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Category: Counseling, Psychology
11 comments26 Jul 2004 @ 09:47 by Tim Rowe @184.108.40.206 : Rich Entry...
No, that's not my 'Porn Star Name', but a comment on how valuable I think this article is. Accepting what is, just the way it is, is often tricky - but I've found it's the only real way of moving forward without resisting what currently appears to be happening. Thanks for the reminder Ming.
27 Jul 2004 @ 17:43 by ov : Acceptence
This is such a tempting philosophy, 'just go along to get along.' Dopn't resist the way things are, just go along with the norm, because you know, the nail that sticks up gets hammered down. Well what about 'all it takes for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing' isn't that the exact opposite of 'just accept what is.' This whole subtle silencing of dissent thing is taking on shades of being the 'good German', and is what allows fascism to reig unchecked. You all remember the fascisist and the good Germans, don't ya?
27 Jul 2004 @ 17:59 by ming : Accepting
Well, that is one angle on it, but not really what this is about. Not about not rocking the boat, but rather about recognizing what is there before we start changing it. If I'm wearing a blue hat, and you say: "You're not supposed to be wearing a blue hat, it is all wrong, so it can't be". Recognizing that I AM wearing a blue hat, and then thinking: "So what do we do about that" might be a more fruitful angle. Israelis and Palestinians denying each other's existence doesn't get us anywhere, however righteous they feel about it. Recognizing that they're both there, and we can't wish any of them away, is the only direction that is likely to get anywhere.
To continue with the improv metaphor, one doesn't just accept the other person's choice, and then get apathetically resigned to it, and then go on and ignore it. One takes it and interacts with it, and builds upon it.
If you're pointing a gun at me, any strategy of mine that involves ignoring the existing of the gun is probably not going to work. However much I'd not want it to be pointing in my direction, I'll have to accept that reality before I can hope to change it.
So, it isn't the acceptance of resignation and submission, but the acceptance of facing reality, and then taking it somewhere else.
The 'good' Germans never accepted the reality. They denied it.
27 Jul 2004 @ 18:40 by ov : Accepting
"So, it isn't the acceptance of resignation and submission, but the acceptance of facing reality, and then taking it somewhere else."
That is a mighty fine sentence. It gets complicated when the question of reality enters the picture. Robert Anton Wilson said that reality was what you could get away with, and looking at the politics south of the border I'm inclined to think that he might very well have been right. When reality is force and everything else is shrugged off with a smirk, how long does it take to give in to nihlism and and start playing hard-ball in return.
28 Jul 2004 @ 00:39 by timrowe : Word Clearing
Or rather 'phrase clearing'. Thanks for that definition Ming (of acceptance). It was (to me) clear that no 'submission' was implied. Non-resistance is the key. Then moving on.
28 Jul 2004 @ 01:27 by ov : Moving Forward
I've read this article a couple of times now, well three times actually. I still can't see the non-resistance, lets move on, approach as being anything but a refusal to avoid a controversy at all costs.
It is one thing to use this in the context of some improptu theatre that has no reprecussions in the real world, and quite another to say this is how we should conduct our global affairs, how we should conduct those affairs which really do matter. There are times when it is okay to reduce everything to playing a game where nothing really matters, but actions that rationalize the deaths of millions is not one of those times. Even in the improv theatre situation there are examples where it is not okay to accept the story that evolves; for example if there was an actual crime (a murder?) happen on the stage then the law would be called in and the play would not be allowed to continue, even though it was improv.
I've just finished reading an article by Andy Lehman from last October that had Ghandi quotes spread throughout it, and it reminded me that not even Ghandi believed in non-resistance, he believed in non-violence, or at least in not being the one that perpetuates violence, but he also believed in standing up for what was right regardless of the personal cost involved in taking that stand, which shows real courage, and is entirely different than consent through silence.
28 Jul 2004 @ 07:07 by ming : Moving on
Well, what is meant is all quite the opposite of what you seem to read it as, Ov. It is not an "oh well, let's move on" approach. Rather, it is a "let's stay with what is right here" approach. If somebody actually gets shot in the middle of the show, it is very necessary to be very present with that. No, not in the sense of "Oh, well, that happens, yawn, let's move on". No, there are suddenly some very real things to do to take care of it. Staying stuck in one's head, getting really upset and sitting there fuming, thinking "That just shouldn't happen. What is our society coming to? We gotta do something about crime!" will only make you useless at actually doing anything about it right now.
So, we're not talking about the story as it was supposed to be. We're talking about the story as it is right now. Which requires being alert and present, rather than resigned, avoiding controversy.
30 Jul 2004 @ 14:58 by Quirkeboy @220.127.116.11 : Zen..maybe..
This reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend a month ago..
He has read quite a bit on Zen.. and I had only read enough to get the impression that Zen involves accepting the present and that life is suffering..
I told him that what bothered my about the philosophy is exactly what Ov has said.. "How do you make any meaningful changes if your just accepting everything?"
He explained that you accept your current situation and dont let it get to you.. understand it.. feel it.. welcome it.. its life speaking to you..
But then when you understand the situation.. make decisions to change it if you need to .. and accept the consequences of your actions with the same acceptance..
It seems that this allows you to be unhindered by your past judgements and personal bigotry.. and see the current situation for what it really is.. and to allow your TRUE feelings to be felt.. if those TRUE feelings are negative.. then you may decide to take action.
PS: Ive read Impro.. its a great book.. I dont even do theatre.. but it involves so much more.. philosophy.. psychology.. mythology.. sociology etc.. a fantasitic read..
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