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New Civilization News: The Mystic Meaning of Original Sin |
Category: Spirituality 14 comments
22 Jun 2007 @ 05:31 by a-d : uuuuhhhh...auch...... 23 Jun 2007 @ 00:42 by anandavala : Practicality Thanks for the warm welcome : ) Part of the innoculation of people's minds against mysticism is the idea that it is superstitious and impractical but in reality it is totally rational, deeply empirical (based on direct personal experience of reality) and supremely practical. It's the mechanistic paradigm that is irrational, non-empirical and impractical. It's rational only within narrow contexts (mechanistic belief systems) and irrational within the wider context (where we actually live). It's non-empirical because it's based upon an unquestioned belief in an imaginary substance called 'matter' which is just the objects of perception that we project into the idea of an external material universe through commonsense realism. And if you look at the world that has evolved from the superstious religion of materialism and mechanistic authoritarianism it is plain to see that it hasn't been very practical in any holistic sense. But take the Australian Aborigines - they lived peacefully for over 80,000 years in harmony with their environment and they developed deeply mystic technologies such as songlines in which they learnt the 'dreaming' of the land and its 'songs' and using these they could travel from one end of Australia to the other, knowing exactly where to go, where to find food and water and so on. Now that's pretty practical - it's just using the functionality built into the universe itself rather than recreating crude mechanistic versions. It's like learning telepathy instead of developing a mobile phone network. There's no bills to pay, no pollution from manufacturing, no microwaving one's own head or huge antenas everywhere - it's already built in - all we have to do is learn to use it. But best of all mysticism teaches us about ourselves, about our relation with the cosmos and it empowers us to realise our true potential. In reality this universe is quite a mysterious place and mysticism helps us explore those mysteries. Another name for it - perhaps more suitable for modern minds - is holistic science. It's not always implemented perfectly and there are many useful things that arise from the mechanistic paradigm, but for holistic integration and holistic harmony you can't beat a holistic paradigm. 23 Jun 2007 @ 01:51 by a-d : Well.... put into this format, I grasp "it all" better -and willingly go along with you.... ; ) I mean, I do agree on this version!...hehehhe... THANKS!!! BTW: my "Sooo Cool" comment is one of the three -or so LAST ones on Jazzo's Drug Article (with 30-some comments total)Just scroll to the bottom and slowly go UP from there!...: ) 23 Jun 2007 @ 05:16 by anandavala : Inspiring !!!! I Checked out those links - they are PROFOUNDLY inspiring : ) The main ones are Ithaca HOURS, Complimetary Currency, CC on Wikipedia and Access Foundation if anyone else is interested... The idea of complimentary currency is an easy, practical and effective way to get to the root of virtually all the major problems in the world. It's something regular people can do for their own benefit that also has widespread systemic effects that can help reverse the devastating impact of the modern world on communities and the environment. The global monetary system is teetering on the edge of an abyss, which is a poorly kept secret. For a start check out the looming Global Systemic Crisis (which began about a year ago and is expected to become serious in late 2007) and the generational Tidal Wave that's going to peak in 2012 but I've also collected a list of hundreds of articles from economists and financial advisors that talk about things like "Financial Armageddon", "Economic Hell", "the end of civilisation as we know it", "the end of capitalist liberal demorcracy" and so on, these are economists and not your typical doombats! I'll upload that list soon. There is widespread agreement that something very out of the ordinary is happening and the system isn't likely to survive this one without RADICAL change. The economic collapse will force people to adopt alternative monetary systems if they are going to survive. So even the global events are conspiring to force us to do what is good for ourselves and the planet even if we drag our feet. I was wondering what lifeboats the universe had strewn around for us and complimentary currency is one of them, perhaps the most important one... It would be a good idea if people prepared their life boats before the ship sinks. 23 Jun 2007 @ 19:48 by a-d : Again & again.... ... I run into this wall: You start talking to people about the faulty Monetary System, as they complain to you over their own personal struggles to make ends meet. That is all "well & dandy" and you expect them to be/come truly interested -as these money problems really are literally torturing them to death.... and WHAT happens????... Lo & behold; they do NOT want to listen to any possible changes to be made in the System, they just personally want to have more of the cash that is enslaving them, killing them.... but to open up for a new BETTER System. ".... What! Are you cra-a-z-y-y???????!??!?!?!?..."...and a bewildered look on their face! So... right now -after once again had this same bad experience yesterday evening...I give up..... Mort-gage not for "nothing"....... People do NOT want to be saved! There is something so profoundly weird in the very bottom of our shared psyche/psychic Barrel and damned if it isn't related to the truth covered up into nice stories in the OT. People choosing the Cash Cow over Ethics/ethical behaviour. That happened a looong time ago... longer, I believe than the Official story implies.... Somehow that event has its flow -of-events- from and due to the OLD Paradigm which teaches that our body is "just-a VESSEL(-to-be- discarded") for our Soul. NOTHING COULD BE MORE WRONG.... anymore than the pit in a Avocado is the vessel for the avocado! Read Rishi's latest. He talks quite a bit about our Love-Hate-relationship to our own physicality. A LOOOOT of emotional s---- starts right there!..... and since our emotions dictate our relatedness and over all behaviour..... well u have it!.... eh? WHY CHANGE anything???? ....all is lost anyway!... (thousands of years of conviction based on this idiotic brainwashing will -only- die very hard, very, very hard, I'm afraid ....even when the Perfect Solutions are "out there" for us to put into work right now!.... ONLY on individual level are people waking up and becoming willing to do Things in a new way, but Mainstream(-people).... well... not all caterpillars turn into Butterflies... not all apples on the branch ever grow to full size mature ripe apples...the same thing seems to be the case with us humans. But I am happy that so many individuals in "higher social positions" are waking up and walking away from the s---. That is theeee thing that really brings my lost hope back every time! : ) 23 Jun 2007 @ 21:21 by anandavala : Civilisation is a self-reinforcing loop of ideas. Given the nature of 'paradigms', how we look through them at the world, how they construct the meanings that we experience and how difficult it is to make sense of a new paradigm whilst still looking through the old one - I'm not at all surprised by the responses of people that you've just described. For people who are totally caught in a particular paradigm it is futile to try and explain to them what lies on the other side of the vast chasm of understanding that separates them from the new paradigm. It only sounds fanciful, abstract and unreal to them because their whole concept of what is practical, tangible and real is based on their current paradigm. For open minded people that are aching for an alternative it is easy - just tell them what is over there and they'll think it through themselves and build their own bridge or just leap across. But with people who are apathetic, caught in a comfortable rut or too narrow minded to be able to conceive of over-there you need to be gentle and be happy with whatever little steps they take in that direction. If they get any impression that you are trying to push them there they'll instantly become resistant. The best general approach that I know of is to build a bridge across the chasm. This isn't straight forward because you're trying to connect two different paradigms. You need to understand the terrain on both sides and find parallels that can be used - points of potential contact through which understanding can be transferred from one side to the other. You need to make a smooth path that they won't easily trip on if they are dragging their feet. For example - personal interest is a strong motivating force in both the current system and a complimentary currency system. If a person is focused only on their personal interests then don't talk about how great it could be for the community, the environment or the world but instead focus on their personal interest. Explain how the new system would be better for them personally - keep to concrete facts that are related to their personal interest, maybe use examples from Ithaca, Fureai Kippu, Worgl and others to explain how they could have more wealth, better employment prospects, better working conditions, interest free loans, better personal care in their old age, more local control over the currency (a lot of people distrust banks and this is a good point of leverage), more control over things like minimum wage (a lot of people distrust politicians and this is another good point of leverage), a healthier community with less crime and better services that will be better for THEM. If they are focused on themselves keep things focused on them and they will understand it better. That's just one example - not everyone is so selfish - but in general to build a bridge you need firm anchor points on each side. When a person is standing on one side they can't really understand what lies all-the-way-over-there, what they want to see is a well anchored structure on their side that they can understand. Once they get their head around that they've taken their fist step onto the bridge. But they need to traverse it one step at a time and to have some motivation to keep stepping in that direction. Creating a conceptual bridge requires a lot of understanding of the connections between worlds, how different things seem from the different paradigms, common motivations that can lead people onto the bridge and so on. With people who are trapped in their current paradigm you also need to be careful about enthusing too much about the other side. If they are caught in their current paradigm too much talk about the other side will put them off because it probably sounds weird and far-fetched to them. Naive spiritualists have often fallen prey to this phenomenon - they enthuse about the glory of the kingdom of God to complete materialist and only strengthen the materialist's certainty that all that spiritual stuff is totally insane. But if you talk about the more immediate steps that are closer-to-home for them then they might understand that and before long they'll find themselves on the other side and be surprised that it's not what they thought it would be like - that it's not some utopian dream but it's actually solid ground and there's real prosperity that will give them the personal satisfaction that they care about. Fortunately the concept of complimentary currency is quite easy to understand - unlike building a bridge between materialism and mysticism. Not many steps are required to get across and the paradigm shift isn't too radical. They don't have to question their deepest beliefs - they just need to shift their understanding of what money is; it's not just some fact of the universe - the ocean in which we swim - it's something that we create for our own benefit, it's a medium of exchange to facilitate human interactions. I find it's good to give examples of cases where there are lots of people who are rich in time but poor in money - they can turn their time into currency and suddenly they are all rich and lots of productive interactions can occur and rather than wallow in poverty the people thrive in prosperity. It's really just using whatever we are rich in as a currency rather than relying on what the bankers are rich in. It gives control back to people and I think that is the main point that a lot of people would connect with. One last bit of advice - a lot of people are attached to money - with such people, don't talk about how bad money is, maybe just talk about how we can make it even better. 24 Jun 2007 @ 00:37 by a-d : Yuppp you are absolutely right! THANKS, friend! : ) /// A-d 24 Jun 2007 @ 11:34 by anandavala : Good luck in getting through to people : ) I've found that as long as I learn from my failures each one becomes a new plank in the bridge. I've had some frustrating conversations over the years but in the end they are often the ones that have helped the most. Ciao friend : ) 26 Jun 2007 @ 09:44 by jazzolog : Sinful Separation Some say we are born into delusion...and others claim we come into the world trailing stardust behind us or some dream memory of the great beyond---or something. Whatever, it seems realization of a "sinful" state---if not drummed into you by some religious figure during childhood---comes with a sense of incomplete or loss or lost. Separate from something that promises wholeness. But is that something Nature, is it environment? Tribal ways may unify us with surroundings and assure a harmonious place, an ecological niche...but is it romanticism to think that's what tribe is? Is it romance to think that's what salvation is? Is it not sin from which humans wish to be saved? If one is not enjoying a thorough wallow in it, that is. I cannot look to Nature for that salvation. I must look for God. 26 Jun 2007 @ 12:58 by anandavala : Ideas of Salvation I know it's impossible to talk without using words and these are just symbols for ideas - but what do you mean by "I cannot look to Nature for that salvation. I must look for God."? If you mean the "idea of God" then that can be dangerous, but if you said the word God as just a symbol that vaguely refers to the ultimate and undefinable reality that underlies all words, ideas and sense impressions then I agree with you. It can be dangerous to look to any idea for salvation because that idea could just be another part of one's delusion. What is 'nature' and what is 'God'? These ideas mean different things to different people but what lies behind these ideas? Somewhere behind our ideas and sense impressions there is something that is real and that 'something' is our salvation. By returning to reality we can break out of delusion but to put that reality into the box of any kind of idea can be dangerous because then even our attempt to get real becomes a part of the delusion. "The Way that can be spoken is not the eternal Way." (Lao Tzu) The eternal way is the inner most essence of all things and it can be found flowing deep inside us but the moment we put it into words and ideas we lose the way and we dwell amidst our words and ideas. The reason why meditation is so effective is that it goes beyond words and ideas and puts us in touch with our inner most essence, which is the reality that is veiled behind every sense impression, every idea and every word. If we stay anchored in that reality we can create impressions, ideas and words and not become adrift amongst them and lost in fantasy worlds that are just constructs of the mind that we assume to be objectively real. But if we lose our anchor there is no telling how far from reality we may drift and how deeply we may come into conflict with it. As we create a culture of subtle delusions we drift away from reality and over centuries the entire civilisation drifts. At first the signs of conflict with reality are subtle and can be brushed aside with rationalisations but when entire ecosystems and societies are in decay and life becomes ever more tenuous then we really need to rethink the situation and question the culture of ideas upon which we have built this civilisation. Collectively, we really need a reality check. 26 Jun 2007 @ 23:51 by a-d : OK, all that said.... I now would like to go back to the original statement here about (what each of us consider to be) "The Original Sin": my conclusion so far, based on the "fact"that in many lingistuic circles "Sin" is translated as LIMITATION. FALLING OUT OF GRACE; minted as "Ego" ( I call it our "VIP Syndrome" ) by Freud - who had a huge ego himself!.... ; ) is extremely limiting of one's own God Given skills in our efforts of co-creating a good life -in harmony with ALL around us. The need to be a VIP demands ever greater Selfishness from us in order to feed that VIP syndrome: "To hell with others, as long as I get what I want". This kind of Life attitude puts a LIMITATION of our Co-creativity ( also called: "Consciousness" ) and is ever growing in its limiting of us. Not only has Mankind limited itself, but also forced this on ALL Life forms in Nature.When we raise our own vibrations to ever higher, so we assist in raising the vibrations for the rest of "God's" Creation/Nature. 27 Jun 2007 @ 14:49 by anandavala : Very true : ) What you say, Astrid, is very true, sin is related to limitation because to dwell in delusion is very limiting and the origin of delusion is limited awareness. I suggest that sin is any disconnection from reality that brings us into conflict with reality and that disconnection arises from our limitations. Original sin is our deepest limitation. The implication of commonsense realism is that everything that we think we experience, every thought that arises from that and everything that we know, is fundamentally based on a false interpretation of limited awareness. In that sense 'limitation' is implicit in commonsense realism. Most people just assume that they know the fundamentals and then work upon a basis of false assumptions. But if the delusion is really as deep as commonsense realism implies then most of us simply don't know where we are, what we are and who we are nor do we know what we are doing - we just assume that we know and our assumptions are fundamentally flawed. So we are limited by our limited awareness and our limited understanding which we assume to be the reality and we thereby dwell within our limited cognitive constructs assuming those to be "the world". This limits our experience and understanding of the reality that we actually exist in and limits our beliefs of what is possible. Here's a few relevant quotes that fell into my lap today whilst putting together another article on complimentary currency (Interaction, Economics and the Human Condition): "Man as he now is has ceased to be the All. When he ceases to be a separate individual, he raises himself again and penetrates the whole world." (Plotinus) "It is like an image reflected in a mirror, it is seen but it is not real; the one Mind is seen as a duality by the ignorant when it is reflected in the mirror constructed by our memory... the existence of the entire universe is due to memory that has been accumulated since the beginningless past but wrongly interpreted." (Lankavatara Sutra) "Every time a thought is born, you are born. When the thought is gone, you are gone. But the 'you' does not let the thought go, and what gives continuity to this 'you' is thinking. Actually there's no permanent entity in you, no totality of all your thoughts and experiences. You think that there is 'somebody' who is feeling your feelings - that's the illusion." (U.G. Krishnamurti) "For man has closed himself up, 'till he sees all things thro' the chinks of his cavern." (William Blake) They all relate to commonsense realism and the accumulation of delusion that distorts our awareness, which we then take to be reality, which then further distorts our awareness and so on. In this way the original sin (commonsense realism) creates and fuels a spiral into delusion. Our limitations lead to ever growing limitation whilst commonsense realism is fuelling that spiral, but by overcoming commonsense realism we can spiral into ever growing awareness and connection with reality until "we, with our unveiled faces reflecting like mirrors the glory of the Lord, all grow brighter and brighter as we are turned into the image that we reflect." (Bible, 2 Corinthians, 3:18) : ) 27 Jun 2007 @ 18:06 by a-d : Our Freedom of Choice is invertedly proportional to our Prejudice (Me). Yeahh.... I hear uuuu.... I personally -at this stage- see (cosmic .... = ALL Life) as the Octaves on a Baby Grand.... from C One to C Eight -or what ever....( of course limited on a piano...) Just because we have heard from people who -what you call Mysticism have glimpsed bits and pieces, let's say from C Five > of Reality;faaaar beyond what we really can wrap our brains around being in C Three (for instance)tell us about Things of THAT Reality (in C Five) doesn't in itself mean, that we really CAN wrap our Brains around it!....only do the "Intellectual Thing" = talk about it!.... yet talking about Something and truly grasping it, are two very different things, eh? BTW, I love my Common Sense and see it as one of my by Life given-to-me- Cosmic Skills/Tools to live my life EVERLASTING provided I used all my God-given Skills/Tools correctly!.... that would include letting my (feeling of) Common Sense guide me!... If it wasn't for my God-given Common Sense, I would have committed suicide looong time ago!.... 28 Jun 2007 @ 18:52 by anandavala : Who did God give those skill to? Was it to the thought construct in your mind that says 'I' and 'my' or was it to the whole organism? Another example... who is it that God gave science to, was it to individual humans or society or corporations or governments? Or are these 'gifts' given to the whole of reality and various entities arise and assume that it's all there just for them? Your very insightful comments inspired another article - thanks for the stimulation - you really hit upon important issues that I haven't previously looked into in depth - such as commonsense in general and what role it plays. I just wrote Commonsense, Fascist Regimes and the Ego partly as a response to your comment and partly as a general exploration of commonsense. I hope your ego doesn't take offence to any of it - it touches on sensitive subjects for egos... Thanks again a-d : ) !!!!! Other entries in Spirituality 24 Aug 2008 @ 15:59: Archangel Michael Update For August 18 Aug 2008 @ 15:15: Only One Here! 14 Aug 2008 @ 19:26: Our Work Here in this Life... is to Be Happy. 14 Aug 2008 @ 12:04: ET, You are Already Home! 5 Aug 2008 @ 23:38: Ron Lautenbach visits our Warrior Center 28 May 2008 @ 17:34: The Cost of Enlightenment 12 May 2008 @ 10:56: INNER DEMON, DOPPELGANGER 7 May 2008 @ 14:12: Everything Always Works Out for the Best 1 May 2008 @ 23:43: Impossibility and the Blood-Sick Kid 1 May 2008 @ 09:54: Incommunicabilité des expériences extatiques !
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