New Civilization News: What About Fraud And A Recount?    
 What About Fraud And A Recount?26 comments
picture14 Nov 2004 @ 12:06, by Richard Carlson

Like a dream,
Whatever I enjoy
Will become a memory;
The past is not revisited.


That moment you leap free of yourself, the wine of the friend, in all its brilliance and dazzle, is held out to you.

---Jalal Al-Din Rumi

Everything is true just as it is:
Why dislike it?
Why hate it?

---Zen saying

Painting by Paul Charles Chocarne-Moreau (1855-1931): The Cunning Thief

So where are we on this Sunday? How are the Ohio Boards of Election proceeding and did Kerry's lawyers find anything? Various blogs are on fire with incidents and speculation, but the media is quiet---except an occasional report about the blogs. is virtually retired, with his concession speech being the most recent item.

David Cobb and Michael Bednarik (learn those names!) of the Green and Libertarian parties respectively issued a joint statement calling for a recount in Ohio. [link] They're well on the way to getting the fee together ($113,000) and Cobb said before the election that a Bush victory will ensure the Greens a major voice in the restructuring of the Democratic party. You're probably aware that they and Ralph Nader, of course, are demanding recounts in other states as well. At this point, I have not heard the Democrats have done so anywhere.

The questions about fraud and theft of the election however are rampant, at least on the Internet. Certainly is leading the charge, and the director of the organization Bev Harris has gone to Florida right now. Jackson Thoreau, a Washington DC-area journalist, summed up the concerns this way yesterday~~~

"Using a little-used law, a woman in Nevada has filed to recount that state. The law allows a recount if it's requested by five citizens who voted in that state and did not vote for the candidate who won.

"Also, Bev Harris of [link] and Ralph Nader had a press conference in DC Friday, announcing they have teamed up with [link] to set up a 527 special fund at [link] to pay for recounts.

"These recounts cost money, unfortunately, as the states want a down payment of ten dollars a precinct. Ohio is the first target for Harris and Nader in this joint effort, although Nader asked for a recount in New Hampshire to get the ball rolling and shine some light on the corrupt way the republicans stole the election. Nader is funding that NH recount himself, which is not near as costly as the Ohio one.

"If you can donate any money , go to [link] If you can't, please forward this to people who may be able to donate. If you can't access the site, it's because bush supporters have caused it to shut down. They plan to go to a specialist host who specializes in protecting web sites that are under attack constantly.

"This is a great opportunity. Don't let the reports in the mainstream media - except for some good work by Keith Olberman - confuse you. Most reports downplay the voter fraud investigations as 'conspiracy theories,' the same way they did the JFK assassination and others.

"This is real. There is real fraud here. REPUBLICAN FRAUD is why Kerry lost - don't listen to the crap about him not staying on the security message or religious right whackos turning out. It was FRAUD that stole this election from us. And we have to fight this as hard as we've fought anything."


BuzzFlash continues to update often from its point of view, but no followup anywhere to Dr. Steven Freeman's remarkable paper we were circulating Friday that asserts the statistical "impossibility" of wide discrepancy between exit polls and final tallies in those electronic voting states. [link]

The items at the Moritz College of Law at Ohio State have slowed markedly since the election, with the requests last week for review by members of the House to the General Accountability Office the most recent post. [link] However, a professor at the school, Dan Tokaji, maintains a brilliant, sound and stable blog (if disappointing to revolutionaries) to which he still posts a few times a day. He is following the fraud issue. [link]

The most startling blogsite at the moment is one of the most famous. Dana received notice of a post by Thomas Knapp in St. Louis, through her network and sent it on to many of us. Knapp claims he watched votes for Badnarik disappear off a screen on election night. [link] While disturbing, I was alarmed even more by the first comment to his entry on Monday morning by Brad Spangler:

"No, it does not at all imply a vast conspiracy. There's already evidence being gradually uncovered (by the folks at of an apparently pretty small conspiracy to keep those tabulating machines (Windows PCs) vulnerable.

"The actual vote total fixing could be done by one person -- especially one with months to prepare pre-written scripts ahead of time and who knows what resources.

"I could very easily see a whole zombie-net of trojaned Windows PCs being used for this. Possessed machines acting as gateways for controlling other possessed machines, God knows how many layers deep to insulate the actual human puppetmaster at the end of the daisy chain and cover their tracks, while making their traffic seem to come from several different points. I've seen rumors that those networks of thousands of compromised PCs are even rented out to other criminals at a rate of only a few hundred bucks an hour."

Spangler's also following various weirdness at his own site [link]

As for the newspapers, which I for one still need---especially after getting wild-eyed out in the blogosphere---the Seattle Post-Intelligencer is reporting the election challenges out there responsibly. Here's their story yesterday about accountability~~~


The Washington Post has an op-ed today about moral values~~~

[link] (free registration)

You have to look carefully through the New York Times today to get cheered up, but Frank Rich did it for me---as he declares unequivocally the Blues have won the Culture War. He concludes with this challenge to Demorats~~

"According to this argument, the values voters the Democrats must pander to are people like Cary and Tara Leslie, archetypal Ohio evangelical 'Bush votes come to life' apotheosized by The Washington Post right after Election Day. The Leslies swear by 'moral absolutes,' support a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage and mostly watch Fox News. Mr. Leslie has also watched his income drop from $55,000 to $35,000 since 2001, forcing himself, his wife and his three young children into the ranks of what he calls the 'working poor.' Maybe by 2008 some Democrat will figure out how to persuade him that it might be a higher moral value to worry about the future of his own family than some gay family he hasn't even met."

[link] (free registration)

The sage editorial writer there weighs in on the voting discrepancies~~~


And Maureen Dowd, of course, will send you scampering for another cup of coffee as she goes after Jones III, Dobson and the other evangelicals with a torch and hatchet of her own. :-)


Hope I saved you some time. Whew! After all this Cheney isn't the only one out of breath.

[< Back] [New Civilization News]



14 Nov 2004 @ 13:21 by vaxen : Better...
late than never. Though I would never vote for a man like Kerry the fact that two 'elections' have been stolen is a bit much. But I know the score. Gore quit. Kerry quit. To me they are all the same and I opt for a New Government entirely. I do mean the whole stinking lot of them, too...

Of course that won't happen. The Fascisti have planned and plotted, schemed and screamed, and imbedded their commands inside everyones' head who isn't capable of fighting back or even of thinking freely anymore and that is the 99% unfortunately. Fortunately, for me, I have a nano tech'd high kevlar and neopreen soft green suit of armor and a few ray guns and blue beam laser penetration weapons plus a nice saucer with which to make light of the fast coming new red dawn. So when the shit hits the fan and you've gotta go somewhere psi me.

Thanks for your interest jazzolog and thanks to all your friends too. But Kerry is one of THEM my friend. Even if you were to win you'd lose. ;) Love ya...  

14 Nov 2004 @ 13:31 by istvan : Good
that you are persuing this. Will join as time permits. Thanks.  

14 Nov 2004 @ 13:45 by jazzolog : Kerry Is One Of Them
We knew that. I even have a Heinz lapel pickle pin. But we also knew there was a difference between him and Bush---as we knew there was a difference between Gore and Bush. And so we had to work and we had to vote. We told all the Kerry people early on we were backing Kucinich until he conceded and urged us to join Kerry. That's what we did and why.

I don't have the suit, Vax, but maybe a cottage industry will start up so I can get one. Glad to know you're still with us, Istvan. Stop in some time: there's always chicken soup and paprikash on the stove.

This just in, from contacts in Ohio~~~

From: pete meyers
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 1:06 PM
Subject: [BushMustGo--Announcement] Re: Voter Suppression in Ohio
The following came from Donna Brooks in Columbus, Ohio regarding legal
challenges and the seeming fact that there weren't enough voting machines
in Ohio to accomodate people. Those who know of people who actually
encountered such problems in Ohio, please forward onto!
Laura Flanders said last night there ARE people who are working on a
legal challenge in Ohio for voter suppression tactics involving FEWER
VOTING MACHINES THAN USUAL in certain precincts. This happened in my
precinct. I noticed it right away and asked a poll worker why there
were only 3 machines instead of 4, when they had to be expecting record
turn-out? But I didn't realize that it was happening all over Ohio
until I started hearing other callers reporting it!
Anyway, since you have a lot of Columbus area listeners, have them send
the following information to:
They should include their:
Precinct number Address of their voting location Number of machines
present this time and number present in previous elections. Any other
observations that concerned them (such as machines breaking down, etc.)
THEIR CONTACT INFORMATION - Name, address, phone number, e-mail
The people collecting this information are gathering evidence that this
was a deliberate means of suppressing the vote and will need to contact
people to verify the validity of the reports, so people should only send
their own personal experiences, not hearsay, HOWEVER,---
Some people do not have e-mail accounts, don't have opportunity to hear
progressive radio, etc. SO,....
I suggest that even people outside of Ohio ask EVERYONE they know who
lives in Ohio if they had fewer voting machines than usual in their
voting location, and if they did, ask for THEIR contact information and
send it to Air America at the address above on their behalf.
PLEASE let people know about this ASAP. I am glad someone is actually
taking action on this!!
Recommended websites for taking action on protecting voting rights and
election reform in general:
And specifically for Ohio:  

14 Nov 2004 @ 20:02 by ov : Mainstream Lock Down
{|Letter from Roberta Cooper}

"On Friday I received a phone call from a good friend who works at CBS - I've known her for years and she is a Producer for some of the news programs, one well known one in particular. She tipped me off that the news media is in a "lock-down" and that there is to be no TV coverage of the real problems with voting on Nov. 2nd. She said similar "lock-down orders" had come down last year after the invasion of Iraq, but this is far worse - far scarier.

She said the majority of their journalists at CBS and elsewhere in NYC are pretty horrified - every one is worried about their jobs and retribution Dan Rather style or worse. My source said they've also been forbidden to talk about it even on their own time but she was pissed and her journalistic and moral integrity as what she considers to be a government watchdog requires her to speak out, even if covertly, and she therefore asked me to "spread" the word...She said that journalism and the truth is at stake. She said another friend of hers, a producer at MSNBC, said that an anchor by the name of Keith Olbermann had brought it up on his show on Friday eve and the axe came down. He's at least fighting back and talking about it on his "Blog", but she said that people there are worried that he's going to be fired by higher ups.

She said at this point the only way that the "real news" was going to be known is if the people started talking about it and made a big enough stink about it to our elected officials, the FEC, and "noise" to the international media, that our own media won't have any choice but to cover it. The only place you'll see this talked about right now is on the internet and on AirAmericaRadio."

The rest of the link contains phone numbers and addresses of people that you can contact to make a difference.


Bev Harris from black box voting has a few suggestions on how each of us can become the media and transfer the word from the internet into the community.

14 Nov 2004 @ 21:04 by quinty @ : Radio coverage

Pacifica has been covering the unfolding story in Ohio. Larry Bensky, of KPFA in Berkeley, was there recently and taped the hearings. They plan to air them, though Benksy - as of this morning - wasn't sure yet when.

Larry Bensky is excellent, by the way (unless you should happen to be over there on the right) and can be heard Sunday's from noon until two (Eastern time).

For their schedule or to pick up the Berkeley station on the web:  

14 Nov 2004 @ 22:10 by vaxen : Gee...
6 billion smackeroos worth of new and yummie touch screen electronic voting machines and STILL not enough? Wow, who would've thought? Yeah, that's it...WHO? Obviously no one thought. Or maybe 'vote strike' never dawned on anyone. Sheeple 'leading' sheeple to the NWO slaughter house. Interesting how you just do what you are told. Was'nt that a famous 'Nuremburg' defense as well?

Seems the proverbial s**t is hitting the fan in Atlanta, too, as there seem to be just scads of disenfranchised 'blacks' there whose 'votes' somehow just were'nt tallied. A return to tally sticks maybe? Tally ho! (In Buttermilk bottom 'ho' means something, at least.)  

14 Nov 2004 @ 22:50 by jazzolog : Sheeple Holmes And Doctor Who
More of the letter mentioned by Ov~~~

On Friday I received a phone call from a good friend who works at CBS -
known her for years and she is a Producer for some of the news
programs, one
well known one in particular. She tipped me off that the news media is
in a
"lock-down" and that there is to be no TV coverage of the real problems
voting on Nov. 2nd. She said similar "lock-down orders" had come down
year after the invasion of Iraq, but this is far worse - far scarier.
said the majority of their journalists at CBS and elsewhere in NYC are
pretty horrified - every one is worried about their jobs and
retribution Dan
Rather style or worse. My source said they've also been forbidden to
about it even on their own time but she was pissed and her journalistic
moral integrity as what she considers to be a gov't watchdog requires
her to
speak out, while be it covert and she therefore asked me to "spread" the

She said that journalism and the truth is at stake. She said another
of hers, a producer at MSNBC, said that an anchor by the name of Keith
Olbermann had brought it up on his show on Friday eve and the axe came

He's at least fighting back and talking about it on his "Blog", but she
that people there are worried that he's going to be fired by higher
ups. She
said at this point the only way that the "real news" was going to be if
people started talking about it and made a big enough stink about it to
elected officials, the FEC, and "noise" to the international media,
that our
own media won't have any choice but to cover it. (Yes, this is really
happening in the good ole' supposed "democratic" free press of the US
of A).
The only place you'll see this talked about right now is on the
internet and
on AirAmericaRadio.

In an email I sent you last night, I used the F-word - FRAUD and
mentioned to you that I felt strongly that there is a lot of mounting
evidence that this election was not clean. I say that not only out of a
result of my observations while out in the field as a poll watcher in
key battleground state of Ohio, I say it with the knowledge and
of reports that have been circulating around the country in various
precincts involving irregularities and problems with the voting
machines and
numbers not matching up with the exit polls or actual numbers of
voters in various precincts. I've been busy researching this issue and
compiling for you below some details of these reports and where you can
more info:

To believe that Bush won the election, you must also believe:

1- That the exit polls were WRONG...(remember - they have been used for
a decade and considered reliable)

2- That Zogby's 5pm election day calls for Kerry winning OH, FL were
He was within a less than 1/2 % point margin of error in his 2000 final
and previous polls for other elections.

3- That Harris Poll last minute polling for Kerry was WRONG. They were
within a 1/2% point margin of error in their 2000 final poll.

4- The Incumbent Rule #I (that undecideds primarily break at the end
for the
challenger) was WRONG.

5- The 50% Rule was WRONG (that an incumbent doesn't do better than his
final polling)

6- The Approval Rating Rule was WRONG (that an incumbent with less than
approval will most likely lose the election)

7- That Journalist Greg Palast was WRONG when he said that even before
the election, 1 million votes were stolen from Kerry. He was the ONLY
reporter to break the fact that 90,000 Florida blacks were
disnfranchised in

8- That it was just a COINCIDENCE that the exit polls were CORRECT where
there WAS a PAPER TRAIL and INCORRECT (+5% for Bush) where there was NO

15 Nov 2004 @ 01:21 by astrid : This is so funny, guys….

…I just can’t stop laughing!…..What those dufueses do or don’t do, really shouldn’t matter to us. What matters to us is how we choose to conduct our lives: support them with our fears while fulfilling all our “Social Obligations”, 99 % BRAINWASHED or maybe branded into our minds through the Domestication-processs, as Miguel Ruiz calls it. OR…. Do we choose to support Mother Earth instead, through finding ways to go 180
degrees away from > opposite, from what the Bozos wants us? THAT is the Question we HAVE to answer very soon! Or it will be answered for us by Mother Earth…. :)  

15 Nov 2004 @ 01:45 by vaxen : Oo!
"She said journalism and truth is at stake." Fancy that, mentioning journalism and truth in the same sentence! Amazing...

And that little bit about Air America Radio? Isn't/wasn't 'Air America' a front for 'The Company?' What world did you say this is?

Fractured funnies could'nt be any funnier.

Oh, I know there are some, less than 50% of this nation (eine folk, eine reich, eine fuhrer?), who are awfully serious about this shtuck but it just gets funnier and funnier.

Let's go nuke Iran!  

15 Nov 2004 @ 01:53 by ov : Forget about the politicians
I have mixed feelings on this. Even with this voting irregularities we are still only talking about a couple of percent, if that, and yet that is enough to determine if tweedle dee or tweedle dumb get the presidency. So if you apply a little rounding theory, in more ways than one, its six of one and a half dozen of the other. I'd like to see Bush's victory finally declared illegal so there is a legal technicality to roll back some of the damage he has done to the system. At the same time I'd rather see Bush in office than Kerry, because Bush is more honest, he has come right out and declared his contempt for diplomacy, the electorate and international law, and he has stated that he is going to do whatever he wants; heh, at least he's honest.

The electorate, both the left and the right, are masochists and would rather take the submissive role and howl in pain rather than have to accept the responsiblity for making the difficult decisions themselves. It is up to each individual to get their life in order so that they will be able to function once the US crashes back into third world status.

{|Important Choices}, I've said it before, but I like this one so I'll say it again.  

15 Nov 2004 @ 09:42 by jazzolog : That News Lock-Down
The version, originally posted by Ov yesterday and then expanded by me, also reached Dana and she decided to research it. She put phrases from the statement into Google and came up with this at Rense~~~ As you can see the author is none other than actor and activist Peter Coyote. I would say we now are ringing a rather bigger and louder bell of alarm. Google shows a couple of Roberta Coopers, either of whom could be the one Ov refers to, but I think I'll stick with Coyote.

As you can see, there's an added opening~~~

"There is a bumper sticker I saw months ago that sums up the current state of affairs in our country regarding what is the biggest news story you'll never see on the General Media reported. It said 'IF YOUR NOT OUTRAGED, YOUR NOT PAYING ATTENTION'".

(Naturally I'd be happier with YOU'RE NOT PAYING ATTENTION.) And there is more to the ending~~~

"9- That the surge in new young voters had NO positive effect for Kerry, even though it was the largest number of youth voters 18-29 ever and a huge jump from 2000 and they were over 55% in favor of Kerry.
"10- That Bush BEAT 99 to 1 mathematical odds in winning the election.
"11- That Kerry did WORSE than Gore against an opponent who LOST the support of SCORES of Republican newspapers who were for Bush in 2000.
"12- That Bush did better than an 18 national poll average which showed him tied with Kerry at 47. In other words, Bush got 80% of the undecided vote to end up with a 51-48 majority--when ALL professional pollsters agree that the undecided vote ALWAYS goes to the challenger.
"13- That Voting machines made by Republicans with no paper trail and with no software publication, which have been proven by thousands of computer scientists to be vulnerable in scores of ways, were NOT tampered with in this election.
"Some Examples: (There are many more, but I won't list them all here--this is to give you an idea)
"- The City of Gahanna in Ohio discovered a discrepancy that gave 4,000 votes to George Bush. After media scrutiny, city officials have admitted to an electronic 'glitch' that caused the problem.
"- In Broward County, FL, errors in software code caused a referendum on gambling to be completely overturned. The error caused totals to count backwards after reaching a ceiling of 32,500 votes. The problem existed in the 2002 election as well however the issue was never resolved by the manufacturer of the electronic voting machine.
"- In North Carolina, a Craven County district logged 11,283 more votes than voters and actually overturned the results of a regional race.
For more info, go to:
{link:} "

So now we've pieced the whole message together, but I'm thinking this morning the ball is in Kerry's court. If he does nothing more, it's over.  

15 Nov 2004 @ 15:24 by dempstress : Sorry guys
but being at such a distance I'm not sure I'm getting the big picture here. Could someone summarise for me?  

15 Nov 2004 @ 16:03 by jazzolog : Here Is A Brief News Report
That would be the CBC. Nothing brief at BBC.

************** (dead air)
(That's a broadcasting technical term.)

Excuse me, the dramatic pause was your commentator thinking back to the last time in British history when the big picture was in evidence. At any rate over here across the pond, this past weekend was probably the time in which some announcement of challenge would have come from John Kerry and the Democrats. It still may come I suppose, but the iron isn't exactly hot anymore. I am guessing Kerry's counsel see no grounds for either recount in any state or charging fraud or some other legal discrepancy.

We only can imagine the election results had Powell resigned in October. As it is, we have Gonzales offered as Attorney General---the man who advised Bush to ignore the Geneva Conventions and torture people at Guantanamo and Abu Graib...and wrote the legal brief for doing so. Who will be Secretary of State now? Condaleeza? The big picture in the States, my dear Caroline, may be to head for Vaxen's cave!


This bulletin just in: the White House spells her name Condoleezza. I never knew that.  

15 Nov 2004 @ 20:24 by ov : Recount
Guess I should have done more research, but then that is what these forums are for. Whether or not there is a news lockdown will depend on what we don't hear, and how much of it we don't hear, the dead air as Jazz says. If the elections were legitimate, then I would think that a credible expert would be on the air killing each rumor point by point, but when they simply ignore the issue they give credibility to the evidence, and the evidence says the vote was rigged.

But this couldn't have been done unless the election was close in the first place. Lots of reasons for why it was so close. Who would have guessed that one of the biggest reasons was that some gay getting stooked is more of a moral issue than the genocide of the middle east (yeah, yeah, I know the job isn't finished yet but how long do you have to hold out the benifit of the doubt before you recognize a trend).

The cynical side says Kerry was the political strawman from the get go, and that he was scheduled to roll over and bare his throat at the first opportunity. But maybe he had good intentions and was betrayed, like maybe he took the lesser of two evils, the greater evil being that if he didn't roll over the entire democratic institution would lose credibility, irreparably and irredeemable.

At the risk of letting Hollywood shape my sense of history, and a knowledgable Scot is sure to set me right on this twit that I may be, but let me Wallace forth in Braveheart and suggest that Kerry is Robert the Bruce betrayed by the poxed curmudgeon that sired him.

Personaly I'm a cynic and especially when it comes to American politics and I think the fix was confirmed when Kerry refused to push for the paper ballot, or at least some kind of security audit.  

15 Nov 2004 @ 20:45 by jazzolog : There WILL Be A Recount In Ohio
Just got the email~~~

Recount in Ohio a Sure Thing
t r u t h o u t | Press Release

Monday 15 November 2004

Green Party Campaign Raises $150,000 in 4 Days, Shifts Gears to Phase II
WASHINGTON -- November 15 -- There will be a recount of the presidential vote in Ohio.

On Thursday, David Cobb, the Green Party’s 2004 presidential candidate, announced his intention to seek a recount of the vote in Ohio. Since the required fee for a statewide recount is $113,600, the only question was whether that money could be raised in time to meet the filing deadline. That question has been answered.

“Thanks to the thousands of people who have contributed to this effort, we can say with certainty that there will be a recount in Ohio,” said Blair Bobier, Media Director for the Cobb-LaMarche campaign.

“The grassroots support for the recount has been astounding. The donations have come in fast and furiously, with the vast majority in the $10-$50 range, allowing us to meet our goal for the first phase of the recount effort in only four days,” said Bobier.

Bobier said the campaign is still raising money for the next phase of the recount effort which will be recruiting, training and mobilizing volunteers to monitor the actual recount.

The Ohio presidential election was marred by numerous press and independent reports of mis-marked and discarded ballots, problems with electronic voting machines and the targeted disenfranchisement of African American voters. A number of citizens’ groups and voting rights organizations are holding the second of two hearings today in Columbus, Ohio, to take testimony from voters, poll watchers and election experts about problems with the Ohio vote. The hearing, from 6-9 p.m., will be held at the Courthouse, meeting room A, 373 S. High St., in Columbus. The Cobb-LaMarche campaign will be represented at the hearing by campaign manager Lynne Serpe.

A demand for a recount in Ohio can only be filed by a presidential candidate who was either a certified write-in candidate or on the ballot in that state. Both Green Party candidate David Cobb and Libertarian candidate Michael Badnarik will be demanding a recount. No other candidate has stated an intention to seek a recount and no other citizen or organization would have legal standing to do so in Ohio. The Cobb-LaMarche campaign is still exploring the possibility of seeking recounts in other states but no decision has been made yet.  

15 Nov 2004 @ 20:56 by ov : Recount
I like that last little bit of news Jazz. So Nader and the Greens may have some influence after all, hehe. Could it be that the RoveMeister underestimated the potential of that camel's nose of legal technicality; ie thought that Kerry was the only one who could legally demand a recount.  

15 Nov 2004 @ 21:07 by dempstress : Congrats
on the recount. Also sorry about the 'twit', Ov, which have removed.  

15 Nov 2004 @ 21:54 by astrid : Oh, my Dear Freedom sister
...... I just came in here to leave a little note to your Profile, saying: I don't mind at all being your a little dorky sis.-friend! But now I'm confused, I could sworn your orig. comment said: " astrid, do you know the English meaning of the word twit....etc? felt like adressed to me. I did not see ov mentioned there. Anyway, I did some "reaseach" on the word, just to be sure....You cracked me up. could'n stop other words, there was a lot of loving, though maybe irritated, energy in it, but no animosity or belittlement, just irritation.... Am I right or am I "out there" ( again ?)  

15 Nov 2004 @ 21:55 by dempstress : No,
I guess you're probably right. And you were also right about the original: it was just Ov that pulled me up about it.  

15 Nov 2004 @ 22:33 by ov : What about Bruce
that was the comparison that I was looking for some confirmation on. Was Mel Gibson's story accurate or did he play loose with the truth?

I think that the BushCo might be getting a little nervous about how the vote fraud think won't die. Despite the news lock down, and the pundits offically declaring this topic as tin foil beany territory. So what is occupying the news these days, could it be those wascally tewwoists, oooh they make me sooo mad. {|Google on "nuclear Al Qaida"}  

15 Nov 2004 @ 23:15 by dempstress : Bruce?
Well, Mel looked well sexy and that, but I believe the general consensus was that it wasn't exactly an historical doucmentary. But then again, history being written by the victors, what do we know about what actually was? God knows we're living through history and do we know what is? Do I know what the people next door had for breakfast, let alone what those in 'control' of stuff are doing, let alone trying to do? God: not sure what I had for breakfast......  

15 Nov 2004 @ 23:58 by scotty : um - I hope
that this throws a little light on the matter ... {}
(don't believe too much anything Caroline might say - the poor dear is English !)  

16 Nov 2004 @ 00:59 by astrid : vaxen,
....your comment: " Oo "
is that a (sarcastic) response to me/my comment: "This is so funny, guys" or do you refer to some/one/thing else??? ( if it is to me , I can re-write the comment not quite so "shorthand"; dimly-said,-dimly-thought-version, but a little more complete -as in clarified.... Let me know. :)  

16 Nov 2004 @ 04:20 by vaxen : The Oo...
was for this little ditty in the OV piece above that "Oo": "She said journalism and truth is at stake." Journalism and truth in one sentence together just made me Oooooooooooo. Had nothing to do with anything you said, Astrid. ;)  

16 Nov 2004 @ 09:21 by jazzolog : Dempstress Is Initiated
Her NCN wings are fledging out quite nicely at last. Tweet, tweet. Fortunately Astrid has demonstrated a sense of lightness and humor before, under fire from some of the heaviest guns at this spiritually uplifting website. As we wait and pray for some light to come in this Ohio recount, let me stir up the fire a bit and toss on some more twigs. It's cold here tonight. Of course, deep in Vax' cave it's always 50 Fahrenheit. How's the weather in Guadeloup?  

17 Nov 2004 @ 10:00 by jazzolog : What IS The Ohio Recount?
In this state (and perhaps others in the Union---at least it used to be called the Union) any candidate legally may demand a recount of all the votes. At the same time, designated representatives may audit the process---but that would involve a lot of people, since each county has a Board of Election and there are 88 counties in Ohio. The fee the candidate must pay for this is $10 per precinct---which may sound like quite a bargain, except that a precinct may include just a few city blocks. The price turns out to be quite a bargain anyway. Here's an email I just sent out to a bunch of activists around here, which may include some more detail~~~

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Christopher Berry"
To: "Mark Spring"
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 12:10 AM
Subject: Re: Wow, here it goes

Actually it is being covered, I found it on Drudge and on WCPO, the local
Cincinnati Scripps-Howard TV station. This story isn't very old, and there
will probally be more outlets pickin up coverage of it once the recount
actually starts b/c like it or not, it will make for a more interesting
story then. Patience...

the wcpo story is at the link below


What I've been noticing (and oh gee, here goes another Reply All and a half
hour's work on my Address Book down the drain---and isn't this the same
Kevin who wanted to be deleted from these?) is, as Kevin says, a slight
pickup in coverage, but it seems almost begrudging. You know, "damned
boat-rockers" attitude. Essentially the story is 4 paragraphs the
Associated Press wrote originally, with emphasis that David Cobb is a
nobody, and the Blackwell office comment that the recount actually will cost
the state 10 times what the Greens and Libertarians are paying for it.
(Hey, it must be Blackwell's price tag. Why blame us?) Initially I'm
alarmed the recount won't begin until after Blackwell certifies the election
(December 3rd), but upon consideration maybe that's a good thing since his
dark deeds will get the spotlight if anything turns up missing or wrong.

David Cobb is from Eureka, California, where the Greens have an expanding
base. His hometown paper is carrying the story with a bit more of an upbeat
tone, and more information about the problems he's going after in Ohio.
{link:,1413,127~2896~2538412,00.html} Of
course the lead story is about the dogs killing the bears up there.


Eureka Times-Standard

Cobb campaign announces Ohio recount progress
By Sara Watson Arthurs The Times-Standard

Tuesday, November 16, 2004 -

Last week, former Green Party presidential candidate David Cobb announced he would seek a recount of the presidential vote in Ohio. Within four days, he'd received donations for the $113,600 filing fee.

Cobb, a Eureka resident, is joined by Libertarian presidential candidate Michael Badnarik in the effort.

"Thanks to the thousands of people who have contributed to this effort, we can say with certainty that there will be a recount in Ohio," said Blair Bobier, Media Director for the Cobb-LaMarche campaign. "The grass-roots support for the recount has been astounding. The donations have come in fast and furiously."

Cobb said donations close to $150,000 came in small amounts from citizens all over the country. Most checks were for $10 to $25, with just two over $1,000, he said.

Citizens groups and voting rights organizations were expected to meet in Columbus on Monday to take testimony from voters, poll watchers and election experts.

Cobb said the details are still emerging but he's heard reports of voting irregularities, including voting machines with screens that "jumped" to a vote for President George Bush whether the voter intended it or not; "intolerably long lines" in minority and low-income precincts; letters sent to voters in those communities misleading them about election process; and longtime voters whose names could not be found on voter rolls.

In another widely reported glitch, one machine recorded more votes for Bush than there were total voters.

Cobb said he's also heard that 92,000 ballots in Ohio were discarded for apparent undervote or overvoting -- meaning voters voted for more candidates than they could, or for no candidates.

"This suggests another hanging chad problem," Cobb said. "To simply discard 92,000 votes when only 136,000 votes separate the winner from the loser is problematic at best."

He added that the Ohio secretary of state, a Republican, has the final say over which of 50,000 provisional ballots are counted.

Cobb stressed that the purpose of the recount is to ensure integrity of the voting process.

"I don't expect to win Ohio," he said. "But the Green Party has been standing up for democracy and the right for all voters to cast their votes."

He said he can't file the demand for a recount until the election results are certified, which is expected to happen this week. After that, he said, the Cobb campaign will continue to raise money to make it possible to have people examine the vote recount.

Bobier said the campaign is still raising money for the next phase of the recount effort, which will be recruiting, training and mobilizing volunteers to monitor the actual recount.

© 2004 Times - Standard

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