New Civilization News: Terror in Madrid    
 Terror in Madrid15 comments
picture 12 Mar 2004 @ 10:14, by Flemming Funch

Around 200 people dead from simultaneous terror bombings of commuter trains in Madrid.

Well, I normally am not of a mind to just mention bad news because it is "news". But I can mention a few things it brings up for me...

It is the next country over, so it doesn't have the same emotional impact for me personally as it would if it were in France, even in Paris. Or in Denmark or in Los Angeles, places that have been home for me. Somehow we will often compartmentalize things, so it somehow doesn't hit the same unless we consider it within "our" territory. Otherwise it feels like "over there", rather than "here".

It is always a tragedy when innocent people die violently and suddenly. But we have weird subjective ways of measuring it. It is the same kind of tragedy for the family and friends for every single person. But if 200 people died in a plane crash, it wouldn't register remotely the same way. Or if 50,000 people die in an earthquake in China, it is a bit unfathomable to try to relate to it, so it easily becomes just another news item. Or if 500,000 people die in Iraq from the side effects of a war carried out to protect oil interests, how do I respond to that? It is bad, but it easily just becomes an abstract number, rather than that number of personal tragedies.

But we're nevertheless surprisingly connected. So if even an apparently small number of people is involved in some dramatic event, we usually know somebody who knows somebody. In my French class this morning, several of the Spanish people present had friends or family members who were there in Madrid and who had been on the next train or the previous train and that kind of thing.

This particular event seems to have a large emotional impact on Spain and on the rest of Europe. A mini 9-11 event. Something that shouldn't be possible. Something we didn't expect where we live. Something that makes us feel more vulnerable. And maybe angry at the perpetrators, even the first possible group identified as the likely perpetrators, whether they actually did it or not. Or maybe more compassionate and solidaric with each other.

My guess would be that this is more related to an apparent al-Qaeda related group, rather than the Basque separatist group ETA.

But I also believe that when deliberate well organized, well planned, and well financed events are carried out, one needs to look carefully at who it benefits. "Follow the money" is one variation of that. Or look at who actually wants the outcome that quite naturally follows from such an event. Which often gives totally different answers than those that follow from who's officially blamed. Did it further the cause of Bin Laden and al-Qaeda and the Taliban that 9-11 happened? No, they were just about bombed into oblivion. And the United States was turned into an oppressive police state with a strengthened military and the willingness to use it anywhere, with little justification, without any need for public support. The Iraq invasion, however, was a godsend for groups like al-Qaeda, who were supplied with another lawless territory to operate out of, and a lot of motivated new recruits, and a lot of easy targets. So, if you follow my logic here, 9-11 was most likely masterminded by folks who wanted to turn the United States into a much more tightly controlled society, and who wanted greatly increased power and resources given to military activities, with greatly lessened checks and balances. You can guess who that might be, but that it would be some guy in a tent in Afghanistan would be a bit farfetched. And the unilateral Iraq invasion was masterminded by folks who wanted to support increased terrorism and lawlessness in the world. And, sure, those might very well be the exact same people, as those objectives can dovetail into each other quite well. But those actions certainly wouldn't be carried out neither by people who want to free muslim areas from outside influences, nor people who want peace and safety and freedom for the common folks anywhere. Unless the planners were extremely mis-informed, uneducated, unprepared and bad at carrying out any objective at all in any organized way. Which I'm quite sure isn't the case.

So, as to Madrid, who's cause would this support? Certainly not the ETA, as everybody hates them now, and large resources now will be applied to wiping them out. No, it would support folks who would like Europe to catch up to the U.S. in terms of population control and general paranoia.

What to do? What regular people can do is at least to use the coming elections to remove the government leaders in their countries who are furthering that agenda by their actions and propaganda. So, say goodbye to Jose Maria Aznar and George W. Bush.

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12 Mar 2004 @ 10:42 by govi : Hi¡¡
Hello Ming Thanks for your attention in these painful moments, in which we are immersed.  

12 Mar 2004 @ 11:51 by shawa : We live in Spain
So yes, it´s being hard, though not as hard as if we were living around or near Madrid. We know people there, however, a lot! And we´re talking, after the event.
Very interesting analysis you make, Ming. Goes along the same line we share here.  

12 Mar 2004 @ 12:53 by magical_melody : Very good Flemming,
Your words are spot on, "So, if you follow my logic here, 9-11 was most likely masterminded by folks who wanted to turn the United States into a much more tightly controlled society, and who wanted greatly increased power and resources given to military activities, with greatly lessened checks and balances"

And yes you got that right about people abstracting personal tragedies because they are way over there. It is time to put all the pieces together. That means giving voice and taking actions now which facilitate this one voice being heard in every quadrant of the world. Yes and goodbyes to Aznar and Bush, and to their agendas!  

12 Mar 2004 @ 17:29 by bushman : Agree
It's in deep poop., has a video about the Bohemian Grove, with live footage of what goes on, and whos involved. They are the people that profit from all the mayhem they creat. They are a lucifarin cult, and all countries are involved in it. Scull and Bones, is just 1 lodge of many world wide. The system is so rigged, how can you vote them out, when the compitition is part of the scam? America is already Boned.  

12 Mar 2004 @ 18:27 by vibrani : Spain
The solidarity of the Spanish people is a good and strong sign, however what is it they are up against? Should the Basques have their own country? Maybe what happened in Spain was to separate the Muslims from the non-Muslims? The loss of any life is sad, but I think it's especially more horrific (as intended) through such acts.

Why is it so easy to see the U.S. as the culprit but you can't fathom anything else? The U.S. did not concoct 9/11 and have people fly planes into buildings - that's just the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, and when someone has that kind of thought in them there is nothing anyone can say or prove that will change their minds. If anyone would want the U.S. to have tighter controls on freedom - think about it - it would be religious fanatics who are terrified (ergo terrorism) of the West and freedom and influences their own culture that ironically in some ways tries to imitate us and come to the U.S.for education and business connections and then when they have that, they throw it back in our faces. They can't accept change, progress, individuality, etc. Yes, 9/11 caused things to happen that caused us to put our own freedom in jeopardy because it went from one extreme to the other, and that isn't right and will be balanced out, I'm sure.

If you are talking about the U.S. as being a little naive or not paying attention to warnings about what was going on in the world, yes, the U.S. was just that. There are still those Saudis, etc. who flew planes on 9/11 and they are responsible for that. 9/11 was a wake-up call about the interconnectedness of humanity, about individuals instead of nations.

If you think this has anything to do with one guy in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, Bin Laden, calling the shots, and that if he's captured all terrorism will end, you have no idea how the networks of terrorists operate.

"If the terrorist had been true in heart, true to their religious standards, they would not have performed this attack and the others that have come before this. These attacks came about out of fear, a paradox you see, for they believe their actions will cause fear in the minds of others. Terrorists do not want to recognize or admit their own fears: their illusion of separation and fear of intimacy. They have chosen to increase their communication, without respect, without care for life, and in the hopes they can control and manipulate others through fear that also lasts beyond the actual event. The terrorist attitude is 'let's strike out and blow up airplanes and buildings, and kill as many as we can, and let's do it before they get wise and know that we are living in fear. We do not want others to know that, for if they know we are in fear then we are vulnerable.'" [a channeled message from Dr. Peebles]

What is the way out of fear? Love.  

13 Mar 2004 @ 02:06 by Ge Zi @ : follow the money
Hi Flemming,
I guess that hit far more home for you than it does here - interesting how distance can make a difference. And Max told me he was in spain in a train station - ok - different city - but that's coming to be rather uncomfortably close, doesn't it?
These events can be really rather confusing, if you don't look at them with the idea of finding out who really has an advantage - as you call it "follow the money". I think I noticed that the first time after the shooting in Columbine when suddently the gun-controller had no problems pushing ani-gun-legislation, that before they had - to say the least - a few troubles with.
So, I guess they must have been very happy about that shooting. I can't help wondering if that happiness is a happiness as in "job well done" ...  

13 Mar 2004 @ 10:46 by bushman : Bones in spain?
According to this there is.

13 Mar 2004 @ 17:51 by vaxen : Nice...
article Flemming but do you seriously think that by getting rid, i.e.,supposedly 'voting' out the present, so called, Government leaders that things will change? The New World Order is one order with many, many, parlance known as 'the Octopus.'

The best one can hope for is that people, worldwide, will stop listening to their 'leaders,' turn off al communications mediae, get in tune with the God/Buddha within and refuse to take up arms for anyone or anything...

Throw their wretched insurance scripts into the streets and or burn it and disband Governments everywhere and have an Earth day, a day "OUT OF TIME"...  

13 Mar 2004 @ 19:06 by ming : Voting
No, I don't think it in itself makes a lot of immediate difference exactly who one votes in or out. But it makes a big difference that the population realizes it has the power to choose its leaders, or whether it wants any at all. It does take some consistent action to get things to really change, and it might start with us finding out power to say yes or no.  

13 Mar 2004 @ 19:38 by martha : I second that thought
"The best one can hope for is that people, worldwide, will stop listening to their 'leaders,' turn off al communications mediae, get in tune with the God/Buddha within and refuse to take up arms for anyone or anything... "- thanks vax, I'm with you.  

13 Mar 2004 @ 20:36 by magical_melody : Time to stop believing in set-ups!
As if smart murderers would place specific items to implicate themselves, a van with detonators and Koranic verses? Yeah right!

Wow! --In Madrid alone two million people took to the streets, the Web site of El Mundo newspaper said.

Spanish PM plays up politics of blame
Finding ETA guilty would help Aznar win re-election

Isabel Vincent
National Post

The Basque separatist group ETA has denied responsibility for the train bombings that killed nearly 200 people in Spain.

News Global


13 Mar 2004 @ 23:56 by maxtobin : Interesting thread
Again follow the money or ask who benefits as the obvious way to get beyond the immediate and the story we will be presented with. Same hidden agenda as before, eh wat!!
{link:|Another take on this one}

Interesting comparison with the Octopus as the descriptor here, our Polynesian friends have a story of the Octopus climbing trees to eat the flowers (Nectar eaters not Lotus eaters!!), BUT you have to be very aware to see them at it!! Also the Octopus is the only marine animal that is known to take on the SHARK and kill it in the region. We will get back to you if we get some guidance on reasons and perpetrators.
One thing for sure it aint far from an illuminati-ng experience.  

15 Mar 2004 @ 03:53 by ashanti : With people like you...
...Lugon, you *do* have a chance. Spread the meme. Talk about it. You'd be surprised how it ripples out. We are with you.  

15 Mar 2004 @ 16:32 by ming : Choices
Indeed, I think those are very positive aspects. Instead of falling into the trap of submitting themselves to more of the same, by giving in to fear and supporting excalated violence, they got engaged and kicked out the people who mostly are responsible and who clumsily tried to lie to them. And it happened very quickly. It might indeed by a tipping point of some importance.  

19 Mar 2004 @ 11:50 by shawa : Yes!
Feels good to see people thinking, instead of blaming.
The cell phone thing is fascinating.  

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