|New Civilization News: What Israel Must Do|
Category: Preparedness, Self-Reliance
23 comments15 May 2006 @ 19:42 by enora : Extremes
whenever you have groups you have strong beliefs, and that usually means "we are right." That means war with anyone not of that group. This applies in such a major way to the Middle East. Each side thinks it is right and justified in what it does and their own way of doing it, and it keeps playing out the same game year after year. Each side thinks it's the victim and each side is a perpetrator. It's set up to pit one group against another and to feed off of that negative energy. No wonder nothing ever changes. As I've often said, it's about consciousness and the lack of it. You know it the minute you arrive in the Middle East. You feel it - a combination of joy, pain, love, sadness, heaviness, pain, suffering. Contradictions and conflict. That creates a continuous cycle of illness. It will not change until more people become conscious of what they're doing and why they're doing it, and how ridiculous it all is, and then become really responsible. Everyone can live and enjoy without having to punish the other. Neither side is superior or inferior. They're just two sides of the same coin, stuck in old beliefs, acting in unconsciousness, deadly unconsciousness. The last sentence of your post shows the contradictions and conflict very clearly - must have peace through war, a "we are right and have to win" war. This way, all sides are losers and remain unconscious.
15 May 2006 @ 20:40 by bkodish : Dear Muse
You seem quite convinced that both sides of this conflict are equally to blame for it.
This seems to me quite wrong. There is nothing in the Jewish/Israeli sphere comparable to the hatred and xenophobia of the Arab world, nor has there ever been. The view of so many Jews and Israelis, among others, that it is otherwise in fact drives the hatred and conflict even more, since it is seen by the other side as weakness. Those still immersed in what Thomas Sowell calls the "vision of the annointed" are unable to see this.
15 May 2006 @ 21:41 by enora : Bruce
I don't think that in any Jewish service (in a temple) one would ever hear anything but the wish and hope for peace. However, I ask you to think back on the Seder and what is in the Haggaddah, as one example of how it gets through. This old piece of religious work recounts the freedom from Egyptian oppression but every year what do you read in it? Prayer after prayer about the strength to fight and smite enemies and to be victorious over them for this reason or that reason - a lot of gore in there. Makes me so sick I can't enjoy a Seder anymore because I refuse to say such things or pass on that belief. I refuse to live in the past, too.
I also know that many mosques use religion and the airwaves to justify murder. One group (the Jews) might have a slightly higher awareness and compassion or organization than the other, but for the most part there is no fundamental difference. Fundamental, that's kinda funny in itself. Religion is mucking up everything and it removes the true essence of people. If you are getting hung up on the weakness aspect, that signifies a problem with the collective ego. If you have to react to that and then prove them wrong, look what you're doing and what you've bought into. I say so what? Let them believe they see weakness and you feel a real strength instead - but of a higher form that doesn't need to kill, or pass on the belief that its religion is better or that one always needs to destroy its enemies because you're only destroying yourself. No one needs to kill or control just because it can. And each side has its own definitions of what is defensive and what is offensive. It needs to rise above this.
Norway made an announcement the other day that it won't work with Hamas. Sweden should do likewise. So should everyone until the Palestinians get the message. Israel also needs to get a message. You can't let religion dictate politics or run a nation.
15 May 2006 @ 22:20 by bkodish : You seem to refuse to accept...
that we do not already live in the messianic age.
Well, we don't.
I believe that you have a distorted view of the Jewish religion. There is the teaching to treat the stranger with kindness and care because we were once slaves in Egypt. But there was never a teaching to let an enemy (defined as someone(s) trying to kill you and yours) that you should not do what is necessary to stop them.
There is no teaching to die in the name of 'peace' if someone is trying to kill you. If you do nothing to defend yourself, you will probably not be around very long. Perhaps you don't much give a damn about the survival of the Jewish people, still under terrible threat. There's nothing I can do about that. But I care a great deal.
15 May 2006 @ 22:23 by enora : You know
that's not what I'm talking about. That's another discussion and I support self-defense when someone is actually, literally, trying to kill you or someone near you, something you can do to prevent it.
The highly charged emotionality, and religious sense of righteousness of the situation makes it worse. People really need to step back and consider what is best for everyone. I mean both sides need to do this. But it will take some people who know what they're talking about to bring this awareness to both sides. Both sides need to open up more, be less fearful, and more compassionate of one another. That means a shift in consciousness. That's the main resolution.
15 May 2006 @ 22:43 by bkodish : Every week...
there are multiple Arab terrorist missions against Israeli civilian targets that are stopped and not reported in main-stream media. The Israeli government is to partly to blame for down-playing them.
The barrage of missles from Gaza have increased since the so-called disengagement. Most of these attacks, on almost a daily basis, are not reported in main-stream media either. The Israeli government is also partly to blame, in my opinion.
I don't mean to offend you at all. The sentiments you express are I'm sure well-intended. But they don't reflect the actualities. which I believe are well-represented in the article on Yaalon's speech.
15 May 2006 @ 23:03 by enora : Yes I know
about all the thwarted terrorist attempts. That has to continue until the Arabs understand they have to stop it. Bruce, this is Nora, I am very well aware of the realities. The Arab nations need to get together and put pressure on the Palestinians - they don't want a regional war. But to say that Israel should kill the terrorists in their beds is akin to Palestinians killing Israelis in their beds. It's an eye for an eye and that leaves everyone blind.
15 May 2006 @ 23:49 by bkodish : Palestinian Arab Militias...
have from the very beginning pursued a general policy of targeting civilians...
This has never been an Israeli policy. The situation is not symmetrical.
16 May 2006 @ 00:39 by enora : Not yet
but the talk is getting to be very similar.
Judaism, as most other religions, teach mixed messages. God is also a schizophrenic. While you write about how to teach a stranger, what about stoning people to death for things that shouldn't even be considered a crime? I'm sure you're well aware of B'Nai B'rack and woe be to anyone not religious who goes through their neighborhoods dressed differently, or driving a car, or being human in the modern world. There are extremes and many similarities in Judaism as there are in Islam.
Bruce, Messianic Age? We are the messiah, that means an enlightened planetary consciousness in the works. We can talk about this again around 2012 when there will be some interesting changes taking place.
16 May 2006 @ 06:29 by bkodish : Later Muse...
I'm going away for a day and want to address some of the things you've brought up...it will have to wait for when I get back.
16 May 2006 @ 06:34 by enora : Okie dokie Bruce
I think it's important not to deny the negatives in Judaism or Israel and think they only apply to other people and religions. There is this almost unspoken general rule for Jews and Israelis not to talk about faults, even though people are outspoken and debate all of the time. But in talking with non-Jews it has been a kind of code not to admit to certain things. Yes, there is more than enough criticism from the outside world. However, I think that has to change, too....got to own up to all of it.
31 May 2006 @ 20:05 by jazzolog : This Via My Friend Quinty
From: Sheila Goldmacher
Subject: Fwd: reflections from east Jerusalem
Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 11:54:26 -0700
From my friend and comrade in the struggle who has been witness and
participant in Israel/Palestine for the last 2 months. This is her
latest communication. I thought you should read it as Americans whose
government enables this to continue. Sheila
Begin forwarded message:
> From: Sandra Butler
> Date: May 28, 2006 3:09:21 PM PDT
> To: Sandra Butler
> Subject: reflections from east Jerusalem
> "People who shut their eyes to reality simply invite their own
> destruction, and anyone who insists on remaining in a state of
> innocence long after that innocence is dead turns himself into a
> James Baldwin
> This is the end of my fifth week, only another month before returning
> to California. I continue to move to my own rhythms-- coffee, reading
> the morning papers and the flood of emails from local peace groups and
> the international left, long walks into unfamiliar neighborhoods,
> spectacular fresh fruit (apricots right now) and a growing
> understanding of daily lives under Occupation just below the surface
> of ideology and history.
> I am making my way through a stack of Palestine/Israeli Journals,
> listening in on the conversations left intellectuals and activists
> were having in l999 and 2000. Their concerns and predictions were
> prescient and have not changed, merely become more urgent and ominous.
> I am also reading about the history(ies) of feminism and lesbian
> peace activism here-- marxist, religious, liberal, mizrachi,
> palestinian etc etc... glimpsing women's centers and lesbian
> organizations taking root, coalescing, then ending, only to begin
> again, sparked by other women, other concerns. I am talking with aging
> activists, women who do not expect to see an end to occupied Palestine
> but who continue their commitment to the liberation of a subjugated
> neighboring people. I am meeting women from the next generation of
> activists women with different styles, questions, strategies and a
> powerful sense of outrage and passion. I see the realities of any
> semblance of ordinary life in Palestine deteriorating, punctuated by
> hopes which are repeatedly dashed, and most of all the sense of
> intensity that is so normative here, and the stunning discrepancy
> between the Occupation and daily life in Jerusalem.
> Each morning, the daily paper is filled with ironies. Today, Ha'Aretz
> featured an article titled "Mixed-Marriages"-- this after the Supreme
> Court just denied family re-unification for Israeli/Arabs married to
> Palestinians-- which turned out to be an article about a stylish
> restaurant in Tel Aviv blending culinary flavors in a unique ways.
> Each week brings announcements about an on-going series of
> solidarity actions with Palestinians, most of them reactive to the
> urgent pressures of the ubiquitous presence of the Israeli army,
> settler violence against children requiring accompaniment to help them
> get to school, farming gutted land, re-building demolished homes,
> monitoring checkpoints, providing concrete services to children and
> families suffering the effects of the Occupation. In Israel, there is
> the on-going and necessary work of trying to stretch a safety net just
> a bit further as most welfare and social service funds are diverted to
> the military. And, at least in Jerusalem, there are perhaps a few
> hundred people who actively engage in this peace and justice work.
> This week I accompanied a group of seasoned European activists here
> to work in the OCT's for three months, as they traveled through East
> Jerusalem and the West Bank
> As we entered East Jerusalem we came upon a massive sign in the midst
> of the nearly empty landscape, once Palestinian land, announcing Nof
> Jion, a Private Neighborhood in Jerusalem. Jewish Sephardic Federation
> House to be built by the Digal Investments and Holding Ltd. There
> will be a shopping center, country club, kindergarten, synagogue-- the
> text in English and Hebrew . Contact www.nofzion.co.il Behind the
> sign, the Dome of the Rock glistened in the sunlight.
> There is no garbage pickup in East Jerusalem even though all taxes
> are collected. The narrow streets have large green bins in which
> residents put garbage and, when it is full, burn their contents.
> Part of the expansion of settlements in east Jerusalem centers on the
> development of Maale Adumim which is designed to restrict the
> development of east Jerusalem and to split the West Bank north and
> south. We drove into and around the settlement. In its center is a
> large burbling water fountain, (metres away from where Palestinians
> have little or no water.) The homes have an architectural sameness,
> punctuated by mall like large shops. The streets are wide and
> perfectly clean. There are 4 swimming pools, schools, centers,
> programs for teens, resources for kids. Everything a family might
> want. What's more, it is comparatively inexpensive, providing enormous
> incentive for families from working class, immigrants, students and
> those on a limited income. And the language is comfortable and benign.
> Maale Adumim is not a settlement. It is now merely a neighborhood of
> Arriving in Anata, we are greeted by Salim Shawamreh, whose home had
> been destroyed four times by the Israeli Army. What is different
> about his situation, is that the Committee Against Home Demolitions
> re-built it five times! This last incarnation turned his home into a
> peace center called Beit Arabiya, dedicated to the memories of both
> Rachel Corrie and Nuha Sweidan, both killed in Gaza during demolition
> operations. Here internationals are educated about the nature of the
> demolitions, the confiscation of arable land, the cruel treatment of
> Palestinians, the growing and unchecked violence by settlers, the
> expanding system of by-pass roads and tunnels and the control of water
> and all natural resources.
> We were warmly welcomed as we climbed down out of the bus, and
> entered the small dwelling where lunch was set out for us by two
> family women- spicy chicken, rice, cold salads, watermelon, and liters
> of cold drinks.
> Salim sat in a white plastic chair as we ate our meal telling us
> about his experiences on this piece of land. They were undoubtedly
> words he had spoken hundreds, perhaps thousands of times over the
> years, words designed to personalize the abstraction of demolitions,
> the Israeli laws that requiring permits for building but does not
> issue them to Palestinians, the purposeful destruction of cherished
> family heirlooms and papers.
> He tells his story well, is moving, passionate and fierce in this
> choice of language. Everyone in the room is riveted and no one moves
> as he speaks.
> "The solders began to break the windows when we didn't come out right
> away," he says, as the sound of shattering glass fills our
> imaginations. "Our furniture was thrown out into the dust," as our
> eyes sweep around the room, filled now with stacks of plastic chairs,
> one plastic table and long narrow cushions upon which we are seated.
> "The Red Cross gave us a tent," he goes on, "and we lived in it while
> we re-built, but they came again, destroyed everything, and took the
> tent as well. When we said we needed at least a tent to live, the army
> said we would need to get a permit for a tent."
> "We are refusing to be enemies," he concludes. "It is good to see you
> here. On the ground. We hope to see a brave Israeli leader soon. One
> who will make peace."
> Our time with him and his family is cut short because our group has
> been given exactly one hour to meet with four representatives of Hamas
> and they are eager get to A-ram for the conversation. The Hamas people
> have been very strict about the time they will make themselves
> available so we make our somewhat embarrassed apologies and leave.
> Salim says of course he understands. He turns and enters the peace
> center and I realize he hasn't told us where he lives now. No one
> thought to ask him.
> We drive into A-Ram, the site of last week's vigil to meet people
> from Hamas who are clearly eager to talk with European peace
> activists. We crowd into a small conference room in the Youth
> Development Department facing a large table with a Palestinian flag
> prominently displayed in its center. Within moments, four middle-aged
> men enter, dressed in western clothing. They are warm, charming and
> articulate, as each speaks about another facet of the history of Hamas
> and the recent election.
> "Hamas is not from another planet, one said smilingly. "We've been
> elected by the people. We are Palestinians."
> They speak for nearly a half hour, eager for Europeans to hear their
> position. They repeatedly and in a variety of forms made the following
> Israeli should have no legitimacy. Sanctions are a disaster for our
> people. Pressure needs to be put on the occupier. We are asked to
> acknowledge the legitimacy of Israel yet Israel is not required to
> acknowledge us. For 20 years we have been serving the Palestinian
> people with schools, hospitals, social services. We are a part of the
> struggle, a part of the people. They emphasized the legitimacy of the
> elections, the corruption of the PA and the people's need for a clean
> sweep. Europe is a real civilization, not like America. America is too
> new. The US does not respect humanity as evidenced by their killing of
> the Indians, the realities at Guantanamo.
> Those were the talking points. Then they opened the floor for
> "What are the programs you want to put into effect now?" an Irish man
> asked. .
> The speaker smiled ingratiatingly and said,
> "Ah. The Irish. Now you understand what we are doing better than
> He answered by talking vaguely about an expansion of the programs
> they had been providing the people for the past decades.
> "What about the role of women and the religious aspects of Hamas?"
> one Scottish woman asked.
> "Islam is about humanity. For 1400 years there have been no problems.
> We have all lived in harmony. Three religions in Medina. We are not,
> as members of Hamas, planning to impose anything on anyone."
> "What about suicide attacks?"
> "We are against bloodshed and respect human rights. This question
> should be asked of the Israelis."
> When pressed for circumstance that might lead to attacks, he replied,
> "We hold the Occupation responsible for whatever outcomes result."
> He then spoke at length of European martyrs and zealots over the
> A British academic asked,
> "How exactly do you plan to govern?"
> "Our priority is to reorganize our internal house. We have spent the
> past 20 years fighting the aggressor and now we must clean our own
> At precisely the end of one hour, they smiled, thanked us for coming,
> and left. We milled around a bit, ate from the lavish trays of food
> that had been put out, then walked through the streets of A-Ram back
> to our bus.
> Reaching for legitimacy among internationals here, the skillful
> language used to hold the moral high ground almost, but finally didn't
> obscure the reality that there are, at least not yet, any clear
> programatic steps Hamas is preparing to take. Right now, the
> Fatah/Hamas efforts to calibrate power and authority leave the left
> not knowing quite where to enter, how to engage, where to make their
> alliances. It seems like a holding pattern.
> We attempted to drive directly back to Jerusalem but the bus was
> re-directed because that evening was the start of Jerusalem Day and
> security around the city was on high alert. 600,000 people were
> preparing to celebrate with marching bands, flags, national songs and
> parades, honoring the moment that military commanders Motta Gur's
> voice announced, "The Temple Mount is in our hands-" marking the end
> of the 6 day War--39 years ago.
> Now, nearly 40 years later, there are 41 settlements in the Old City,
> nearly one for each year, with plans to develop 33 more housing units
> near Herod's Gate in the Moslem quarter with walls higher than the
> wall of the Old City in another attempt to "reclaim" all of that land.
> Meanwhile, the Israeli Housing Ministry has requested a budget
> increase to protect settlers in East Jerusalem where 11 compounds
> containing 56 residential buildings that require escorting residents
> as they move from place to place, guarding Jewish schools,
> kindergartens etc. This at a time when health care is underfunded, the
> welfare safety net is in tatters and 1 in 3 Israelis is close to the
> poverty line. Nearly everywhere I walk, soldiers are casually leaning
> against army vehicles, smoking, chewing sunflower seeds, looking
> I decided not to go to Friday's demonstration in Bi'lin, as the
> Israeli soldiers have been racheting up their use of rubber bullets
> and tear gas in the last months, particularly, it seems, against
> internationals. And indeed, three women, all of them internationals
> were, what was described as "mildly" wounded from lobbed tear gas
> canisters that hit them on the head. They were hospitalized and
> released. I'm glad they were there. I'm relieved I wasn't. Instead I
> went to the Friday Women in Black vigil. Most weeks there are 25-30
> women with the same signs and banners they have been using for nearly
> two decades. End the Occupation in English, Arabic and Hebrew. And
> still they stand, Some, the old ones especially, sit. But they never
> miss a week.
> These past few days, the papers here have been filled with coverage
> of all the political permutations of Olmert's meeting with Bush.
> Addressing Congress in Washington, Olmert declared: “We extend our
> hand in peace to the Palestinian People,” as senators and
> representatives gave him a standing ovation. At the very same time
> that Israel’s Prime Minister uttered those words, Israeli forces
> conducted a mid-day large-scale invasion into the heart of Ramallah.
> At Manara Square – Ramallah’s main square, comparable to Tel-Aviv’s
> Dizengoff Square – the soldiers opened fire and shot to death four
> young Palestinians.
> This email letter is my act of faith for today.
For email addresses of these people, please contact me personally.
31 May 2006 @ 20:26 by enora : Jazz
you don't seem to get it after all these years and posts about the real history of the region. There were no "Palestinian lands". The name Palestine was a made up name by the Romans when they warred against Israel. Occupation is misused and misunderstood, and the only ones who are really illegal occupiers are the Jordanians, and here are the facts, again, maybe one day they'll sink in. http://www.vibrani.com/occupiedterritories.htm When you have your own country, you ARE occupying it, right? Israel IS a nation, and it occupies its own lands. And those guys who were killed were terrorists firing on Israelis. Bruce, I think some people will be prejudiced against Jews and Israelis, keep spreading lies no matter what.
1 Jun 2006 @ 09:40 by jazzolog : Email Addies
If you would like to contact Sheila Goldmacher and Sandra Butler, muse, to accuse them of prejudice and lies against Jews, let me know.
1 Jun 2006 @ 09:55 by enora : No thanks
since YOU posted their stuff, why don't you forward them the correct information about "occupied territories?" Jazz, don't you think it's clear as day why you keep posting these articles? ALL of them anti-Jewish, anti-Israel.
1 Jun 2006 @ 16:08 by jazzolog : That Must Be IT, Muse!
It's a personal character flaw in me. Strange I never saw it before...until you envisioned it. For a moment I thought it might be disagreement about a nation's policies...but you're right, it's clear as day what it is. I'm just a bad person. You're right, thank you. What a relief!
1 Jun 2006 @ 22:03 by bkodish : I wouldn't call you a bad person, Jazz.
I just consider you deluded.
Hamas as a part of the Muslim Brotherhood not only has the destruction of Israel as its stated policy but has the goal of replacing it with an Islamic Sharia state. Most Palestinian Arabs support the first if not the second of these goals. Your sniping at Israel and repetition of the kind of the distorted propaganda that you posted above gives support to their cause, the destruction of Israel. You may not consider it such but the effect to me qualifies your views as antisemitic in effect if not intent. Don't worry, the behavior of some Jews, including Israelis, also qualifies.
2 Jun 2006 @ 09:30 by jazzolog : I Shall Continue To Worry
that I have been called an anti-Semite on this Log. Thank you anyway for your attempt to comfort me. I shall not convey your insult to my dear friend Paul Quintanilla, who is an NCN member and can stumble upon this himself and whose family was exiled from fascist Spain, or to his friend Sandra and her friend Sheila.
2 Jun 2006 @ 12:02 by jmarc : Jazz
isn't that like saying some of your best friends are jewish?
5 Jun 2006 @ 03:25 by bkodish : Jazz
I took pains to NOT call you an antisemite.
The extent that that designation worries you provides some measure of your good intentions.
But good intentions sometimes can lead to something other than good results.
Hamas remains a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, one of the most virulently antisemitic, i.e., Jew-hating organizations in the generally Jew-hating Arab/Muslim world.
To the extent that Sandra Butler, you or anyone advocates the kind of distorted view of the Arab-Israeli conflict that appears in the piece you copied above, she or he gives support to Jew-hating.
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