New Civilization News: Problems Solving Problems    
 Problems Solving Problems16 comments
20 Jun 2004 @ 18:16, by Robert Oveson

Problems demand by their very definition to be solved because otherwise they would simply be interesting situations and not problems. This structure in itself becomes a problem because the solution is already hidden within the problem analysis and the problem then switches to one of finding a means of obtaining this solution, but this solution may not be the only solution, or even the best solution. It may not even be the desirable solution simply because it usually treats a symptom rather than a cause, since it was the symptom that identified that there was a problem.

Sometimes you have to go beyond procedure and get creative; have to look at things from one or more steps removed and accept that we don't have a clue what the solution is, let alone how to implement it. (But let's save that for another article or this will never get posted -- but somehow I suspect it involves getting to the root causes and tackling the taboo)

This was one of the insights that I picked up last week at a lecture by Bruce Elkin, who was promoting his book for Simplicity and Success. I had been getting his newsletter for awhile and I was thinking of hiring him for a coach but that's a different story. After reading through Ming's NCN collection I thought this point was more relevant.

It occurred to me that Ming's articles, and most of the comments, which were by men, were oriented around a formalized problem solving structure; the engineers and architects of the new civilization. The few females that commented were of a more artistic persuasion and it sounded to me like they didn't think their perspective was being heard, or appreciated. That maybe there are stories and visions that are very important even though they are not concrete enough for the engineer and architect. That maybe we have to birth this baby rather than build it.

Does this fire any neurons?

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25 Jun 2004 @ 06:52 by newdawn : my experience, Robert
has been one of a way of dealing with problems in a different manner than "structuring" a solution. I am talking about my life here and the way it has taken shape. When I am wanting something to be in my life I make a statement about it and then I let it go. If something comes along that I think is what I want and it falls through then I know that something better will be sent in its place. This has ALWAYS happened in my life. I have not always been happy with the initial thing that falls through but with hind sight it is very clear that the second thing was the better. I feel that during my dream time I do all the leg work of putting the events and contacts into place and in my waking hours I experience these things in the physical reality. This perhaps sounds very way out and airy fairy but it really does work in my life. Building a sound foundation physically happens when you have prepared the ground etherially and then with discernment accept that which is presented. A very profound quote by Alexander Graham Bell is something I have reminded myself of many a time especially when my life has been going through turmoil and great change. It is "when one door closes, another opens. But we often look so regretfully upon the closed door that we don't see the one that has opened for us". In other words we have to allow the solution to come to us and be perceptive enough to allow that which is for the highest good to manifest, which may not be what we thought of in the first place. Expect only that which is for the highest good for all and accept that which is presented without criticism, judgement or emotion. It just is.
I must also add one further thing to this comment and that is that unless you can make this change in your nown life you have Buckley's Chance of implementing it in society.  

25 Jun 2004 @ 07:45 by spiritseek : why not
merge the feminine aspect with the masculine one and create something that really works!  

25 Jun 2004 @ 08:55 by shawa : Haha!
"We have to birth the baby", yeah indeed, not analyze the birth to death, and then throw the baby away with the bathwater!  

25 Jun 2004 @ 10:23 by ming : Wholeness
So, the trick is maybe how we can do all of it. Allowing the baby to be born at the same time as it is being constucted. It is like the thing with how an elephant seems like a very different thing depending on whether you're looking at the tail, its trunk, its leg, or whatever. "It" is something multi-dimensional and multi-facetted. Some people see it as something to construct, some as something to analyze, some as something to dialogue about, to feel, to dream about, something to do, to campaign about, to dance, to paint, or to bake. And the hard part is to just get to work on designing it or engineering it, if that is what feels right, without at the same time having to think that it is wrong to dance it or paint it or chant about it.  

25 Jun 2004 @ 10:32 by spiritseek : Isn't that what we all do...
Birthing the idea before we create something? How else is it going to work? Thats wholeness! Sometimes you have to back away and wait for the inspiration to hit you. However you do that doesn't matter as long as it works for you. Meditating,chanting or any thing you use for relaxing. Thank you Ming, for allowing your feminine side to merge with your masculine side.  

25 Jun 2004 @ 13:49 by ov : Balancing
Thank you for the comments I will pulse this through my brain. Perhaps I should try to explain what I mean by this pulse, though I don't expect it to be clear once and for all this enigma that defies being pigeonholed more like nailing jello to the wall but maybe in the subliminals the flux of the rise and fall of the breathing living pulse we call life. The eastern orient circles around and the hierarchy of the pyramid like an arrow tip keeps flying forever forward in time, but the pulse keeps contracting to the center source and then spreading out in dispersed arrays like a sea anemone reaching out and gathering in peek and retreat ad infinitum it pulses through my mind.

Heh, how about that, I didn't even need to be on the weed to spin that out. Haven't been for a few weeks, perhaps I'm on the verge of quitting forever after more than thirty years of chronic addiction to the green leaf lady. Self medication for the ADHD or maybe just a way to escape life and pass the time until I die, and yes I know I've lost so many years but maybe not, I'm starting to awake and better still I think I'm finding reason to get out of bed, and all these facets and dimensions rolling around my head, are the key to comprehend my healing and through this portal pay off external dividends.

A couple of weeks ago the universe sent me a message through the super cheap bin at the used book store, and a couple of days ago I was prompted to read it, a book about how addiction is a symptom to cover codependcy, and about the ongoing process of recovery. I think that most of the people in NCN are codependents because if we weren't we would be happily adjusted to the dominant consumerist paradigm, see no reason to change and see us as nuts and flakes rather than those with whom they resonate. So another layer gets added to my thoughts, and new words and terms, like boundaries and merging, balance and integration, diversity and homogenity.

Before I run off to do some chores I'll mention another point of Bruce Elkin's lecture, well a couple.

First, was that resolving symptoms is dysfunctional in the long term since it enables us to keep repeating the same behaviors that caused those symptoms in the first place.

Second, was that the creative process is achieved through the dynamic tension of what we want and where we are, and we keep going through cycles and making changes to our work of art until we decide that this particular piece is finished. He also mentioned that this was more like spirals than cycles, and we either spiral up or we spiral down (I thought of it as pulses rather than spirals but heh that is subjective interpretation as was most of that lecture since I wasn't taking notes). The key to spiraling up instead of down was replace YEAH BUT thinking with OK AND thinking.

Anyway, my latest line of thinking on all this is to shift from building a civilization, and to even go beyond awakening a mass consciousness, to healing the mass consciousness which is already awake but multiple personality dysfunctional, so that we can make the shift from the adolescent stage of the species to an adult phase that is capable of maintaining a relationship of love.

And I have this really strong feeling that the OrgasmoVolution is a big part of this.


25 Jun 2004 @ 18:50 by spiritseek : Interesting comment Ov
I would like to hear more of what your thinking because I feel its helping you get in touch with yourself! Your tuning in to good vibrations.
"YEAH BUT thinking with OK AND thinking." a very good idea here.  

25 Jun 2004 @ 21:52 by ov : Thanks Spiritseek
Yes there have been a lot of connections coming together for me right now. That is good, but it is also a distraction because it makes it so easy to procastinate and I need to get my resume typed up and get a job real soon. My resume looks so bloody pathetic and explaining the huge holes and the lack of real world progress that I've made. I'm also starting to worry that the ageism thing might start to be a hassle for finding security guard job, and I don't have credentials for hardly anything else.

This idea that the collective consciousness may already be awake is a rather new thought for me, just in the last month or so. Since 1989 I have been working the concept of waking up the global brain, but then this new train of thought kept creeping in that maybe it already was awake just totally fucked up just like me except multiple personalities is one of the few diagnosis that don't seem to fit for me personally. Then I started thinking well, that is the more general case, and does give me something more to work with. Plus the more I start looking at what it would take to fix myself I'm thinking that the quick fix solution is probably just a temporary delusion and not a real cure. Not that it has to be a long painful grind, but it's not some deus ex machina where some outside force magically solves all your problems for you.

Keep in mind that I am projecting quite a bit here, and the codependency is a new hammer and everything is a nail. There a probably lots of real good people here in NCN that aren't codependent simply because they are so far along in their recovery.

One of the challenges that I'm finding with this approach is that the self help literature doesn't seem to acknowledge the dysfunctional nature of the society at large. All these attachment theories, etc are to bring a person into proper alignment with our culture. Teh question is how to bring personal values into alignment with a culture that doesn't exist yet. I think it is time to write a few articles about the change process from the business management aspect for creating learning organizations.

Plus there are a few people that I know from working at the adolescent treatment facility that I'm going to try and talk into starting up their own blogs here and get a little community within a community happening.

And then there is always riffs from who knows where. Great things can happen when people get playful. :-)  

25 Jun 2004 @ 22:39 by newdawn : just like to add one more thing
"Be the change you want to see" (Gandi, I believe)  

25 Jun 2004 @ 23:02 by ov : Good One
That is a good quote Lydia. I've been seeing it around a lot lately.

Gandhi was also a water snake. The idea of his that I liked the best was that the best way to independence was simply not to be dependent, learn to be happy taking care of yourself. Kind of funny now that I think about it but it has been only fairly recently that I've thought of him like that, before that it was as an oppositional person. He had "Just Say No" down to a science before old Nancy even had the idea.  

26 Jun 2004 @ 00:11 by spiritseek : you got me thinking
and thats a good thing. Keep the process going and maybe more will click. Something I once said, "by thinking you want to be there you already are there" and I'm sure you heard this one, "the question is more important then the answer".  

26 Jun 2004 @ 05:18 by jazzolog : "Oh Bother!"
I don't know why that exclamation popped into my head, but I remember reading it in various novels (romantic I suppose) uttered by a character who just has encountered a problem. I don't know if people say that anymore...or if ever they did, but I think some think it. I think there's a sliding scale of some kind as to whether I solve a problem myself, or whether I "have it taken care of." The second "solution" involves paying somebody or else handing it over to a friend or loved one.

In relationships nothing is more tricky than handing off problems to one's partner or associate. Probably everyone hates being taken for granted and even more taken advantage of. But we do have our categories of expertise and stuff we really like to do...and some of us like solving problems. I've often wondered whether "creative" people prefer to get others to "solve problems," do the maintenance, and handle cleanup too if possible. I know in some relationships I have, it can be a satisfying tradeoff to do backup for a person more creative than I am at something or other. But the big Problem in love and friendship is finding oneself stuck on a scale that won't slide anymore...and identified as the "helper" when you want to take the creative lead.  

26 Jun 2004 @ 07:43 by martha : Creative people can
also find new ways to solve old problems.
You can't solve a problem if you are thinking in the mind set that created the problem.  

26 Jun 2004 @ 07:48 by spiritseek : Winnie The Pooh
says "Oh bother".  

26 Jun 2004 @ 09:52 by ov : Everything is commodified
Even our problems have been comodified. There isn't any problem that can't be solved by having somebody take care of it for you. What a twisted scheme eh where all you have to do to create new markets is to create problems. Heh, wait a minute, on the big picture scale haven't we all been scammed by this, and what adds insult to injury, or is it more like rubbing salt in the wound, that we pay the problem makers lots and often through our taxes, and as a result they buy themselves out of the consequences and still have lots left over to feel comfortable and smug. Now how in the hell did we get suckered into that?

Well ov, that's just another question that you are not supposed to ask.

Oh sorry. A thought along the lines of simplicity and commodified is that we get this mind set that anything we do for ourselves for free is too expensive. Now is that warped or what? One time at a neighborhood event I mentioned how expensive it was to keep a vehicle compared to taking public transport, and this retired guy snapped back that it wasn't any cheaper because he had to wait a half hour for the bus, and when he was working he was making twenty bucks an hour so you had to add ten dollars onto the bus fare to get the true cost, this despite the fact that he was retired and didn't have anything to do all day long but hang out or watch tv. Hard to overcome that consumerist programming I guess.

I think I will do something productive today like getting a pager activated so that I can have a number to put on my resume. Used to be easy to get a telephone but these days without a credit card you need a large deposit and that doesn't even give you long distance or ADSL. Feh, the credit card, that slippery slope tobaggan ride to the mark of the beast tattooed on your hide.  

26 Jun 2004 @ 10:00 by spiritseek : Indebted for life...
thats how i see the credit card scams. Too much interests that keeps you tied to them. I also see where they make the problem and you have to buy the solution from them. Egads! sounds too much like the real world.  

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