|New Civilization News: Terror in Madrid|
Category: Violence, War
28 comments12 Mar 2004 @ 10:42 by govi : Hi¡¡
Hello Ming Thanks for your attention in these painful moments, in which we are immersed.
12 Mar 2004 @ 11:51 by shawa : We live in Spain
So yes, it´s being hard, though not as hard as if we were living around or near Madrid. We know people there, however, a lot! And we´re talking, after the event.
Very interesting analysis you make, Ming. Goes along the same line we share here.
12 Mar 2004 @ 12:53 by magical_melody : Very good Flemming,
Your words are spot on, "So, if you follow my logic here, 9-11 was most likely masterminded by folks who wanted to turn the United States into a much more tightly controlled society, and who wanted greatly increased power and resources given to military activities, with greatly lessened checks and balances"
And yes you got that right about people abstracting personal tragedies because they are way over there. It is time to put all the pieces together. That means giving voice and taking actions now which facilitate this one voice being heard in every quadrant of the world. Yes and goodbyes to Aznar and Bush, and to their agendas!
12 Mar 2004 @ 16:45 by lugon @18.104.22.168 : thanks!
We're trying to interpret things before the election.
I guess we people have this tendency to reinforce whatever belief we previously had.
In my mind my vote should be used to say goodbye to Aznar. I said no to an unjust, illegal, criminal war in Irak.
Now I interpret it like this: if it was ETA, then Aznar (and what he represents) is guilty of not letting people talk their wishes in the open. If it's Al Qaeda, then Aznar is guilty of taking young men born within our frontiers (whatever frontiers mean, but those in power are responsible) to the Irak war.
On the other hand, the other political parties are ... well, also political parties.
But at least we buy some time in order to try deeper adjustments, which I believe are badly needed.
I don't know what to do next, but I do know what to vote for.
Also, and focusing directly on the killing: what are we afraid of exactly? I don't really know. Some person in the demonstration said "I don't know what to shout" - that's possibly because we don't know for sure who is the direct culprit of the terrorist action. But some other person said "civilization is in danger" or something like it.
I think civilization is a danger. [link]
12 Mar 2004 @ 17:29 by bushman : Agree
It's in deep poop. infowars.com, has a video about the Bohemian Grove, with live footage of what goes on, and whos involved. They are the people that profit from all the mayhem they creat. They are a lucifarin cult, and all countries are involved in it. Scull and Bones, is just 1 lodge of many world wide. The system is so rigged, how can you vote them out, when the compitition is part of the scam? America is already Boned.
12 Mar 2004 @ 18:27 by vibrani : Spain
The solidarity of the Spanish people is a good and strong sign, however what is it they are up against? Should the Basques have their own country? Maybe what happened in Spain was to separate the Muslims from the non-Muslims? The loss of any life is sad, but I think it's especially more horrific (as intended) through such acts.
Why is it so easy to see the U.S. as the culprit but you can't fathom anything else? The U.S. did not concoct 9/11 and have people fly planes into buildings - that's just the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, and when someone has that kind of thought in them there is nothing anyone can say or prove that will change their minds. If anyone would want the U.S. to have tighter controls on freedom - think about it - it would be religious fanatics who are terrified (ergo terrorism) of the West and freedom and influences their own culture that ironically in some ways tries to imitate us and come to the U.S.for education and business connections and then when they have that, they throw it back in our faces. They can't accept change, progress, individuality, etc. Yes, 9/11 caused things to happen that caused us to put our own freedom in jeopardy because it went from one extreme to the other, and that isn't right and will be balanced out, I'm sure.
If you are talking about the U.S. as being a little naive or not paying attention to warnings about what was going on in the world, yes, the U.S. was just that. There are still those Saudis, etc. who flew planes on 9/11 and they are responsible for that. 9/11 was a wake-up call about the interconnectedness of humanity, about individuals instead of nations.
If you think this has anything to do with one guy in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, Bin Laden, calling the shots, and that if he's captured all terrorism will end, you have no idea how the networks of terrorists operate.
"If the terrorist had been true in heart, true to their religious standards, they would not have performed this attack and the others that have come before this. These attacks came about out of fear, a paradox you see, for they believe their actions will cause fear in the minds of others. Terrorists do not want to recognize or admit their own fears: their illusion of separation and fear of intimacy. They have chosen to increase their communication, without respect, without care for life, and in the hopes they can control and manipulate others through fear that also lasts beyond the actual event. The terrorist attitude is 'let's strike out and blow up airplanes and buildings, and kill as many as we can, and let's do it before they get wise and know that we are living in fear. We do not want others to know that, for if they know we are in fear then we are vulnerable.'" [a channeled message from Dr. Peebles]
What is the way out of fear? Love.
13 Mar 2004 @ 02:06 by Ge Zi @22.214.171.124 : follow the money
I guess that hit far more home for you than it does here - interesting how distance can make a difference. And Max told me he was in spain in a train station - ok - different city - but that's coming to be rather uncomfortably close, doesn't it?
These events can be really rather confusing, if you don't look at them with the idea of finding out who really has an advantage - as you call it "follow the money". I think I noticed that the first time after the shooting in Columbine when suddently the gun-controller had no problems pushing ani-gun-legislation, that before they had - to say the least - a few troubles with.
So, I guess they must have been very happy about that shooting. I can't help wondering if that happiness is a happiness as in "job well done" ...
13 Mar 2004 @ 02:53 by lugon @126.96.36.199 : memeplexes' conflict
One memeplex is 'let's hide behind curtains, cry in hopelessness, and let others take control', and the other is 'let's ignore them, let's find our ways forward'.
Liberté, egalité ... fraternité.
"The US" does not exist. "Skulls and bones" may exist. "Ming readers" may exist. I wonder if there's a "skulls and bones" network in Spain too. Any information about that?
The election is tomorrow.
13 Mar 2004 @ 10:46 by bushman : Bones in spain?
According to this there is.
13 Mar 2004 @ 17:51 by vaxen : Nice...
article Flemming but do you seriously think that by getting rid, i.e.,supposedly 'voting' out the present, so called, Government leaders that things will change? The New World Order is one order with many, many, faces...in parlance known as 'the Octopus.'
The best one can hope for is that people, worldwide, will stop listening to their 'leaders,' turn off al communications mediae, get in tune with the God/Buddha within and refuse to take up arms for anyone or anything...
Throw their wretched insurance scripts into the streets and or burn it and disband Governments everywhere and have an Earth day, a day "OUT OF TIME"...
13 Mar 2004 @ 19:06 by ming : Voting
No, I don't think it in itself makes a lot of immediate difference exactly who one votes in or out. But it makes a big difference that the population realizes it has the power to choose its leaders, or whether it wants any at all. It does take some consistent action to get things to really change, and it might start with us finding out power to say yes or no.
13 Mar 2004 @ 19:38 by martha : I second that thought
"The best one can hope for is that people, worldwide, will stop listening to their 'leaders,' turn off al communications mediae, get in tune with the God/Buddha within and refuse to take up arms for anyone or anything... "- thanks vax, I'm with you.
13 Mar 2004 @ 20:36 by magical_melody : Time to stop believing in set-ups!
As if smart murderers would place specific items to implicate themselves, a van with detonators and Koranic verses? Yeah right!
Wow! --In Madrid alone two million people took to the streets, the Web site of El Mundo newspaper said.
Spanish PM plays up politics of blame
Finding ETA guilty would help Aznar win re-election
The Basque separatist group ETA has denied responsibility for the train bombings that killed nearly 200 people in Spain.
13 Mar 2004 @ 23:56 by maxtobin : Interesting thread
Again follow the money or ask who benefits as the obvious way to get beyond the immediate and the story we will be presented with. Same hidden agenda as before, eh wat!!
Another take on this one
Interesting comparison with the Octopus as the descriptor here, our Polynesian friends have a story of the Octopus climbing trees to eat the flowers (Nectar eaters not Lotus eaters!!), BUT you have to be very aware to see them at it!! Also the Octopus is the only marine animal that is known to take on the SHARK and kill it in the region. We will get back to you if we get some guidance on reasons and perpetrators.
One thing for sure it aint far from an illuminati-ng experience.
14 Mar 2004 @ 03:35 by Michael @188.8.131.52 : Terror in Madrid
I think the desired outcome that is required from this attack is the speedy introduction of the Biometric passports for the EU. With the supposed purpose of cracking down on Terrorism, but with the covert prupose of labelling and tracking us poor world citizens
14 Mar 2004 @ 07:04 by lugon @184.108.40.206 : voting is my way to buy time
Many people in Spain feel that politicians are all bad.
I guess they are good at playing the Democracy 1.0 game.
I've done a little (with my vote) just to get us some time to try and change the game. I know there's danger in "changing the game" too.
There's this initiative called "another democracy is possible": otra democracia es posible [link] where they suggest individual votes could help put "new people" in the parliament - and let me quickly explain: these people wouldn't be politicians, but rather normal citizens who wouldn't go to parliament. That way, some votes would have the effect of leaving some seats empty. That might (or might not) generate an interesting dynamics of normal politicians having to attract that part of the population that now simply gets ignored as if they were not interested in how "nations are run" (ugh!).
Others are trying bloggers' parliament which now has a group blog at [link] (I hope I got the url right, it's very recent - if it doesn't work go throug [link])
It's Sonday voting today. Monday will be interesting too.
I wish the USA citizens good luck too. (Yes, I'd like to vote for their president - more so if Spanish president follows the USA one!)
15 Mar 2004 @ 03:34 by Ashanti @220.127.116.11 : They did.
Ming concluded: "What to do? What regular people can do is at least to use the coming elections to remove the government leaders in their countries who are furthering that agenda by their actions and propaganda. So, say goodbye to Jose Maria Aznar and George W. Bush.".
And the people did. Jose Maria Aznar is out. Story here.
15 Mar 2004 @ 03:50 by lugon @18.104.22.168 : next step
People want to check the new gov on their promises.
We also need to work on Democracy 2.0, whatever that may be.
My own personal feeling is condensed in a frightening poetic sequence:
image 1: a train running full speed towards a stone-wall.
image 2: the train transforms itself into a group of butterflies.
Yeah, I know cats fall on four legs - but the trick is part of their inherited bodies. Do *we* have a chance?
A memetic shift might do the trick. The trouble is: how?
15 Mar 2004 @ 03:53 by ashanti : With people like you...
...Lugon, you *do* have a chance. Spread the meme. Talk about it. You'd be surprised how it ripples out. We are with you.
15 Mar 2004 @ 16:32 by ming : Choices
Indeed, I think those are very positive aspects. Instead of falling into the trap of submitting themselves to more of the same, by giving in to fear and supporting excalated violence, they got engaged and kicked out the people who mostly are responsible and who clumsily tried to lie to them. And it happened very quickly. It might indeed by a tipping point of some importance.
16 Mar 2004 @ 00:19 by FreedomBuilder @22.214.171.124 : Transformation
Like in ages past and for ALL people everywhere, right now and for quite a while to come, perpetual personal transformation is the key -- like what 'vaxen' wrote above.
The best, most distributed, most kineseologically-tested powerful FORUM/COMMUNITY within which that transformation can occur, is the Curriculum for Living by Landmark Education: [link] There's probably a Center in a city near you!
16 Mar 2004 @ 02:41 by lugon @126.96.36.199 : flashmobs and "politics"
5,000 people selforganised via mobile phones, in no time.
The political parties were surprised that no-one had told them to gather.
I'm surprised they were surprised.
There are a few things to do yet. :-)
Maybe something as simple as organising flashmobs for no reason, just to spread the meme of self-organisation? SOIP? Self-organization is possible?
Ashanti: thanks for the encouragement.
All: thanks for the same.
19 Mar 2004 @ 11:50 by shawa : Yes!
Feels good to see people thinking, instead of blaming.
The cell phone thing is fascinating.
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