|New Civilization News: Static or dynamic web metaphors|
20 comments27 Oct 2007 @ 08:54 by Michael Arnoldus @18.104.22.168 : Context
Maybe - just maybe - there's a good reason for actually limiting the amount of information available in an instant. In this piece you consider 'dragging stuff' through 3 dimensions a burden it would be so nice to be freed from - and yes, the internet seems to be the platform that could deliver the promised land of having everything present right here and now - an ideal i myself as an 'information worker' (IT bum) have been idealizing. But lately another thought has arrived. Why do I so often find myself paralyzed and not able to the things I want to do? And why is it never like that if I'm doing something physical with myself - running - taking a walk, painting the house etc? Maybe - and I really do mean maybe 'cause I don't know - I've been thinking if Bateson's ideas of context markers is the difference. In a purely virtual space with no limitations I find myself unsure of what to do - too many choices and no clear context pointing me in a direction, but in a 'physical space' (or at least a physical metaphor) I find certain markers that make the next action natural - even actions about moving from this space/context onto another. It feels natural, blissful, free! So I'm thinking that we as humans might actually need contexts and spaces to guide ourselves to put some structure into the world, and the fact that it actually do take some tine and effort to move to another context/space is exactly the thing that makes it so easy for me to know what to do right now - It requires energy to move so I might as well finish what I could do here - until my other needs and wants are excerting a pressure larger then the energy it requires to move to a new context/place. So maybe the 'limitation' of having to move (in some sense) is providing the world with some kind of structure - a landscape - that allows me to see the paths I want to walk. Just a thougt!
28 Oct 2007 @ 00:29 by ming : Markers
The natural world has a lot of aspects to it, which impose a certain order. Real things are not just information, but they have weight, they're located in different places in space, they cost money, etc. All of which influences, limits and guides the way we interact with them. Which we're very used to, and which creates a certain stability and a certain flow. One can only be in one place at a time. If one has several possible places to go, one will weigh the time, effort and cost involved in going to them into one's decision making process. And in some ways it is good that the physical aspects of things is a limiting factor. It provides a certain grounding.
So, transferring it to a virtual environment provides us with something we're familiar with, and a certain natural flow is likely. We'll know what to do with documents and folders on a desktop without too much explanation. The limitation of that metaphor imposes a certain type of order.
But that still doesn't mean that it in any way is the most efficient way of organizing large amounts of information. It isn't really. So I think the thing to do is to better understand what it is that works about environments that work. As you point out, markers and contexts. Also simply that there's a sufficient number of channels of information that we can assign meaning to. In the real world a huge amount of information would take up a lot of space, and weigh a whole lot, so we're not likely to miss the difference between a little and a lot of information. But if, in the virtual world, both are represented by simply a link, which looks about the same, and which doesn't give much indication about what's found behind it, we're obviously missing something.
The challenge is to find out how we can have sufficiently meaningful information, markers that actually tell us something, and markers that indicate context, without simply being stuck with artificial limitations that came about from the way people invented the desk, and paper, and file folders.
29 Oct 2007 @ 13:21 by swanny : Communication
The current definition of a computer according to the gurus
is "not a computational device (old) but a "communication device" (new)
so has communication changed so that now communication requires a computer do be accomplished?
I can thusly communicate in a much more complex manner or am I? Not simply with words but images and sounds and such but the meanings? Are the meanings thus shifting... too then?
or are they becoming transformed somehow....
what does it mean to communicate thus? What is being communicated with all this computational power....? So maybe we have to rethink communication.
30 Oct 2007 @ 00:01 by ming : Communication
A computer on the net is a communication amplifier, I suppose. It allows you to communicate over wider distances with many more people. And it allows different kinds of communications, sometimes with more dimensions, sometimes sliced differently. Whereas with a telephone you need to pick somebody to call, and you have a conversation of a certain duration, on the net you might exchange little bits of information with a great many people.
30 Oct 2007 @ 09:04 by swanny : OSI
Yes amplification but communication occurring perhaps on several levels or layers somewhat simultaneously. According to the OSI 7 layer model it starts at the physical and proceeds upwards to networks and applications. Plus there is the bits and bytes in machine language being assembled into various things so youre also communicating to various listening machines that might be disecting your words or communication for other purposes and the communication maybe even being broadcast into space via satellites and wifi . So this isn't simple tin can and string communication going on. There is amplification, and dissection and assembling and translation etc. These days though it seems theres is a lot of communication but very little listening being done. or ? well the listening seems to be being drown out by ????? Yet without real listening then is it really communication or ? just noise ?
new tune or movie
the parade of life movie...
it communicates what?
link = http://22.214.171.124/paradeoflifemovie.html
when I listen to what me and my friends came up with
its seems compelling I said this is movie music or I guess its called
soundtrack music yet we had the music first and then made and added the
movie or images after thats odd.... to the norm...
yet it works or worked and communicates something transcendent of words.
A snap shot of history and perhaps a wonder lust of "whats next?"
30 Oct 2007 @ 09:25 by swanny : Jamming
I guess though music and movies don't really communicate in the true sense of communication ie "interaction" . As they more or less dictate or express rather than exchange a dialouge unless of course you are "jamming". The premise of jamming being that you start with a riff or progression or theme and everyone joins in and adds to the basic premise or structure taking it to heaven knows where but built upon a usually a very simple structure. The new Kaltura site http://www.kaltura.com/index.php/mykaltura/viewprofile/screenname/swanlake being the extension or principle or tool to accomplish this.
Okay but does jamming have rules...??? or standards or ????
and is that what communication is then Jamming built on some very basic syntax
and grammar and "jammed" into what it is today...
hmm communication as "jamming"....
31 Oct 2007 @ 00:10 by Matt @126.96.36.199 : Good lord, I am só happy to be bound!
I had exactly the same feeling as Michael Arnoldus reading this article.. Being behind a computer about 10 hours every day, I find peace in all physical things around me, in me.
And a computer or cellphone, whatever they call it. It still are tools, like the good old axe. Tools to do calculations with, or to communicate with. It extends your voice, extends your brain, extends your cutting power. That's all.
Of course, being 'extended humans' will have huge impact on the way we live as a group. And being able to obtain information/knowledge more efficiently then ever before in our history has huge impact. But creating an avatar will never be exactly the same as being born. Because an avatar is a representation of a physical 'you'. It gets fed by what goes on automatically in your brain. Of course being able to have multiple you's floating through the world will make the chances for connections with others larger. And will make the human collective smarter and smarter, just like a big brain. And different people/neurons will react differently on incoming information of certain types.
And in the end we might meet another 'brain' somewhere on a distant planet. And we might connect. And found another, even larger 'brain'. The process will never stop. And the building blocks might get fed more efficiently over time by the collective.
But the basic building blocks of life will probably stay the same forever: we need energy. And wherever we go, we will never disconnect from being physical beings. That will always be our constraint. At some point we might live forever. But we still are physically bound. It's what makes us us. It's our identity. No identity, no individuals, no progress = death.
Good lord, I am só happy to be bound!
31 Oct 2007 @ 00:20 by Matt @188.8.131.52 : Efficient communication
Efficient communication is deduction, is focus. Our body receives millions of impulses every second. Still, our brain deducts exactly what is important.
That is exactly what developments like web 2.0 are doing. A large croud will deduct the important information from millions of sources. By selectively pushing things forward or ignoring things.
If 100 people do one simple 1 dimensional thing, you automatically get multiple dimensions. The fun is in the mass. Not in how efficient one person can handle information.
1 Nov 2007 @ 16:38 by Ben Tremblay @184.108.40.206 : Gratified, I am
Very good to find this, and nice to know you are always activie on such as this.
FWIW: my years of fascination with Hesse's _glasperlenspiel_ spun me in a different direction, a way of ordering loosely coupled information through something like the Socratic method / propositional logic ... maybe not touchy/feely/warm and fuzzy but, well, rational and respectful.
wishing you always well
6 Nov 2007 @ 23:46 by ming : Glasperlenspiel
Which reminds me that the book is still lying in a stack next to my bed, and I didn't get very far. It seems to have been very significant for a whole bunch of people.
Well, I'm reading Rudy Rucker's SF "Post-singular" right now, which certainly also speaks to some of this.
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Although this chat is relatively old, it was interesting to read ...
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