New Civilization News: What constitutes "DOING"?    
 What constitutes "DOING"?16 comments
6 Jul 2004 @ 23:45, by Robert Oveson

I've been getting a lot of pressure lately from a certain friend to "do something", it doesn't particularly matter what, or if it is relevant or significant, or if it is the right thing to do or the wrong thing, just as long as it is "doing something." I reply that I am doing something, I'm thinking, I'm reading, I'm analyzing, and once in awhile I write something and it goes out on the web. That doesn't seem to count, it's simply talking, he wants me to do something.

This seemed to be to be one of the central themes, or issues, in Hermann Hesse's "Magister Ludi: The Glass Bead Game", this differentiation between the world of mind and the world of action. Why is there such an animosity towards the intellectual? Why is it such a taboo to keep digging until you get to the root cause rather than running around trying to stomp out the symptoms? Why does something have to be empirical and destroyable before it is acknowledged as being an action?

Or we could talk about Hesse's book. I know that Ming already has a topic about a game that was inspired by this book, but we could talk about the main concepts of the book itself.

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7 Jul 2004 @ 00:31 by shawa : Doers and
An on-going - off and on - discussion in here! My take on this is that we need both - the brain people who dig and dig, and the "doing" people who might then DO things with the findings, create on the "material" side. The Doers need a vision to keep them on track, and the support of logical structures - and the "Dreamers" need a materialization of their ideas. So - how about a co-operation ? A synergy?
Of course, the ideal partnership is to BE both. Dream up the next civilization AND be a part of its concrete manifestation.

Yup, it is an on-going discussion. (Well unless the topic gets shunned :-) I've just finished reading the GBG and in many ways I'm glad that I hadn't read it up until now. Castalia reminded me so much of Zardoz.  

7 Jul 2004 @ 05:31 by newdawn : synergy
is a good way of looking at it. Grounding ideas into physicality is the only way progress is made.  

7 Jul 2004 @ 07:14 by shawa : Yes, synergy
Each one bringing their particular gift to the building. :-)  

7 Jul 2004 @ 10:05 by sandmann : Doing?
what's up with "DOING"? What's wrong with "BEING"? It is after all in the "being" that we are most human, and that, arguably, is the reason we are here, No? And, by the way, old Herman Hesse was seeking the answer, by way of his many written works, to the nature of "being" not "doing". XO  

7 Jul 2004 @ 10:33 by swan : It is from the Being
that doing happens. We are human beings, it is our work to learn how to "be".  

7 Jul 2004 @ 11:05 by martha : I have been being
for a few years now and many of my friends and family don't seem to understand since I am producing very little in the material world. But my interior self is opening up and I feel I am a much more balanced individual. I also no longer even defend my position of dropping out of the main stream craziness.  

7 Jul 2004 @ 11:21 by scotty : Doing something ! ?
Isn't 'thinking' doing something ?
OK maybe the results aren't immediately 'seen' - but how can it not be doing something !!
I was brought up to 'work' - not often allowed to stick my nose in a book or just sit and think as it was looked upon as being either lazy or day dreaming !
When I left home I had the opportunity to be 'lazy and day dream' more or less as much as I wanted to but often felt a wee bit guilty about it - thank goodness I met Joelle who looks upon my reading as a posative activity - my day dreaming is accepted as my way of looking at the world - and Joelle bless her often tries to see things through my eyes !
Joelle who is very 'practical' and I 'the dreamer' almost always find a way of coming together and using the best of both our capacities to make our little corner of the world a better place ..; whether it's me finding ideas to 'do' the garden and Joelle diving in with a shovel - or whether it's finding ways to solve problems - we have different approaches but the end result usually works out great !

I'd love to be an intelectual Ov - be what you are m'dear and enjoy the fact that you can be !  

7 Jul 2004 @ 11:31 by skookum : sounds to me
like that person has some kind of anxiety. I live with someone with this condition and they cannot stand it if I just want to relax or read or do computer after my day of work. Why aren't I DOING something! You are doing something and it really should not be anyone elses concern unless it is self endangering. It is their problem, not yours.  

7 Jul 2004 @ 21:09 by ov : DOING
Lots of comments, thankyou, familiar names and welcome Georgia to the blogosphere, I'll try to collectively respond.

Lately I've been looking at the difference between doing and letting happen, between pushing in a productive way or simply getting in the way, between wasting time worrying about the maya or seeing clear through to what really matters, listening to the bingo cry that rises above the chatter, sifting the relevant from the banality the acid test of reality, to neither lead nor trail but follow through to the final mile that makes it all worth while.

What is the reality that will not be ignored no matter how hard we try?  

7 Jul 2004 @ 21:20 by bushman : Hmm
Death :} And my personal ideal that, I have faith that I left the camp better than when I came, just in case I have to come back or something.  

7 Jul 2004 @ 23:11 by vaxen : Doing something...
Well that is the basic 'postulate' concerning the '4th dynamic.' Study it ov. Also you may be interested in the works of Bill Robertson. The New CIvilization Game. It is from this work, primarily, that this sites 'dynamic' is derived. Flemming was a Scientologist. Real Scientology is something you probably are not aware of thanks to its' having been taken over by Los Federales a long time ago. However if you dig around you'll find lots of good tech. Hubbards synthesis of metaphysical and para psychological as well as Magickal ideas is little known and often disrespected because COINTELPRS's mission was to absolutely 'discredit' Scientology as it was originally practiced and known. They did a very good job because they are masters of deception and Psyops visionaries par excellence!
I believe Flemming was declared Supressive as well as other folks you may know here at this site. They are, of course, the most un repressive and un-supressive people I know of and hopefully have over come "COINTELPRO's" destructive attack upon their persons. ;) The game you are thinking of was from Magister Ludi and is called "The Glass Bead Game." "Narcissus and Goldmund" was good too.  

8 Jul 2004 @ 03:04 by ov : Doing
Well yes the bottom line empirical pragmatic is that the only thing that every body has to do is die and everything else is an option. Bushman you also mention the possiblility of having to come back again. Have you seen Bill Murray's 'Groundhog Day'? and excellent movie imho.

I was thinking very much about the Glass Bead Game when I wrote that paragraph Vaxen and I think that with the events that have occurred in the last few years Hesse's ideas can be placed in a context that gives them relevance where before they may have been just a warm fuzzy.

I got turned off to Scientology a very long time ago, back in 1973. One of my friends told me of an experience his family had, an aunt of his actually, who got wrapped up with them and kept going for more courses and each course was more expensive than the one before and when they had eventually sucked all the money she had out of her they dumped her and she was really fucked up for a long time. I got the impression that it was an obfucatious con game as well as a collosol time suck and avoided it. Maybe it improved after 1973 but at this stage of the game I don't have either the time or the money to pick it up.  

8 Jul 2004 @ 06:25 by newdawn : being
by its nature, implies a disconnection from the present moment as there is nothing to ground it into. It is being a part of everything and nothing. Doing implies action/activity in the present moment. Making something physical. Yes, be, think, do, these are all a part of this package called life.  

8 Jul 2004 @ 08:51 by spiritseek : are you just feeling a bit guilty
that you don't seem to be doing anything of value or worth to you,
no need to feel that way, sometimes we have to go in slow motion or a stand still in order to grow. Take this time to contemplate what you have learned so far,enjoy the rest.  

8 Jul 2004 @ 15:56 by ov : Doing
Well spiritseek I am feeling a little guilty about not having found a job lately and that is causing me a bit of stress, same ol same ol story. Mainly though I am feeling pissed off for once again letting myself be used by having somebody occupy my time. I may very well have learned a lot from it so it wasn't a total waste. A big problem I have is life in general wanting me to be so occupied with "life" that I don't have the time or inclination to reach out on the net. I keep finding myself inside of closed conference rooms, or work groups that seem to be designed to keep me conceptually contained. A place where I can vent my energies without disturbing anything. I know, I know, take responsiblility for myself and not let this happen but it seems to keep happening over and over again. Meanwhile time slips away and contacts that I thought were made get lost with another website that vanishes.  

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