|New Civilization News: Dangerous Ideas?|
Category: Ideas, Creativity
31 comments6 Jan 2006 @ 09:33 by jstarrs : We always fall into the trap...
...of believing either something/somone has to exist intrinsically or doesn't exist at all, eternalism or nihilsm.
The Madhyamika view as posited by Nagarjuna and which meets up in particle physics, is tantalizingly somewhere in between.
Although an ultimate Self/Soul, independant of the aggregates, can't be found to exist, a relative, creater-of-actions dependant on many parts, can be posited.
I find that pretty, er, dangerous...whatever that means!
Here's some debate:
6 Jan 2006 @ 18:15 by ming : Existing
It is cool and weird to explore this paradoxical stuff. Free will or not. Separate identity or not. Spirit or particle physics. When we look close enough at things, we might have to give up some of our habitual thinking. I guess what pisses me off is when somebody grasps one "side" of the paradoxical truth and then declares that view to be the only possible view.
6 Jan 2006 @ 18:20 by jstarrs : Dualistic mind...
..can only handle 'one' or 'the other'.
I'm beginning to think the truth is otherwise: beginningless time, integrating two truths (relative and ultimate), free will and karmic consequences can be compatible, etc...all this twists the mind a little but maybe it's only being twisted back to it's original shape....;0)
7 Jan 2006 @ 02:50 by jobrown : Great point...
..you're making, Jeff! THANKS!!!
8 Jan 2006 @ 07:19 by maxtobin : Getting somewhere?!
Love this little corner of the multiverse/universe (keep singing guys!!). A dangerous idea indeed is the emerging answer to the common issues we are experiencing within our tissues. I delight in your "rant" Flemming as ever on the button. My little input is to suggest that the shifting of the calendar to a more appropriate 'base frequency' of the divine/universal would annihilate the condition of ignor-ance we are currently emmeshed in. The answer is not to be known by mind but witnessed!!! If we can get out of the mind field trap; there will be no more explosions!!
I believe a dangerous idea which has potential to reveal the deeper course of humans evolution for the divine current it is already contained within would be through a deeper understanding of the Mayan Calendar here is a good place to begin
9 Jan 2006 @ 17:46 by jstarrs : Ming the Merciless?
Now I'm REALLY confused!
9 Jan 2006 @ 18:51 by rayon : Also in simplicity,
does one speak from the Objective or Subjective? With former it is "We" for the latter, only "I". For me this is like getting the Warp and the Weft in a Weave, putting them together, in a large enough piece that bends, flows, billows like the universe, or just as a cloak, perhaps many different ones? of all hues. The I who prays must search for proof to talk to the We who just listen. In Charles Jancks words, this could be the Jumping Universe, from the I's to the we's and back in milliseconds. Yes I do think in Quantum time, found by accident. Could be a natural a state as any other, waiting for discovery, coexisting with all others. My description of it can only be done by diagram, very simply.
Then to Jeff's philo, they have cojoined the concepts to be identical to both I and It. (No Cloth, nothing, instant invisibility, phooph, like Merciless Ming in pic only mind you, not real life). The We relate through the I to the It immediately without difficulty, imparting instant Peace and calm to the Physical repose to discuss or relate so, and affording all else its point of wrangle. Happy New Year, Ming.
10 Jan 2006 @ 23:11 by ming : Mingers
Hah, that's priceless, Jeff. I prefer the "Mingnons", that's so cute.
10 Jan 2006 @ 23:17 by ming : I or We
If we could always be more clear on who we're speaking for and where we're speaking from and what we see, and we were willing to grant that there are many possibile answers for each of these - there wouldn't be so much to argue about. Oh, there's an endless number of things to argue about, as there's an endless number of different perspectives, but there wouldn't be much need to be very defensive about it.
27 May 2006 @ 12:45 by doojie : Dangerous Ideas
Darwin pointed out that organisms seem to evolve toward greater complexity. So, let me point out a dangerous idea that might threaten traditional christianity from a biblical perspective consistent with Darwinian conclusions.
One of the more intriguing scriptures(to me at least) regarding the human mind and change comes from St Paul's writings, Romans 8:7: "The carnal(physical, fleshy) mind is enmity against God. It is not subject to God's laws and neither indeed can be"
This would create two interesting conclusions:
1.No human can claim authority as "God's representative", because no human can be subject to God's law.
2. Any attempt to create "divine authority" would result in a continuing speciation and proliferation of ideas about God.
This is true, because there are estimated over 30,000 variations within christianity alone at this time.
With this increasing diversity comes an increasing complexity of concepts about God that must merge with our concepts of reality itself. Any speculation about God "outisde" this physical reality will of necessity create an infinity of concepts of God, which force us to become more individualistic, and therefore more free in our thought processes.
Biblically, if Jesus came to fulfill the law as he stated in Matthew chapter 5, he would surely realize that such an attempt would result in the speciation and diversity mentioned above. Not only did he realize it, but Matthew 10:34-38 states that such division was one purpose of his ministry.
Such a conclusion would result in the realization that all religious ideas about God can only be partial conclusions about truth, as Godel's Incompleteness Theorem confirms, but that in order to be truly free, we cannot be "contained" within any particular religion, but we ourselves exist "outside" of all religious ideas. As Douglas Hofstadter points out in "Godel, Escher, Bach", truth transcends theoremhood. If you ask a mathematician what truth is, he would probably shrug, gesture at the universe around him and say "This". We exist in a "sea of truth" that defies human description, and in the human description is deception.
Strangely, when Jesus was asked about the "end time" in Matthew 24, his first warning was to "take heed that no man deceive you". Since all human descriptions of reality can only be partial and therefore incomplete, accepting any one as "my" total reality would be deception, Further, to "convert" others to that reality would create greater entropy as masses of people lose their adaptability to change and the infinite options that exist around us. The logical way to avoid deception, therefore, would be to remain "outside" of all religions. Jesus himself seems to confirm this in Matthew 24:23: "If any man says to you, Lo, here is Christ, or there, believe it not".
Regarding christianity, therefore, we come to the "dangerous idea" that seeking to obey "God's law" actually directs us toward diversity, parallelling the diversity discovered by Darwin, which might indicate intelligent design that directs and increases our intelligence by leading us toward random processes.
An indication of this randomness biblically would be 1 Corinthians 1:26-29.
12 Jun 2006 @ 03:55 by one cor i;26 @22.214.171.124 : biblical specificy
1/26..think of what you were when you were called,;
none of us were wise by human standard
god did it all for us then the sin was ,
not many were in-fluenc-tial ,all were of noble birth
but as fallen angels do god cast us into skin and flesh..gen3
and to tell you more gets this remooved
perhaps this is dangerously allready too much ,
so here it goes
just to see,
thank be the mighty mi-ng.
7 Aug 2006 @ 13:51 by Blog @126.96.36.199 : None
Your right no human can take claim as God's representative.
7 Aug 2006 @ 13:52 by Blog @188.8.131.52 : Mignons
"Life the universe and everything is all one system, which is self-organizing, intelligent and eternal. There's no outside to it. Nothing is separate from it. Whatever happens inside of it happens because it is in its nature to happen."
Rathor Interesting Quote
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Your right no human can take claim as God's representative.
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20 Jul 2015 @ 14:06 by Roger Jimlad @188.8.131.52 : Great piece
Any person or organisation that tells you they have the one and only true path to God has an agenda.
Religions always have an agenda. They want your adherence and your obedience and a lot of them want your money. Divinity exists outside all that man-made tosh and is a far, far more complicated thing than any religion is capable of encompassing. If you think the beginning and end of the true nature of things is encapsulated in any one book, creed, philosophy or dogma, then not only are you not using the critical faculties God gave you, you are also guilty of believing in a very small reality indeed: for once you find it all or say you have, you deny that there is more....and there is never not more.
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