|New Civilization News: Why do we need a Geodemocracy?|
Category: Social System Design
18 comments4 May 2005 @ 12:05 by swanny : Means
Perhaps I am thick but I sense some "worth" here
though I cannot or fail to see the means or the "new" means by which geodemocracy accomplishes its goals and objectives. Is it "force" or is it "gold" or "currency" or "ideas" or "work" or something entirely other... perhaps "love" ?
What is a worthy "means" though. I still subscribe at times to the means of "honor" yet honor is passe or so I'm told. So the current system accomplishes it objectives with means both worthy and unworthy, yet until we come up with a better or improved means how can anything change. A "fair" means... such as "law" or "honorable laws". Law is the means but law without honor is not worthy in my opinion. As well this law perhaps would admit that the mere existence of nuclear "weapons" is a crime against humanity and a crime even against the rule of law, a weapon of such magnitude is beyond reason and sanity and bespeaks the "deathwish" of it progenitors, for it discriminates neither between freind or foe or even "other" and assualts us all.
4 May 2005 @ 12:20 by swanny : Territory
Most "real" global issues and disputes in our current world tend to revolve around the basic and even "primal" aspect of territory and perhaps more modernly market place.
How do we address these territorial issues in a fair just and honorable way and how do we assign territory and perhaps create an "ethical" market place.
I suppose there is no "simple" or semi-complex solution but perhaps education in a way and maybe "the mutual law" or "golden rule."
4 May 2005 @ 22:05 by rcarratu : Territory
As far as I can find out, territory is an instinctive trait among specific predators, but only in terms of individuals or family groups, as in wolves. There are no collective territorial forces in animals nor humans. Territory among collective groups of humans is better explained in terms of terror oriented social systems. Even tribes did not fight over territory in pre-history... they were most likely to orgy and share. There is no evidence of warfare or battle before 10,000 years ago, the violence starting right after the agricultural revolution, during the Hunter Lodge counter revolution when agricultural tribes were enslaved by hunter lodge tribes.
As for market places, there can be no fair just or honorable market places... it's not a trait which can exist in that social agreement. The entire concept of economics as arising naturally is bogus, coined from whole cloth by the robber barons of the 1920s who applied Darwinism to their practices to make out that economics, and their amassing of wealth, was a natural process. Actually, all economics was imposed by force by 'Godkings' in the last 10,000 years, arising from 'military script' in order to prevent the starvation of slaves on an army's march path.
All economics was based upon the taking of slaves and their harvests and resources by force, by the sword and now the gun. That is not changed, and no aspect of economics has any relationship to furthering human survival since it is not a sane system. It is the cause of the world's problems, not the solution.
I've been trying to understand objectively why humans have made the mistakes we made throughout our existence for 40 years. I researched 'first time' events, going through the evidence but not the theories, since most theories are biased by our culture. I studied all the evidence going back almost a million years of human experience, and this is what I found.
There was a first time for every social attitude we tend to take for granted as natural human behavior. Human behavior is actually every way humans can be, from extremes to commonality, and if anything can be called 'original sin' it would have to be the first time some starving hunter tribe declared agricultural people to be animals which they then domesticated, enslaving them. The decision of that Hunter Lodge leader is the most significant decision in all human existence and the root of all the worse horror on the planet now. From it came the military and economics and slavery and most torture and mass murder.
It was not necessary but it is as it is. We must see past the envelope of bull that hides the result of that ancient mistake and rise above it, then change the world. It was changed by human will, it can be corrected by human will.
And that is what I'm trying to do.
4 May 2005 @ 22:40 by astrid : Dear Roan
what you say is excellent all the way til: "There was a first time for ....." that paragraf does not translate in my third-language-knowledge to anything comprehensive!...:(
Would you please be so kind that would RE-state for me; I might get it if your wording or order of words or... changes slightly. See, Humans have NOT EVOLVED we DESCENDED DOWN from a DIVINE Consiousness and are still REvolving back to our Origins. Some call it Today: Our Ascension Process - and rightfully so; once we reach the vibrational level where we brake through to the next OCTAVE ( remember your Musical Scales you worked on so hard as a kid!....)we DO ascend into a NEW Physical Reality what in/from THIS octave appears as "Nothing but LightBody", though each Octave is physical and tangible to all within THAT Octave!
Hunter is hunter because they are on the descending path. On the way back up that particular vibrational field we are; Nomads, Travellers, Gypsies, Beduines, Wanderes; The SAGE/es or The ( Three) Wise Men, searching for the Christ-Child (in us).... etc etc.
4 May 2005 @ 23:28 by rcarratu : Astrid
I'm not going to argue with your cosmology. I don't buy that one, I go only by what I can experience myself, and consider all else as possible but not proven. I think we went from One to multiplicity, in order to experience it, but I cannot see it, or us, as separate. There is, in my experience, only one soul, and it has a vast multitude of points of view, some of which are intelligent and some which name themselves. I say this because I have experienced, and continue to experience, that One, without any separation. The levels you refer to are all available to any of us, at any time, and most people who are not conscious of their consciousness slide from one to another almost randomly, in response to situations. I do not do that. I find no separation between the spiritual and the material, between you and me, between the atom and galaxies like grains of sand spread through Universe. It's all One.
Until an individual ego experiences that, the tendency is to see each person as separate, on a separate path, and responsible only for themselves and their own consciousness. Once that experience has occurred, one finds no separation, no separate path, and find they have an ability to respond which defines their responsibility to all consciousness everywhere.
So in the linear experience of time, there was first time choices and the resulting karma. This ancient mistake defines our world more than anything else, and we as a whole must fix that mistake or we will eventually not grow spiritually any farther on that One path which holds us all.
It's the difference between 'small boat' spirituality and 'big boat' spirituality. The former says "I have no responsibility to anyone but myself." ...the other says "All of us are in this together, and our spirituality grows with the synergy of our consciousness which gives us a ever growing ability to respond.".
Love and peace, my friend,
5 May 2005 @ 01:20 by astrid : I totally agree with you!
I don't see any disagreement or issue to "argue with my/your cosmology!" We are in fact saying the same thing! But there is this one tiny part in your statement above, that I have difficulties in understanding the ENGLISH LANGUAGE; the formulation, so it doesn't make sense.(I told you, english is my third language... not my greatest forte as far as languages go. I'm doing my best to continuously improve my Engl skills... but... hhhuughhh well) But, Hey, don't worry about it. I got most of what you said and I love it...not least because it always is a joy for me when someone else sees "Things" the way I've see/n them
5 May 2005 @ 09:05 by fleer : Maybe I´m narrowminded
and seen too much of Noam Chomsky lectures but what´s the difference between geonet and anarchism ?
But I agree with Swanny. I also sense a good deal of "worth" in your articles.
6 May 2005 @ 03:51 by rcarratu : Sorry Astrid and yes, Fleer (grin)
Sorry Astrid, I didn't realize it was purely a language problem. I see us as being the development of a consciousness for the planetary ecosystem, not something that comes from outside the planet or this reality, nor with individual destinies. Our individual-ness comes from our biology, being individual swirls in the flow of planetary energy, like a current in a river flowing in a whirlpool, made up only of the flowing water, but yet individual in it's location and characteristics.
Fleer, a geodemocracy is a form of anarchy, if anarchy is just purely voluntary cooperation. Some have called it a communism, and it is definitely not, because communism is forced cooperation, and still others have had other names for it, but in every case, the names described forced cooperation. It is really not an anarchy because an anarchy refuses all rules, and a Geodemocracy is a few structural rules that allows the implementation of what coerced cooperation systems had said they would provide but couldn't. An anarchy is like water, which must be frozen into a structure before it can be built with.
It all comes from the observation that what humans generate comes not from the superficial systems they are dominated by, but by their enlightened self-interest and higher associations. ...and most of all, by Nature itself, which provides everything free of charge. We are, after all, Nature being aware of itself.
Political, religious, and economic systems are like coatings of rust on the surface of human design. A geodemocracy would be like the structural nuclear dynamics which holds metal atoms together, something which makes a world without the coating of political, religious, and economic rust which now corrupt it. The possibilities are incredible, and far outreach the best that the rust can provide.
6 May 2005 @ 17:04 by astrid : Your Allegory overrides...
...all possible Lanuage barriers and made it instantly possible to see what you wanted to convey! LOVE your Allegory: "like a current in a river flowing in a whirlpool, made up only of the flowing water, but yet individual in it's location and characteristics." Brilliant! Great comment overall emphasizing the importance of the energyprocesses individuals put forth is more important for the Wellbeing of All than the 'Social Position' the individual holds (in the group).
(For instance; how the three Aggregation States are meant to interact/be used to
produce a sustainable reality for all, is more important than the person who is in charge of 'doing the job', so to speak. If we don't obey the Rules of the Physics, the Physics will "get us" one way or the other, sooner or later!!! Oooh how we Humans have difficulties with this one, eh? Isn't it exactly this what the whole Ego centricity is all about an indvividual swirl's SelfImportance -or The "VIP Syndrome" In Action: Me, Me, Me!
Tough Lesson for most of us!....
Thank you, Roan! : )
7 May 2005 @ 19:14 by swanny : Democracy Misconstruded
Just taking a bit from elsewhere
and thankyou for your words roan
I disagree though that territory is not an issue
It was the direct issue of the 2nd world war and hitlers
Lebaun Stroom or Living room or space.
anyway people have perhaps an oversimplistic understanding
of democracy as simply being majority rules.
Theres is a further qualification or caveat though
being " THE GREATEST GOOD FOR THE GREATEST NUMBER"
How we go about "reflecting" that qualification in our present
electorate system is perhaps the problem or challenge
we now face.
7 May 2005 @ 19:20 by swanny : Two
Democracy then is a complex or compound question.
And thus should perhaps be reflected by "two" votes
One to determine the particular "greatest good issue"
and one to determine the majority issue.
Now which one come first....
Hmmmm does it matter ....
7 May 2005 @ 19:32 by swanny : Example
Exactly thats it
Have two questions on the ballot
The first to determine the choice
of the major issue that concerns the electorate
or constituency at the the time
taken from say oh I suppose a maxium of 10 issues
and the second to determine ones choice of
Therefore the results would lead to a more
balanced and realistic and full determination
of the populace and uphold this deeper principle
and understanding of democracy.
That of the "GREATEST GOOD FOR THE GREATEST NUMBER"
What do you consider to be the major issue
in this campaign:
4. International Issues
5. Domestic Issues
Who do you wish to cast your vote for
5. Buddist hee hee
I digress into digression
7 May 2005 @ 19:57 by swanny : Agenda
It would be the electorate then determining the agenda
The results of the candiate vote would
represent a term for the election ie: 4 or 5 years
but the results of the issue portion might set the
agenda for that term in that the major issues
would have the electorate sanctioned authority
to be reflected in how the house would be bound
to set its time table ie: major issues would be
given more time and such on the elected representative
order papers and agenda.
8 May 2005 @ 00:23 by rcarratu : Swanny -do you dig a ditch with a spoon?
All currently used form of republics use forms of democracy which makes voting a futile and foolish illusion. They cannot determine nor 'program' anything into the decision making of the tiny few pundits with enough money to hire those who are running for election. The population is both faster to understand and faster to find solutions than any kind of delegated authority could keep up with EVEN IF THEY ACTUALLY TRIED TO FOLLOW THE ELECTORIAL WILL.
No, democracy must be something which the people do constantly, without delegation of authority of any kind. Come up with that, and you have a geodemocracy.
8 May 2005 @ 00:27 by rcarratu : Astrid ...If we just understand
If we just understand what we really are, then we can perceive that we are all supremely important, equal in our existance, way more than our egos can imagine. Social position is an old judging of importance to the individual, and it fades when the individual is perceiving the One. Our real value to the world and each other is eternal and inherent. Every atom is a perfect shape of energy, and we are made of atoms flowing through us, and our consciousness also comes from that perfect energy in those atoms... only our egos, filled with misunderstanding and bad data make mistakes and judge other's social position. That's because egos are like computers, and many ideas and bad data learned in the past are like viruses and distort our minds. There is no 'me', there is really only 'us', as Universe being aware of itself. Thus we are individuals and a collective One, and of supreme value that way, and only half value if we ignore one or the other.
The Geodemocracy proposal is balanced between the individual and the One, as a government should be, and it does it not by force or good will, but by the geometry of it's structure, which is why it is incorruptable. It's an idea whose time is close...
8 May 2005 @ 00:42 by swanny : Conscience
Then the people have to be of a "common" conscience.
Yet the society of the day is failing miserably in
instilling any socially and environmentally sustainable
conscience in the people.
Without a common sense of "conscience" the world or at least humanity
is lost and has not the sense to dig a ditch at all, spoon or more.
8 May 2005 @ 03:21 by astrid : Swanny,
that's only due to the ego-dis-ease. As that is being healed more (and more) of the rest of the illnesses are being healed as they are a direct consquence of the ego-diesase.
13 May 2005 @ 06:58 by rcarratu : Conscience
Stress in a society causes both growth and shrinkage. ...especially in terms of consciousness. But nothing in the past parallels now, this unique few generations. We spiral into the future, and this gives many the superficial opinion that history repeats itself, but in reality, every spiral is different, mainly because of advances in weaponry and livingry and population growth. The world is not yet overpopulated, although many believe it is, so now is the time to bring something more balanced than ancient 'kingdoms' renamed 'democracy'.
Conscience is a sign of higher consciousness, and something not taught but inherent. But in many, with their consciousness stunted by brainwashing or education or poverty or too much wealth, the conscience does not emerge until after the deeds are done, sometimes years later when in a moment of higher consciousness the person faces their own evil actions. This happens a lot to Vets all over the world.
So if we can, through education and observation and communication give a hand up in consciousness to anyone through such mechinisms as the Geodemocracy, in an instant the conscience emerges and the individual has to deal with their past... and then if the provoking force, like a geodemocracy, is still there, it can help them go higher, rather than sinking into despair, and help them up. Vet organizations and churches are quite good at this, although most churches are too dogma bound to be a lot of help. Usually it is the family which brings up and holds the consciousness strong in the turmoil of the individual's horror at their past actions.
When the ego is rebooted, forgiveness is the result, for each individual is a new person, reborn into true perception of reality.
Other entries in Social System Design
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6 Aug 2008 @ 07:40: In quest of a New Civilization: Summary and going ahead
12 Mar 2008 @ 17:14: The Vital Necessity for Agreement
6 Aug 2007 @ 11:40: America The Vindictive
13 Jun 2007 @ 17:47: Scale of confront, including mechanics of polarization
15 Jul 2006 @ 16:05: Global Assembly Progress Report
2 Jun 2006 @ 14:11: Boring or Specific?
19 Apr 2006 @ 12:52: The Global Social Reality
10 Feb 2006 @ 08:13: The true you
7 Jan 2006 @ 12:57: The Unworkable Practice of Permanent Leadership