New Civilization News: Rethinking Cities    
 Rethinking Cities10 comments
16 Feb 2005 @ 23:19, by swanny


Well all hail the Kyoto Protocol, on this its day of birth.
It'd be your February 16, 2005 and with much foot dragging it seems
the Protocol is now Law and in effect.

It is interesting that its basis is on a somewhat economic model, which is understandable in a capitalistic society and world. Credits to pollute are the order of the day and bought and sold as simply another commodity on the global markets perhaps.

Al-righty then but wait.... We have missed the boat somehow I think.
I think Global warming and CO2 emissions are not the problem but a symptom.
The real problem would seem to stem from the urban jungles and cities.
Cities which by design are unsustainable and serve not people but .... whatever.

Hmmmm really??? What is a city then??? Who does it serve and how many?
Can a city be to big? Can a city be self sufficient? Can a city please all of the people all of the time? Is the city a natural or organic entity or is it a machine or
processor of some sort? What do we really know about cities anyway?
They don't seem to have been around all that terribly long and is there perhaps need to investigate what makes a good and sustainable urban area and what do we base this judgment or reasoning on? Is city designing and building a science or an art? What is the history of the city? What makes a good, sustainable healthy and green city?

A lot of questions true but the questions have to be asked I suppose if we are to do more than just treat the symptom rather than address the real problem.

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17 Feb 2005 @ 06:40 by astrid : Dear Al
Interesting Q;s about Cities. Made me think about Paul Glover's re-construction of Los Angeles into a Green City; look here

I called Paul G. today to get his comments on ncn. But he was not in today.As soon as I get hold of him I will have him comment your thoughts here. In the meantime, you "have" to do with just mine.... : )
I want you to know that cities have been around a hell of a long time!!!!.... so the statement that they haven't been around that long is not quite accurate.... of course.... Everything in Life is relative, we know tha,t but if we put cites in Historic perspective to the rest of History, they've been around already in Lemurian and Atlantis times... which is pretty long ago!
Damascus in Syria is the world's oldest city, having been a functioning city for MORE THAN 5000 consecutive years - no break there!
Considering the Flood was appr 9000 years ago and that together with the Atlantis' destruction by arrogant humans' own hands was just prior....What didn't get destroyed then and there, went down under water in the Flood, that followed not too long after Atlantis Fall. Man fell into an exrteamly low ( consciousness) -cosmic vibrations- and had to "crawl" back from there!....
That resulted in cities in (Ancient Egypt and) Sumeria with cites like (New ) Babylon ( the Old Babylon was actually an antedeluvian City =in PRE -Dynasty; Egypt before the "Ancient" Egypt, and does not exist anymore, than maybe as ruins), Ur, from where Abraham walked out more than 5000 years ago... plus others.
Our civilisation = Western Culture, has its roots from Sumer/ia; later called Mesopotamia, Assyria and even later called Iraq....
The Mesopotamian Babylon still exists ( whatever is left after Bush;s butchery!....) some 50 miles -or was it kilometers??; 26 miles, in that case, south of Bagdad.
Cities originally were CITADELS surrounded by Citywalls... many of these walls still are at least partially up and protecting the Old Town of the city.
Basel in Zwitserland is more than 2000 years old. Has always been city, up n' running, so to speak.
The Old Town in Stockholm is from The dark Ages. Many of the house foundations on which houses stand five stories tall are from years 1100 -1200, though MOST of them are only from 15 hundreds.... but that is older than you thought, I'm pretty sure!
These are just a few examples. The Old World; all of Europe, Asia Minor and Far East too, like China, is teaming with examples.....
Only cities in the US are YOUNG!... even the oldest city here is younger than any city I lived in in Europe...
What a Wide topic you picked....heheheheh..... lots and lots could be said. But I won't bore you any longer.... ; )  

17 Feb 2005 @ 08:58 by swanny : Trees
Hi astrid and thanks for your comment
yes it is somewhat relative but I was talking in terms of
the science that says homo sapiens of some form are
about 200,000 years old so in that respect our cities are
still quite young and if you look at say a tree for instance
which is like a city (stationary) they are younger still.
I was wondering if we could build our cities like a tree
say in an "organic" fashion then maybe we'd have something
a little more natural. Our cities as they are seem much more
parasitic or machine like an hence my concern. Trees on the
other had cycle and recycle and in some ways contribute more to the land.
I think some of the native populations on the west coast had
some interesting living arrangements. There lodges were
sort of formed in a circle around a central "common" area and it
was more of a communal living arrangement and with a less
"dense" population. And then the native people in the south
built their homes into the side of the cliffs much as the swallows
do. Any way I think it is a pertinent topic in that it addresses the more
fundemental "problem" and not just the symptom.

Thanks again

Article link =  

17 Feb 2005 @ 09:20 by swanny : Green Cities
Your link is a good one and some much
needed work is "beginning" to be done
in just this "necessary" area.
Theres one too about "walkables"
link =  

17 Feb 2005 @ 09:23 by swanny : Mings Thread
Also too Ming had started a thread on a related
topic about 4 months or so ago.
Can't quite find it at the moment......  

17 Feb 2005 @ 09:41 by swanny : Other Green City LInks
Green City LInks


Link =

Link =

Link =

Link =

Link =  

17 Feb 2005 @ 16:26 by astrid : Well You , Swanny and Ming too
I tried to remove this silly thing, Swanny, but it just keeps hanging in there!... ??? : 0  

17 Feb 2005 @ 19:32 by astrid : Well You , Swanny and Ming too
plus the rest of you wonderful guys here who work so diligently to embetter the life for us all and to bring forth the New Civilisation ( you know -and we all know- who you are!... : ) / )
" Our cities as they are seem much more parasitic or machine like an hence my concern."
No kidding, Swanny!!!.... If people only knew how the cities we have today, look underground!..... they would have a heart attack!....Tokyo, Paris, London, Rome, Wa. DC, stories and stories down, plus culverts from one end to the other and all the tunnels for Elect. Water. Sewer ..... Very parasitic. Ugly!
This IS one of the MAJOR reasons why re-constructing the already heavily abusive and abused cities is something we shouldn't even try undo conventionally, let alone try to make them green! Nope!
They vibrate in such a low vibration so that when time is right they will literally dissolve!!!!!!..... crumble like a crumcake!
By then there will be enough number of people who have actually risen in their vibrations/consciousness high enough to master DE-MATERIALISATION; the guys who have reached the Master level; the next higher above Divine Magician, who knows Instant Manifestation.
After that we rise one more step to Master level, of which Jesus is History's most famous Master.But by no means the only one! He dematerialized even death, not to mention diseases. Remember that He said: "These things, and greaer, will you do"....
Well UN-DOING NUC Plants, plus all kinds of other TOXIC Stuff , including whole TOXIC CITIES and DUMP-SITES would in my mind count as "Greater Things" ; things that The New Civilisation doesn't feel being in Harmony with Life.
What we really need to focus on is "how to" get to this level of consciousness!.... Consciousness grows in Cosmic Power exponentially, just like Earthquakes!
Many of you who read these lines now will understand it all intellectually just fine, like myself. But it doesn't have REAL value for any of us before we actually master it experientially!....."ME is given all the Power in Heaven and on Earth!" .... Curious yet?... I personally love this "stuff" ; the most empowering I have found yet, and I'm happy to share with friends their findings and my findings and see what "final soup" we can come up with... : )  

30 Aug 2005 @ 12:15 by bapty : Rethinking Cities
Cities arose for reasons that, on balance and now that we have excellent systems of communication, are no longer valid. I think there is very good reason why we should abandon cities and turn to living in small, interlinked, largely self-sufficient cities. This would be a majoc change for the West, but not for a large part of the world's population.  

30 Aug 2005 @ 12:18 by bapty : Rethinking Cities
My previous comment, for self-sufficient cities read self-sufficient communities. Goodness, who ever heard of a self-sufficient city?!  

30 Aug 2005 @ 20:30 by swanny : Communication
Yes much of the need for "travel" is communication
and now its easier to stay "in touch"
so less "need" for travel but its still nice
to "travel" a little at times....
Now matter how good the "communication systems" are it's
not quite the same as "being there".
Its like hearing a band on CD and then being at
their "live" concert, two different and perhaps totally
"unique" experiences....


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