| Toward a Unified Metaphysical Understanding: The Gaian-Ego Hypothesis Release |
Category: Ego Tags: awakening, conditioning, csr, ego, holistic science 8 comments
19 Jul 2008 @ 19:40 by a-d : GROUNDHOG Day RE-visited! : ) 20 Jul 2008 @ 04:43 by anandavala : people or systems? Hi A-d, Great to hear your ideas on this issue :) I recognise and respect where you are coming from. I agree with most of what you are saying on the surface but not with the premises that seem to underlie them. Please allow me to explain... We seem to have very different ideas about what we are and where we are, and this leads us to see things very differently. Many think “I am a person in a world” and “the phenomena in the world are a product of the responses of people and the interactions between people”. Others think “I am an individual spirit being in a spirit world” and “the phenomena in the spirit world are a product of the responses of individual spirit beings and the interactions between individual spirit beings” But I think “I am a system that arises from the interactions of sub-systems and my interactions cause various super-systems to arise, and all systems operate within a complex systemic context where there are systems within systems and systems inter-penetrating systems” and “the phenomena within the systemic context are a product of the responses of systems and the interactions between systems at ALL levels, not just at my level”. Many of the systems can be referred to by names ranging from pure information to particles to cells to organisms to humans to organisations to nations to planets to galaxies and the whole universe. I don't see it as just being about 'people'. If we focus only on the level of 'people' or on any single level then most things simply cannot be understood because they are happening across many levels. I agree that health is health, but there are many types of ill-health and without an accurate diagnosis it is often the case that health cannot be regained. I agree that the exact details of the past are irrelevant but I would suggest that we need to recognise the general structure of the repeating patterns that lead us time and time again into suffering and destruction. Then we can identify what it is that keeps us trapped in those patterns and then we can rise above the repeating patterns. Otherwise we will keep acting out the same patterns and just replace one destructive regime with another until these destructive regimes have destroyed everything. You say: “Whom are we kidding when thinking we know!?!?” And I would say to people, whom are you kidding when you think you know that you are a “person in a world”? That is just an assumption that is maintained by the ego in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. You rightfully state that organisations are made of individual humans but humans are organisations of cells and cells are organisations of particles. If organisations made of humans are not 'alive' then what makes us think that we are 'alive'? What is life other than self-organised existence on any level? It is not just multi-cellular organisms that have life – that is only how it seems to us multi-cellular organisms but from other perspectives it seems very different. To a cell it would seem that only cells have life and that we are just organisations of cells. To a human organisation it would seem that only they have life and we are just cells within their body. You say: “I do agree with you, that there is a Gaia-Ego.... But I wouldn't say Mother Earth created it into being!.... Cosmic Beings like we/us Humans did it -and eventually infected the whole Planetary Matrix with our Spiritual ills!!!!” I agree that “Mother Earth” didn't create it, but neither did humans. Our biggest spiritual ill is the ego, which assumes that “I am a person and I make things happen”. But in reality everything that happens is a universal happening. Creation happens at all levels from particles to galaxies and beyond, not just through humans. When we act based on false assumptions we come into conflict with reality – that is the spiritual 'ill'. You say: “ALL we CAN say is, that the NEEDS for ANY Living Being (in order to stay the WAY LIFE ORIGINALLY MADE them to BE )is the SAME today as ALWAYS!...don't you think?” Life keeps evolving and new emergent forms keep arising. The general principles remain the same, i.e. input, transformation and output. But the particulars keep changing, for example, originally this planet sustained an ecosystem of single cells in a methane rich atmosphere, then these self-organised into multi-cellular organisms in an oxygen rich atmosphere and now we are self-organising into multi-human organisations in a carbon-dioxide rich atmosphere. Each emergent life form has very different needs, for example: * Single cells feed on single cells, chemical substances and sunlight. * Multi-cellular organisms feed on multi-cellular organisms, 'natural' substances (water, etc) and single cells (yeast, yoghurt, etc). * Multi-human organisations feed on multi-human organisations, minerals and energy (metals, oil, etc), multi-cellular organisms (consumers and producers, farm animals, etc) and single cells (bacteria used in manufacturing processes, etc). You say: “I do believe in the EXTRA ordinary value in BEING THE CHANGE we want to see (in the world)” I agree! If we want the world to break out of destructive delusion then we ourselves must break out of our own destructive delusions, like “I am a person in a world and that it that”. The ideas of 'person' and 'world' are still useful ideas on our level but when we assume that they are the “only reality” we slide into egoic delusion. Just like when a fascist regime assumes that “I am the nation and that is that”. I agree that “We can ONLY fix our selves/our own lives.” but most people don't realise what that means. We must uncover the unconscious assumptions that lead us to dwell in fantasy and when we do that we see that not only is the world fundamentally different to what we thought it was, but we ourselves are fundamentally different to what we thought we were. This is why "communicating our awareness" can be world changing. What do you think of these ideas? Love and Light :) John . 20 Jul 2008 @ 19:06 by a-d : Ahhh,Dear.... I would like to add to my statement first & foremost, but it goes for both of us --as it goes for ANY Human! ...But when is some Knowledge worth having and when not?... I think if a given Knowledge Package doesn't tell anything "how" to be a more Compassionate, Loving Being towards ALL God's Creation... then it is simply an exersise in human self aggrandisement. (The ) "Me" ( = the Prototype of truly Divine/Cosmic/LOVING Being; be they from /on Planet Earth --or anywhere else in our vast Universe-- )) is given all the power in Heaven and on Earth..." BUT ONLY to the true and genuine "Me" the Christos = the Divine Prototype. Until we have realized this and put into daily practice, nothing else REALLY counts --other than to feed one's Self Importance... the VIP Syndrome in us what makes us feeling like Mr Somebody! ...as if being just "Me" wasn't enough --or hard enough!... ; ) (just a thought... : ) )) 22 Jul 2008 @ 01:58 by anandavala : Symbols and Knowing Hi A-d, We seem to be having parallel and diverging conversations on this subject on both our blogs :) Here's a link if anyone wants to see the conversation on A-d's blog. Knowledge isn't contained in words or symbols - it is a state of knowing within the mind. If minds are open and the symbols are mutually understood then this knowing can be shared. But often minds are not open and everyone has different ideas on what the symbols mean - so there is very little sharing of knowing. In our case I know that both our minds are very open - but we have such different associations with the symbols so there isn't much sharing of knowing. Instead our conversations are mostly about clarifying the meanings of words and concepts with each other so that we might eventually find some way to share our knowing. Knowledge isn't some shallow intellectual phenomenon - it is knowing at all levels. The mind is always operating on knowledge both consciously and sub-consciously. "With our thoughts we make the world" (Buddha) "We believe what we perceive, but we only perceive what we believe." (C.C.Keiser) If we have a confused knowing then everything about our perceptions, interpretations, experiences, responses and actions is confused. And if we have a clear and coherent knowing then all of these things are clear and coherent. Only then can we live in harmony with ourself, with others and with reality in general. If the knowing is confused but the intellect is agile then this can be used to help clarify the deeper confusion. That is the method of my own approach - and also the method of jnana yoga (yoga of supreme knowledge). This can be very effective and rapid for those who are ready. But for others who's intellect is not agile or who are prejudiced against the intellect then they must use other indirect methods. Some examples of this are bhakti yoga (yoga of devotion), karma yoga (yoga of action), meditation (stilling the confusions) or decades of life experience and ego-crushing suffering. The confused knowing that many people experience: "I am an individual being, separate from everything else" leads to an absence of "Compassionate, Loving Being towards ALL God's Creation". This confused knowing arises from sense experience and naive realism. But the knowing that is arising all along the cutting edge of modern science (from quantum physics to system theory to philosophy and more) gives us a knowing that is identical with the heart of Eastern spirituality. It gives us a knowing that things only seem individual and separate, but these are just limited perceptions of a unified whole. This knowing does lead us to "Compassionate, Loving Being towards ALL God's Creation". Real-science and real-spirituality work hand in hand. 22 Jul 2008 @ 02:15 by anandavala : Crisis or no Crisis???? I will quote here a comment I made in a recent discussion on the global systemic crisis. It is closely related to the subject of the Gaian-ego and may help to clarify what I mean when I speak of a global crisis. "It is not that our minds are clear and that there is some objectively real crisis, it is more the case that in reality everything is fine but our minds are so distorted that we have become confused and agitated. It is this epidemic of distorted minds and consequent agitated, destructive behaviour that is the crisis. There is no actual crisis, but the fact that we perceive there to be a crisis, that itself is the crisis. Reality is as it is and this is reflected within the mind. A distorted mind creates a distorted reflection and through naïve realism we treat the distorted reflection as the reality. These distorted reflections are expressed through language and culture and resonate amongst many distorted minds, becoming even more distorted. Eventually all we come to experience is the distortions in our minds illuminated by the light of reality. We succumb to fear and paranoia, and act in holistically destructive ways toward each other and the world. The solution is to recognise that the distortions are not the reality and to clarify our minds and our culture (collective mind). Meditation [and jnana] techniques are effective for cellular civilisations (organisms) that are dominated by an ego operating within the mind. But that is only one level of the situation. Those methods can also be adapted to be effective for human civilisations that are dominated by a collective ego operating within the culture. Individual meditation is about quietening the egoic psycho-babble and collective meditation would focus on quietening the authoritarian propaganda stream. [Individual jnana is about identifying false beliefs and disentangling the mind from them and collective jnana would focus on identifying false beliefs and disentangling our cultural discourses from them.] The way (for an individual) isn't to fight the psycho-babble but to not engage with it and to focus on cultivating calm awareness. Likewise for the collective case the way isn't to fight the propaganda stream but to not engage with it and focus on cultivating a public discourse of calm awareness. This can bring peace and genuine awareness back to the mind of the individual and the culture of the collective." 22 Jul 2008 @ 04:54 by a-d : I always have good reason to agree with MOST of the statements of Wisdom that you put forth. MOST of what you say rings true... Only SOME of it does not ring true...Opposite to your choice of format; as I see it: very abstract not to say clinical, hehehe... I have opted for as easy (I hope)and as visual & tangible symbolism to explain these intangible concepts, that we both try to convey to each other and our readers. Thank God for Delete Buttons! I use my Inner delete button all the time!... so much weird images/thougtforms just pop in to my mind out of Nowhere... and I look through, then I delete. This is "how" I work on cultivating calm awareness. And this is also how I would explain it people, since most people LIKE to make tangible visual HELP AIDS for themselves when working on growing in understanding both themselves & Life. ( there's very few Bowo/s Out there! ; ) But make no mistake,I do understand most of what you say and I agree with most, just me trying to come up with simpler lingo for us all especially on those few things you say, that I don't quite get!... : )... Language can be both a barrier and an opening -to another ( person's) Mind!.... 22 Jul 2008 @ 08:03 by deepwater : I can relate! Hi a-d, I relate to your position of trying to make the understandings that John gives us simpler and easier to understand for our readers. And I know that having tangible 'help aids' is an effective way of doing this. Both my newslog here at ncn and my weblog at www.anadavala.info/Deepwater/ are my way of presenting the information in a simpler format, both through writing articles and through a series of meditations and images that could help the mind adjust to these (for most) new and complex concepts. I appreciate your work along these lines and hope that between us we can bring an insight to our readers that is comprehensible to them whilst maintaining the integrity of the original work. Blessings, Glistening Deepwater. 13 Aug 2008 @ 11:44 by maxtobin : Thank you all For this wonderful discourse upon the nature of our source expressing through the ONE and the MANY. I 'grok' the complete-ness of your sensing John and can only say "hey there fellow traveler on the path of royal return, I see you and I hear you, you make sense (at least in all that I have absorbed thus far)". Blessed is the ONE-NESS; and either perception of life ~ as separate or as one is valid. However, both could be seen as assumptions rather than as truths (set in stone). For "I" am not you, as human being, we are each of us separated; yet within an energetic flow we call life. So as life we are ONE? Blessings to the ONE SUN of GOD/GODDESS (creator source) through which all of of life is made manifest. You said; "If we focus only on the level of 'people' or on any single level then most things simply cannot be understood because they are happening across many levels... When we act based on false assumptions we come into conflict with reality – that is the spiritual 'ill'... I would suggest that we need to recognize the general structure of the repeating patterns that lead us time and time again into suffering and destruction... If minds are open and the symbols are mutually understood then this knowing can be shared. But often minds are not open and everyone has different ideas on what the symbols mean - so there is very little sharing of knowing. " So much you have said that takes us into the core of our-story. "It gives us a knowing that things only seem individual and separate, but these are just limited perceptions of a unified whole. This knowing does lead us to "Compassionate, Loving Being towards ALL God's Creation".... In Deeds we make our only contribution to the collective fantasy BUT it is intent that empowers the all. I have found the Mayan calendar to be a useful tool for external validation (and clarification of the repeating patterns of creation) of my own 'knowing' of the inevitable point of convergence/return and its consequences for our journey. We are awakening together collectively as we must for that is the plan. I thank you for the invitation to join in conversation. Well met as they said in the time of the bard. I delight in your colours, thank you again. There was some substance to the call to return to this forum. Other entries tagged as "awakening" 2008-08-13: Seven Steps To Unified Metaphysical Awareness 2008-08-11: Contexts of Understanding 2008-07-28: Simplified Anatomy of the Global Systemic Crisis and How to Heal Civilisation 2008-07-16: Global Peace Intention Experiment 2008-07-10: Clarifying Contexts to Avoid Confusion and Develop Mutual Understanding 2008-06-24: I Ching, Consciousness, Universe and the Journey of Life 2008-06-23: In Defence of Rationalism 2008-06-23: Rationality, Scepticism and the I Ching 2008-06-22: Invitation to a Conversation 2008-06-21: Ask Yourself This
Other entries tagged as "conditioning" 2008-07-19: The Gaian-Ego Hypothesis Release 2008-06-19: Thoughts on the Outline of a Unified Science 2008-06-17: Scientistic Heresy 2008-06-09: What is Knowledge, Science and Reasoning? 2008-06-07: Naïve Realism and Empiricism 2008-05-27: Thoughts on Navigating the Paradigm Shift 2008-04-30: The Ancient Roots of Science 2007-07-24: Blind Spots and Naive Realism 2007-06-28: Commonsense, Fascist Regimes and the Ego 2007-06-27: Psychological Manipulation
Other entries tagged as "csr" 2008-07-28: Simplified Anatomy of the Global Systemic Crisis and How to Heal Civilisation 2008-07-21: Naïve Realism, Empirical Science and Transcendent Science 2008-07-19: The Gaian-Ego Hypothesis Release 2008-06-21: Ask Yourself This 2008-06-19: Thoughts on the Outline of a Unified Science 2008-06-17: Virtual Reality Analogy Alongside Science and Mysticism 2008-06-17: Scientistic Heresy 2008-06-15: Hiranyagarbha 2008-06-15: Computational Metaphysics and Vedic Metaphysics 2008-06-09: What is Knowledge, Science and Reasoning?
Other entries tagged as "ego" 2008-07-28: Simplified Anatomy of the Global Systemic Crisis and How to Heal Civilisation 2008-07-19: The Gaian-Ego Hypothesis Release 2008-06-06: The End of a Cycle 2008-06-06: Naïve and Unified Realism as Evolutionary Forces 2008-06-06: Ramifications of Naïve and Unified Realism in Different Contexts 2008-05-27: Thoughts on Navigating the Paradigm Shift 2008-05-26: Naïve Realism - Definition and Philosophical Arguments 2008-05-17: Nations as expressions of the soul of a people 2008-05-09: What is a definition? How does it relate to meaning? 2007-06-28: Commonsense, Fascist Regimes and the Ego
Other entries tagged as "holistic science" 2008-08-13: Seven Steps To Unified Metaphysical Awareness 2008-08-11: Contexts of Understanding 2008-07-21: Naïve Realism, Empirical Science and Transcendent Science 2008-07-19: The Gaian-Ego Hypothesis Release 2008-07-16: Global Peace Intention Experiment 2008-06-24: I Ching, Consciousness, Universe and the Journey of Life 2008-06-23: In Defence of Rationalism 2008-06-23: Rationality, Scepticism and the I Ching 2008-06-22: Invitation to a Conversation 2008-06-21: Ask Yourself This
Other entries in Ego 2008-07-19: The Gaian-Ego Hypothesis Release
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