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jazzoLOG: The Day John Kennedy Was Shot |
Category: Projects 36 comments
19 Nov 2008 @ 07:33 by vaxen : . 19 Nov 2008 @ 11:01 by ursula : My memory I was 11 years old and at school. Our teacher was crying and told us the president had been shot, then she dismissed us for lunch. We waited in line at the cafeteria trying to understand what had happened and what it meant. It was unbelievable - as kids we thought no one would dare harm a president. Who would do this, and why? We were sheltered from violence where we lived. We went back to class after a quiet lunch and our teacher told us the president had died. We were dismissed early that day and went home to a shocked world. The next day we sat at home, mostly quiet, eyes glued to the television. Everything had changed. We now knew evil existed. What would happen to our country, and the world? Nobody knew, but it didn't feel good or right. Sadness, anger, confusion, questions. And then there was LBJ swearing in on the plane. Surreal. Nobody was safe. 2001 showed the same thing about physical safety, the safety of a nation. But that doesn't include the spirit, unless we allow it to. 19 Nov 2008 @ 18:13 by jazzolog : We Did Know It Magazines and papers on the Left, like Progressive, were carrying articles well before 1963, complaining about our presence in Indo-China. We were there in assistance to the French, who were being thrown out by the indigenous folk. When the French left and the place was renamed Viet Nam, for some godawful reason we stayed on. Who could figure out a reason...except it was a good launching pad against China? As with many colonial situations, civil war broke out, we were caught in the middle, and opted to oppose Ho Chi Minh. Our "troops" were called advisors by JFK, and they weren't supposed to shoot at anyone. The Left felt all of this was ridiculous and were relentless in opposition. Then came the cul de sac: an American soldier was wounded and he put in for a Purple Heart. Until then only soldiers in actual combat got that medal. Kennedy had to decide whether an "advisor" qualified. I think it was resolved that advisors could get them too. If the situation was more serious than all that, and Vax was involved in some sort of commando deal---I suppose that would have been CIA stuff, and our soldiers were there just to cover for shenanigans. Given the operations in Cuba, it wouldn't surprise me if Kennedy didn't know the full story. I'm convinced Eisenhower didn't know what was going on in the name of his own government---and things only could have gotten worse. The Military/Industrial Complex speech came much too late. Rusyn's perception of evil in the world was an advanced vision. Most of us young adults didn't think it was that bad. Craziness yes, and of course conspiracy theories emerged immediately. We still had trust though, and so believed the Warren Commission would figure it out. The Kennedy government had encouraged personal and individual involvement. The idea of the Peace Corps was thrilling. It's amazing how the evolution into bitterness and despair has proceeded in these 45 years...but completely understandable. Obama wants to be the President who turns that around---and I must say, as so many have, the feeling in the midst of the rallies does feel like those old days. 19 Nov 2008 @ 18:36 by ursula : I wasn't so naive to think that there was nothing wrong or bad in the world, though. I knew about the Holocaust and visited other countries and saw extreme poverty, I also saw old movies. But, the JFK assassination brought it all home, to America, and we thought we were immune from it in our time. Everything seemed to be going so well, and then... 19 Nov 2008 @ 20:45 by quinty : Beautiful piece Jazzo...... My quibble is with the next to the last line. "Running" the world is an old imperial idea. We, of course, would do it for the world's good. Aren't we, after all, the people who liberated Europe? Brought the Soviet Union to its knees? The benefactor and model the rest of the world envies? We live by many myths. The Neocons were looking for an excuse to establish American hegemony in the middle east. How many military bases do we have all over the world? I forget the number, but it's in the hundreds. What is our so-called "defense" budget now? The figure keeps shifting. Even if it is only 500 billion it remains far more than what is needed for national "defense." It is, in truth, a war budget. All empires have always seen themselves as “benefactors.” Accepting the “white man’s burden,” spreading religion, bringing civilization (with the sword?) to the “undeveloped” world, on and on. That is one lie that hasn’t been buried yet in the United States. Will Obama do it? I think that is hoping too much. But if he does, then he will take a place alongside Roosevelt and Lincoln. 19 Nov 2008 @ 20:57 by quinty : Much to my disgrace I was late in opposing the Vietnam War. No matter what's going on there always intelligent people who see through the lies. They're often in the minority, though a large one spoke up against the Iraq War as it approached. Our "establishment" supported it much as the "establishment| has always supported American military adventures. We make that mistake over and over again. "The troops will be home by Christmas." (How many times has that one been said, including Iraq?) We are there for a just cause - fill in the blank. Our national security is at stake - well, yeah, economic perhaps, benefiting who? Now Obama appears to be preparing to get in deeper in Afghanistan. We have been there seven years now and are actually losing ground. Will escalation work (how many times have we heard that one too?) or will Afghanistan be, as some pundits have said, Obama's tomb? 19 Nov 2008 @ 22:05 by quinty : Maybe some fools who wanted to escalate in Vietnam were like me. They believed in the "domino theory." And bound by Cold War logic believed they had to "contain" Communism. What's more, the idea that little guys in black pajamas could whump the most powerful military on Earth was commonly accepted as wild fancy. We apparently didn't learn our lesson: not regarding Iraq at least. And this latest folly has interestingly exposed many rightwingers who still believe we should never have "lost" in Vietnam. Well, yeahhhhh, we could have won. If we had bombed the bejeezus out of Vietnam and turned it into a parking lot we could have won. But who really believes, even to save American face, that would have been worth it? Apparently some VFW and American Legion gung ho types like John McCain do. 20 Nov 2008 @ 00:33 by ursula : forget it removed 20 Nov 2008 @ 03:56 by vaxen : . . 20 Nov 2008 @ 10:58 by jazzolog : Wow! When Vax pours it out like this, he cannot be surpassed. Merchants and druglords go back a long way, hand in hand. And what haven't we done to protect their trade routes? I suppose all civilizations have been the same about getting and spending---and tribes too. Thank you for tying it all together. I wasn't in touch with Quinty during his military period, and never talked about it with him. I heard rumors though, but couldn't conceive what in the world could be going on with him. Here was a guy the FBI came to visit me about regarding his conscientious objection to shooting one's enemies with guns. Thanks for writing about it here, buddy. I don't speak for any teeny segment of the minority of my generation that protested stuff. But I don't look upon us and myself as having been naive. We called it idealistic. Now there's a term I haven't heard in years! Believe it or not, there is a strong philosophic history for idealism. I wonder if it would be good for me to look some of that stuff up now and read it again. 20 Nov 2008 @ 18:51 by vaxen : . . 21 Nov 2008 @ 16:36 by jazzolog : The Enraged Stinkbug And His Vice Prez A final shot in the dark hours~~~  21 Nov 2008 @ 21:38 by vaxen : . . 22 Nov 2008 @ 11:10 by jazzolog : This Day It was about 12:30 p.m. on this day in 1963 that President John F. Kennedy was fatally shot while riding in a motorcade in Dallas, Texas. The Warren Commission published a report concluding that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in shooting the president, a conclusion that less than half of all Americans believe. Don DeLillo wrote the novel Libra (1988) about the Kennedy assassination, and he wrote, "What has become unraveled since that afternoon in Dallas is ... the sense of a coherent reality most of us shared. We seem from that moment to have entered a world of randomness and ambiguity." [link] 22 Nov 2008 @ 15:30 by a-d : This day.... 1963.... I remember it as if it was "Yesterday"... and we, anyone of us, old enough to be out of our diapers, remember where we were, what we were doing, whom we had around us etc, that Fateful day, when the World (at large) lost its Innocence... 22 Nov 2008 @ 19:11 by vaxen : . . 22 Nov 2008 @ 20:26 by vaxen : . . 23 Nov 2008 @ 14:55 by jazzolog : Confronting Delusions Beware the Military-Vaxen complex! Typical therapy and ordinary medication do not touch it...as if this resentful soldier of fortune ever would seek help along those avenues. Such people, so in need of a gun to solve the problems of the playground and living room, hardly can be expected ever to hold down a job with the rest of us. Do they succeed with and accept the daunting responsibilities of lasting relationship and nurturing family? With his impressive credentials of education at Google U, if nowhere else outside of military and/or intelligence training camps, he has little to do all day but sit at his computer and kibitz. He's the heckler at nightclub ringside, 1-, 2-, 3-drinks too many, who ruins the evening for the performer and everyone in attendance. No wonder Club NCN is vacant and for rent. He can empty a room like nobody's business. I probably should advise him resentment is like taking poison, expecting everyone else to die. But I do follow his advice in spite of the attitude. It's a rare day that I don't take out after my colleague teachers for what they're not doing. They usually reply their hands are tied by administrators who increasingly dictate the content---which is all mapped out from On High (where the money is) to meet the Test Requirements, written by employees of contractors, who may or may not have won bids from even higher administrators---some of whom may have connections to textbook companies. (Surprise, surprise!) None of those employees has a teaching degree. They're editors, scribes, hired at random. So why don't you teachers and principals protest like bloody murder? Why be herded like sheep...just like those Germans 70 years ago? "Huh?" they look up blinking. Maybe at least we've learned how Nazis solidified their power. Get ready: there'll be a test on this in 2 months. Meanwhile, here's an assignment...from Friday's San Francisco Gate~~~ Tuning out the braindead megaphone David Sirota, Creators Syndicate, Inc. Friday, November 21, 2008 If you're having trouble remembering what the recent election was all about, rest easy: you're probably not going senile - you're likely experiencing the momentary effects of brainwashing. For weeks, your television, newspaper and radio have been telling you America is a "center-right nation" that elected Barack Obama to crush his fellow "socialist" hippies, discard the agenda he campaigned on, and meet the policy demands of electorally humiliated Republicans. This is the usual post-election nonsense from the Braindead Megaphone, as author George Saunders famously calls our political and media noise machine. When George W. Bush wins by 3 million votes, the megaphone blares announcements about a conservative mandate that Democrats must respect. When Obama wins by twice as much, the same megaphone roars about Democrats having no mandate to do anything other than appease conservatives. It's confusing, isn't it? We hazily recall backing Obama and his progressive platform. Yet, the megaphone's re-educative shock treatment aims to wipe away that memory and conjure eternal conservatism from our spotless minds. Luckily, we have polling to maintain our sanity. Public opinion surveys show most Obama voters knew the Illinois senator is a progressive when they cast their ballots - and those votes for him weren't just anti-Bush protests, they were ideological. According to a post-election poll by my colleagues at the Campaign for America's Future, 70 percent of Americans say they want conservatives to help this progressive president enact his decidedly progressive agenda. Sensing the enormity of these numbers, Obama seems ready to back a "big bang" of far-reaching initiatives. "We can't afford to wait on moving forward on the key priorities that I identified during the campaign," he said in his first radio address as president-elect. Based on advertisements, Obama identified no more important priority than guaranteeing health care for all citizens. As the Campaign Media Analysis Group reported, he devoted more than two-thirds of his total television budget to ads that included health care themes. Consequently, a Pew poll found 77 percent of Americans said health care would be a decisive concern in their presidential vote. The moral case for universal health care is obvious. In the world's richest country - in a country that builds lavish sports stadiums and showers Wall Street with trillion-dollar bailouts - 18,000 people die each year because they lack health insurance. We permit this annual massacre while our wasteful system exacerbates our debt and saps our economic competitiveness by forcing us to spend more money per capita on health care than any other nation. That said, if morality alone prompted solutions, this problem would have been addressed long ago. Overcoming inertia on such a thorny issue requires budget pressure - which Obama definitely faces. While some claim the deficit should preclude bold health care legislation, it's the other way around. The Congressional Budget Office says America's fiscal gap is "driven primarily by rising health care costs," meaning a fix is an imperative. "People ask whether (Obama) has the fiscal breathing room to push health-care reform," economist Jared Bernstein told the Washington Post. "He doesn't have the fiscal breathing room not to do health-care reform." Additionally, as with everything in Washington, a political motive is needed for action - and even conservatives acknowledge Democrats have such a motive when it comes to health care. Fifteen years ago, Republican strategist William Kristol warned that the Clinton administration's universal health care proposals represented "a serious political threat to the Republican Party" because, if passed, they "will revive the reputation" of Democrats as "the generous protector of middle-class interests." As we all remember, Democrats failed to capitalize on the health care opportunity. But Kristol's prophecy was correct then, as it is now. With huge Democratic majorities in Congress come 2009, only the Braindead Megaphone is in Obama's way. David Sirota is a fellow at the Campaign for America's Future and a board member of the Progressive States Network - both nonpartisan organizations. To comment, go to his blog is at www.credoaction.com/sirota. © 2008 Hearst Communications Inc. [link] 23 Nov 2008 @ 15:16 by vaxen : Ad hominem... the ad hominem. Google U? The Democrats have NEVER been the 'protectors' of anything but their fat wallets and big government spending at lemming taxpayers expense. Not ever! Same goes for the repomen, ah - republicans. The party of one is a two faced spawn of the hydra. Edutainment has created what with all it's much lauded impeccable credentials? Poverty in abundance both of mind and body for countless 'unwashed' and useless eaters. In a hundred years what use your Harvard degree? What use your MIT? Will you be around to gnaw at the root? Growing older, I love only quietness: who needs be concerned with the things of this world? Looking back, what better plan than this: returning to the grove. ---Li Po Now clickable: [link] Sig heil to the one world order. Instead of Saddam Hussein we'll have Barack Hussein being controlled from on high. The remains will be the same, though. The Opium triads grin, the bear dances, the eagle crows. It's a brand new day for Henry Mueller as the sun shines down on the tinted town of gathered gloom and leaves of brown... Where night winds howl through the churchyard gate and all the dreams of shadowland wait. 23 Nov 2008 @ 16:11 by quinty : To the lover of quietness..... I detected the blood rise for an instant as you took your swipe at teachers. Perhaps it had a copper taste on the lips, offering the thrill of a rush of audacious power to intoxicate you for that instant? Now, now Vax. Asking you to be nice is as futile as applying reason to the snarling barking dog next door. You can't merely go up to the dog as it snaps and growls and jumps at the fence and reasonably ask it to quiet down, take it easy, or, most of all, ask it to simply respect its neighbors. It's just not in the nature of a dog to behave reasonably or civilly like that, no more than it is in yours. So you appear and you make noise and you insult here and insult there and bark and cry and howl up at the moon. And the more commotion you create the more you like it because there is nothing, absolutely nothing, anyone can do. It must all be the copper in your blood which feels so warm and good, leaving a nice proud taste, adding the red in your eyes. So the lips snarl open, the teeth drip foam, and out come the words: “Treasonous dupes! Scum! Blind ignorant fools!......” And you wonder why anyone recoils? 23 Nov 2008 @ 23:41 by vaxen : Hope... ``Needed social reassessment [link] . . . can be encouraged by deliberate civic education that stresses the notion of service to a higher cause than oneself. As some have occasionally urged, a major step in that direction would be the adoption of an obligatory period of national service for every young adult, perhaps involving a variety of congressionally approved domestic or foreign good works." - Zbigniew Brzezinsky Barack Obama [link] The Naked Emperor [link] Now where have I heard that before? [link] 24 Nov 2008 @ 16:26 by Quinty @68.9.133.5 : Into Holocaust denying too, Vax? [link] 24 Nov 2008 @ 20:07 by vaxen : Of course, Quintibus, don't you? The holocaust industry is big business. I favor small business such as 'small arms' business. The Red Cross has the real numbers. I suggest you check them out. But watch out for when your mythos begins to crumble and you speak about it to your friends then will come the thought police to get you and take you to the new gestapo's headquarters to silence your inquisitive mind once and for all! (And the thought police this time around are ... Jewish!) You couldn't handle the truth if you wanted to Quintybus... Toben was freed. That's a step forward. Someday the truth will be known by all and no amount of lobbying will prevent it. So gloat on whilst ye may...haberdasher. "If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all." -Noam Chomsky 24 Nov 2008 @ 21:25 by Quinty @68.9.133.5 : Well, there's more How's 'bout this on that same site? [link] For those of you who would like to swap tales about UFO abductions,sightings, picnics, jaunts, mighty drunks, space flights, hotels, spas, travel tips and vacation destinations...... 25 Nov 2008 @ 00:10 by vaxen : When more... is, somehow, sadly less. Rense has been touted as a dissinformation specialist, but he still has some interesting articles from time to time. Fortunately the real world isn't as cut and dried as governments, and corporations, would like it to be. [link] 25 Nov 2008 @ 01:28 by a-d : We all know.... ...that President John F.Kennedy was murdered ("assasinated) right in front of our eyes--and three more people were hit by a bullet --or was it indeed by just one --and the same bullet??!!?!?!?...as the OFFICIAL ; Warren Commission would have you to believe!... 45 years down the road still big bruhaaa "how" it all happened. We are ALL expected to be "Good Citizens" and (so to speak) "buy" -as in "swallow the OFFICIAL Story and shut up and stop questioning!... ("How DARE you question "The Official Theory"?!?) [link] [link] google more if you feel for more "entertainment"! Who here is ready to buy /swallow hooks, baits n' all this One Bullet Theory/ Story? Quinty??? Anybody (else? ;) .... ) Wise Men have always known a little of this n'that about the "nature" of the most power hungry control needy Pillars of the "Establishment"/Mainstream part of the World... that is why they so often made the point: QUESTION EVERYTHING!!! 25 Nov 2008 @ 06:50 by vaxen : . . 25 Nov 2008 @ 08:52 by jazzolog : $7.7 Trillion Genie Out Of The Bottle "The convention which framed the Constitution of the United States was composed of fifty-five members. A majority were lawyers not one farmer, mechanic or laborer. Forty owned Revolutionary Scrip. Fourteen were land speculators. Twenty-four were money-lenders. Eleven were merchants. Fifteen were slave-holders. They made a Constitution to protect the rights of property and not the rights of man." : Senator Richard Pettigrew - Triumphant Plutocracy (1922) Auto makers and union guys sent packing, with demand for a "plan" (hybrids, electric cars coming down the line not a plan?) and complaint about corporate jets. Citigroup walks in Friday evening and leaves with a check. Did they even have to appear in Washington? If so, anybody wonder if they took public transportation? Is America shocked or stunned at the nature of the financial bailout? It seems most people seem to oppose it or aspects of it. But the noise of protest isn't very loud. Are banks really more important than manufacturing? 25 Nov 2008 @ 17:04 by vaxen : . . 25 Nov 2008 @ 19:38 by a-d : The last Seventy Years.... that's how it's been!...."....just turn the other cheek. Once they smack that too, you'll be down for the count...." [link] [link] [link] This is just one of the many videos where you can CLEARLY see from what DIRECTION the bullet is coming / hitting President Kennedy: ROM THE FRONT!!! (Warren Commission has it that it came from behind!...( [link] Interested in knowing ANY BITS of the REAL TRUTH behind the murder of JFK??? A stunning example: from www.naturalmoney.org In the past, money systems without interest on a small scale existed in various forms, with varying success. They still exist today. The success of natural money will depend heavily on the rules of the system. The most stunning success story is the Wörgl currency. On July 5th 1932, in the middle of the Great Depression, the Austrian town of Wörgl made economic history by introducing a remarkable complimentary currency. Wörgl was in trouble, and was prepared to try anything. Of its population of 4,500, a total of 1,500 people were without a job, and 200 families were penniless. The mayor, Michael Unterguggenberger, had a long list of projects he wanted to accomplish, but there was hardly any money with which to carry them out. These included repaving the roads, streetlights, extending water distribution across the whole town, and planting trees along the streets. Rather than spending the 40,000 Austrian schillings in the town’s coffers to start these projects off, he deposited them in a local savings bank as a guarantee to back the issue of a type of complimentary currency known as 'stamp scrip'. This requires a monthly stamp to be stuck on all the circulating notes for them to remain valid, and in Wörgl, the stamp amounted 1% of the each note’s value. The money raised was used to run a soup kitchen that fed 220 families. Because nobody wanted to pay what was effectively a hoarding fee, everyone receiving the notes would spend them as fast as possible. The 40,000 schilling deposit allowed anyone to exchange scrip for 98 per cent of its value in schillings. This offer was rarely taken up though. Of all the business in town, only the railway station and the post office refused to accept the local money. When people ran out of spending ideas, they would pay their taxes early using scrip, resulting in a huge increase in town revenues. Over the 13-month period the project ran, the council not only carried out all the intended works projects, but also built new houses, a reservoir, a ski jump, and a bridge. The people also used scrip to replant forests, in anticipation of the future cash flow they would receive from the trees. The key to its success was the fast circulation of scrip within the local economy, 14 times higher than the schilling. This in turn increased trade, creating extra employment. At the time of the project, Wörgl was the only Austrian town to achieve full employment. Six neighbouring villages copied the system successfully. The French Prime Minister, Eduoard Dalladier, made a special visit to see the 'miracle of Wörgl'. In January 1933, the project was replicated in the neighbouring city of Kirchbuhl, and in June 1933, Unterguggenburger addressed a meeting with representatives from 170 different towns and villages. Two hundred Austrian townships were interested in adopting the idea. At this point, the central bank panicked, and decided to assert its monopoly rights by banning complimentary currencies. The people unsuccessfully sued the bank, and later lost in the Austrian Supreme Court. It then became a criminal offence to issue 'emergency currency'. Unterguggenberger was opposed to both communism and fascism, championing instead what he referred to as 'economic freedom'. Therefore, it was deeply ironic that the Wörgl experiment was first branded 'craziness' by the monetary authorities, then a communist idea, and some years later as a fascist one. The town went back to 30% unemployment. In 1934, social unrest exploded across Austria. In 1938, when Hitler annexed Austria, he was welcomed by many people as their economic and political saviour. ***************************************** 'You' would be a fool not to read the rest of the story!...^L^ Rest In Peace,President John F.Kennedy; the most decent of all Presidents! BTW.... did you know that the Koran forbids USURY!!! Last, but not least some words of Wisdom by President John F Kennedy: "The greater our knowledge increases the more our ignorance unfolds." John F. Kennedy. from [link] 26 Nov 2008 @ 05:01 by a-d : Nov 22;nd 2008; 45 years after.... the most decent and "regular" People-supporting- President (with actual People and Nation Supporting actions taken while in Office) was shot because of these actions that would have helped not only America and all its people --but the entire World Population-- to a better life (even) TODAY was remembered honored and in the best possible way, me thinks. In 39 cities around the Nation "End The Fed" rallies were held! GOOD GOING, all you Brave people of/in America, who had the guts to step up and DO SOMETHING to wake up people --not just here-- but all over the World, with these rallies. What better way to honor Kennedy's Memory than do something supportive of the Cause for what he paid the ultimate price. [link] [link] 26 Nov 2008 @ 08:54 by vaxen : . . 26 Nov 2008 @ 19:34 by a-d : Yeahhh!... : ) The very best Hanging Rope we can give them is Love & Light of the highest possible vibration, we can muster.When people are "bombarded" with this Love & Light frequency, they HAVE TO go through the Confrontation that comes with it in ONE WAY or THE OTHER: either they they accept to have a genuine Change of Heart -or they will refuse the accountability; to do the whole repentance & amend deal, that comes with it. But they can do so ONLY AT their OWN PERIL!... THIS is where the Win-Win (for ALL involved) is "hiding"! Yeaahhh... I can see "how" & "why" many of the crooks will choose to hang themselves rather than have a Change of Heart. But, hey, to each their own. ;) 29 Nov 2008 @ 09:36 by jazzolog : JFK, Obama & Withdrawal From Wars I knew John Kennedy had presided over inexplicable enmeshment in Viet Nam, but I did not know he tried to get us out with even greater vigor. Here's a comparison of that plan with Obama's announced intention, by Gareth Porter at Inter Press Service~~~ JFK Episode Suggests Obama's Iraq Plan at Risk Analysis by Gareth Porter* WASHINGTON, Nov 27 (IPS) - The decision by President-elect Barack Obama to keep Robert M. Gates on as defence secretary has touched off a debate over whether Obama can pursue his commitment to rapid withdrawal from Iraq even though Gates has defended George W. Bush's surge policy and opposed Obama's 16-month timetable for withdrawal. Obama did not explicitly address Iraq at a press conference Wednesday, saying only that he would "provide a vision" on foreign policy and "make sure that my team is implementing" it. The appointments, which will be formally announced Monday, are expected to include Gates and Gen. James Jones as national security advisor, who has also been critical of Obama's withdrawal timetable. But the one historical precedent of a president seeking to get an unwilling military to go along with a presidential troop withdrawal plan suggests that Obama will be unable to implement his plan for Iraq without the defence secretary and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff fully on board. That is the lesson of President John F. Kennedy's effort in 1962 and 1963 to get the U.S. military commanders in Vietnam to adopt a plan for withdrawal of U.S. troops from South Vietnam by the end of 1965 -- the only other historical case of a president who tried to pursue a timetable for rapid withdrawal of combat troops from a war against the wishes of field commanders. Obama, like Kennedy, is an extraordinarily self-confident leader, and he may well believe that he can impose his Iraq policy on a national security team that is not sympathetic to it. He reportedly made it clear to CENTCOM commander Gen. David Petraeus in a face-to-face meeting in Baghdad last July that he would not bow to military pressures to alter his plan, based on Iraq-centred concerns. But the little-known story of Kennedy's timetable for U.S. withdrawal from South Vietnam underlines the critical importance to a president of having his two top national security officials on board in order to have any chance of prevailing over the resistance of commanders in the field. . Kennedy was trying to present himself to the national security community as centrist by striking a strong anti-Communist posture in public. But behind the scenes, he was trying to push through a timetable for withdrawal from Vietnam. Obama also has political interests that will inevitably conflict with putting the full weight of his office behind his withdrawal plan -- mainly demonstrating to the national security bureaucracy and the political elite that he is really within the post-Cold War consensus on the use of U.S. military power in the Middle East. Kennedy had a secretary of defence and a Joint Chiefs chairman who were prepared to cooperate fully with his strategy for withdrawal from Vietnam. Kennedy's defence secretary, Robert S. McNamara, was fiercely loyal to the president and Maxwell Taylor, then chairman of the JCS, was a close personal friend of both McNamara and Robert F. Kennedy. Kennedy used McNamara and Taylor to press the military to go along with his timetable rather than confronting them directly. Even though the two top officials in his national security team committed to the 1965 deadline for complete withdrawal, however, military commanders in Vietnam and at the Pacific command in Honolulu refused for many months to adopt the withdrawal plan being urged on them. As early as May 1962, McNamara asked field commanders to come up with a plan for complete withdrawal from Vietnam by late 1965, and suggested the end of 1965 as the conclusion of the process. McNamara insisted on such a plan in July 1962. But the military's plan for withdrawal would have left thousands of the troops in the country even in 1967. McNamara said that was too slow and told them to go back to the drawing board. Nevertheless the Pacific Command and the commander in Saigon continued to drag their feet on the 1965 deadline. Like Petraeus and the top commander in Iraq, Gen. Ray Odierno, in relation to Obama's plan in 2008, they argued that the proposed rapid timetable for complete withdrawal from Vietnam was too risky. Kennedy made a strategic political decision in October 1962 to bring in Maxwell Taylor as JCS chairman, in a move decried by the military leadership at the time as White House interference in the normal rotation among the services in that post. As Kennedy expected, Taylor was willing to help McNamara and Kennedy to turn the Joint Chiefs of Staff into an asset on the Vietnam withdrawal timetable. Kennedy's next step was to try to get the Joint Chiefs to endorse a plan to withdraw 1,000 troops from Vietnam before the end of 1963. But after months of maneuvering, and despite Taylor's support for the plan, the Joint Chiefs agreed in August 1963 only to accept an initial withdrawal for planning purposes subject to final JCS approval by Oct. 31, 1963. They were insisting on a "conditions-based" withdrawal, just like the U.S. command in Iraq in 2008. Frustrated by the military's resistance, Kennedy sent McNamara and Taylor to Vietnam with the understanding that they would return with a recommendation for the plan for withdrawal by the end of 1965 as well as an initial withdrawal of 1,000 troops. Kennedy then maneuvered to have his entire National Security Council endorse their recommendation on Oct. 3, 1963, despite the fact that key NSC officials, including National Security Adviser McGeorge Bundy, opposed the plan. Taylor then directed the military command to bring its planning into line with the previous McNamara proposal for withdrawal of all but 680 advisers. But six weeks later, Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas, and within weeks the military began to reverse the commitment to Kennedy's plan. Iraq, of course, is not Vietnam. The "Withdrawal Agreement" already signed by the Iraqi government and the Bush administration, and approved by Iraq's parliament Thursday, has put military leaders opposed to Obama's timetable on the defensive. Obama's decisive electoral victory based in part on his sharp differentiation between the Bush administration and his own position on withdrawal also strengthens his position. Kennedy had relied heavily on his defence secretary and the JCS chairman in large part because he was not ready to campaign publicly for his timetable. If Obama is ready to go to Iraq to confront field commanders on the issue, he could still prevail. But unless Obama acts to replace Adm. Mike Mullen as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff with a more supportive senior military officer after his first term ends next September, he will not have support from either of his top two national security officials on his Iraq withdrawal plan. If his national security choices are any indication, Obama, unlike Kennedy in 1962, is reluctant to risk good relations with the military leadership by making such a change. And if he becomes too distracted by his primary concern -- the U.S. economy -- or is reluctant to have a confrontation with his national security team over the issue, Odierno and Petraeus are likely to drag their heels just as U.S. commanders stonewalled Kennedy over Vietnam. Then the cost of allowing opponents of his policy to exercise day-to-day control over this pivotal foreign policy issue will soon become apparent. *Gareth Porter is an investigative historian and journalist specialising in U.S. national security policy. The paperback edition of his latest book, "Perils of Dominance: Imbalance of Power and the Road to War in Vietnam", was published in 2006. [link] 29 Nov 2008 @ 19:31 by quinty : Obama has repeatedly said that he will set the policy and that his team will implement it: which is to pull out. What's more, Iraq has given the US a timetable to get out. Fortunately for us if the US stays we will be unwelcome guests. That lack of welcome may weaken the rightwing's certain howls of "surrender" and "treason" and will provide the Democrats with some political cover. But we'll see. One of Kennedy's strengths was that he was a quick learner and willing to take the heat for his mistakes. (Something, tragically, LBJ was unable to do.) And there have been those in his administration who claimed he would have pulled out of Vietnam. The Cuban missile crisis really sobered him up and he began to move away in earnest from the Cold War view of the world of the fifties. But we will never truly know, will we? 30 Nov 2008 @ 09:38 by jazzolog : Keep Your Chin Up And Eyes On The Sky If evening skies have been clear wherever you are around the world, surely you've noticed this dance following sundown~~~ 
This particular view of Jupiter and Venus was taken on a mountaintop in Chile, probably a week ago. What's fascinating about it is you actually can look across the Milky Way just above the horizon, even with so much light from the setting sun. Also look at that meteor the camera happened to catch. Friday night the 2 planets were lined up one above the other. Last night you might have seen that sliver of a moon setting early on. By Monday night the moon will have joined the dance. Other entries in Projects 27 Jun 2008 @ 12:06: The Poor In The US Are Sick And Dying: Happy? 27 Mar 2008 @ 11:26: Green Energy Development 24 Jan 2008 @ 09:58: Getting Drunk For Dr. King 12 Nov 2007 @ 11:23: Re: happy veteran's day & Pakistan? 16 Jul 2007 @ 09:28: Constitutional Crisis 25 Apr 2007 @ 09:53: Reeling In Rove 23 Mar 2007 @ 11:39: The Phil Mattson Message Board 4 Mar 2007 @ 12:17: Global Warming Gets Hot 17 Dec 2006 @ 12:40: Distracted On Sunday 15 Sep 2006 @ 09:09: Why Have Liberals Been Afraid?
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18 Nov 2008 @ 23:51, by Richard Carlson