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jazzoLOG: Bummed Out By Thursday |
Category: Diary 13 comments
19 Jan 2006 @ 16:13 by nraye : Better fed people 19 Jan 2006 @ 19:13 by vaxen : Jazz... Examine the real issues. You are being buried by smoke and mirrors. THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is a privately owned, for profit, British Corporation and all of its' laws are 'copyrighted' in Britain by British LAWMAKERS! You've been looking for news in all the wrong places. Yeshua confronted the 'Money CHangers,' too...and salvation does exist in the Mosaic Law. ANother way of saying 'Mosaic Law' is 'Law of the Sea or Law Marchant. Of course it is also known as the ancient Babylonian system of Commerce Law. The real COnstitution of this once proud land (pride leadeth unto a fall) is simply sumberged under 'color of law' courts which can, and are being, be dealt with via the UCC which was accepted by all states in 1964. FIghting the right battles in the wrong courts can only get you a judgement of 'FRIVOLOUS!' THE UNITED STATES incorporated in England in 1871! Oh, I've got the facts and know the 'Remedy' too... Ask Jesus about it... 19 Jan 2006 @ 19:25 by rishi : There is no such thing as "news" There's no such thing as "news" on the television, as you so well pointed out. In a media that is owned by a now small handful of billionaires, the perceived need of those who run the media is to tell as little as possible. At least, they tell as little MEANINGFUL information as possible. In any hour-long "news" program where world events are covered in five minutes or less, followed by ten minutes of commercials, 15 minutes of sports, 15 minutes of weather and a smattering of local "news" trivia, what you get is something desgined to look like it's saying something, when in fact it isn't. The "news" is actually the "olds" (as in "same-old") that has become an institution of disinformation, misinformation and lack of information. You can learn more through the use of simple logic in 60 seconds, than you can with 60 minutes in the mass media. 19 Jan 2006 @ 23:47 by vaxen : The ''News'' os promarily Psy Ops or Psychological Operations against the enemy which is YOU! Yes, you the American people were declared as enemies of the State. You may not know that and you may not even care but if you do then you must study the real source of all the hullabaloo and how we got this way. Also you must know that there is a REMEDY available to get out of the system of the 'Beast' and reclaim your sovereignty. The REMEDY is in the same LAW OF COMMERCE that has been holding this world at bey for many thousands of years. You can't win by applying the right laws in the wrong courts and vice versa. FOr an interesting 'journey' into things as they are: In 1832, the Supreme Court of the State of Pennsylvania very ably addressed the meaning and intent of the 7th amendment in the case of Bains v. The Schooner James and Catherine, as follows: "...by attempting to introduce the admiralty jurisdiction of the civil law, ... a foundation is laid for interminable conflicts of jurisdiction between the courts of the State and the Union." "It is vain to contend that the Seventh Amendment will be any efficient guarantee for the right, in suits at Common law, if an Admiralty jurisdiction exists in the United States, commensurate with what is claimed by the claimant in this case. Its assertion is, in my opinion, a renewal of the contest between legislative power and royal prerogative, the Common and the Civil Law, striving for mastery; the one to secure, the other to take away the trial by jury, ... judicial power must first annul the Seventh Amendment, or judicial subtly transform a suit at Common Law, into a case of Admiralty and Maritime jurisdiction, before I take cognizance as such a case as this without a jury." Thus, Admiralty is Civil Law, and, once again, Common Law is not accessible in courts of Admiralty -- and, as J. Reuben Clark said: there is a constant ideological conflict between Civil and Common Law for the control of society. In the preface to his book "Honest Money", Dr. Norburn wrote: "What a marvellous country was this new world -- AMERICA. Its coastline, dotted with deep harbors, seemed endless. It had great mountains and great rivers. There were magnificent forests and vast fertile plains. Its earth was rich with minerals. Those who came to live in this veritable paradise were of sturdy stock. They were industrious, saving and ingenious. They had the best government ever devised. How does it happen that now, after more than three hundred years of intense toil, the inhabitants of this nation find themselves more than ten trillion dollars in debt? They have received no benefits to justify this debt. To whom do they owe it? How were the claims acquired? As you will see, the factual answers to Dr. Narburn's questions, and proper application of the appropriate law to these facts, provide us the necessary fact and law to build a winning case that can restore our access to Common Law; and can restore our allodial land titles. INTRODUCTION OF THE GEORGE RAPP SOCIETY: First Successful communistic, religious, organization in the United States. The society was designed for profit making (for some) and its formula included a controlled economy under limited liability, which, as you will see before this rresentation is over, is the same ingredients of the Federal Reserve formula that is running this country today! This is the formula that brought admiralty inland and has barred our access to substantive Common Law. from: [link] Find out WHO YOU ARE relevent to the SYSTEM that is in place. THe LAW of the SEA (Admiralty Law/Civil Law) as opposed to COMMON LAW. It's all British anyway. Yup, all copyrighted 'over there.' Good luck. [link] PS: Don't think that the politicians who are feeding off the lies they have deceived you with are ever going to let the cat out of the bag either. Hang them! 20 Jan 2006 @ 07:43 by vaxen : Addenda: 1. The Civil War was fomented under the slavery issue in order to bring the US under control of the Bankers. When President Jackson vetoed the renewal of the Charter of the Rothschild’s Second Bank of the United States in 1838, America no longer had a foreign owned, paper-money “central bank.” This was an intolerable situation to the banksters, but was rectified by their initiating the Civil War under the pretext of slavery. The real reason for the War was to conquer both North and South, with the victor being Washington, DC. Once having conquered the free and independent nation States via the Civil War, one then had merely to capture Washington, DC to tie up everything into one neat package. 2. To centralize power whereby iron-clad rulership could be exercised by one man in a jurisdiction owned by the banksters, all that was required was for the President, in the role of Commander in Chief of the military, to be given the legal position to rule everything via Executive Orders (fiat/dictatorship). If such is established in a jurisdiction of Martial Law wherein all law is suspended due to the “emergency”, then all that is required thereafter is to own the office of President. A crucial aspect of this occurred on March 27, 1861 when seven southern states walked out of Congress leaving the entire Legislative Branch of Government without a quorum. The Congress of the Constitution was dissolved because of an inability to disband or re-convene. Lincoln then issued an Executive Order in April 1861, re-convening Congress at gunpoint in Executive, emergency, martial-law-rule jurisdiction. Since that time there has been no dejure Congress and everything has functioned under color of law through Executive Order under authority of the War Powers, i.e. emergency, i.e. law of necessity. The “law of necessity” means no law whatsoever, as per such Maxims of Law as: “Necessity knows no law” (for example, the law forbidding killing is voided when done in soft-defense). “In time of war laws are silent.” Cicero. 3. In order to establish the underlying debt of the Government to the Bankers, and at the same time to create corporate entities that were legally subject to the jurisdiction in which they existed, and creating the jurisdiction itself correctly, the so-called (fraudulent and unratified) Fourteenth Amendment was proclaimed as passed in 1868. This is a cestui que trust incorporation in a military, private, international, commercial, de facto Jurisdiction created by, and belonging to, the Money Power, existing within the emergency of the War Powers, the only operational jurisdiction since the dissolution of Congress in 1861. Through the 14th Amendment, an artificial person-corporate entity-franchise entitled “citizen of the United States” was born into private, corporate limited liability. Section 4 of the 14th Amendment states: "The validity of the public debt of the United States [to the Bankers]...shall not be questioned." 4. Within this private jurisdiction of the International Bankers, the private and foreign-owned “Congress” formed a corporation, commercial agency, and government for the “District of Columbia” on February 21, 1871 (Chapter 62, 16 Stat. 419). This corporation was reorganized June 11, 1878 (Chapter 180, 20 Stat. 102), and re-named “United States Government.” This corporation privately trademarked the names: “United States”, “U.S.”, “US”, “U.S.A.”, “USA”, and “America”. 5. In 1912 when the bonds that were floating the US Government, owned by the Bankers, came due and the Bankers refused to re-finance the debt, the colorable, martial-law-rule Congress was compelled to pass the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. This Act surrendered (re-delegated what was exclusively delegated by the Constitution) constitutional authority to create, control, and manage the entire money supply of the United States, and handed it over to a handful of private, mostly-foreign, bankers. This placed exclusive creation and control of the money within the private, commercial, foreign, and military jurisdiction of 1861, in corporate limited liability. Passage of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 also set up the country for a great depression. By definition, a depression is an economic condition wherein there is not enough money in circulation relative to the amount of products available for sale. In terms of the Law of Supply and Demand (where “demand” implies willing and able buyers), the supply was there, but the demand was greatly diminished by a lack of cash to manifest the demand. According to some scholars, “The Great Depression was scientifically engineered by the owners of the Fed [The Federal Reserve.] simply by increasing the reserve requirement of lending banks from 20% to 25%” [i.e. the banks had to have more money on deposit as a percentage of outstanding loans in order to make new loans]. This severely restricted the availability of loans and caused a catastrophic domino-effect in the economy. 6. Through paying interest to the Federal Reserve Corporation in gold, the US Treasury became progressively depleted of its gold. America’s gold certificates, coin, and bullion were continually shipped off to the coffers of various European Banks and Power Elite. In 1933, when the Treasury was drained and the debt was larger than ever (a financial condition known as “insolvency”), Franklin Roosevelt proclaimed the bankruptcy of the United States. Every 14th-Amendment “citizen of the United States” [everything was already set up!] was pledged as an asset to finance the Chapter 11 re-organization expenses and pay interest in perpetuity to the creditors (i.e. the Federal Reserve Bankers) on the “national debt” (“which shall not be questioned”). With the Government’s bankruptcy, “law” became “public policy”, i.e. Federal Reserve Reinsurance policy. Now operating exclusively within the jurisdiction of corporate limited-liability insurance, the Federal Reserve switched its requirements 180° and foreclosed the possibility to pay interest in gold, requiring payments on the debt and reorganization to be made with FRNs. Ownership of gold by the bankrupted, conquered citizens, made into the enemy by the Amendatory Act of March 9, 1933, was made “illegal” by Franklin Roosevelt’s Gold Proclamation (The Decree). Thereafter, the Bankers set about confiscating as much of the private gold as possible, gold that hadn’t already been shipped to the European Federal Reserve Banks as interest payments on the FRNs printed into circulation. After 1933, FRNs became increasingly unbacked, until Richard Nixon closed the silver window and removed the final vestige of backing in 1968. [link] 20 Jan 2006 @ 11:05 by jazzolog : My Motives There's nothing quite like waking up to a fresh harvest of NCN comments. Thank you friends, as your unique perspectives are more crucial to my balance than certainly the headlines are! Anything from you 3 is a treat to receive. Nicola always sees the big picture so brilliantly...and reflects it likewise. How wonderful to know her! I'm trying to imagine Dick Cheney a vegetarian. It feels a little like levitating the Pentagon [link] . Now about the news---and I have only a couple of minutes I'm sorry to say before I have to get to work~~~ My father was a newsman on the radio---among the other things he did in broadcasting---and I was collecting and writing local radio news by the time I was 16. It was a great job and it created in me a love of journalism. I was aware, even then, the rich and powerful could create and kill stories. I watched Fulton Lewis III come into my hometown, raid our school libraries, and broadcast his nightly Mutual commentary from the station I worked at. He was looking for "dangerous" and Red books. He succeeded in forcing the resignation...and eventual early and tragic death...of our superintendent of schools, the father of a good friend of mine. There are different kinds of journalism...and Sean Insanity at Fox is carrying on the killer kind. I care about a free press...as much as I do free speech. It's what we're about. I despair when the people seem to be stupified by the terror of the times. I always wondered how Germany could be led by those mad Nazis in the 1930s...but I wonder no longer. I have only to look around every day. While I often feel hopeless about America these days, I still must try to sound the alarm and hope for wakefulness to return to my country. Thank you for the refreshment you folks at NCN offer! 21 Jan 2006 @ 23:38 by Quinty @68.230.135.75 : John Conyers is fighting the fight, along with several other Black and Progressive Caucus members in the Congress. And it's curious, isn't it, that barely a word - if any? - has appeared in the mainstream news media regarding the basement hearing Conyers held Friday on the NSA scandal. Now why was that? Could it have been too controversial? Boring! Tainted with a leftwing partisan bias? More a pain to the newscasters than the story was worth? Why? That a small group of Congressmen believe the executive, the president's behavior has been sufficiently illegal to warrant an extraordinary hearing in the basement of the Capital - doesn't this merit some coverage? Since the issue they are concerned about is the preservation of the Bill of Rights? Maybe just a peep? 15 Feb 2006 @ 10:21 by jazzolog : Democrats Shoot Themselves URL: [link] Rollingstone.com Democrats Can't Hackett Maybe Dick Cheney can't shoot straight, but at least he didn't shoot himself in the face. Sadly, you can't say the same for the leadership of the Democratic party. Chuck Schumer, Harry Reid and Rahm Emanuel have not only strong-armed Iraq War vet Paul Hackett out of the Ohio senate race, but out of politics altogether. [link] And for what? To give Eagle Scout Sherrod Brown a clear shot at the Senate?! Yes. OK. A messy primary is less than ideal as a precursor to a must-win Senate showdown. But if Sherrod is really the top Democrat for the job -- if his name truly is "gold" with Ohio voters -- shouldn't he be able to prove that through, you know, an electoral process? What does it say about his electability that top Democrats felt it necessary to play king-maker and shield him from his popular, populist competition? Whatever bruises Brown might have picked up in a spirited primary, they're clearly better than the self-inflicted damage the party suffers by knee-capping the most colorful outsider in politics today -- and alienating Iraq vets nationwide: "For me, this is a second betrayal." Hackett told the NYT. "First, my government misused and mismanaged the military in Iraq, and now my own party is afraid to support candidates like me." "It is an outrage that the Democratic Party has forced Hackett out of the race," adds Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America PAC director Jon Smoltz. "Hackett brought credibility on the number one issue facing the nation -- the war in Iraq. The Democratic Party loses credibility on that issue because he is no longer running, and because they had a hand in his decision." Mike Lyon, director of Band of Brothers, which has been recruiting Iraq War vets as candidates told the Times: "Alienating Hackett is not just a bad idea for the party, but it also sends a chill through the rest of the 56 or so veterans that we've worked to run for Congress. Now is a time for Democrats to be courting, not blocking, veterans who want to run." Paul Hackett was the best story the Democrats had running. He was the general leading the upsurge of "Fighting Dems" -- whom the national media is already gushing over as principled patriots who speak their minds, keep their promises and don't back down from challenges. Now, Hackett's gone. Not because he lost in a fair fight. But because the Democratic establishment equipped him with concrete shoes and tossed him overboard. Somewhere, Karl Rove is laughing. Posted Feb 14, 2006 3:15 PM 15 Feb 2006 @ 18:47 by Hanae @69.33.46.10 : I am gonna become a Republican I've had it. I have honestly HAD IT. When I cast my vote, it goes to a republican anyway, so why keep up the pretense? Now the DLC thinks it would be a mistake to challenge Bush's wiretapping: link The way our primaries are rigged, we may end up with this loon as a candidate for the POTUSSY (hehehe) in '08. The fact that Bush is circumventing our court system to remove any oversight whatsoever from his wiretapping 'powers' should be enough for them to KNOW that it's wrong. I'm sick to my guts of politicians who take oaths of office, but apparently have no intention of fulfilling those oaths. I give up. You can't talk sense into a turnip. I've been fighting the ignoramuses at the DLC for so long I'm tired. Hell, give me more Red Devil - it hurt less. No - I've decided that since I live in a republican state, I need to change my political affiliation to the GOP, so I can call the rightwing crazies up that I've got representing me and tell them I'm a republican constituent who is concerned that if someone doesn't do something, the democrats may wind up with the ability to spy on Americans, totally free of any oversight, whatsoever. I figure that if the GOP can do such a good job of infiltration and total annihilation of the democratic party, people like me could gang up and infiltrate their camps, too. Difference is, that there are more of us than there are of them. Heck, I've got some real nutcase representatives I can call. If I were a republican, I could really stir some things up. I honestly do think it would be easier to talk sense to Tom Coburn than it would be to waste my time with 'democrats.' ------ Is that sad, or what? No, that was not me talking, lol, though I can relate to the frustration of the author of the article. Someone had emailed me that bit a couple of weeks ago, I am not sure what the original source was, but here you have it, I thought the piece would make a good follow up to the "Democrats shoot themselves" comment, above. 15 Feb 2006 @ 19:40 by Quinty @68.226.88.25 : I agree with Hanae Why take the dangerous route by being a Democrat when you can be a Republican and everyone will love you? What we need before the Capital is a Bonfire of the Vanities. Throw in the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, page by page, Magna Carta and the Declaration of Indpendence plus all the books, writings, letters and speeches of Tom Paine, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, David Hume, Voltaire, Sir Francis Bacon and any other rabble rouser who originally poisoned the air, directly or indirectly, of our young nation. So, hurrah for the DLC! We'll show those Republicans we can be just as popular, patriotic, god fearing, and All American as they! 16 Feb 2006 @ 10:59 by jazzolog : Re: Democrats Shoot Themselves I hope you gentlemen don't mind if I create a composite reply and something of a forum here. The condition of the Democratic Party power structure is of concern not only locally, but around the world. The Whealey family is a distinguished asset of the Athens community, as are the Sheaks. Bob Sheak is Professor Emeritus of Anthropology and Sociology at Ohio University. From: "David Whealey" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 4:56 PM Subject: RE: Democrats Shoot Themselves >I agree with your sentiment that Democratic esablishment makes a mistake >when it tries to weed candidates out before a primary. Hackett would >probably have been a better candidate against DeWine mainly because he is >more centrist than Sherrod Brown which you might expect since he was member >of US volunteer military. I was planning to vote for Sherrod Brown because >he was more liberal and because he could claim to have more political >experience as Congressman and Secretary of State. I skimmed an article in >In These Times which compared Brown to Hackett. > > David J. Whealey > Athens OH 45701-1515 There's a political adage in this country that goes, "When the status quo is driving you nuts, vote for the other guy no matter what and boot the bums out!" That approach doesn't always work as we saw in 1980, when the rank and file of the Labor Movement embraced Ronald Reagan because of inflation created during Carter's administration (I say DURING, not by that administration). Not only did Reagan beat Carter, but he brought in the first Republican-dominated Senate in a quarter century. The real looting of the nation began then and there. Reagan's first official act, of course, was to bust a union over an air traffic control job action...but still the working man continued with his change of faith. Now those guys who still have any job at all...and those who don't...disillusioned with politics altogether, have joined the Ghost Dance that is the fundamentalist megachurch movement. Nevertheless, all that having been said, I'm likely to have voted for Hackett in the Democratic Primary, because he was such a fresh and independent voice. From: "Robert Whealey" To: ; "Dana At PeoplePC" Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 4:41 PM Subject: Re: Democrats Shoot Themselves "Dear Dana and Richard, "This article is an over-reaction. I heard both Hackett and Brown give their stump speeches. Their stand on Iraq, Iran and the Middle East were practically the same. The issues are more important than the personality. I helped Hackett get votes in his Congressional district when he ran against the Republican Schmidt. "I'm now behind Brown, and Hackett has to ask himself is he a sore loser?" Robert Whealey Historian To whom did he lose, Bob? The voters? When you're passed over on the job, not because of what your ideas might accomplish in the future but because the other guy looks more "company" than you do, you get sore...and rightfully so. From: Robert J. Sheak To: jazzolog@peoplepc.com Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 9:11 AM Subject: Paul Hackett "Dear Jazzolog, "I would be reluctant to support Hackett over Brown and am happy that Pual Hackett has withdrawn from the Ohio Senate race as the Democrat to oppose DeWine in November. I don't know much about Hackett except from what I heard him say at the Community Center a few weeks ago and from some of his information on his campaign website. "My impression is that Hackett did better than expected in a House race over in the Cincinnati area. Paul explained his success in that race principally as a result of his policies on 'privacy,' namely, that the government has no right monkeying in the private affairs of citizens with respect to gun ownership, reproductive choices, and sexual orientation. I don't recall him discussing the NSA snooping, but he may well support the critics on this point. His appeal in the House race probably had a lot to do with the seven or so months he spent in Iraq. Beyond that I'm not sure what he stands for. He wants to fix healthcare, make us 'energy independent,' keep jobs in Ohio, get Osama, win the hearts and minds of the Iraqis, end rampant cronyism and corruption in our politics (and did he suggest that we should let Israel take care of our 'Iran' problem?), and so on. There are positions here that I think I could support, depending on how they are developed, but there is little substantive policy yet, mostly just a set of goals. Would he be a progressive or a Clinton-big-business centrist? He does appear to support a strong military and strong (militaristic?) foreign policy. To the extent that Ohioans oppose the Iraq occupation, Hackett might have run as a symbol of that opposition, though, as I say, I'm not clear what his exact policy is. He might have garnered some support from this and from his opposition to gun control. "Anyway, Paul Hackett is rather inexperienced and he has yet to articulate his policies in a substantive way. He would have done well to run again for the House. "Brown has a long progressive record and has the support of many liberal groups and unions. He is a member of the Progressive Caucus in the House. If there is any hope for genuine change from Washington it lies with the relatively small groups of progressive Democrats in the House and Senate (and Bernie Sanders). Brown has a record that can be scrutinized - and it is exemplary. None of this means that he can beat DeWine, but nonetheless his record and campaign offers us a well-established progressive option on the war, military spending, taxes, Social Security, Medicare, corporate welfare, reproductive rights, opposition to an imperial presidency, support for progressive judges to the federal courts, support for labor law reform, support for diplomacy and international law as priorities in foreign policy, raising the minimum wage, support for a 'fair' trade policy (he published a book last year on the Myths of Free Trade), a desire to reign in the power of corporations, environmental policy (he has an exemplary voting record here), and so on. "I think you too easily dismiss the candidacy of Brown and may be caught up in the idea that for some reason Hackett represents a breath of fresh air and new and progressive dynamic in the Democratic Party. Perhaps. And I'm not convinced that either of them could beat DeWine. But I am persuaded from what I know that Brown offers a record and alternatives that are worth supporting." Bob Sheak I have no beef, Bob, with your thoughtful (as always) analysis of Brown vs. Hackett---or of either of them against DeWine, especially in Ohio where we don't even have a process of election that everyone has faith in. At Hackett's presentation here in Athens, my question to him was based on the loss to the Democratic Party of the working man and woman, a constituency historically strongly Democratic. Since he had given evidence of his appeal to such voters around Cincinnati, I wanted to know what his plan was to get such people back on board through the rest of the state and nation. His reply was he supports owning a gun. Maybe that's enough to get 'em back, but it's not enough to win my wholehearted support. Rebuilding a workforce in America to the point where it can share in private and public administrative decision-making is a daunting task. If people in this republic don't even see a problem with the hierarchy of kissass cronyism that has replaced a more representative approach to negotiation on the job, I think we're doomed. When people think of the '60s, probably we tend now to hearken back to a degeneration of cultural values. If any of that was true at all about the decade, it took place toward 1969...and on, alas, through the '70s. In my view, the 1960s was a period of incredible exploration and opportunity, especially in civil rights, political participation, and representation at the workplace. New thinking in veritably every field of endeavor was begun...but not completed. The 1970s should have been a time of careful building, but the thread was lost and opponents overthrew us and immediately diverted funding. I don't think the answer to survival lies in sucking up to those guys. The point of the Rolling Stone article was not in dissing Sherrod Brown. (I know they called him an eagle scout.) [link] The thrust of it was about the confiding Paul Hackett did to the New York Times in telling them it was the Democratic Party who asked him to quit. Is it a coincidence that at the same time Eric Fingerhut stepped aside for Ted Strickland in the gubernatorial candidacy? As the result, reigstered Democrats get no choice in the primary...which is the only way most of us have any voice in the direction of that political party, unless we each work our way into the affections of the party hierarchy. You do that by volunteering, schmoozing, and giving lots of money. I understand there are factors of realpolitik at work here. The Democrats want to look unified. Political debate has become something like the spat going on yesterday between Petro and Blackwell. Infantile. At the same time everything about campaigning is so expensive, they don't want to waste any money on a primary run that could go into the election itself. We all know the Republican coffers are full of corporate welfare money. I understand that, but it's pitiful. Increasingly in our politics, the regular guy (and nonbeneficiary of all those tax cuts) is being denied any voice at all in what goes on. Then he's blamed for apathy...and at the same time commanded to stand up for patriotism as his civic responsibility. Nope, it's the process of election that is my civic responsibility...and the denial of a primary choice is one more step into corruption. Thanks for the replies, gentlemen, Richard 16 Feb 2006 @ 21:04 by jazzolog : Defending The Democrats Thank you those who are replying. I won't continue to pepper with birdshot the emailboxes of those who do not. If you're interested in keeping up with this discussion without comment, let me know. (I do this blind-copy thing at the request of a couple of recipients.) I'll stay out of this right now, except to say this: I understand politics is accomplished in the "back room"...or the board room, golf course, hunting trip, but I'm looking for a political party that at least will stand up to oppose it or confess it. Because the Republicans win with these techniques and lobbyist bribes doesn't mean the rest of us need to copy them. I like open debate and the flying fur of the primary. It's how we can clean out the back room. Or at least empty the ashtrays. From: "Carolyn Fisk" To: Cc: "David Whealey"; "Robert Sheak"; "Robert Whealey" Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:14 AM Subject: Re: Democrats Shoot Themselves >I was sorry to see Hackett quit on such a note, but if you will notice, > republicans seldom have contested primaries and they win in the > general. I think that's what we all want. Nobody ever talks about what > goes on behind republican doors to eliminate candidates (or rarely), but > you know there's arm twisting and worse than what the democrats did this > week. For once, the dems seem to have a strategy to focus resources and > maybe WIN in the fall. This is an election of immense proportions, as > the party that holds the state this year will probably te the ones to > control the next round of redistricting. Hackett just hasn't learned > the political process yet, and it isn't always pretty. Carolyn Fisk From: "News Room" To: Cc: "Robert Sheak"; "Robert Whealey"; "David Whealey" Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 9:11 AM Subject: Re: Democrats Shoot Themselves > Can I jump into this issue? Here's a reply I sent to professor Steve > Hays, who's angry about Hackett being forced out of the primary race. > Plus I'll add something about Hackett's supposed great electability at > the end. > > Steve, sorry if I sounded glib last night, but I can get pretty wound > up about this issue, too. I'm a realist, and just think it's impulsive > and reactionary to give up on a good candidate, Strickland, and the > preferable party, the Democrats, based on routine behind-the-scenes > political positioning. Backing the preferred party candidate, and > pressuring the other guy to get out before the primary, is an American > tradition that goes back decades and decades. I don't see anything > wrong with it, if its motive is to position the fellow with the best > chance of winning as the nominee. In this case, I think Brown is > clearly the superior candidate in terms of manner and style, > experience, electability and knowledge of the issues. Moreover, I > believe Hackett, by "cutting and running" the way he did, illustrated > exactly why he would have been a lousy candidate and senator. All he > showed me, by petulantly "quitting politics forever," is that he wasn't > suited for it in the first place. > > II guess I'm still pissed at the Naderites' self-indulgent reasoning in > abandoning Kerry two years ago. By blithely ignoring the massive policy > and character differences between Bush and Kerry, and following their > "hearts," they opened the doors to the most incompetent and dangerous > presidential administration in the last century. In my mind, that was > stupendously irresponsible, and showed either a lack seriousness or > knowledge about the actual issues we elect these people to decide upon. > -- terry > > With regard to Hackett having a better chance of winning than DeWine, > I think this is just naive. Have you all read some of the things this > guy says on the record. He pretty much came out and told all > evangelicals to f--- off, and is unapologetically in favor of gay > marriage. I feel the same way, but I sure wouldn't boast about my > positions on these issues if I had any expectation of running a > competitive race in a state where "values" issues decided the last > presidential election. Evangelicals and the religious right, who are > wary of DeWine, are just looking for some reason to put aside their > doubts and back him. Hackett would be that reason. Plus as Joe Klein > suggested in his recent Newsweek column, Hackett doesn't have anywhere > near the knowledge of the issues that Brown has. It's a "where's the > beef" situation that Dems would have regretted. -- terry > > Terry Smith, editor > The Athens News > 740-594-8219 > Main e-mail: news@athensnews.com > Alternet e-mail: editterry@yahoo.com From: Robert J. Sheak To: jazzolog@peoplepc.com Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 11:19 AM Subject: Re: Democrats Shoot Themselves Dear Richard, I am sympathetic to your responses to this controversy. My understanding of the confusion over who was going to run in the Ohio Democratic Primary comes from Sherrod Brown's response to a question on the matter at his presentation here on campus. Brown said that when the Democratic leaders first asked him to run for the Senate seat, he was embroiled in serious family problems, including the serious illness of some family members and other issues. He turned them down. Subsequently, Hackett approached Brown and asked him to run his campaign or be a major person in it. Brown declined Hackett's offer. Then the problems in Brown's family improved and, when approached by the Democratic leaders again, Brown decided to mount his Senate campaign. As I have argued, I think that Brown is a fine candidate, has many years of political experience, and has a wonderful voting and political record. That does not mean that he, or any other Democrat, can beat DeWine, but he is a worthy candidate and deserves our support. Hackett says that he withdrew his candidacy because the party leaders asked him to withdraw. But, if Hackett really has a mission and really believes that he can best appeal to voters across the state and beat DeWine, he should not have withdrawn. During his presentation at the Community Center, Hackett mentioned that a key fundraiser from the Howard Dean campaign was working for him. Hackett was optimistic about his ability to raise funds. Why then did he need the support of a few Democratic leaders? The Democratic Party is not a totalitarian organization. And perhaps Hackett would have been a relatively strong candidate - "fresh and independent" face and all that. Perhaps his military experience in Iraq, his opposition to any gun control law, his emphasis on having a strong military, would have overcome the Religious Right's objections to his support for choice and gay rights. Perhaps. But on many other issues that are important to Democrats and other citizens, he is a blank slate. And ,if elected, it is unclear how he would deal with the complexity and corporate influences of Washington. If the fact that the Democratic leaders asked Hackett to withdraw from a primary in this Republican state where there is so much at stake, if this is enough to alienate some people from the Democratic Party and from the Brown candidacy, if Brown's record is irrelevant, if only "centrists" who waffle on key issues or who have no political record, and who feel a need to placate those with radical rightist views can be elected, then that is, ironically, politics as usual. If we aren't able to strengthen the progressive voice in the Senate and House, then there is no reason to be hopeful that we will ever be able to confront the multiple crises before us - the trade and budget debts, the militaristic foreign policy, the shredding of the safety net, the health care mess, the disregard for labor law or labor law reform, the corporate-biased trade agreements, the erosion of environmental laws, global warming, the need for genuine campaign finance reform, and so on. Bob From: "loiswhealey" To: ; "Dana At PeoplePC" Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 2:34 PM Subject: Re: Democrats Shoot Themselves > Here is another Whealey. I agree with son David. Brown has the political > experience one should expect of a Senator. > Besides, why was Hackett so overly ambitious? He would have had a really > good chance to unseat Jean Schmidt, I think. > Lois whealey 17 Feb 2006 @ 09:24 by jazzolog : What Is The Democrat Message? There have been a few comments over the past several hours to this little forum, but perhaps most have expressed their positions and we may leave it at that. Some of you know Bryan Clark, up in Columbus. Hopefully when he puts his thoughts together on this issue, he'll include us...or let us know where he posted. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Clark" To: Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 4:56 PM Subject: RE: Democrats Shoot Themselves > Keep me in the loop. I am in the (un)enviable position of having served as > Paul's Field Director for the Senate campaign. It is interesting to see > what folks outside the Hackett-sphere think of this move. I have my own > thoughts, but probably should wait a few more days before sharing them more > widely... Robert Whealey, OU Emeritus Associate Professor of History, had this reply for us...or for me, I guess~~~ From: "Robert Whealey" To: Cc: "Terry Smith"; "Lois Whealey"; "Robert Sheak"; "David Whealey" Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 5:32 PM Subject: Re: Democrats Shoot Themselves > Dear Richard, > > You say, "I'm looking for a political party that at least will stand up to > oppose it or confess it." Ministers, Rabbis and Priests, philosophers and > historians can do this on an individual basis. > > Politics is a collective activity. "It is the art of the possible." > Politicians seek power, but they cover themselves with some morality. The > voter always has the choice of voting for three or four top issues and > avoiding all of the sin which goes on in the "smoke filled room", or should > we say-- in the bar room. > > I never thought Hackett was a saint, he was simply a better choice that > Mike DeWine, who seems to be a clone of George Bush. > > Robert Whealey > Historian Well, I guess it's unrealistic and careless of me to expect "a political party" to admit it plays backroom politics and uses "kingmaker" techniques. I'm not alone, however, in feeling increased devotion to 3rd party temptations, and was very impressed with how the Greens continued the fight long after the Democrats caved to prove a corrupt election in Ohio in 2004. Paul Hackett showed the same kind of straight-from-the-shoulder candor that David Cobb did, I thought, and the willingness to fight beyond what the big party bosses had to say. While I realize the Greens are "inexperienced" too, especially with Wall Street, the military-industrial complex, and the other secret groups of world domination, many voters feel we have to start somewhere. After Kerry, with whom most of us on the Left never were satisfied, we're going to have a much harder time keeping our votes in the Democratic column. To Bob's comment, faithful, fearless and tireless Democratic worker Carolyn Fisk had this to say~~~ From: "Carolyn Fisk" To: "Robert Whealey" Cc: ; "Terry Smith"; "Lois Whealey"; "Robert Sheak"; "David Whealey" Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 5:37 PM Subject: Re: Democrats Shoot Themselves > I'm looking for a party that shares most of my values and also WINS > elections. Sometimes the process isn't what we want, but I want my guys > to WIN. Carolyn Fisk Yeah, and that's what's going to be hitting 3rd party candidates again in 2008. Why then can't mainstream Democrats anticipate and work directly with the mounting dissatisfaction here in the grassroots? I know Howard Dean is out there, but does he really speak for your local Democratic Party leadership? Who feels there's any unity or direction in the Democrats right now? The whole country is waiting for someone besides John Conyers to make a move! George Buddy has one of the interesting blogs I try to check everyday [link] and he's one of the people outside the state who's listening in to this conversation~~~ From: George Buddy To: jazzolog@peoplepc.com Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 5:43 PM Subject: Re: Democrats Shoot Themselves Richard, being at a disadvantage here because I'm not in Ohio! I've spent a lifetime in the state legislature in PA. Assuming there's a similarity in all politics, all I can say is that things have gone down hill in that period of time say 1972. Money makes everybody very conservative! But the conversation is interesting with all those "professors" so keep 'em coming!!! Bill Price is too~~~ From: "Bill Price" To: Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:24 PM Subject: RE: Democrats Shoot Themselves > I'm following the discussion, but not commenting. Keep me in the loop. > > Bill Price, > Sierra Club EJ Resource Coordinator, Central Appalachia > 922 Quarrier Street, Suite 304 > Charleston, WV 25301 > Phone 304-342-3182 > Fax 304-342-3183 > Cell 304-389-8822 > E-mail bill.price@sierraclub.org Come to think of it, we have the start of a wonderful little coalition right here! Enjoy the long weekend folks! Other entries in Diary 5 Jun 2008 @ 10:00: What To Do In The Belly Of The Beast 7 Mar 2008 @ 09:59: Energy Efficiency Makeover: One Homeowner's Story 24 Dec 2007 @ 08:25: A Child Is Given 19 Aug 2007 @ 11:07: Heavy With Child 17 May 2007 @ 09:45: We've Changed Earth's Climate: Now What? 1 Mar 2007 @ 10:27: Episcopal: The Way We Do It 5 Dec 2006 @ 10:05: Alone And Angry: If Bush Were In AA 3 Sep 2006 @ 10:02: Pictures And Prose For 9/11 3 Jun 2006 @ 08:31: John Tagliabue: Last Words 12 Mar 2006 @ 22:28: Search For Tagliabue, Poet
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19 Jan 2006 @ 10:34, by Richard Carlson