefully, that will decrease and caring will increase everywhere.
Question - was your last comment to me, or someone else? And if it was for me - what do you mean by "short term?" Thanks.
16 Jul 2003 @ 06:12 by simpleman : SHORT-TERM
was referring to Mark, and his choice to post less frequently.
16 Jul 2003 @ 13:06 by vibrani : Ah - thanks!
16 Jul 2003 @ 13:19 by b : Mark
I think this is your best post so far.
18 Aug 2003 @ 13:16 by jeffolsen : Choice
I believe that we should not judge others by their actions. In doing so, we limit them and we limit ourselves. We are the sole judge of our actions, through the vehicle of FREE WILL, which is why we need to take responsibility for our actions. Appreciate that others make mistakes, and do not blame others for your own. Responsibility is necessary for happiness. Questioning is necessary for truth. Understanding is necessary for harmony. Objects are necessary for subjects. We are both. Life is meant to be enjoyed. Further your purpose. It's an expression of creation. Help others further their purpose when you can. Unity. I am going to change the world. I am already changing it. So are you. Love everything. Everything is an expression of the nothing from whence it came. Peace
31 May 2004 @ 01:07 by ov : One year later
and this subject is just as current now as when this article was first posted. Except perhaps that this latest Venus transit is forcing people to deal with issues that in the past they might have suppressed. There have been some interesting topics lately on dialogue that have addressed how to deal with and work through issues rather than simply suppressing them. An amusing story of eating somebody else's cookies comes to mind. :-)
I'm not sure if I ever did thank you Mark, for introducing this place to Alana, who in turn introduced me to the place. If not thanks again.
Other entries in Projects
3 Oct 2008 @ 02:43: What 4
31 May 2004 @ 00:13: Memorial For America
24 Dec 2003 @ 18:22: Seasons Greetings
2 Dec 2003 @ 15:12: Shared Purpose
22 Jan 2003 @ 20:59: Doers & Democracy
10 Jan 2003 @ 14:47: NEW STYLE THINKING
22 Dec 2002 @ 13:22: Wonderful Winter Holidays To You
4 Jun 2002 @ 02:13: Relationships
16 May 2002 @ 04:02: Thanks For Telling Me
12 May 2002 @ 23:53: Tell Me About Me