New Civilization News: Applied Confront Scale: The Grand Delusion of 'Positive Thinking'    
 Applied Confront Scale: The Grand Delusion of 'Positive Thinking'23 comments
picture20 Jun 2007 @ 18:55, by Max Sandor

We had some help the other day from people from Rome and Florence who never experienced the confront scale setup (see last post) and I tested a quad-pole configuration during a one-day workshop, with 'wanted', 'not-wanted', 'power of choice' (Eshu), and Identity. We rechecked last night with another crew (thank you for coming all the way from Genova!!).

The result is an applied confront scale for achieving a wanted goal.

It turned out to be a devastating defeat for the meme of 'Positive Thinking'. Not that I ever believed in this meme as it is being sold. In the contrary. But, until last night, I never felt I had enough proof in my hands (for myself) to honestly challenge this meme.

(Make a test yourself: check out the first hundred pages on Google on 'Positive Thinking': EVERYONE IN THIS WORLD is praising Positive Thinking and EVERYONE of those guys are SELLING books and videos on this subject!!)

In short, ANY ATTACHMENT to a desired object will result in that object to go AWAY, and NOT to be attracted. That's the fine print nobody is telling you selling their stuff. WHERE ARE ALL THOSE HAPPY PEOPLE OF THE POSITIVE THINKING fad? The answer is simple: they are winding up in the shits, and that's why they won't talk. The only one who wins is the bookseller.

There IS a winning strategy, Lao-Tzu already talked about it some thousand years ago: relinquish attachment to the positive pole and resistance to the negative and ACT as if the result wouldn't matter! In other words, NEUTRALIZE the opposing poles of your goal and GO AHEAD!

See the diagram for your other options (there are NONE, except for deliberatly resisting that what you want (Ed Dawson coined it the 'Other Pole Technology' in our book 'Polar Dynamics 1')!

Good luck!

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21 Jun 2007 @ 07:58 by Merlin Silk @ : thinking v. feeling
Yeah - very good! In my little blurb {|The Local Guru} I mentioned a situation which was disturbing for exactly that reason.

The trap is probably that some people who apparently practice 'positive thinking' have success - OK, not the first 100 on google though ;-)

But as I see it at this time the positive thinking they do is not what causes the success, they think positive because there is a positive emotion, a feeling behind that. And with your great observation, Mx, it because clearer for me why that is actually working: A real emotion can only exist persistently when there is no polarity any more. Things just are, no worries and no surprises - just are.

This positive thinkin' is something like All rich people brush their teeth - so I have to brush my teeth so that I will be rich - - - hmmm, do really all rich people brush their teeth?  

21 Jun 2007 @ 17:01 by Ed Dawson @ : Other Pole
Precisely: Other Pole technique is NOT a matter of resisting what you want, so much as DESIRING the negative pole. the purpose of this is to remove the resistance.

21 Jun 2007 @ 19:02 by mx @ : oops
precisely... how could I swap this?? must be polarized ??  

22 Jun 2007 @ 00:52 by Ed Dawson @ : I know you know
Must have been a temporary brainfart...


22 Jun 2007 @ 05:22 by a-d : to make a difinite DECICION
about wanting (to accomplish) something is also a pretty important step!.... think about it!...  

22 Jun 2007 @ 10:16 by mx @ : decision process
the above presumed a made decision.
these days we working overtime to come to a better picture of exactly that.
the confront scale was a by-product of that investigation.

the 'decision process' is so profoundly connected to the basic purpose of life that it seems impossible to write much about it... or so I think...

just meditate for a while about the decision as a computation or as a 'free' choice... presuming that free choice would exist, any computation would 'preempt' it (cancel it)...

perhaps the energy of 'free choice' is the underlying goal of the game of life?? and then, how to get it without entering computations???
(just for starters, hehe)..  

22 Jun 2007 @ 10:29 by mx @ : to Merlin: do rich people think positive
Merlin, it seems to me a modern urban legend that rich people think positive. They think like other people, sometimes positive, sometimes negative, but mostly they are NOT thinking. Especially not about money. They KNOW they can have success and, accepting the risk of failure, they ACT towards an accomplishment. They don't need to think about it in any way.

The Positive Thinking is a 'Guru Movement' like you have seen for yourself. Sadly enough, besides drawing money from the unsuspecting, they keep the people in darkness about their own nature and even MORE subject to manipulation..  

22 Jun 2007 @ 15:07 by Ed Dawson @ : when it works
Positive thinking does work on a small percentage of people, Max. I suspect the few who can use it have life odus with ogbe on the inside and something weaker on the outside. And a positive vector stronger than the negative of course...

This would be what? One person in 30 or so?  

22 Jun 2007 @ 22:58 by ming : Positive thinking
Well, as usual, our human words often cover up what is behind them. Yes, "positive thinking" works for some people, and not for others. Because they're using the same words about different phenomena.

Positive thinking in a polarized way is likely to not work, or to get the opposite result, because you of course energize the opposition as well, and you don't control that part.

Even saying that "positive thinking doesn't work" tends to create a polarization. That sort of, kind of means that the opposite is true, the way I hear it. Which is what? Negative thinking works? Or does negative thinking not work? Does thinking work? What do we mean "work"? Obviously some things work, and it probably isn't the words that work.

"Positive" to some people might imply polarization. To others it might merely mean to do that which you want to do, and not that which you don't want.

The tricky paradox is that it only tends to work if one is not attached, not polarized. If one could care less, but still one chooses one possibility over another. Like, rich people make money easier than poor people, because they don't have the urgent need, which tends to be polarizing. It is just a game.

A bunch of the people who sell books about positive thinking are rich, so obviously it works for them. Positive thinking seems to be what made them rich, even if it was in the form of books and videos. The theme of their getting rich was obviously "positive thinking". So, what part didn't work?

It is just a symbol for what one really does, which is a bit more complicated, of course. Or, more simple, rather. The answer to the riddle of how one can get what one wants without needing or wanting anything.  

23 Jun 2007 @ 02:36 by mx @ : analyzing claims of Pos.Thinking
That people who sell books on Positive Thinking (PT) are rich, doesn't mean they did it themselves.

All claims I analyzed showed that the person GAVE UP on their goal RIGHT BEFORE it fulfilled itself. The bungee-cord effect of a charged goal made it happen, NOT the positive thinking process (which WILL INVARIABLY destroy the opportunity).

Check it out, Flemming, EVERYONE who claims Positive Thinking to work, is SELLING it (or something based on it).

Saw the movie 'The Secret'??? For me, it's just to fuel the rat race and make people stop thinking of what they REALLY want in live.

Ed, interview the people you think have success with this again and check out what happened the moment BEFORE they achieved their goal(s)...  

23 Jun 2007 @ 17:01 by ming : Success
A great deal of stories of success I've run into will involve some moment of giving up, yes. And, yes, you're right, that tends to be where one succeeds. Same thing with stories of enlightenment. But people who start off by giving up might not make it anywhere. Rather, I think it is the right kind of tension between wanting something, working on it, and giving up, or letting go, or not caring.

For example, a piece of advice about preparing for giving a speech is to prepare by filling your mind with stuff you might talk about, ideas, stories, examples, etc, more than you possibly could need. Then relax, forget about it, go to sleep, and show up the next day and just say whatever happens to come to you in the moment. But it is the combination of some kind of concerted effort and the letting go that makes it work well. If one just let go up front and didn't care, one might not give a good speech, unless one happened to be somebody who has a lot of material ready already.  

23 Jun 2007 @ 20:21 by Merlin Silk @ : letting go v. not having
I have to contribute a story of my own: After a project that made me good money which had suddenly ended I started to struggle, did odd things like selling life insurances (yes, indeed, I did!), but kept my eyes on another computer project.
There was this one project that looked very promising but it dragged out and dragged out. I still have the moment right in front of me where I walked through the lobby of a hotel where we had one of those meetings to hype us up to sell more life insurances. I was disgusted of all this crap going on and in the process of being annoyed I also really let go of the idea of getting this computer job, I mean from the depth of my heart I said 'f**k it' - - the very moment I get a call/message that I got that computer job (for the heck I can't remember how I got the call/message in the hotel because at that time there were no cell phones - but the universe goes it's mysterious ways.)

I have tried to recreate this situation a few times - always without success because for one I tried to imagine I had something (like that good promise of the job) instead of really having it and also for the fact of trying to get go in order to have something - somehow this tricking oneself does not work, darn!

I guess in order to get go of something you first have to have it, right - kinda logical.

Mx, yes, I agree about the rich people - they are not any different in their positive or negative or non-at-all thinking. In this one regard of money they just have a different reality - and we don't think much about reality - that kind of reality that is so obvious that you - duh! - don't think about ;-)  

23 Jun 2007 @ 23:02 by mx @ : remember 20 yrs ago, Merlin?
There we were at Los Feliz, the Alley of the Happy Ones, hehe, at the round table, and we talked about how to bring about 'events'. You said, in cases were it REALLY matters, I stop dreaming and have only the 'reality' it will turn out that way. Stop dreaming was the key point I remember...
The story of the white rabbit at the entrance to Merlin's castle at Glastonbury was in remembrance of that conversation we had 20 years ago (albeit with a new twist)

23 Jun 2007 @ 23:17 by a-d : Connections, all I have to say....One's "SUCCESS" as defined by the Establishment and within its echelons are one hundred % proportional ( hence dependent) on one's CONNECTIONS... period! ALL ELSE is hogwash smokescreens -to fool people like...............; )

Success OUTSIDE the Box is a completely "different story" and follow completely different rules!....  

24 Jun 2007 @ 04:12 by Merlin Silk @ : it's just like yesterday
Sure, Mx, I remember that and I still think that this is how it should be - albeit I guess I lost my groove a bit here - I guess the rabbit story helped - thanks! ;-))  

25 Jun 2007 @ 16:35 by anandavala : It's egoic thinking that doesn't work...
IMHO it's not as simple as saying that positive thinking doesn't work - it all revolves around the ego... I'm starting to sound like a broken record but it's true - virtually all the strange quirks in our world revolve around the ego.

If it's something the ego wants then it's usually part of a delusion - the ego's whole world is mostly a delusion and its strategies are usually delusional - so it constantly comes into conflict with reality and the harder it tries to achieve something the further that something gets - just look at the governments of the world trying to get 'security' and what does it get them? - it's because they are lost in mass egoic delusion.

If they were in touch with reality they would know that security comes from good holistic relations and strong ties based on positive benefits that they can share - but having more weapons and tighter control just creates a field of fear and insecurity that breaks down the fabric of the network of relations and it doesn't matter how much weaponry and control you have because you only make more enemies both within and without and you can never be invincible.

The way for them to get security is to stop worrying about "the issue of security" and to get on with encouraging vital, open and compassionate nations and then security will fall into their lap.

But egos just don't get it :( they usually cling to their delusions until just as they think they are about to achieve their goal the ground drops out from under their feet and they slide into some hellish nightmare thinking "how did that happen? - life is so cruel!"

But when the ego lets the real being live in reality and stops wallowing in its delusional thought constructs then life can be so blissful :) and holistic positive thinking (as in a deeply positive attitude) is a VERY powerful tool!!!! Because with our thoughts we make the world (i.e. that subjective cognitive construct that most people just assume is an objective external world). As these subjective worlds resonate together they create a cultural world. It can be one of fear and insecurity that is driven by a confused craving for security or it can be one of joy and communion that is driven by open awareness of reality.  

25 Jun 2007 @ 20:13 by a-d : Exactly
my point! Great Minds...heheheh....  

25 Jun 2007 @ 20:35 by solomoreno : Suicide and the Other Pole...
Thank you so much for the diagram!

I wanted to contribute a few interesting “facts” I have encountered in a book I am reading called, “Why People Die By Suicide.” Ed even mentions suicide in his explication of the “Other Pole” technique. I have read that a large majority of people who attempt suicide by jumping from high places and survive admit to regretting it in mid-air. Could this be a “mid-air polarity neutralization?” Also, suicide “victims” who have ingested bichloride of mercury will, if they survive the first few days of pure agony, experience a short remission period that is once again followed by more agony and then almost always death. One doctor said that in every case he has experienced, his patients displayed a renewed vigor and zest for life during this remission period. So I guess the trick is to kill oneself without actually killing oneself? To completely give up without completely giving up? Pretty tricky. Hmmm, I’ve realized that a large part of my fascination with suicide and hence my reason for reading the book is that it ultimately represents pursuit of the other pole. It's odd and oddly consistent that what society considers the most abominable and insane act is in most cases a desperate pursuit of wholeness.  

26 Jun 2007 @ 00:39 by Ed Dawson @ : answering solomoreno
I suspect that the jumpers are having the urge to survive (ika) kick in very hard via the meat body.The backbrain (reptilian brain) of the meat body has a primary goal of survive.

Keep in mind when using Other Pole, that the point of it is to relieve the charge on the polarity by desiring in the opposite direction, thus unblocking it.

There is a more advanced form recently authored by Chris Melchior (using my advice on pole structures) that has basically made Other Pole obsolete. the new process is called 4-pole gunas. It consists of doing the gunas process on both the normal polarity, AND the same polarity with positive and negative reversed, at the same time.

So for example in ika, survive is the positive pole and succumb is the negative. Add to that, a pole of succumbing as a good idea and suviving as a bad idea, and you have four poles.

The normal polarity poles are called "light poles". The reversed polarity poles are called "shadow poles". The process is gunas on all four. It rips polarities apart, but leaves the item intact (it doesn't vanish) and usable by conscious intention.


26 Jul 2007 @ 12:59 by joda : ooops!
You let the cat out of the bag, Max...

Interesting, how people cling to this "think positive" idea. It would be better to teach them to THINK at all in the first place, before they try positive, negative, or anything between. It never occurs to them that such philosophy cannot even be tested for workability, because it contains the terrible loop:

1)I have a method to get what I want.
2)If I do it right I will get what I want.
3)Ooops, I din't get what I want...I must have misapplied the method...

In most cases those people don't even question "the method" and even when they do, there is always another guy who sells the same bullshit wrapped in different cover and poor folks fall into the trap again. And again. And again.

And so the "New Age" business thrives. Spiritual Cointelpro guys have been busy beavers since the 50's...

Anyway..I'm glad to see you post this stuff here, Max.

Best regards,


4 Sep 2008 @ 12:50 by Michelle @ : The Confront Scale
I enjoyed you article, thanks.
I am trying to get more info on the confront scale and hoped you would direct me to a good source. I would love to know its origin also. Hope you can help.  

23 May 2010 @ 17:16 by Dave @ : What?
I've USED positive thinking, I still do, and I get great results. "Move forward" how exactly? If you've got something better, I'll grab it up, absolutely.  

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