|New Civilization News: The Great Ohio Rebellion Disintegrates|
12 comments22 Dec 2004 @ 14:21 by spiritseek : MERRY CHRISTMAS
I wish for you and your family much love and health. If we but remember to take the chaos out of ourselves then the chaos becomes less in the outer.Become a beacon of loving light and that spark will ignite another.
22 Dec 2004 @ 21:01 by ov : Thanks
Jazz I read your blog regularly to keep up to date on what is happening with this election scandal. Well, it would be a scandal if there was any journalistic integrity left in the US. A propaganda machine that is worse than anything the Soviets ever had, but at least the Soviets knew it was propaganda.
Everybody looking for a white knight riding a democrat jackass, everybody looking for the leader with the silver bullet that will take care of everything for them, perhaps the problem is in our dependency on the top of the pyramid. I'm not hearing much about how the problem is centralization and the political system you have down there is just another case of centralization in the extreme.
Then what about Bev Harris. Sounds like she cut a deal with Diebold for a small fine, no need to look at the code or their machine, and in launching her lawsuit it prevented anybody else from taking legal action. Moles and sellouts, who can you trust. That is the problem when it all boils down to having to trust the one person at the top. It doesn't matter who that one person is, the problem is in the system itself.
All this energy being wasted in duct taping together a peace of crap that has failed the experiment. Oh well, it is nice to have a few people that condense it all down so the rest of us don't have to spend too much time on it. Just because the results weren't what the originators had hoped for doesn't mean the experiment can be considered a failure as long as it is well documented. So yes the representative democracy is a piece of crap but if we can acknowledge that then it won't be a total failure.
Keep up the good work Jazz. Play out the hand that has been dealt. It is the only way.
Encouragements to me aside, what a brilliant comment Robert! And thank you too Spiritseeker. May the Polar Express come to your door tonight!
23 Dec 2004 @ 00:27 by jmarc : introspection
is the first step in healing yourself, or your party. You could always join the republican party and change it from the inside. Just a thought. Taking advice from canadiens is just hilarious though, in my point of view. The fact that they are so fascinated with OUR system, and just know so much better than us? Cracks me up every time. I bet Kerry would of got that extra percentage point if it weren't for that whole, "world leaders want me to be president" comment.
Cheer up bucko. The pendulums still swinging, and it'll move back your way soon enough. Mark my words. I personally feel less constrained about complaining about Bush already. Always darkest before the dawn, jazz. Except in canada, where in some parts, its dark six months out of the year.
23 Dec 2004 @ 00:28 by astrid : "The problem is
in the system itself." That's it ov! THAT is what I've been trying to make everybody to hear since my first day here on NCN. Same Game. Different Day. Different Players. That is how it's been for the last 5-6000 years; since the inception of the PATRIARCHAL SYSTEM.
But that's been possible -that IS possible- ONLY to the degree there's enough people to represent -or to buy into- that TRAIN of THOUGHT/ Consciousness!
The Shift really comes forth only in the same pace as one person and the next person and the next CHANGES from Within = accept to choose other PRIORITIES!!!
So, why is that --still-- so hard for people, one might ask. Money. People still are trapped in the money game!.... WHAT does the money stand for??? LAND --if ask me. People have to grow their/raise their FOOD/Cattle.
Sure, in today's INDULDGENT MATERIAL Lifestyle here in the US, people might think that they are (emotionally) too attached to The Good Life = all the Material GLITTER... And to some extent that is true.But only as long as "everything" hums the right tune!.... Send in a Blizzard, Earthquake Hurricane, Eruption ALL (Material Stuff)is lost....But THANK GOODNESS almost all people made it out alive! People searching for eachother finding eachother and giving sigh of relief!... or a Government-orchestrated TERRORIST ATTACK.... Now the material stuff doesn't mean a shit anymore, compared to the fact that thousands of people cant be found... They were too close to the Blast and were wiped out in a matter of seconds! Now we have a juxtapostion.
Is this what it takes again one or a few more times before enough Americans to wake up? Maybe.
We who know must continue to talk to our comatose friends, "slapp" them a few times an' see if they wake up...one by one... Maybe. A few will. For those few we go on and on... And then one day Critical Mass is reached! Voila!
But it is very hard on the Planet and the not so Materially well situated Nations. They don't have info sources the way we do here. they don't have ANY money to begin with! ALL they have is the NATURAL Resources of their Lands!!!.... And THAT is what the BIG BOYS are robbing when not robbing the CASH from the Westeners!....
"Geeeeez'us" HOW can this be so hard for the Westeners to see and uinderstand and rememdy!???/ BUT once again we just have to walk one stp at the time onward and forward, envisioning nothing but Heaven on Earth. Be the cost whatever Mankind deems to be the Right Price!....
23 Dec 2004 @ 06:55 by b : Hey Jazzo, where's that
James Carville when you need him. No pay, he don't play. The democrats demigogue stays out of Ohio. Four more years. Then you can get behind Hillary. But now, you ought to relax, pay down that low interest mortgage, plant some tomatoes in your green house. For the hard core, Bush hate will keep you warm all winter. Everybody ought to relax a bit. Nobody is attacking you at home. Long term food storage is a priority. Popular brands may disapear. Life is good in USA. Enjoy yourself. I hope that your health allows that Richard.
23 Dec 2004 @ 11:31 by jazzolog : Thanks This Christmas Eve Eve
Yes B, there still is joy, even if health turns bad, or in the jaws of Death itself. O Sir JMarc, my love of Canada and its people---and a whole bunch of other countries on this spinning ball, besides the Home of the Brave---only grows stronger. Astrid, I would say the Money System, patriarchal or matriarchal, is based on labor rather than land. While property certainly implies ownership, its derivation is shared with propriety, which is about behavior and interaction with others. Figuring out a reward for the social value of one's work is the conundrum.
23 Dec 2004 @ 14:21 by martha : "my love of Canada and its people-"
Hey we something in common Jazzy.
The social value of one's work is only what you perceive it to be, no one else. The reward is in walking your talk if that is what you seek. But why seek a reward? Isn't the process the reward jazzy? The election process in Ohio was ugly and so ugly is what you get (bush and cronies). The ugly election process in Ohio is only a reflection of the whole. Over half of the votes in America voted for Bubba Bush.
So while I agree it is good to keep digging in Ohio to get the system more equitable, the real work and reward is honoring yourself and enjoying the process.....
Merry Merry to you and your lovely family. We celebrate today before all the youngins run off tomorrow to the east coast or Malibu. Spendimg lots of quality time this week with Mikey and contrary to rumors, some 15 year old boys are quite nice (once you get a straight answer out of them).
There will always be more elections but one's loved ones are not here forever.
23 Dec 2004 @ 16:09 by jazzolog : Is Olbermann Trying To Drive Me Crazy?
Thank you Martha, and gee wouldn't it be great to get our families together in celebration?
This Christmas Eve Eve it's a toss-up as to whether I'm over the brink or around the bend. During the last several hours the main sources for Jazzolog's political equilibrium on the Internet have posted new stuff or recapitulations that pretty much mandate this Election fracas is going to plow right through the holidays. Yesterday I thought the jig was up and the ballgame over. Olbermann sounded like Marley's Ghost as he said, "Look to see me no more"...and headed back into undisclosed location vacation. Apparently I was not the only one to moan at the tone of his essay on Tuesday. He headed for the telephone instead, and yesterday evening posted a new entry setting the record straight (or straighter) particularly on that "repairman" in Hocking County. [link] Among those most upset with him was Brad Friedman who promised he'd take that column apart. The Brad Blog is getting more complicated to read all the time, but I recommend you take a look at his update today...and the material about Olbermann. Brad continues to push for more attention to the Clint Curtis story, and now has a sidebar devoted just to that aspect. [link]
The Village Voice welcomes letters and comments but doesn't publish them immediately, so I don't know what reaction is out there to Rick Perlstein's piece which bummed me out totally...and which I sent out yesterday. My wife said it served me right for doing that before checking with her first, because she didn't buy all of it...especially about the repairman's little joke. We may see what a courtroom thinks about it. Attorney Ray Beckerman's entry today is enormous...and will get your fires burning again if they were flickering like mine yesterday. Especially interesting there is mention of a new video available for view online [link] , which chronicles voter suppression on Election Day. Haven't looked at it yet, so somebody let me know how it is---somebody who isn't on dialup where it takes 10 hours to load 10 minutes of footage. [link]
The bad news of the day is at Raw Story, where we learn that the major lawsuit we've all been waiting for in Ohio is tough sledding before the Chief Justice here. Called Moss vs. Bush, this is the case that Jesse Jackson has involved himself in, as did the Kerry campaign a couple of times. At the moment, with the Ohio Secretary of State's approval no doubt, Justice Moyer, whose own re-election would be drawn into limbo by the suit, is delaying it past the date when Congress is scheduled to certify the Presidential Election, and trying to dismiss it altogether. Hopefully the technical grounds upon which he has been operating throughout will draw fire from Kerry once again. [link] (And thanks to the Dusty Brand Clothing Company that took a little of the chill off that webpage. :-) Sorry.) However the lead at Raw Story is about John Conyers and his continuing concern about Triad's involvement in the recount. He's written another letter to that company and this may amount to something. [link]
Finally, it must be said that researching this stuff every day is dizzying...and there's probably no way to avoid it. We are in the midst of both investigative journalism and congressional activity at the very moment it is happening. All of this is due to and only possible because of the Internet. Television and radio couldn't get us this close, unless there were a hearing going on---and even then we wouldn't go behind the scenes the way blogs can. It's time-consuming I know, but I feel we're pioneers into a new aspect of free political activity. And nobody ever said freedom isn't exhausting.
23 Dec 2004 @ 16:30 by martha : Tommy Jefferson quotes
to cheer you up Jazzy and maintain your resolve.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance?
Difference of opinion leads to enquiry, and enquiry to truth
24 Dec 2004 @ 09:41 by jazzolog : Ohio Finally Makes The Times Big-Time
The New York Times
December 24, 2004
Voting Problems in Ohio Spur Call for Overhaul
By JAMES DAO, FORD FESSENDEN
and TOM ZELLER Jr.
COLUMBUS, Ohio, Dec. 22 - William Shambora, 53, is the kind of diligent voter who once assumed that his ballot always counted. He got a rude awakening this year.
Mr. Shambora, an economics professor at Ohio University, moved during the summer but failed to notify the Athens County Board of Elections until the day before the presidential election. An official told him to use a provisional ballot.
But under Ohio law, provisional ballots are valid only when cast from a voter's correct precinct. Mr. Shambora was given a ballot for the wrong precinct, a fact he did not learn until after the election. Two weeks later, the board discarded his vote, adding him to a list of more than 300 provisional ballots that were rejected in that heavily Democratic county.
"It seems like such a confused system," said Mr. Shambora, a John Kerry supporter who blames himself for the mistake. "Maybe if enough people's votes had counted, the election might have turned out differently."
From seven-hour lines that drove voters away to malfunctioning machines to poorly trained poll workers who directed people to the wrong polling places to uneven policies about the use of provisional ballots, Ohio has become this year's example for every ailment in the United States' electoral process.
With a state recount expected to be completed next week, few experts think the problems were enough to overturn President Bush's victory here. And many of the shortcomings have plagued elections for decades.
But with the 36-day Florida recount of 2000 proving that every vote counts and with the two major parties near parity, the electoral system is being scrutinized more closely than ever. Election lawyers and academics say Ohio is providing a roadmap to a second generation of issues about the way the nation votes.
Congressional passage of the Help America Vote Act of 2002 - which mandated the provisional ballot as a failsafe and provided states money to update voting technology - was considered a landmark overhaul that would help prevent another Florida.
But an array of voting rights groups contend that Ohio has underscored shortcomings in the law, including one of its centerpieces, the provisional ballot. Now those groups are pushing for a re-examination not only of the law, but also of other voting issues, including the role of partisan secretaries of state in overseeing elections, electronic voting and the elimination of the Electoral College.
"We're in an environment where people believe that even the tiniest number of votes can have a huge impact," said Doug Chapin, director of Electionline.org, a nonpartisan clearinghouse for voting information.
Ohio is emblematic of that attitude.
In the two weeks since Mr. Bush was certified the winner here by 118,000 votes out of 5.7 million cast, watchdog groups have filed lawsuits contesting the outcome and questioning the counting of provisional ballots. The state has nearly completed a recount, at the request of the Green and Independent Parties. Liberal Democrats have demanded investigations into whether there was voter fraud, tampering and intimidation in urban districts.
"This has fundamentally shocked people's sense of whether any election can be accurately counted," said Daniel Hoffheimer, counsel to Mr. Kerry's Ohio campaign.
It is far from clear that Republicans in Congress will have any appetite to revisit voting issues, and many Republicans here argue that the system suffered only minor glitches, even with high voter turnout. "There are no error-free elections," said Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell, a Republican whom Democrats have accused of worsening the state's voting problems in the way he interpreted state law.
But Mr. Blackwell acknowledged that the election spotlighted the state's outdated voting system, with 68 of 88 counties still relying on punch cards. In an interview, he called for updating voting machines, and also for early voting, multiple-day voting and other changes that he said would shorten lines and encourage people to vote.
"I don't think it's wrong to have high expectations," he said.
Certainly there were problems on Election Day.
In Franklin County, a computing error initially awarded nearly 4,000 extra votes to President Bush. In Mahoning County, improperly calibrated touch screens resulted in an unknown number of votes incorrectly going to President Bush before the problem was caught.
And most recently, election challengers in various Ohio counties have said that the tabulators used to count punch cards may have been tampered with before the recount.
But experts in election law say little clear evidence of fraud has emerged. Democratic officials have joined Republicans in arguing that any conspiracy to deny Mr. Kerry votes would have required Democratic complicity, because each of Ohio's 88 county election boards has two Democrats and two Republicans.
Yet there were widespread problems, many of which point to defects in the election rules, experts say.
"I think the problems weren't sufficient to cast doubt on the results," said Edward B. Foley, director of the Election Law Program at Ohio State University's law school. "But I do think there were more problems than usual in Ohio."
Provisional ballots are a prime example. In 2002, Congress authorized using the ballots in federal elections for voters whose names do not appear on registration rolls. The ballots are sealed and held until after an election, so a voter's eligibility can be checked. Valid ballots are then counted, others discarded.
But Congress largely left it to the states to promulgate rules for provisional ballots, resulting in a hodgepodge of policies. In Ohio, Mr. Blackwell, who was co-chairman of Mr. Bush's state campaign, ruled that provisional ballots would be counted only when cast from a voter's proper precinct. (At least 26 other states followed the same practice.) Democrats challenged the ruling, but a federal court upheld Mr. Blackwell.
Rules for reviewing provisional ballots also vary widely within the state. Some counties checked voter registration records dating back several years to validate ballots; others searched only recent records. Cuyahoga County, a Democratic bastion that includes Cleveland, did not check older records, and its rejection rate for provisional ballots was about 35 percent. The state average was 23 percent.
Mr. Blackwell says that despite the complaints, Ohio had one of the country's highest acceptance rates for provisional ballots: 77 percent of its 155,000 provisional ballots were counted, the highest in a 16-state survey by Electionline.org. Illinois and Pennsylvania, which went for Mr. Kerry, accepted only about half of their provisional ballots.
Perhaps the most visible of Ohio's problems were its long lines. Christopher McQuoid reached his polling place in Columbus at 4:30 p.m., congratulating himself for beating the after-work rush. By 7:30, he was getting impatient. And when he finally voted at 9:30, there were 150 people in line behind him.
"I was lucky," said Mr. McQuoid, a radio announcer. "I had the day off."
But how many people decided not to vote because of long lines, and was it enough to make a difference? No one has been able to say with authority. Much attention has focused on whether elections officials served one constituency better than another.
Among the 464 complaints about long lines in Ohio collected by the Election Protection Coalition, a loose alliance of voting rights advocates and legal organizations, nearly 400 came from Columbus and Cleveland, where a huge proportion of the state's Democratic voters live.
"It's possible that it made a difference in the outcome but unlikely," said Dan Tokaji, an assistant professor of law at Ohio State, where academics plan a voter survey to test whether large numbers were discouraged.
In Columbus, Franklin County election officials reduced the number of electronic voting machines assigned to downtown precincts and added them in the suburbs. They used a formula based not on the number of registered voters, but on past turnout in each precinct and on the number of so-called active voters - a smaller universe.
By contrast, the state's most populous county, Cuyahoga, allocated machines based on the total number of voters, a move that the county's election director, Michael Vu, said helped stave off even bigger lines.
In the Columbus area, the result was that suburban precincts that supported Mr. Bush tended to have more machines per registered voter than center-city precincts that supported Mr. Kerry - 4.6 machines per 1,000 voters in Mr. Bush's 50 strongest precincts, compared with 3.9 in Mr. Kerry's 50 best. Mr. McQuoid's precinct, a Kerry stronghold, lost one of the four machines it had in 2000, despite an increase in registration.
"Somebody came up with a very sophisticated plan for machine distribution which, either by accident or design, greatly enhanced the president," said Robert Fitrakis of Columbus, who is part of a group that has contested the election results in court.
Matthew Damschroder, a Republican who is the director of elections in Franklin County, said the urban precincts lost machines because many of their voters had not voted recently and because those precincts historically had had low turnout.
Indeed, election results show that a much higher suburban turnout on Nov. 2 meant that machines in Bush areas were more heavily used on average, although whether that was because their voters were less easily discouraged by long lines or simply more efficient in voting is unclear.
"Most of the precincts that stayed open late because of long lines were in the suburbs," said William Anthony Jr., a Democrat who is chairman of the Franklin County election board.
Another area of contention is the large number of ballots - 96,000 by recent counts - that registered no vote for president. Known as "residual" or "lost" votes, they involve cases where no candidate for president appeared to have been selected or where multiple candidates were chosen, rendering the ballot invalid for that race.
The problem was pronounced in minority areas, typically Kerry strongholds. In Cleveland ZIP codes where at least 85 percent of the population is black, precinct results show that one in 31 ballots registered no vote for president, more than twice the rate of largely white ZIP codes, where one in 75 registered no vote for president.
Experts say punch cards contributed to the problem, because the ballots, which require voters to punch a hole through a heavy-stock paper, are prone to partial perforations, or the buildup of chads. Election officials say that nearly 77,000 of the 96,000 residual ballots in Ohio were punch cards.
But Mr. Foley, the election expert at Ohio State, noted that some people consciously withhold their votes for president and that 77,000 residual punch cards is in keeping with failure rates for punch cards nationwide.
Mr. Blackwell said Ohio's residual votes actually declined this year from 2000. Of the 4.8 million votes cast in 2000, about 90,000 - 1.9 percent - registered no vote for president. This year, 96,000 of 5.7 million votes cast - 1.7 percent - did so.
Mr. Blackwell favors changing to a system that uses an optical scanner to read a paper ballot, which, he said, meets federal requirements, is less expensive than other machines and can handle more voters. But he said groups who say that just about every electronic voting system can be hacked are not helping things.
"There is still evidence out there that we need to transform the machinery," he said. "But it will be harder to do now."
When the recount is completed next week, no one expects the questions about the election to die, with several groups poised to challenge the recount.
"I think the majority of Democrats feel that the election was more or less accurate," said Dan Trevas, the spokesman for the Ohio Democratic Party. "But others are suspicious. Irregularities that are normally overlooked have become the focal point of attention this year. I just can't see those people walking away satisfied."
James Dao reported from Columbus for this article, Ford Fessenden from New York and Tom Zeller Jr. from Cleveland.
Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company
24 Dec 2004 @ 12:24 by jazzolog : And The Brad Blog Comments
Brad Friedman was up late going to work on The Times' Ohio story. If you haven't yet made a visit to this vital blog, let me entice you to it by posting here his entire entry~~~
Blogged by Brad on 12/23/2004 @ 10:46pm PT...
NY Times Mentions 'Ohio' and 'Election' and 'Problems' in Article Again!
Second Time in 9 Days!
God Bless Us, Everyone!
Precisely seven weeks after Election Day 2004, and exactly one week after the Electoral College met to cast their votes, The New York Times has filed what, by my count, is their second serious article on Voting Irregularities in the 51 days since our last terribly flawed election.
Their first landmark effort was an article just last week [link] by Tom Zeller, Jr. on which we also commented [link] with our recognizably snarky, but always-lovable, demeanor.
Today's outting -- also inked by new BRAD BLOG [link] best friend, Zeller (and others) -- finally puts the paper of record on record as admitting there were "Voting Problems in Ohio". They even go so far as to admit, "Certainly there were problems on Election Day."
Luke-warm, and a good nominee for the BRAD BLOG "Understatement of the Year Award", but for now, in the generous spirit of Christmas, we'll take it!
After a few quotes from an Ohioan who's (sic) vote failed to count this year because the provisional ballot he was given when his name didn't appear at the precinct to which he'd recently moved, was rejected because it wasn't dropped into the bucket at the precinct where he used to live, the Times piece mentions what they should have mentioned -- in spades -- on the morning of November 3rd:
"From seven-hour lines that drove voters away to malfunctioning machines to poorly trained poll workers who directed people to the wrong polling places to uneven policies about the use of provisional ballots, Ohio has become this year's example for every ailment in the United States' electoral process."
Dead-on sentiment. Wish they had joined the party earlier. But again, it's Christmas, so in the spirit of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior (well, not mine, I'm Jewish...but, hey, it's Christmas!) we'll turn the other cheek.
Back to The Times...
"[A]n array of voting rights groups contend that Ohio has underscored shortcomings in the law, including one of its centerpieces, the provisional ballot. Now those groups are pushing for a re-examination not only of the law, but also of other voting issues, including the role of partisan secretaries of state in overseeing elections, electronic voting and the elimination of the Electoral College."
Yes. We are. And some of us are not even a group at all! We're just Americans. And expect damn-well better than what we've now seen over the last two Presidential elections!
I hope that this isn't just a holiday diversion for The Times, but that they are seriously planning to continue to investigate and report on these issues.
The last few grafs, however, don't bode well...
"'There are no error-free elections,' said Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell, a Republican whom Democrats have accused of worsening the state's voting problems in the way he interpreted state law.
"But Mr. Blackwell acknowledged that the election spotlighted the state's outdated voting system, with 68 of 88 counties still relying on punch cards. In an interview, he called for updating voting machines, and also for early voting, multiple-day voting and other changes that he said would shorten lines and encourage people to vote.
"'I don't think it's wrong to have high expectations,' he said."
(Okay...I'm fine...Back up off the floor now...)
We'll try to be brief, but where to begin?
1) Any reporter (and there were three that contributed to this short piece!) that mentions Blackwell in anyway -- much less in a way that actually paints him as someone who gives any kind of a damn about solving election problems in Ohio! -- and yet doesn't point out that he was also THE OHIO CO-CHAIR OF THE COMMITTEE TO RELECT BUSH/CHENEY should have their Journalist License immediately and permanently revoked, and sentenced to a lifetime of writing 24/7 on a green blog for no money at all.
2) To quote Blackwell, without offering context, as caring in even the smallest way about shortening voting lines after he presided over an election in which thousands were disenfranchised and hundreds of thousands (almost exclusively in Democratic-dominated areas only) were forced to wait in the rain up to 7 or more hours precisely due to decisions that Blackwell himself instigated, oversaw, and approved, is again worthy of sentence to a lifetime of blogging and begging for donations via PayPal [link] on Christmas Eve eve!
3) "Outdated punchards" aren't the problem, and if we've learned anything, it's the punchcards -- being recountable and all -- that remain the last vestige of verifiable confidence in a system that has finally lost almost all remaining credibility for millions of American voters. (See the previous article on recountable Washington state [link] if you have any questions about that.) No, the problem was not the punchcards, the problem was BLACKWELL (and friends)!
4) Read items 1 through 3 again, memorize them, and give extra charitable Christmas Spirit emphasis to that PayPal link in #2.
But in that same charitable spirit, we'll thank the Times for covering the topic at all, and save our last slice of Christmas venom (read "cheer") for the Republican Party, about whom the Times story says...
"It is far from clear that Republicans in Congress will have any appetite to revisit voting issues, and many Republicans here argue that the system suffered only minor glitches, even with high voter turnout."
With all due respect to the "Republicans in Congress", I don't give much of a damn what they have an appetite for today. If we have anything to say about it -- and, as it turns out, we do! -- they will soon find themselves very hungry, very soon, for complete Election Reform overhaul.
Otherwise, by 2006, we hope they will have become as comfortable as we have with begging shamelessly for PayPal donations on a website, because they're gonna have to figure out a new way to make a living...and we hope that it won't be pretty.
God bless us, everyone.
(Thanks John of Crooks & Liars [link] for the tip!)
17 Oct 2016 @ 18:42 by yakuza4d2 @18.104.22.168 : togel online hongkong
thank you for providing web were very nice and helpful
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