New Civilization News: Global Annonymity    
 Global Annonymity13 comments
picture 18 Feb 2004 @ 08:39, by Flemming Funch

One thing that puzzles me is the big holes there are in the systems for keeping track of people in most places. You know, almost every country in the world are a bit of an authoritarian police state that would like to force all its citizens to pay taxes and not be criminals or terrorists or child molesters, or whatever else they shouldn't be. And most citizens in those countries probably feel like they're thoroughly registered and tracked by their governments. But yet it is done so badly that one should almost think it is completely intentional.

It shouldn't be a hard problem to make an all-pervasive register of the citizens in a certain country. For that matter, it shouldn't be all that hard to make a rather complete centralized register of the six billion plus people on the planet. Hey, I could design the database if I had to, without too much trouble. Give everybody a unique identifier that one can only have one of, and catch any unregistered births the moment they show up at the doctor or in school or in a bank or at a border, and get them into the system. It would make it much easier to make sure that people paid their taxes and that they could be tracked if they did something "bad".

I'm rather content with it not being that way, as I don't trust authoritarian governments, particularly the ones with some kind of moral or religious agenda, but I don't thoroughly understand why it isn't that way. Despite what it might feel like, the tracking is very sloppy or non-existent in most places.

In the U.S. the ID number is the Social Security Number. There are first of all ways of not having one at all, even though that's cumbersome. But you can also quite easily get one by showing a few pieces of paper. And nothing serious stops you from having several. In many situations you can just make up a number or use somebody else's. In the U.S. the IRS only seems to pay much attention to you if you've volunteered by starting to file tax returns. If you don't start, or you get lost a little bit by changing your name, they probably lose track of you. If you just stop filing your tax return and move somewhere else, nothing much happens either. I was an illegal alien in the U.S. for years, and it didn't make much difference. I'm sure there are several million.

And here I am in France. Did I tell the U.S. that I moved? Not particularly. And there isn't any very official way of doing so anyway. I changed address to some friends who check my mail. I haven't decided if I will bother to keep filing U.S. tax returns, or whether I want to attempt to keep my greencard status. If I just forgot about it, nothing much would happen. And did I tell France that I now live here? Well, I rent a house, opened bank accounts. And the previous rule was that within 3 months you need to go and apply for a Carte de Sejour residence permit. But that system got cancelled, and so far not replaced with anything else. So, we're here, obviously, and have a right to be here, but we're not particularly in the system in any significant way. Showing our Danish passports works fine as ID and opens most doors. "Oh, you're Danish, that's in the EU, right? Then pas de probleme!" Likewise we can freely travel to any other EU country, and nobody's even going to look at us at the border. But we haven't lived in Denmark for 19 years. Denmark has practically forgotten all about us. Oh, we could go right back any time, and start acting Danish. But at this point we're sort of in-between countries, without being clearly identified as fitting in one place or the other.

Now the thought is that maybe that's the ideal. And maybe these loopholes are quite deliberate, to pave the way for the free global movement of capital. I'm sure it isn't meant for me, but probably rather for people who have large vested interests in being a bit outside the system, and able to move their money and their interests around without anybody noticing very much. There are of course more range of freedom if you have a complicated network of companies in different countries, off-shore trusts, anonymous banking, and citizenship in multiple countries. And your holdings are in the name of all sorts of different entities that can't easily be tracked. And you yourself are perpetually on vacation, moving around between your homes in different countries, or hanging out on your yacht.

The close scrutiny of people seems to apply mostly to people who volunteer to be good local national citizens. You get a job, a local bank account, buy a house, get a phone, all in your own name. And you stay put, and get busy watching TV and going to work and paying your bills.

Or you somehow fall into the large cracks in the system, temporarily or permanently, accidentally or deliberately. You might have no paperwork, or phoney paperwork. You might be a criminal who deliberately cover your tracks. You might have carefully removed yourself from the system by studying the basis for the laws and revoked your agreement with various implicit contracts. Or you might just be in a country where nobody expects you or looks for you. Or you have an army of lawyers and accountants who do everything for you, administering your holdings of wealth, but vigorously keeping you out of the obvious picture. I suspect it is for the latter that the loop holes are allowed to exist, and even be expanded.


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13 comments

18 Feb 2004 @ 10:02 by Paul @24.205.216.227 : Maybe not for US Citizens though
I think disappearing between the cracks like you kind of have, is really difficult if you are a US citizen or not part of the EU. The EU is at a particularly interesting cross-roads when it comes to this, because they have simultaneosly eased the border restrictions if you have a passport from an EU country, and at the same time most of the other bureaucratic "stuff" is still localized in each country - making it almost impossible to track people with any degree of efficiency, especially if they live in one country, while having a passport in another.

If I were to come to the EU with my US passport these days, I imagine I'd be more scrutinized, possibly be given a harder time simply for being "one of those americans", and also not have the same lax standards apply to me as someone who is part of the EU.

So while standards are getting lax in the EU, they seem to be getting more strict and universally enforced in the U.S. and to US citizens abroad - no doubt I imagine in part from presure exerted by US authorities.  



18 Feb 2004 @ 15:20 by jmarc : past due taxes
hey, did you know if you owe taxes to the irs from more than 7 years ago, you might as well not even owe it? The computer, it seems,(ahem) only goes back 7 years now. this seems to be a new thing. i had an on going tax problem that started roughly 15 years ago. the bill went up,up up, for a while, but now it's going down down down. Without me paying a thing! Of course, i've been off the money grid for a few years now. i suppose if i'd stayed in sheeple mode, they'd still have me by the gonads. Now, i've gone and said to much, so the man-with-no name will now disappear for a while. heeheehee! dumb computers.  


18 Feb 2004 @ 16:55 by ming : IRS
Hm, I think I've heard about that. But I believe that is only if they can't get ahold of you at all for 7 years. If they have your address and can send you bills, it keeps going up. Most of what I owe the IRS is from one year, 1990, where my tax payment was $8000 short. That has grown to about 4 times as much all by itself.  


19 Feb 2004 @ 01:05 by A Brit @81.128.218.186 : A European perspective
I wonder if you are looking at this from a perspective of being a continental European. You find it strange that the system isn't tracking you. You think the reason that it isn't is because of "loopholes". From a British perspective, I would not expect to be tracked. British do not have to register with the police if they move around and do not have to carry id cards to present to the police on demand. A lots of Brits feel fiercely this is as it should be, not the result of an imperfect system. Many continental European countries have been and are much more heavily controlled, which also helps to explain some of the opposition to the EU in Britain.  


19 Feb 2004 @ 10:46 by ming : Privacy in Britain
Hm, yeah, that makes some difference. But then again, Britain seems to have more surveillance cameras everywhere than anywhere else. Maybe it is a difference in philosophies. Like, "we won't track your ID, but we'll watch everybody who walks around in public places, and we'll be there the moment anybody does anything unusual". As opposed to tracking and profiling everybody by ID in advance by computers, but not watching people physically.  


19 Feb 2004 @ 12:03 by Paul @134.197.93.73 : Show me your papers!
Now, this issue of whether you have to show police your papers on demand is going to the Supreme court. Here is the guys website that is taking it to court:

[link]  



19 Feb 2004 @ 12:33 by ming : Papers
Well, it is a good issue to bring out in the open. It focuses on the foundation of our society. The U.S. was created on a foundation that it was the free people who created the government and the government was subservient to the people, and couldn't violate their basic inherent rights, and was severely limited in what it was allowed to do at all. That has all more or less been thwarted and covered up over the years, but the foundation hasn't really changed. So in the U.S. there's actually some chance of fighting stuff like that. And a chance of generally challenging the whole federal machine or opting out of it altogether. Tens of thousands of people have already done so, usually quite successfully.

The European countries mostly come from its citizens previously being owned by the King, and any rights have sort of been added in later. So I think it is probably a good deal harder to challenge government authority on legal terms in Europe.  



23 Feb 2004 @ 17:55 by Roger Eaton @204.250.12.246 : database of everybody
> it shouldn't be all that hard to make a rather complete centralized
> register of the six billion plus people on the planet.

A standard top down approach would be hugely expensive, I should think. What would be a good guess of the cost per person if the information were to be fairly good? Conservatively, USD 20 per person to begin with and then another USD5 per year to keep up with people as they move, change names, die. So 120,000,000,000 USD to set it up and another 30,000,000,000 per year as we go along? A bottom up volunteer effort coordinated via the internet might be more practical (I wonder!), but still enormously difficult. I can see it now. Ahh, Mr bin Laden, you are number 3,555,123,004 - please smile for the camera. Or imagine a Cuban volunteer requesting entrance to the U.S. prison at Guantanamo.  



24 Feb 2004 @ 10:39 by ming : Database
Well, I don't really want anybody to make one at this point. And I suppose the traditional view would be that it would be very hard and expensive.

But if a prospective customer came to me and wanted such a database... Six billion records, and you want, oh, say, 1K of information for each, which is their name, address, birth information, nationality and that kind of thing. That's six terabytes of storage. That in itself is not any kind of a problem. But there would be a guess at the amount of access. Say, 10,000 simultaneous connections in any given second, maybe a billion lookups per day. Would have to be distributed on a bunch of servers somehow. You could buy an Oracle system with those specs. Or, me being an optimist, I bet I could come up with some clever distributed mysql thing, if you gave me a year and a sufficient amount of money.

Hey, I've had databases with over 100 million records, and managed dynamic websites with a million visitors per day on a single server, which wasn't much more than a regular PC. So with a couple of hundred servers and a good plan, the problem is certainly not insurmountable. I'd quote you $5 million, including hardware, to be on the safe side.

Of course, in addition to the technical problems in interfacing with all sorts of different existing systems, the bigger amount of work would be the human activity of how to keep up with people, so this database would need to be queried whenever anybody did anything important, like accessing their ATM or using a public bathroom.

Anyway, I hope nobody's listening.  



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