New Civilization News: Mohammed Cartoons    
 Mohammed Cartoons881 comments
3 Feb 2006 @ 00:25, by Flemming Funch

So, I mentioned the controversy about a Danish newspaper having published some Mohammed cartoons, which has created a huge negative response across the Muslim world. You know, Danish people being beaten up, Red Cross workers having to return home, countries closing their embassies, terrorist groups issuing death threats, etc.

French newspaper France Soir printed the cartoons recently, in the name of freedom of expression. The Egyptian owner of the paper fired the Editor in Chief. The employees of the paper got together and are demanding that he'll reinstate him.

It seems to be a very hot issue as well here on my little blog. Several thousand people more than normal came by here in the last two days. Some of them were Muslims trying to explain their righteous anger. Some of them were folks looking for an opportunity to bash Muslims. Some of them were Danes who're puzzled about the whole thing, and explaining what really happened.

I didn't see the actual cartoons before now. And, sheesh, I'm glad I found them. No wonder the Danish people are puzzled about what all the bruhaha is about. Because one would have to be extraordinarily vigilant or imaginative to find anything offensive about them. Essentially, like you might draw Jesus as a longhaired guy in sandals, you'd probably draw Mohammed as a guy with a beard and a turban. Duh. And most of the cartoonists here took the task in a tongue-in-cheek self-deprecating way. Like, the one above there. The text says "Hmmm, I can't quite seem to recognize him". A sort of comment on the fact that Mohammed rarely is pictured, so the blondehaired Danish guy can't really pick him out. Disrespectful? Why?

The only one of the pictures that even could be construed as offensive would be the one showing a guy with fanatical eyes and a turban in the shape of a bomb. Shouldn't really be a surprising choice to anybody, as a lot of what one hears about Muslims is fanatical people blowing themselves and others up as suicide bombers in the name of their religion. The drawing captures what mood one might imagine such people to have. Is that some kind of condemnation of all Muslims? I don't see it that way.

I suppose that the people who're so upset probably haven't seen any of the cartoons at all. And probably will close their eyes if they see this posting here.

I'm not religious, but I can imagine the point of a rule against the depiction of some religious figure. To avoid idolatry. I.e. that people start worshipping the picture of something or someone, rather than dealing directly with it. Aha. Well, seems like the opposite happened here. People are worshipping the lack of a picture, and rioting against pictures, and worshipping all sorts of interpretations, rather than just listening to what the man actually was saying. Or maybe he just wanted them to listen to God, rather than starting to worship him, which also sounds reasonable enough. But, again, the opposite is what happened.

Also, check out the Mohammed Image Archive. See, of course it isn't the first time that somebody drew a picture of Mohammed. There are lots of pictures, including some by Muslims, including pictures on magazine covers, in books, on paintings, etc. It is just that none of those created any kind of similar uproar.

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3 Feb 2006 @ 05:16 by ashanti : Hmmmmm. Another dimension
Thanks for posting the pics, Ming, it does add some context to all this.

I think there is another dimension underlying all this. This is from speaking to some of my friends who are Muslim, in my country (South Africa) about this. Moderate, decent people. They too, find the cartoons offensive and very hurtful, but it is more so now, because of the global context of the "War on Terror".

Many of my colleagues are too afraid to travel to America, or Britain, or Australia. They are feeling persecuted and hunted by the West. Generally, over here, Europe is considered the more enlightened part of the West, than say America, Britain, or Australia. So when an enlightened country starts publishing cartoons that add to the general feeling among Muslim people of being demonised, hunted, and persecuted, it evokes much more of an outcry than would have happened before the "War on Terror". (Which many Muslims experience as the "War on Islam").

Just a viewpoint from some moderate South African Muslims.

- ashanti  

3 Feb 2006 @ 10:05 by James @ : Mohammed the devil (the Satan)
Mohammed was either sick or the devil(satan) was speeking to him.
Either case, there is no contradiction between those to cases.
Islam originate from the satan(devil.
Please read this book:

Mark A. Gabriel, Ph.D., 2002

and you will see what I mean  

3 Feb 2006 @ 10:52 by Faidros @ : Satan

If there is someone or something called satan im quite convinced he is speaking throug quite a few of those biblebelt preachers in the US to.

If I was satan I would use infiltration in churches, mosks ans synagogs as my main platform. Judging from history and the situation around the world it sure looks like he is doing that allready.

Strange how "fighting satan" reoccures through out history and in different religions as a reason to kill, burn and torture people. All in name of a loving god.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 12:23 by b : Muslims want others to conform to their
religion and their interpretations of it. I am in India. When I want to buy foreign product I go to an international store. Today I went to one to buy sandwich meat and they were having a big sale on tinned products from Denmark.
Unbelievable for me to realize this is a reaction to a cartoon? I stocked up on Danish hams in tins just in case this persists. I do like a ham and cheese sandwich on french bread with lettice and tomato from time to time.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 13:13 by ming : Moderation
Ashanti, thank you for that input. I can sort of understand that. It seems worse when it comes from a corner of the world one otherwise considered somewhat balanced and reasonable.

I need to remember to ask my daughter's friend from school who's a practising Muslim from Palestine next time he comes by. I also only know Muslims who are moderate, decent people.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 15:45 by kawtar @ : l'islam
I have one thing to tell you:"EVERY ONE SHOULD RESPECT THE OTHER'S RELIGION"...I am muslim,and I know the feeling when someone talk badly about the islam,and I'm afraid to go abroad in order to continue my studies there coz there are lot of people who says "islam=terrorisme" so I prefer to stay in my country(morocco)..anyway I have a happy life here between muslim people  

3 Feb 2006 @ 18:25 by rayon : Religion is one thing.
What some people will make of it is quite another. Mohammed was a true prophet in the Christian sense of the tradition. I know a teenager whose family historically were forced to become Muslim - they forgot they were originally Orthodox - this young guy since turning 18, is going against his whole family, he has declared he is converting, reverting back to Chrisianity.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 19:14 by bkodish : Excellent Post, Ming!
You said " would have to be extraordinarily vigilant or imaginative to find anything offensive about them [the Danish cartoons]." I agree.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 20:20 by ari @ : Muslims welcome to study and live in US
I wish people understood that the USA is welcoming to muslim people. We have close to 6 million Muslim people living here. I know many muslim students who are studying here and happy. The media has everyone believe that a war on the streets exist. It's quite the opposite when you turn off the television and stop believing rumors. The issues we speak about are among the minority representing people, right v. left, and people who feel it's important seperate and stir up emotion and hate. I think we can all agree that our governments and religious leaders can lead us in negative directions and we must not let this come between our countries and our goals. As technology continues to make the world a true global economy, many centuries beyond our life time, the world will live in harmony, since eventually peace will prevail. We don't need war and hate to continue. Open government, property rights, market economis, education, and caring for each other are hallmark. There was a time before I lived in Russia post soviet union, twice, that my country USA (US State Dept) had me believing that I shouldn't talk to the Russia people, they might rob me, steal my clothers and money, once they realized I was an American. Well, it was quite the opposite in 1993 & 1994. The Russia people were very kind and warm welcoming, and eventually I discovered on my own that these were people much like myself. Striving to be better educated, raise families safely, spend time with friends and try to make more money to provide a better living standard than our parents and generations before us.

It's very unfortunate that this cartoon issue has stirred up the masses, at least media is loving this story and it's keeping it alive.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 21:22 by IslamIsDying @ : ...
Rofl they ran out of virgins....
To all you danes i'm sorry to say, YOUR IDIOTS, why the hell did you apologize to these Dickheads??? You are free to do or say whatever you want, you shouldn't apoligize for posting funny pics about mohammed( PISS be upon him), in fact some of those pictures reflect the truth about islam, a bullshit religion based on sex and killing founded by a FAKE prophet  

3 Feb 2006 @ 22:50 by B.L. @ : FUCKIN FANATICS
AS a canadian I am peacefull and i accept any culture.But religion is a threat to peace,IT always as been that way,just look at the past and present religion wars.When your religion become the most important aspect of your life and you think that your religion is the only thru one combined with lack of education and mostly lack of a quality of life ,you start to believe that the after life gonna be so much better and you see death as a liberation.Many religion have been succesful making peoples believe that.The fight of the future should be tryng to educate so people abandon their religion because religion is the treat!  

3 Feb 2006 @ 22:56 by ming : Islam
Hey, hey, I didn't post this as a general invitation to bash Muslims. On the contrary. I find these cartoons to be innocent, relaxed, friendly, and certainly not intended as any kind of evil campaign against Islam. They were made as a comment about the state of freedom of speech and religious censorship.

I find the reaction to them totally out of proportion, totally unfounded, and, frankly, insane. But, no, for me that doesn't translate into meaning that Islam is altogether evil, or anything like that.

All religions are pretty crazy if we examine their beliefs literally and rationally. They invite people to live in a fantasy cartoon world. But that apparently gives a lot of people meaning in their lives. And there are more religious people than non-religious people. So, we have to live with the crazyness somehow. But that doesn't mean it should be allowed to rule the world. Allowed to exist, be tolerated, left alone, respected. But no religion can be allowed to set the rules for everybody.

Anyway, I'm leaving all the abusive messages in place in these threads, because, well, they illustrate the problem. In other settings a lot of them would just have gotten the delete button.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:10 by nogs @ : response
So glad to have found those cartoons that have received so much coverage but the general press have been unable to show.
I cant really see what all the fuss is about- sorry.
Islam is respected- but through fear.Consider the life and fate of Mohammed Christianity is seen as weak and a good target to mock safely.Think of the life and fate of Jesus. Atheism is untested - think of the life of Hitler-he would breed people like we breed dogs. I dont understand hinduism or Budhism, but amidst all the violence and threats abounding with Iran seeking a nuclear arsenal to match that of Israel, I do hope there is another way. Remember the violence and loss of life during the partition of India. Did not Gandhi force a peace by fasting? Odd that. If only America focused most of its military might and logistics into say disaster relief eg after the Tsunami and in Pakistan- Americans could stand tall and proud OUTSIDE their own nation  

4 Feb 2006 @ 02:20 by ed brown @ : all of this unrest over a cartoon.....
the muslim world thinks nothing of blowing up innocent babies and women,but let someone draw something about the sacred raghead leader and all hell breaks loose?
i think these people are some of the biggest racists in the world.they think nothing about burning our flag,and trashing our religion(chritianity)saying or doing anything in the world on behalf of moehummer the raghead?i am tired of their trash and all they beleive in,i think i am going to get a group together and burn their little KORAN in front of cnn and let them beam a bunch or georgia rednecks burning and stomping on their book of bullshit all over the cnn sidewalks,let them beam that image all over the world.WE ARE ALL TIRED OF YOUR CRAP!!!!!WE HAVE SEEN ENOUGH.just wish you didnt have all the oil.......  

4 Feb 2006 @ 03:17 by C Strife @ : O_o?
Islam (extremists) is gonna kill HOW many people over this? *Pities Muslims* and is it just me ,or are we on the brink of a major "Holy War?" oh, it's just getting worse thats all...and i bet its gonna get a WHOLE lot worse before we see any sort of end to the situation.

Too me...the cartoons just look like all the other cartoons in newspapers...crap. Crap the likes in which you see on the side of the street. Crap that should be sniffed at then forgoten about as quickly as you walk by, would you clean it up...? Doubtful.

C Strife - Some Guy.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 03:23 by C Strife @ : Indeed...
Blantant ignorance and blind fear...humans ¬_¬  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:06 by John @ : Cartoons
I think the reasons for publishing these pictures was understandable. There is a big divide between our cultures and in Europe many people see the surge in immigration as a real threat to their traditions.

It almost seems that our governments tip toe around these new citizens in fear of upsetting them, so much so that it's political correctness gone mad.

In Britain we enjoy a very diverse culture and whether you're white, black, asian, muslim or jewish you're welcome. We openly accept and encourage other religions, gay rights and freedom of speech all help to make this country one of the most liberal minded in the world.

Whether it's true or not a lot of people here feel that this new element of our society want us to be accepting of them but show little or no tolerance for our traditions.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this of everyone and I'm not even saying it's true but it is the perception.

Certainly the images of Muslims today in London only helped the far right to paint an ugly picture of Muslims who have no loyalty to the country they now reside in, and all it took was a series of cartoons.

Banners included slogans like "democracy go to hell", "remember 9/11" and "kill those who insult Islam" and a Muslim leader shouting "Mohammed said whoever insults the prophets kill him".

No doubt this is the far right of Islam and not reflective of the majority, but this is the common image we see. Lets see more anger in Islam for terrorist rhetoric, lets see an outcry from the Muslim community over this backlash of violence.

The cartoons where meant to show the worries some people have about immigrants flocking to their country and appearing to have no respect for their ways and traditions, so lets discuss this and move on.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:20 by Jenny @ : Hmm
I am personally still in shock how a group which it fully entitled to have its own beliefs and follow its practices without any restrictions from the nations which they inhabit feel that their beliefs extend to all people outside that group, and are far greater than the fundamental rights and freedoms of those nations. I feel bad for all Muslims who disagree with this ridiculous behavior as they are propagating the very images they claim they are not. It truly is a shame. I could never imagine that anyone could react to humor protected by our right to freedom of speech and press in such a way.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:28 by J @ : Rights & Freedoms
If you choose to reside in a country you choose to accept their laws and customs. You expect acceptance and tolerance, then you must do the same. If you have a fundamental issue with the laws/traditions/customs of the country- leave. You don't like freedom of speech, move to Iraq (or any other country which follows your censorship needs). If you accept them, live freely and happily under the flag of that country with tolerance and acceptance from both sides. Have we forgotten what it actually means to be a citizen?  

4 Feb 2006 @ 05:01 by I am gonna kill you @ : Fuck you
Fuck y'all christian
y'all just fucking coward
y'all just fuckin' chicken ass
wait till our future leader come, all of you will die  

4 Feb 2006 @ 05:03 by SHAYKHOON @ : I am Muslim
we muslims do not accept such jokes thats why we asked for a simple apology as it offended us denmark drefused thats what all the thing about ...... thats racisem to mean to mok our relegion.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 05:07 by SHAYKHOON @ : Hey hey!!!
and to who ever named i am gonna kill they are still our responsebility + dont talk like that plz ......last i am guessing ur not muslim u just wanna poison our picture to the world ......because no Muslim ever swears to christians .... simply if they knew thier relegion and what Great Juses told them they wouldent have done such a thing  

4 Feb 2006 @ 06:09 by Satanic @ : A PORTENT OF THINGS TO COME
See How easy it is to start a "holy War". Let the West take care, realise that we are outnumbered by the hordes that may fall upon us. Now is the time to launch a NEW CRUSADE. Let The CROSS of JESUS smite the unbelievers before it is too late. The storm clouds of Islam are gathering. If we do not take decisive action now it will be too late. Purely forecasting population growth, if the trend of the last six years is continued, Muslims will outnumber christians in Britain by 2070. Do you want a bunch of lunatics that threaten death to anyone that that disagrees with them ruling you?  

4 Feb 2006 @ 06:17 by Satanic @ : To SHAYKHOON
No Muslim ever swears to Christians? Come to Bradford, here the muslims petrol bomb christians, particularly ones that have seen the light and converted from Islam!  

4 Feb 2006 @ 06:29 by Mel @ : Mohhamed Cartoons
They already have a fatwa on the world. A little humor is needed but the murderous ways of Islam isn't funny...Really!!  

4 Feb 2006 @ 10:09 by biffo @ : much ado about nothing
apparently some protesters were chanting things like "bomb, bomb, denmark" and "bin ladens back" which is kinda stupid considering they're protesting over cartoons depicting mohammed as a terrorist. also as james said in an earlier reply "I would remind all that there are several examples of equally offensive (if not more so) cartoons paradying Jewish life in many Arabic publications" so its the pot calling the kettle black. maybe muslims in general cant take a joke? either way all the protesting and anti danish sentiment is only going to increase islamaphobia in the west in my opinion  


4 Feb 2006 @ 12:00 by KEVIN MCCARTHY @ : why??????????????/

4 Feb 2006 @ 13:33 by Wilf @ : Why?
What the hell is the world coming to?
I have woken up this morning with no particular agenda for my day and simply picked up my morning paper.
inside i read of incitement to violence, protests on the streets, and full blown hysteria over what? some cartoons?
So i decided that i had to see these horrific "craven images" to see what all the fuss is about.
Well ming thanks for the post, im glad your displaying these as they need to be seen. If these images were not available (as some other websites have done) then this argument would have no informed opinion what so ever.
My background is a Jewish and Christian one (living in England), and was shocked to see the blatantly anti semetic cartoons printed in the daily mail, displaying those printed on a regular basis in arab news papers. When questioned about these, they claim that they are part of the culture, i consider this a strange cultural characteristic.
I haven’t yet decided what to feel about this, i am just posting this to put some of the previous posts in context.
Myself, i feel that this whole issue is primarily incited by the media. Not just European but Islamic as well.

I myself have no prejudice to any race and, i think to do so is to restrict the civil liberties of others and does nothing other than to Unnecessarily piss people off.

I hate that such a meaningless thing can cause such a debacle and worry about the future peace of the earth.

I completely agree with the post saying that life is for living.
Go out, have fun, don’t piss other people off and don’t take yourself too seriously.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 13:42 by Walid Moukarzel @ : The Mohamed Pix
I think that regardless of how much the pictures are disrespectful or hurtful, the people are over reacting!!! threatening and burning flags is just as disrespectful and they have been doing it some time now...

PS: Lebanese here...  

4 Feb 2006 @ 14:25 by joe @ : why
i'm not being racist or anything .but most of the muslims in the world come from asian backgrounds. if u are white and u find out your friend who's white turns into a muslim. what will u say to him. will u still be his friend??? would u call him a terrorist??? or get him beaten up??  

4 Feb 2006 @ 14:28 by Chris @ : Mohammed?
How does anyone know that the pictures are supposed to be Mohammed? They could be anyone in a turban. Do the Catholics riot when there are comics about the Pope or Jesus. There have been all kinds of cartoons, and movies making fun of Christianity and Jesus. Do the Christians freak out and beat innocent people up? Burn countries flags? I don't think they do.

The comics are A. Not even funny
B. Some could be any arab in a turban
Really let's all get a grip here. It's a Freakin' cartoon for God's sake!  

4 Feb 2006 @ 14:29 by N-MaN @ : You are stupid...
If you liked these cartoons (!) you are stupid. When you see these you must ...
Herneyse siz benim dediklerimi çevirin. Bunu yapan da saçma yorumlarla savunan da geri zekalının onde gidenidir. Hiç mi akıl etmez öbür dünyada başına neler geleceğini???  

4 Feb 2006 @ 14:31 by joe @ : why
if your a christian your a christian talk about your religion .if your a muslim talk about your religion.then there wont be humans arguing ,fighting ,suicide for terror.and there will be peace. hope fully. every 1.anyway have u heard what happened in indonesia. a group of 100 street gang. broke throw a danish embassy or something there.because of the danes .there could be trouble  

4 Feb 2006 @ 14:44 by jmarc : Tolerance
"Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil"
--Thomas Mann  

4 Feb 2006 @ 14:55 by Ahmed @ : my comment
i will only say to all danes fuck you and we will destroy u economically by boycotting ur products  

4 Feb 2006 @ 15:14 by vibrani : Spoken like a peaceful Muslim
of course, Ahmed.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 15:16 by vibrani : more peaceful Muslims
Danish Embassy in Syrian capital of Damascus set on fire during protests over cartoons of Prophet Mohammed, Syrian officials say. Cartoons that you can't even tell who is in them.

How long will people pretend this isn't a serious war, like a war with Hitler? These guys are nuts. "What luck for rulers that men do not think." --Adolf Hitler. Those of you who know me, remember in 2000 and prior I warned that soon these extremists will be on your doorstep unless you take action? But you preferred to pretend everything was fine. Ho hum.

When people are raised and live in a society that is not free, how can they understand the consciousness of real freedom? They are demanding that non-Muslims submit to their will, the will of Allah, through blackmail and violence. They want to remove our freedom. Then they have the nerve to say they don't force their beliefs on anyone else? They demand respect for all of this, too. Talk about backwards thinking.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 16:11 by PotShot @ : Ludicrous
These backwoods yokels actually believe it is acceptable to riot, maim, and kill over a drawing? And then they claim to be men of God? If anything they are only confirming the stereotypes of Muslim culture presented by the cartoons.

The most embarrasing part is the cowardly attitude of the US government and US newspapers. Why won't the NY times, the Chicago Tribune, or any other major US newspaperprint these drawings? Have we become so cowed by the violent intolerant behavior of Muslim society that we are actually starting to bend the knee?  

4 Feb 2006 @ 16:12 by vibrani : Sure
you have to be politically correct, you know.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 16:20 by Laila @ : The whole cartoon thing
Im a 'moderate' muslim living in Canada, this is a title i think attached to anyone who isnt a fanatic but whatever. Im just tired of the ignorance:
Islam teaches peace.
Islam does NOT equal a desire to eliminate anyone else for not being a muslim.
There is a culture in which people beleive this, and use islam as an excuse, but this is a CULTURAL beleif, not a religious one.
Im just really tired of people being vocal without knowing what theyre being vocal about. If youre really upset about terrorism, look to the root of it: for the same reason so many people became Nazis (one of them), lack of basic living standards. Thats why the Palestinians have resorted to such measures, not that i condone it in any way, but please dont post anti islamic messages, referring to terrorists, when you dont even know who youre talking about!that is a cultural problem. Youre probably sitting safely at your computer, with a fridge full of food and a roof over your head. Appreciate how lucky you are!
Yes i think the people who blow themselves up are nuts, but i have the advantage of not growing up in an environment of poverty, being told that X and Y are the reason for my situation. Im not supporting any side, i just feel that theres been a viewpoint that has been missed.
To me Islam=Peace.And its wrong for ANYONE to be violent.
The interpretation that the Quran is not open to interpretation, is in itself an interpretation. Just consider another viewopoint before you open your mouth, or post a message somewhere, maybe then the world wouldnt make me and alot of other people want to scream.
Oh yes, those cartoons? I dont care for them, but they dont bother me really. I respect that they are someones opinion, and i enjoy the opportunity for discussion they open...but thats only good when people are willing to listen. Fanaticsm occurs everywhere, in everything, those people only last when equally closed minded people begin to follow. Peace Out!  

4 Feb 2006 @ 16:24 by vibrani : I think
you missed the messages on the other pages of this - particularly those in which I say that extremists have become the voice of Islam. There are very few peaceful Muslims speaking out. They have allowed themselves to be hijacked by NOT speaking out more. We've had many conversations here, and many over the years. And please don't assume you know anybody here, because you don't, and you are categorizing us!  

4 Feb 2006 @ 16:48 by Laila @ : To Vibrani
I didnt assume that everyone on this site was the same, my comment was aimed at the people who leave messages on sites like this that are blatantly one sided, for example the 4 Feb 2006 @ 11:57 by JOAN MEHMET(?) and 3 Feb 2006 @ 22:45 by terrorist n° 1 comments...apologies to anyone who took offence to my comment but it was just that-a comment. I thought it was not aimed at people who are open to discussion but clearly i need to work on communicating better. Again, no categorizing intended, just a plea to get people to think. I didnt think that would be offensive, but sorry if you found it so.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 17:03 by vibrani : Thank you, Laila
apology accepted. That is one of the things that happens on a blog - someone can jump in and see a comment and think that's all there is to it, and not realize there is a lot more going on in other sections, and in other places on this site. This discussion is not something I get into lightly. I do believe in peace, too, and just trying to find more Muslims who can be that voice. I offered a discussion with some Muslims on the words of a peaceful Imam, Sheikh Palazzi on my log, but no one has said one word about him so far! That speaks volumes to me. One fool actually said he is a traitor.

With a doctorate in Islamic sciences from the Institute for Islamic Studies and Research in Naples (by authorization of the former Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia), and ijazzah (authorization to teach) both Koranic exegesis and Islamic law from the prestigious University of al-Azhar as-Sharif in Cairo, Palazzi backs his somewhat surprising positions with citations from the Koran and traditional Muslim sources.

So, what we see is a majority of fruitcake Muslims who have no interest in discussing their religion honestly, knowledgeably, and encourage violence and ignorance.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 17:20 by Laila @ : Again, to Vibrani
I was just on your site, and trying to figure out how to write a response to you there...i cant see a link..Im also new to the whole blog/commenting thing too so maybe i just dont know where to look. Im getting off this site now, ive said what i have to say, but thanks anyways. I dont know why ordinary muslims wont give themselves a voice, there are the extraordinary ones like Irshad Manji, perhaps its because were used to relying on them. Or maybe its that alot of people feel that theres no point in saying the same thing over and over, i dont represent anyone except myself, and i choose to vocalise my message with people, the internet is already full of stuff. I feel like im making more of an impression when im face to face, you never experience the real people online. Have a good one!  

4 Feb 2006 @ 17:22 by vibrani : You, too, Laila
thanks. Maybe you can talk with Shaykhoon hahahaha. My comments were only for members on my log. You can join here, if you like.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 17:30 by JOAN MEHMET @ : WHY

4 Feb 2006 @ 17:37 by vibrani : Ming
a couple of your pages has stuff like the above.

[hm, strange things to post, the full copy of Oedipus, and a FAQ for a video game, but off it goes --Ming]  

4 Feb 2006 @ 17:46 by Joe Winkelmann @ : Ask me if I care!
Cartoons of Mohammed (the madman)
As long as Muslims advocate the eradication of Israel, I don't care if they feel offended!
As long as Muslims kill and torture Christians, I don't care!
As long as Musliims remain intolerant of other religions, I don't care!
As long as Muslims continue to contribute to civilization like they do (NOTHING). I don't care!
As long as Muslims behead their benefactors. I don't care!
As long as Muslims advocate the death of America and try to infiltrate this country for their nefarious deeds, I don't care!
As long as Muslims consider a cartoon of their beloved leader as grossly offensive. I don't care!
If they choke on their oil without which they otherwise contribute nothing to civilization. I don't care.
Should we be attacked by Muslim fanatics and we drop a A-Bomb on Mecca. I won't care in the least. If Israel throws out the Palestinians once and for all. I won't give it a second thought. (Any country which elects a terrorist as their president (Arafat) then elects a terrorist organization to run it does not deserve to be a country or exist!  

4 Feb 2006 @ 17:48 by Confused @ : Religeous symbols
No one seems to have noticed that non muslims probably didn't know that it was
against "the koran,sharriah law,Mo's teachings,or any other religeous commands"
to show a picture,cartoon or other representations of Mo. If you have a belief
that has a "non standard" idea, thats your problem! How can you expect other people to know or "respect" your ideas if they have no knowledge of them!  

4 Feb 2006 @ 17:52 by PotShot @ : Standards of living are Not the cause
In response to Laila's claim that poverty is the root cause of Islamic terrorism, I can only say it is the completely false excuse of an Islamic apologist. I have spent 4 years of my life doing development work in some of the poorest regions of Africa and Latin America, first as a Peace Corps volunteer and now as a coordinator of a private development NGO. There is certainly a correlation between poverty and violence but poverty is a very relative thing and the form and severity that violence takes has much more to do with local culture and history than broad economic factors.

Take Guatemala for example. It is one of the poorest countries in the western hemisphere. 70% of its people live on less than a dollar a day. It has also suffered great violence and social upheaval which the US and other western countries are partially to blame. And yet, Guatemala has never spawned a terrorist movement. The violence that exists in the country is spawned by gangs, or wealthy mafiosos and military types. The country's inhabitants are for the most part welcoming to foreigners and do not blame the US or any other nation for their suffering. I live and work with people who literally have nothing - no food, no water, not even decent clothes and yet they do NOT resort to violence as a solution to their problems.

The current wave of Islamic terrorism is not the result of poverty or imperialism. This is a gross simplification. While poverty may be contributing factors, Islamic terrorism is primarily the result of a SICK culture which tells people to blame the foreign infidel for all their problems. The Koran and its preachers bear responsibility for this culture which is rooted in the teaching of Jihad and the violent acts perpetrated by Mohammed and his followers.

Many of the terrorists who have launched attacks in the U.S. and Europe were educated and relatively wealthy young men. How can anyone honestly believe that suicide bombers and terrorists just want a bowl of cornflakes and a new pair of sneakers?  

4 Feb 2006 @ 17:52 by someone @ : sad about you ming
he you all
i thougt you want to make a better world?
with provocation, hate and fanatism
there will nothing change to be better...  

4 Feb 2006 @ 17:58 by vibrani : It is an untrue claim
about poverty equaling terrorism. People of all faiths have been in poverty, and yet they don't all resort to terrorism. Just look at the record of all the attacks by Muslims against non-Muslims. Buddhist temple and statues destroyed, priests killed. Christians also. Jews also. Compared to the very few isolated incidents of hate groups, Muslims take the prize for wanting to destroy anybody, anything that isn't a Muslim.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 18:26 by jobrown : I don't think
it is the joking per se what angers Muslims in this case. I think it is the INJUSTICE how and WHO can be joked about!!!....ANYBODY here on Planet earth who DARES to make similar jokes about Judaism and especially the sick politial militant movement called Zionism, (which indeed has peiople from "all faiths" in its ranks ) POSING as GENUINE/pias Judaism ( and -of course, nothing could be further from the Truth!) AND YOU CAN END UP IN DETENTION CAMP /PRISON FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE!!!... THIS is the INjustice the Global COmmunity HAS to CORRECT somehow -or in short time there will be no Global Community!....
ALL Pigs are equal, as we all know, eh? ...only some are more!.... do we start to understand that too?????????????  

4 Feb 2006 @ 18:29 by vibrani : You sure
get all of your hatred about the Jews out in public,any chance you get, and you're not locked up, yet. And you want to preach about justice?! hahahaha  

4 Feb 2006 @ 18:38 by James @ : A second opinion
I posted an initial comment this morning and decided to pay a return visit to the site to see how the debate had broadened. It is poignant, revealing and sad to work through the various postings. The ignorance, anger and sheer, excuse me for saying, but in some cases ... hatred, perfectly reflect the way in which this debate is developing around the world. Community hysteria, political point-scoring, teenage chest pounding, media provocation, media retraction and cultural prejudices. Please, enough. These are cartoons, mere representations, folly, of the moment sketches, purpose-free and light-hearted. They will not be hung on the walls of venerable institutions for the curious minds of the children of tomorrow. Perhaps the time has come to open our minds and stop sharpening them. Love all. J.x  

4 Feb 2006 @ 18:54 by Englishman @ : Imaginary Beliefs
All religion is bollocks anyway. The only reason we have a god, or whatever your religion calls him, is so as people think that there is somewhere to go when you die, this so called "better place", and so aren't as frightened of dying. When in reality there is no god, no place to go when you die. When you die that's it, end of story.

Now all these muslims are kicking up a fuss about cartoons of someone who has never existed, it's the muslims in general I laugh at, not the cartoons.

I wish there was some way I could show you all that religion is bollocks, but unfortunately I can't. When the real moment of truth arrives though you'll all see I was right all along.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 18:58 by atila @ : not a matter of depiction
Hi, I have to say that I share the views of the Canadian. That any religion is a threat to peace, that there is a need to educate people in order for them to opt for religionless, peaceful living. As an atheist living in Turkey, caught in the middle of east and west, I feel insecure to take sides. However
I think it is fair to argue that these cartoons were drawn for a giggle. But then, the other side is so different. People in Europe do not understand the fact that mohammeds pictures cannot be shown. Anymore pics may set on fire more embassies of the west in the ME. I think the west is searching its new 'beast', because capitalism has to produce more to survive. It has to sell more weapons, so it needs more wars, be it guerrilla or global wars. The beast cannot be simply islam. The main problem of the people in the middle east is poverty. Some of these countries may be rich but their people aren't. Today Kingdoms and Secular dictators in the ME face the threat of being replaced by Radical political groups, but just as things turned out in Soviet Russia, it won't do any fairer share of income distribution. Religion being its disguise, it will only set up new dictatorships. Therefore, people in the ME need more education, so that they opt for peacefull means of change of power. I think people in the west need to understand that people in the rest of the world live in poverty, and when they revolt,burn up embassies, whatever the reason, they protest everything, they not only protest for depicting mohammed, but also their painful lives. On the western side, I understand that people of the west complain that islamic people usually wear a sullen face, and that is not friendly. I find it boring and repulsive too, but we cannot simply abondon these people, we have to win them over but without dominating them. Nobody in this century will buy into that, everybody knows everthing in todays world.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 19:03 by atila @ : addition to 'not a matter of depiction'
People here can sell any government if they know the other can fill their pockets more.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 19:38 by SoA @ : Some thoughts from Denmark
Well, I just happens to be from Denmark.
In Denmark u can say whatever u want, unless it offenses a minority group/racism.
So u can understand that are alot of opinions on this matter in Denmark alone. But heres how I see it:
A newpaper, thereby the PEOPLE and not the goverment, decides to print their opinions. That they have the right to do. They also have the right to be held responsible for any offensises - taking against the Danish law.
I'm not much into law, but it seems that it is within the "freedom of speech"

The Muslim MUST respect this! Even if the drawings in fact WERE offensive we still have our right to do so! - then again the Muslims have all the right in the world to boycut/riot/attack danish people IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY! (no offens, but thats all I c in teli)
I just can't understand why some riot against Sweden or Norway?! (Denmark's nabos) or why rewards are offered to whom brings the arthour of the drawings to justice, more correcly to MUSLIM JUSTICE!

What even wonders me more; IIRC the Quran says that "Picturing gods may lead to false worship" (or the picture insted of the actual God)

I don't know of any religion that dosen't have something equal, but I kinda get the impression that the Quran in some cases is inded "misintrepetated"... It also states that "No one should be forced to a believe" - yet the concept "Jihad" exist?!?!

Although I find some of the post here rather offensive against muslims, I'm afriad I must take part of that, as I too do not like the Muslim way of living nor thinking. (dont like the german language either) Generaly you seem very conservative, and it is in my belive that "holding on to something that works" - kinda hinders the way for innovation - a concept I'm very fond of. Now, that is just the impression I've gotten. I'm not saying people from the West are ANY better, (hate humanity in general) I know alot of really nice Muslims, and even got some Muslims friends.

It's truely an exciting topic and looking forward to seeing how it evovls.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 19:45 by Ramon Cabezanova @ : Ugly Troubles
After wading through the incendiary posts here, it is sad to see one of the few sane posters (Laila) backing off of this blog immediately, due to the crap being thrown around by unmoderated flamers. This story reminds me, I'm not sure why, of the story of the Dalai Lama who, when asked if he was angry with the Chinese government for the devastation of Tibet, said something to the effect of "They have taken my country from me. Why should I give them my happiness too?" Surrendering to faith requires this sort of humility, this sort of trust that, however dark the ignorances of others may seem, pressing our heads into the same darkness is not the answer. I support any economic and diplomatic response a culture feels necessary to show disapproval, the violent response (beatings, embassy burnings, etc.) are a display of sheer ignorance. On another note, as an American, I found it bizarre to read of any group shouting "Death to Denmark!" Death. For all Danes. Because of cartoons. Absurd. This story is like handing Fox News a propaganda WMD.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 20:01 by john @ : Mohammed
islam is a perverted cult and have the muslim women ever wondered, why they are involed in a religion that tells there husbands if they kill, there reward is virgins. Satan is Mohammed and there religion is without love. It's just a cartoon. How many people have mocked Jesus and did you ever see christans behaving like muslims. I wish the people in the middle east could see there religion for what it is- a cult.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 20:03 by bora @ : you know the subject
My comment is especially for the human-like creature which has written the lines at the end. Here are some infos and some comments:

sexually transmitted diseases is more common in christian areas(africa, eastern europe)
christians burned the library of Alexandria(whic is the greatest in medieval times)
they started number of crusades
they enslaved millions of people (colonial expansion of europe)
they started two of the world wars
they killed jewish people
they killed muslims (in bosnia) and destructing the most beautiful architectures(bridges, mosques...)
they used nuclear sciences to kill mass of humans (in hiroshima and nagazaki)
in every corner, they are the great sellers of weapons (especially in africa)
they fight against civilians in Iraq (where there was no chemical weapons but was a lot of petrol)
USA, still has nuclear missiles and poxvirus
"islam, a bullshit religion based on sex and killing founded by a FAKE prophet"
I think that you are the greatest idiot in the world (excuse me idiots)

If you think that muslims are against civilisations (like another said), it means that the system of education which educated you (including culture, familiy and school) had never said you that what muslim scientifics did formed the origins of the modern science. (you may have to know who invented algebra or who wrote the great medical book CANON)


Lastly, if the freedom of insult is essential, we have the freedom to punish it.

"Rofl they ran out of virgins....
To all you danes i'm sorry to say, YOUR IDIOTS, why the hell did you apologize to these Dickheads??? You are free to do or say whatever you want, you shouldn't apoligize for posting funny pics about mohammed( PISS be upon him), in fact some of those pictures reflect the truth about islam, a bullshit religion based on sex and killing founded by a FAKE prophet "  

4 Feb 2006 @ 20:05 by swanny : ....

4 Feb 2006 @ 20:27 by jobrown : ALL
have their High-end Spiritual Scriptures truly in harmony with Love and Life; one this "this" Insight, the other through this Insight, but BOTH working FOR Unity and Harmony and GOOD WILL towards ALL God's Creatures! And the ALL have the very foundational Insight spelled out loud and clear , which is: " Do Unto Others, as YOu Would Have Them Do Unto You" . This Cosmic Clarion Call has thousand of years been the Foundation for ALL High End Spiritual Teachings!!!
ALL "Religions" have their LOW End reps (fanatics/fundamentlists) among Humanity as well. These Low End Teachings are there to SEPARATE "us" from "the others; the BAD ones"!!!.. you can see the accuracy of this, my statement, just by reading these comments here today! That should talk loads to ALL of us!.....

" There is Healing, when the Radiance of Love replaces all our fears" How does Love replace fears???... By us understanding that pain & sorrow & confusion etc is pain & sorrow, regardless who eperiences the pain & sorrow & confusion etc. Feelings of abandonment, and insecurity are the same in all corners of the World as well as in ANY person's deepest corners of the Heart! We are INDEED ALL MADE IN THE SAME WORKSHOP and we ALL CRY IN THE SAME LANGUAGE -and the feeling of JOY ir released in ANYBODY's Heart by the ONLY COSMIC KEY that unlocks true Joy: TRUE FRREDOM!!!....

Health on all levels of beingness unites ALL Living Things!  

4 Feb 2006 @ 20:58 by Paul @ : Death to all Fanatics! :)
I know I'm jumping in here way too late. But it's quite simple really. Continue publishing the pictures. Better still, have everyone start doing it, everywhere. Let a million mohammed pictures flourish. Diversify! It's about time that we all start sticking to our principles of being free. Free against any sort of censorship. I could care less what all the muslims think. if they don't like the picutre, DON'T FUCKING LOOK AT THEM!!! That's YOUR religion, not mine. They can all go to hell. And if for one moment, you think this is because I am of another faith.. NO. Same goes for any faith, religion, group or person who trys to do the same. As far as I am concerned any angry reaction from any group on any image is INSANITY, and should be treated as such. To respect that, is to respect someone with a gun to my head. Maybe, just maybe, in a life and death situation I will SAY what I have to do to survive, but genuine respect will NEVER COME. I am at a point that the whole muslim world can go kiss my ass. And yes, I deeply dislike Christian fundamentalism too, as well as Bush and American foriegn policy as well. The whole damn thing is insanity and I want no part of it.

Robert Anton Wilson is right, we are living on the planet of the apes!!  

4 Feb 2006 @ 21:09 by Bstar @ : Hypocrisy
A few years ago the Taliban demolished two very ancient statues
of the Buddha.

If the millions of Buddhists around the world had risen up in
protest, do you think the Islamic world would have given a shit?
What about the rest of the west? They would have mutely sat by
or mumbled "they shouldnt have demolished the statues, but the
Buddhists are acting idiotically" -- perhaps even have put the
protests down.

But now, 11 harmless and one somewhat offensive cartoon of Mohammed
and the Moslem community rises in unison against the outrage --
freedom of speech does not give you the right to offend religious
sentiments, they say. Well, where were these vaunted defenders of
religious sentiment when the Buddhas were being smashed. Or do these
sentiments only count if the religion being offended is Islam. Do
you think even *one* of these morons would have risen and so much
as snapped a yap if someone had burnt a Bible? Christians and Jews
are *explicitly* vilified in the Koran (and dont give me BS about
the loving nature of the Koran. The relevant verses are easy to
find on the web, if you care to look and in any any copy of the
koran that you can buy in any bookstore). That causes me great
offense. Whey aren't these defenders of religious sentiment protesting
against it?

I dont agree with offending a large fraction of any population on
purpose. To the extent that the Danes and many of the other newspapers
have published these cartoons expressly for that purpose, they are
plain wrong. But the protestors are, at worst, jokers, and at best,
utter hypocrites. Worse, I dont believe even 1 percent of them
have actually seen the cartoons. The cartoons never appeared in Syria
or Palestine or Pakistan. Yet, the populace there are burning
embassies. In other words they are violently protesting against a
rumoured outrage that they havent really seen or comprehended. What
do you call such jokers? Idiots? Fools? Or sheep?  

4 Feb 2006 @ 21:21 by Xavier @ : sensitive gods and silly stuff

Personally, i find hard to believe in ANY god that will be offended by laughter,or hurt by it.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 21:43 by jobrown : ALL FANATICS are
just that: FANATICS and ALL are equally wrong in their fanatic ways and equally dangerous!
NONE of them is "Better" than the other!.... this is a MAJOR point for the Global Family to learn to understand!
Dogmas have been used too long already as some kind of Sacred Garments to wrap around one's body and then go out and do evil and say "you can't defend yourself coz, look what "Garment" or "Flag" I have around me as my foolproof shield!.... this piece of Dogma/"cloth" both entitles me to my evil towards you, little piece of shit and protects me against your retaliation" .


Want something worthwhile to read while cooling off, from this "debate": " "Warpaint of the Gods" by Nila Sagadevan.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 22:06 by Avenger of Islam @ : ALLAH AKBAR

4 Feb 2006 @ 22:09 by Embassies Burning @ : Burn baby, burn.

4 Feb 2006 @ 22:19 by Elizabeth @ : the Islamic Reformation is ongoing
I am stunned by the amount of condescension, hostility, and utter ignorance I see here. To those with the "oh, get over it" attitude: Many of the people in the Middle East and Asia HAVE NEVER HAD A TRADITION OF FREE SPEECH. Among western nations, even where there is a strong Christian ethos, speech that questions or mocks religious traditions is tolerated because free speech and dialogue are valued, except where they incite others to actively harm people. Islam, however, is a religion that advocates complete submission to God in accordance to the Q'uran; you cannot mock something or even make jokes about it and still be completely submissive. To someone who practices Islam--and I mean REALLY practices it, not just dabbling or being a "Friday Muslim" if you will--questioning or mocking the prophet is an atrociously harmful act. Consider: if you are a Muslim, you MUST believe that God sent the Q'uran to Muhammad, verbatim. If you make fun of Muhammad, you are making fun of someone so incredibly holy that he was chosen of your own Creator to do his most perfect work to date. That is something to take seriously if you are a Muslim, especially if you are an Arab Muslim. In the Middle Eastern tradition, whether we're talking Jewish, Christian, or Muslim, God tends not to have much generosity toward those who flout, question, or mock His will and/or Being: he has a tendency to smite them, and often those around them get smitten as a side effect because they didn't act to stifle the offensive behavior. Thus the low tolerance of blasphemy: if you sit there mocking God (or his prophet), his wrath may not just fall upon you, but also upon your family, friends, neighbors, and even total strangers IF THEY TOLERATE YOUR BEHAVIOR. The backlash against the Danish cartoon is not simply an overreaction among "savages" as a lot of people appear to think: it's an expression of the very real concern that the cartoons are offensive to God himself, and that the consequences of offending God could be, not to be ironic, universally bad.

I know that the concept is tough for those of us living in the western world, where we have either turned to a more personal and spiritual understanding of God as a "best friend" or a benevolent, kindly parent figure or have boxed God into a regimen to be taken out on Sundays and at bedtime and ignored most of the remaining time. But before you start feeling smug about how rational the Christian world is, try to remember your history. Hasn't anyone heard of the Protestant Reformation? There was a time in the Christian world when making even mildly disparaging remarks about the central religious authority could get you burned as a heretic. BURNED ALIVE. There is no more painful way to die. The thousands of people who died violently and horribly during the backlash of the CAtholic Inquisition? Christianity went through the same horribly divisive and deadly throes that Islam is going through right now only a few hundred years ago (and it still isn't completely over, it's just a lot less violent than it was in the middle ages). The big difference is, the Christian world underwent its Reformation in an age when there was no mass media; the Islamic world is not so lucky. We are smack dab in the middle of what appears to be the Islamic Reformation, and yes, it's violent, but don't forget we have seen this before among Christians. Only diff is, the Muslims are doing their Reformation in a mass media environment, which tends to magnify the reactions. Individual sense tends to get swept away by passionate emotional responses, made all the more intense by images shown on television. Anger begets anger; Middle Eastern and Asian Muslims are already fairly angry at the West (and with justification--never mind Iraq, let's talk about decades of exploitation and imperialism on the part of European nations, and we won't even mention the Israel/Palestine conflict...all right, so we WILL mention it), and when they see even mildly offensive images such as the cartoons in question, it turns simmering outrage into boiling. It would behoove those of us who are not Muslims, therefore, to be a bit more sensitive about blasphemy in the Islamic sense, and to have a little bit more compassion toward a religious faith undergoing some fairly severe changes under a glaring spotlight.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 22:24 by vibrani : Be sure to include yourself
Blueboy as an equal fanatic in your little list.

Why do so many religions make God in human's image? Good wants sacrifices, and murder? Wouldn't you think God could handle all of that for Itself, if It really was that kind of a God? Why would it ever need humans to do Its work for It? It created EVERYTHING, afterall. Even lets you be a complete idiot and deny Its existence. It isn't needy or dysfunctional and isn't on an ego trip - humans are. And It isn't a man, either.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 22:32 by Martin @ : French revolution
On the French revolution course at my university one of the questions posed is ‘Has the French revolution ended?’.
The answer to that is categorically YES!

Why? Because on 2 feb 2006 ;-

The managing editor of France Soir, Jacques Lefranc, was fired after the publication (of religious caricatures) by owner Raymond Lakah, an Egyptian magnate, employees said. No official reason was immediately announced.

Raymond Lakah, although not a Muslim is a resident of Egypt on of the most radical of Islamic countries, did so solely on religious grounds; this has in effect put France back to the period before the revolution when religious bigots governed.
Allowing the mindless rantings of a minority world group to dictate to the DEMOCRATIC, FREE west is unacceptable (there Are 3 times more non Muslims than Muslims) the ranting is amounting to a demand that the west embrace Islam.
As they wish to impose there own religious intolerance up on the west they are more like the Nazis than any other group (even the BNP).
Like the Nazis they revere their Leader (as there is no head of Islam you can assume I am talking about Mohammed) like a GOD!
Like the Nazis any insult to there leader is met with death or threats of death.
Like the Nazis they believe that anything said by their leader is true regardless of its historical or scientific inaccuracies.
To demand that the west accept that their god is the only true god is beyond a joke, to site their law and demand its imposition on the west is totally unacceptable Islamic law is not valid under any democratic society and never should be. Any Democratic leader or politician who condemns the freedom of the press and in effect the freedom of all western and indeed all non Muslims has no right to represent the people of his or hers country.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 22:40 by vibrani : Muslims
want to destroy modern life only because they're afraid we will prove their religion to be wrong. Muslim believe that anybody who fights Muslims is an enemy of Islam, and then it is only right that they be killed.

Go to and see the new video of a new French documentary "Suicide Killers" on female suicide bombers. Another way Muslims are destroying women. This is one way the women feel equal to Muslim men! Screwed up! They're actually convincing these women that God has announced that they will be the prettiest virgin in heaven after they die. They only live for this massive illusion, not for life on earth, so they don't give a shit about anything here. All these fake promises of rewards in heaven drive extremists to their terrorist activities and suicide. If they all hate life here on earth, why would they have a problem getting a little help over to the other side so innocent people don't have to die with them? The joke will be on them when they get to the other side, anyway.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 22:48 by Some fucking 16-year old dane @ : who is involved..?
Why does this thing have to be so generalized because of some poll out of 1000 people..? Why can't these islamic people who wants to see blood just don't kill the involved..? Like the publishers or our prime-minister...Well i don't think that our Prime-minister should apologize..? We live in a democracy and every single person is living their own life, he can't apologize because some idiots published the prophet...Is it just me or what..?  

4 Feb 2006 @ 22:49 by martin @ : cartoons
i visited my local shop earlier today the shopkeeper a Muslim was very angry over the cartoons, and was in full support of the demonstrations and threats to the publishers, he openly said he would willing kill for Islam, this is a common problem as all Muslims tend to agree
I intend to get a tee shirt mad with the following caption to ware to uni ::


4 Feb 2006 @ 22:50 by vibrani : hahahaha
that will go over big, Martin.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 22:55 by Andy @ : Mohammed Cartoons
Muslims need to lighten up, their dark complexion with no sense of humour and a permanent chip on the shoulder is a joke.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 22:57 by martin @ : above
I do like Danish bacon and I do believe in freedom of speech and freedom of the press freedom to be myself, freedom from oppression and really want to see what the uni does to those Muslims that attack me as that is assault and as I retired from martial arts undefeated do I really give a fuck?  

4 Feb 2006 @ 23:01 by vibrani : you go, Martin!
Wear that shirt with pride!  

4 Feb 2006 @ 23:10 by James @ : the Islamic Reformation ... a view
I found your post illuminating Elizabeth. I was interested in reading your views about the global village viewing the potential of an Islamic refomation, the subsequent harsh consequences and the tolerance we would all ideally wish to adopt in understanding the motives of some of the more extreme elements in the process. I do feel however that despite all the best intentions in the world, lines are being drawn and sides are being taken. Perhaps this is one of the key elements in the reformation process you discuss. Love all. J.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 23:15 by Islam will win in end @ : ALLAH SHOW THEM THE TRUTH
don't ever believe what you hear or see on your T.V . all are FAKE dirty things about islam.i'm a man that loved or maybe adored America and Europe but guess what???!!!! if u people learned about islam without just talking as donkeys without even understanding anything about that religion, u will know that you are all wrong.who said that Muhammed (peace up on him ) i promise them that they will be just FUCKED in the end , i really promise that.come to our islamic countries and learn islam,don`t see what happenes in your TVs cause they are fake.BE TO ALLAH,HE HAS YOUR BIRTH AND DEATH .  

4 Feb 2006 @ 23:22 by martin @ : islam
There you are typical bigoted Muslim, I know Islam, I worked for 4 years with Mohamed Khan (one of the 7/7 bombers) and the others at Iqra Bookshop in Beeston, Leeds, there were and are the most bigoted racist egotistical mutters I have ever met it wasn’t the War that drove them to bomb but their religion! and how that are brainwashed by the imams at all mosques.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 23:30 by vibrani : More threats
from these so-called peaceful Muslims. Just let Mo try to mess with me! He hasn't got a prayer....he'll take off running with his forked tail between his little legs.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 23:40 by tracy @ : WWMD - What would mohammed do?
What a wonderful opportunity for introspection. I wonder what the prophet would be saying right now were he alive? Being a seeker of truth first of all I don't let anyone else tell me how I am to relate to my creator: god, allah; jhwh, etc, etc.

The fact that Mohammed disapproved of images has more to do with people worshipping images rather than the truth which can only lie within and not be seen. I feal that anyone who reacts to images as being disrespectful fails to understand the message of spirit. The sad thing is those who react against the images only serve to reinforce the view pthers have of them and how they practice/INTERPRET their faith. All religion is an interpretation of the message and 99.99% of all who profess to believe in anything get it WRONG. This is where the heart of the problem lies. It doesn't matter what anyone else believe about your religion. It only matters what you believe in your heart. If you walk the talk of love, this life will only improve3 for you and those you touch.

Blessings to all.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 23:40 by Daniel @ : Perspective
Freedom of the press is something that cannot be questioned, infringed upon, or otherwise censored. Regardless of the content, or the "sensitivity" of the content or message, when we start putting up barriers - like with our civil liberties after the 9/11 attacks, we will never get them back.

I am a Christian - I have seen my religion negatively portrayed by others in print, speeches, and other forms of media. Even with the literal justifications that are indicated in the bible, I have never thought of attacking, kidnapping, or killing other people who have opposed my viewpoint. What right can ANYONE think that they have to take these actions when they are offended at the message?  

4 Feb 2006 @ 23:42 by Rick @ : Some thoughts ...
Some say all religion is the cause of all wrong. I say if you selectively read your to justify intolerance, then you are deviating from your intended destination which is God.

It is beyond me how anyone can want to harm another of any faith (including those of no faith) in the name of God. It is also beyond me how anyone can say such an act is God’s will. This is not God’s will, it is the arrogance of mere humans. The audacity of such statements is astounding.

I actually can imagine Christianity responding similarly to objectionable cartoons about Jesus … up until say the renaissance (14th-15th century) or at the latest perhaps the Enlightenment (18th century). Did God change? No, we Westerners did the changing … culturally, socially, politically, and theologically through the efforts of Luther, Voltaire, Locke, Calvin, Rousseau, Wesley, and others.

Islam has not been through that change yet. It’s going to happen and I’d say we are all witnesses to their transition right now this instant. Damn few established power structures ever willingly allow change. I pray for tolerance, wisdom, guidance, empathy, and real justice that rights the wrongs of the world in ways that END THE CYCLE OF VIOLENCE.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 23:43 by vibrani : These guys don't know
if Mohammad gives a damn about these cartoons. Mo was just a man. Not a god. Just as Jesus was a man, not a god. Same with Buddha. Same with Moses. Where are the goddesses? Ah yes, not there.

If one is confident in their own beliefs, nothing will sway them and it won't matter what anybody else says or thinks about it. As long as they don't force it on anybody else.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 00:12 by بو عبد الله @ : المشكله اعمق بكثير

فهم خاطى كبير بسبب نقص المعلومه هل تعلم بان المدارس فى اوربا تتجاهل وبشكل متعمدتثقيف الشعوب الغربيه باى شى حول الشعوب التى تعيش بجانبهم هل سمعت عن انسان اوربى يتقن العربيه طبعا نادر هل رايت فى اوربا اى علامه كتبت بالعربى طبعا لا....ماذا يعلمونهم..حول جيرانهم سأقول لكم....( لديهم نفط ولكنهم شعوب همجيه متخلفه)..وكأن العرب لم يساهموا باى شى فىتاريخ البشريه المشكله يا اخوانى بان هناك من يصر على ان تكون الورود ذات لون واحد وهذا بالطبع شى غير مقبول نعم هناك اشياءسلبيه كثيره من جانب الشعوب العربيه والمسلمه ولكن من يقود العالم هم الغرب فهل الغرب يقبل بالشعوب على ثقافاتها ام انهم درسوا ليعتقدوا بان اى لون يخالف لونهم.. أقصد هناالثقافه فان هذه الثقافه متخلفه هكذا تعلموا تخيل بان معظم الغربيين لا يعرف اى شى عن العرب والمسلمين والكثير منهم بدأيقرأبعد احداث سبتمبر البشعه لماذالانهم ممنوعين من قبل قادتهم0الفكريين. هذه هى الحقيقه واقع الامر هناك تاريخ قديم سى بين المسلمين(العرب وغيرهم) والشعوب الاوربيه وهناك الكثير من الامور التى يتناقلهاكل طرف حسب تفسيره ولكن ان اردناان نهزم المتطرفين فى كل جانب على الجانب الغربى الحمل الاكبر لان الوسيله تحت يديهم مثال( كيف أستطيع أن أصدق بأن فرنسا التى برلمانهايعتبر احتلاله للجزائر كان عملا انسانيا.. كيف اصدق بان الفكر الانسانى اصبح سائد بالتاكيد لااااا) المشكله فكريه وليست اقتصاديه نعم نحن فى العالم الاسلامى والعربى علينا ان نطور تعليمناوعلى الغرب ان يبداء كذللك  

5 Feb 2006 @ 00:26 by infinitynexus @ : Nothing wrong with religion
Theres actually nothing wrong with religion.. in its own sense, its a decent alternative to the rules of the jungle.. But every religion fails BECAUSE theres people with power who are corrupted in it.. humans are the failure, not the religion  

5 Feb 2006 @ 00:31 by martin @ : TRANSLATION OF ARBIC CRAP
Understood [xaaTY] big because of [nqS] [aalme'lwmh] is learning in to the schools [fY] [aawrbaa] ignores and in shackles [mte'mdtthqyf] the people [aalGrbyh] [baaY] [shY] around the people [aaltY] living in their side is reputation about human [aawrbY] [ytqn] [aale'rbyh] of course rare is banner [fY] [aawrbaa] [aaY] his perceptive wrote [baale'rbY] of course not….What teach them. .[Hwl] their limes punching will say….(for de their blistered and for their his his backward shelter people savage)..[wk'an] Arabic did not contribute [baaY] [shY] [fYtaaryx] [aalbshryh] [aalmshklh] [yaa] [aaxwaanY] in to there from bundles on that formation the roses of self of color one and this in the printing [shY] other than acceptable blessings there [aashyaa'slbyh] many his from side of the people [aale'rbyh] [waalmslmh] and to are from the their scientist the strangenesses so Hill of the crows leads the people on her educations of mother kisses in that them studied to believe in to [aaY] color their color contradicts. Intend [hnaaaalthqaafh] transient this [aalthqaafh] backward his this way imagining know in to most of western not knows [aaY] [shY] about Arabic and conceded and many from them [bd'ayqr'abe'd] renewing September [aalbshe'h] [lmaadhaalaanhm] forbidden before [qaadthm]0[aalfkryyn]. This [hY] [aalHqyqh] happening the matter there old date [sY] between Muslim (Arabic and change them) and the people [aalaawrbyh] your weakness a lot of the matters [aaltY] [ytnaaqlhaakl] edge according to his of interpretation and to are that [aardnaaaan] defeat extreme [fY] all side on the side [aalGrbY] the pregnancy big be soft [aalwsylh] under their hands of idealization (how can to tell the truth in to France [aaltY] [brlmaanhaaye'tbr] his occupation for islands humanitarian works was. How tell the truth that the cerebration [aalaansaanY] became dominant [baaltaakyd] [laaaaaaaaaa]) [aalmshklh] his cerebrations and not economic his yes we [fY] the world [aalaaslaamY] [waale'rbY] on us to develop [te'lymnaawe'lY] the crows that [ybdaa'] [kdhllk]  

5 Feb 2006 @ 00:34 by john @ : RE: Mohammed cartoons
Isn't the primary tenet of islam that there is only one god named allah and mohammed is his last phophet. Isn't that statement alone offensive to anyone who believes otherwise.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 00:36 by vibrani : It's rubbish
to me. Not offensive, particularly. Shows their lack of compassion or respect for anyone not a Muslim, shows lots of ignorance and a bad ego, inferiority complex. Martin, does that actually make sense to anyone? If so, they have no mind (that means intelligence, wisdom and heart).  

5 Feb 2006 @ 00:43 by Ultrecht @ : At your own risk
I find it amazing that we are consistantly having to watch what we say and fear the reprecussion related to our minds. I want to feel strongly about opening all boarders and letting people go and say what they want at will. But proven by some religious communities, letting some people cross boarders, is a mistake in absolute. I am a Christian by upbringing and love the fact that as an American, I can question the validity of my faith and the history of the written word. You just have to pose a question to yourself, no matter what your faith is. Why would God pit two religious factions against each other? What purpose does it serve? We learn two different contradictory lessons from religion. God is caring and compassionate and God is a vengful and retributional being of swift justice and total anhialation. If this is your belief, then it explains tornadoes, hurricanes and flooding in the United States. It explains drought, abject poverty, and civil unrest in the Middle East. If you want to take a lesson from religion, this should be it. All religions are at fault as far as many are concerned. These are much bigger issues, than some idiot with a pencil drawing a picture that offends you. I'll tell you what, everyone that is interested can send me a picture of your mothers and I will draw something really offensive for you. Muslims, Christians, Buddists, Taoists, Shintoists, Moroms, Hindus, Kabalists, or the worshippers of any animal on earth. So, in all respects to everyone who will read this, may God give you and your families peace and prosperity, and grow the f*** up. Oh and I think STOP STOP WE ARE ALL OUT OF VIRGINS is the funniest one.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 00:43 by Rick @ : Lost in translation
Martin, well that certainly lost something in machine translation.

Infinitynexus, its pretty hard to argue with the maxim "Absolute power corrupts absolutely". I don't buy the argument that that is why religion fails us, however, since it is ultimately based on relationship between the individual and God. I don't think it's God that's trying to muck up the relationship either!  

5 Feb 2006 @ 01:05 by martin @ : translation
yup it just shows that the arabic language has changed over the years as the translation program (its costs £1000 and i got it for translating german and italian not for the arabic translation) used the quran as a guide to the language as muslim scholers claim that arabic has not changed since the writtin down of the quran ... bollocks if thats true the translation should be perfect LOL  

5 Feb 2006 @ 01:16 by Rick @ : Another translation attempt
I don't read arabic and it's frustrating not knowing what the author originally intended to convey so I gave a shot using

"They sewed a big because of the decrease of the information does it know that the schools in Europe neglect and by the form of the western Mtamdtthqif of the nations with any grilling around the nations who live in their side did I hear about an European human he masters the arabic a rare printing Wright appeared in Europe any mark wrote by the Arab of course no ....What know them ..Around their neighbours I will say for you ....( they have an oil but they are nations a barbaric is its backward ) ..And as if the Arabs did not contribute with any grilling of the human Fatarikh the problem O a Muslim Brotherhood by that there who insists that they is the roses with a single colour and this definitely an unacceptable grilling yes there the Ishiaslbeh of its many from the nations the Arab and Muslim but who leads the world they are the West then do the West turn by the nations to its cultures or that they studied so that they believe that any colour disagrees with their colour .. I mean Hnalthqafh, this culture its backward so they learned an imagination that most of the Westerners do not know any grilling about the Arabs and the Muslims and many of them the Bdayqrabad of the hideous events of September is a forbidden Lmazalanhm from their leaders 0 intellectual . This is the truth the matter reality is there an old history the European Sa between the Muslims ( the Arabs and others ) the Muslims ( the Arabs and others ) and the nations and there many of the matters that end Ytnaqlhakl according to its interpretation but that Irdnan defeats the extremists in each side on the western side the greatest load because the means is under their hands an example ( how I can believe by that France that the Brlmanhaeatbr of its occupation to Algeria was a human work ..How I believe that the human thought became dominant certainly Laaa ) the problem is intellectual and is not economic yes we in the Islamic world and the Arab ones on us that we develop the West Talimnaoala that it shows"  

5 Feb 2006 @ 01:17 by Support Change In the Middle East @ : Have fun with this one
Why would anyone in thier right mind go to the Middle East to learn Islam, when extremists there kidnap people, threaten and actually behead innocent people. Why would you even get mad about Western countries coming in and trying to establish peace when you can't obtain it on your own. You can get mad at America or any other country as much as you want, because even though some innocent people are dying, it doesn't compare to the millions murdered by a hitleresque HUMAN BEING in Iraq, you are getting ready to hold as a martire. When it comes down to it, I was not for the war in Iraq. If a whole country can't converge on a centralized power based on breaking legs and raping women to save themselves and the future of thier own children, then why should I really give two shits. I was however in favor of a CIA assasination of the so loved dictator. Why would anyone kill Christians when as a whole, they don't represent government or governmental views? They come over as missionaries and bring food and hope for education for all (MEN AND WOMEN)who are both equal in GOD'S EYES. If women were really inferior as a whole, then why aren't men carrying babies for nine months and growing breasts. Women are inferior and no one can really objectively fight this issue, but Men are equally inferior to women. Women have babies, have better control of thier mental facilities, are more objective when it comes to thought, and have a higher tolerance for pain. Men just hit harder, and yell louder. Christians, don't converge and start riots, kidnap people, cut thier heads off in praise of retribution. This was the mode of demonstration during the Crusades, and practiced by both sides. There comes a time when you have to negotiate. We have been there for a long time. If you don't get there soon, then you will just destroy yourself. God is the Only God and JESUS WAS HIS SON. Praise God. By the way, Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the world. What did Moehammed do? I don't know how to spell his name since I can't find it in the Bible. If you read the Koran carefully you will see that his name wasn't actually Mohammed. Her name was Amalya Shamat from Damascus.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 01:35 by Leif @ : ignorance
This is a case of ignorance feeding on itself! Westerners who are upset that muslims are offended by something individuals in Denmark have published have themselves to blame and muslims upset with westerners for something individuals in Denmark published, ditto. Ironically due to all of their own ignorance the whole world is focusing on pictures of someone who should apparently never be seen. Way to go media for bringing that into the light. remind me never to draw a picture of mohammed for any of my muslim friends, the subject never came up... Ignorance just keeps getting more and more dangerous. Who knows maybe someday everybody will be put to death for any and all spiritual beliefs and the animals will clean up the mess ignorance of mankind created.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 01:38 by jobrown : "Islam will win in the end"
this just shows what's wrong with particular fundamentalism -regardless which one it is: Everyone of them sees themselves secretly-and sometimes not so secretly- as the -sole- Winner "in the end"!...CROOKS ALWAYS WORK TOWARDS THAT END!!! Oftentimes they use eachother as accomplises, each having a secret Plan how to get rid of the accomplises once the /Goal/Trophy is achieved/gathered; just like in "A Fish Called Wanda"!!!
How can you say such a thing: "Islam will win in the end". Is your own psychology ( all religions are an expression of psychology )a question of competition -like in Pissing Match- in the name of God?... Learn to heal your aching soul instead and learn to relate to ALL sad feelings be it felt by you or someone else -even women!!!! Learn to feel compassion when seeing someone in distress... -or even just because they exist! The Jesuites, who like to be cruel to little Altar boys, think the same; "we will eventually win". Bush with his twisted "christianity" is sure he'll win "in the end" . On 'n' on it goes!... Geeez guys!
So, let's cut through ALL "religious" "ideological" "sacred" chase and be a little Down to earth REAL: Peniscomplex; that's what you all have!... afraid the guy Nextdoor will have a bigger n better!... MuuuuchoMachoooo!You are all pathetic! 'n you know what guys; these cartoons here are quite funny! Gave me a good chuckle!... -especially pic nr four! Then again, this is NOT the first time I see some GOOD cartoons/charicatures about some repetitious stupidity being held sacred by some MuchoMachotwits!...
In the link here is much more Life-important - IF your frazzled nerves can allow you to any thinking resembling CLEAR thinking!... I know, that IS to ask a LOT ... most men (read older boys) are genuienly not able to think past the ever shrinking treasures in their pants!...

Let's be fair here, there's a lot of crapp in fundamentalism Islam, just like in fundamentalism 'Christianity' and the rest of the fundamentlism religions!

Common decency towards ALL, goes a long way in creating Understanding and more Harmony among ALL people! EVERYBODY: TRY THAT FOR A WEEK and see/feel the difference in your Human interactions! This, BTW, is a "job" that is "never" finished for ANY of us, I don't think.... In other words: It has to become our "Way of life"!


5 Feb 2006 @ 02:31 by jew @ : arabs
I don't understand why we, the advanced westerners don't just bomb to shit
iran' nukelar sites and in general ground them with airforce whenever they show
they scrawny little balls. I am sure that would make them turn to christianity
and civilized ways. You can try to convince a dog that your argument is correct
but unless you stick it's face into kaka it won't stop shitting on your carpet.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 02:32 by Wake Up Europe !!!! @ : Fuck Allah Fuck Allah
I don't know who is the bigger idiots Muslims or Europeans for lettings Muslims in. Send them back to the desert or fire up the stoves!!!! SS  

5 Feb 2006 @ 02:39 by Mani @ : Moderation and tolerance please
I was born a muslim and grew up as a moderate muslim. I left when my secular countery was seized by islamic fundamentalism. I am familiar and fearful of islamic fundumentalism, but I am not fearful of Islam and neither should anyone elsebe. Having lived in europe and the US I have seen the many faces of intolerance, by muslims as well as by non-muslims. I have also seen gnerosity, kindness, tolerance and acceptance by both. The current reaction of the "muslim world" to the cartoons is an unfortunate developement. However, the messages of hate in responce to the reaction, posted on this website by the islam-hating westerners, is also unfortunate. What grabs and disturbs me is the call to violence and anhilation that is heard with increasing ferquency by both sides. It is as if there is a recurring human need for blood and we are looking for excuses to start demanding it and shedding it yet again on a gigantic scale in the 21st century. The current mentality of live or kill the muslims makes me wonder if we don't live a preamble to a 21st century genocide of the muslims, or anyone who is suspected of being one. This is what a lot of moderate muslims fear. We must remeber and watch out for our own individual tendencies towards violence, and look everyday to remove the seeds of violence from our hearts and intolerance. Many advocates of free speech on this website are enraged at the reaction of the muslims to the cartoons. I wished that muslims had a better sense of humor, but not all of them do(Elizabeth eloquently and generously explained the reasons). With an eye on our own hearts let's remeber that we can't demand of people to have a sense of humor, we cann't demand that they be able to laugh at themselves.

I agree that islamic fanaticism is a menace to the globe, as is exploitation of the poorer countries, poverty and ilitracy. For me and my family, the west has been the refuge from the opressions of an islamic government. I believe that the existence of western democracy and tolerance require continuos hard work by responsible, sensible people. The biggest menace to the western democracy might be the knee jerk reactions of some of its people and the nurturing of hate values. Today it is the muslims who must be crushed, tomorrow the chinese, then the gays, then the artists, etc. History has shown that one generation is indeed capable of wiping out centuries of cultural growth and advancement. So please, let's be careful with what we have.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 02:40 by Stefan Karns @ : Mohammed Cartoons
It is only a matter of time before Muslims take over European countries democratic establishments due to the rapidly growing population relative to the "indigent" Europeans. Take the blinders off your eyes and see the apolocyptic danger right before you. Mohammed preached Jihad to enforce the constant struggle against the "infidels". What is the answer? That is for the populace to decide. A truly frightening episode that should shake Europe and the rest of the world to its foundation. God help us all.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 03:09 by jan kramer @ : Mohammed Cartoons
The freedom of expression cannot be stopped because of religious beliefs. Religion is not fact. It is a set of rules, guidelines, whatever you prefer to call it, by which people use to live their lives. The reason people suffer so much in the Middle East and other predominately Islamic Nations is because religion is the ruler, and not the people themselves. The World has not declared war on Islam. Rather it is the Islamic World and their view of "Holy War" that will ultimately lead to their own destruction.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 04:56 by Arkady @ : Freedom
I'd like to draw a parrallel between the publication of cariacatures of Mohamed and the culture from whence they came. I'm not certain why *exactly portraying an image of Mohamed is considered to be so bad, however I will guess by agreeing with Ming and basing it on the idolatory principle.

In certain Aboriginal cultures here in Australia, it is considered disgraceful nay offensive to take a photograph of said person. It is believed that in doing so you will capture a part of that persons spirit, never to return.

However, in the interests of living in a free society, it is my understanding that if such a picture could be offensive to them, they simply look the other way and make a choice not to purchase the paper or article that contains the pictures. Note, we don't put disclaimers up, nor do we censor our press for that reason.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that you will never please everybody all of the time, however in a true democracy you do have the power to demonstrate your feelings, be it by voice, text, or simply by using your feet and exercising your right to walk away.

These pictures are neither offensive or racist, nor are they a targeted or systematic attack on the muslim community. If these pictures offend you, then please tune out (if on TV) or choose not to purchase the paper. You will then have exercised a more powerful democratic freedom than the random rhetoric so easily left.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 05:00 by victoria @ : abolish intolerance
thank you for posting the cartoons. I found them on a French website and couldn't understand the captions. BTW, I just came out from a long retreat -- stayed away from TV, radio and papers. Hmmm, well the world is on fire or so it seems because of cartoons. I trust that one day people will see just how ridiculous this situation is and how pathetic people can get by being so violent about a difference in opinion and ideas.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 06:08 by Everyone get a grip @ : Calm down!
These are cartoons. Laugh if you want. Ignore them if you want. But, for all our sakes, get a grip. Religious intolerance from whatever background (Muslim, Christian, etc.) is truly ridiculous. All the religions teach tolerance but their adherents seem to ignore this aspect of their belief systems. Hey, everyoe, turn the other cheek, and be kind to one another as your prophets have preached to you.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 07:33 by fieldmarshall @ : moroccan
Unbeliavable that one has decided to lock himself in a cage and stay in morocco simply because he,ll be linked with terrorism. One can't go for further studies abroad simply bse he doesn't wanna leave the fellows muslims in morocco. With two legs, you'll set the pace!  

5 Feb 2006 @ 08:24 by yek_irani @ : dahane hamatoono servis mikonam
bad bakhta ba in karetoon na tanha too in donya dahanetoon servis mishe
balke too oon donya ham servis mishin ridam dahane har chi USA va England ie
hamin ja ghasam mikhoram ta oonjaee ke dastam bar miad az irane azizam va har emamo payambari ke ghabool daram defa mikonam ashghala  

5 Feb 2006 @ 09:37 by nemue : Cause for cause sake
You have to question the maturity of people who whip themselves up over these cartoons. This is cause for cause sake. For gods sake GROW UP....  

5 Feb 2006 @ 10:30 by Mohammad Kanaan @ : An opinion about the cartoons

Please read the first part of this article. It sheds some light as to why we Muslims don't feel that those provacative and racist cartoons are a laughing matter.


5 Feb 2006 @ 10:41 by Melanie @ : UK prospective
These demonstrations will end up doing nothing for Islam in England. The British National Party and similar parties will only gain more support in their wish in getting rid of such people. The placards displayed yesterday in London makes you wonder why we have allowed so many such people into this country. Religion has always been the creator of war and nowadays its only the Antheists that seem to be able to live in piece. This reaction to some cartoonist has been well and truely over the top, and will only damage peoples views of Islam even further.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 10:57 by jazzolog : Please Consider This Opinion As Well
Thank you Mohammad for introducing me to Aziz Duwaik and his view~~~

"We respect press freedom, but ridiculing and besmirching our religious symbols is not press freedom. There is a conspicuous malicious intent here, and people's right not to be insulted and offended overrides a Danish newspaper's right to insult the prophet of Islam. Besides, we are living in a global village now, and we should respect each other.

"And we value our religion and our prophet (peace be upon him). Press freedom is a great ideal. However, could one argue that Hitler and the Nazis were practising their freedom prior to the Holocaust? We know the Holocaust started with cartoons like this against Jews..."

Very good point. May I refer you as well, new friend, to a column in Friday's Spiegel? Its author is Ibn Warraq, who was educated in Koran schools in Pakistan and later in England. He currently lives in the United States and writes under a pen name traditionally used by dissidents in Islam. I think his article reveals an important difference in our cultures perhaps, a difference from which we both might learn and benefit. I realize his tone may be offensive, but his idea about "free expression" seems to be the major argument in this discussion~~~

"The cartoons in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten raise the most important question of our times: freedom of expression. Are we in the west going to cave into pressure from societies with a medieval mindset, or are we going to defend our most precious freedom -- freedom of expression, a freedom for which thousands of people sacrificed their lives?

"A democracy cannot survive long without freedom of expression, the freedom to argue, to dissent, even to insult and offend. It is a freedom sorely lacking in the Islamic world, and without it Islam will remain unassailed in its dogmatic, fanatical, medieval fortress; ossified, totalitarian and intolerant. Without this fundamental freedom, Islam will continue to stifle thought, human rights, individuality; originality and truth."


5 Feb 2006 @ 11:11 by Jon @ : Another UK look
I don't think no matter how offensive these cartoons have been that placards displayed in London with death threats is justifyable, especially when over 50 innocwnt people were only murdered last summer in the name of religion. The UK has always prided itself in allowing so many asylum seekers in. But this is becomining to look like a massive mistake. Most white UK people don't give a monkeys about Islam, and are weary of have listen to fanatics preaching hatred. Good point though on the cartoonists of the pre-holocaust era. Though yet again, we have an Iranain president that tells us all that the holocause never happened and that hitler was sent by God. Maybe it is a case that Isalm is no longer a straight forward religion but a radicle one. To the West, it certainly comes across as much more bad then good.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 11:32 by Anders @ : Am I the only one?
I actually like Islam even though I'm christian. It has many of the same ideas and laws as Christianity about treating people with respect, trying to understand instead of hating, and being a positive role-model instead of keeping to yourself.

I just wonder why there's a whole bunch of self-proclaimed muslims out there who doesn't practice it. The smallest thing threatens them, and up comes the Kalashnikovs, the bombs and the promises to kill every man, woman, and child in a country they've never been to.

An Imam from Saudi-Arabia travelling around Europe said in a speech some years ago that these times where the biggest crisis of the Muslim faith ever, because Muslims had become victims of fear and forgotten their values. He also said that it was up to the Muslims in the west to open the dialogue..

..I wonder if that's what they thought they were doing when two of them knocked over my local hot-dog stand here in Copenhagen yesterday and beat the vendor with clubs for selling "unclean" meat?

(A few have mentioned how christian Denmark would react to a cartoon of Jesus with a swastika on him.. Jeez.. been there done that.. You could draw him with a swastika covered dildo up his ### and we would still just laugh it off and go to church smiling.)

(btw Ming the line-up shows, among other things, one of our most right-wing politicians dressed up as Mohammed.. Pretty funny piss on the right wing, if it wasn't because it apparently went completely above a billion Muslims head)  

5 Feb 2006 @ 11:44 by Mohammad Kanaan @ : Unwise
> I don't think no matter how offensive these cartoons have been that placards displayed in London with death threats is justifyable.

Fully agree. They are not only Un-Islamic and pure criminal, they are stupid. They contribute to us Muslims losing another just argument because of stupidity.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 13:00 by STEVE @ : moHAMmed
I'll be tolerant of islam when i see a church built in Mecca. Our tolerance is seen as a weakness by these madmen. Every mosque should be considered a trojan horse  

5 Feb 2006 @ 13:11 by بوعبدالله @ : martin + rick
بالتاكيد الترجمه كانت بها اخطاء كثيره غيرت المعنى,,,,,,,, وهنا تقع المشكله ,كيف نتواصل اذا لااتعلم لغتكم وتتعلمون لغتى,,,, نحن فى العالم الاسلامى نحاول ان نتعلم لغتكم ونرسل ابنائنا ليتعلموا فى جامعاتكم ولكن من جانبكم هناك محاوله لرفض التواصل وهذه حقيقه,,, لكم ثقافتكم التى نحترمها ونقدرها ولكنكم بالتاكيد ترفضون ثقافتنا والشواهد كثيره ,,, هناك الكثير من شعوبكم من يعتقد بأن العرب شعوب لا تستحق الحياه,,, من اوصل الى هولاء هذه الفكره هل ولدواوهى معهم؟ بالتاكيد لا بل اكتسبوها من واقع حياتكم لماذا الاصرار ,, اما انكون مثلكم او تلغوننا ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟ كل ما اريد قوله يجب ان نفهم بأن الورود لها الوان كثيره وكلها جميله؟! نحن فى العالم العربى والسلامى بالتاكيد بحاجه الى تتطوير التعليم واشيا كثيره أخرى,,,,,,,,,, ولكن ولكن ولكن انتم فى الغرب بحاجه الى تغير نظرتكم الى جيرانكم العرب والمسلمين ,,,,,, اتمنى من كل قلبى عندما أزور أوربا أجد ارشادات للطرق أو فى الفنادق أو المستشفيات أوالاسواق مكتوبه فى اللغه العربيه,, هنا ٍأعلم بأنكم على الطريق الصح وهو تقبل الأخر,,,, اتمنى من كل قلبى ان نعود ألى أنسانيتنا جميعا و أن نعلم بأن ما يفرض بالقوه ليس ظمانا للامان بل القوه حسب التاريخ تنتقل بين الشعوب نعم من حقكم ومن حق كل انسان ان يقول ما يريد أو يرسم ما يريد ولكن القضيه اكبر من هذه الرسوم ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, منى لكم كل الحب  

5 Feb 2006 @ 13:24 by terry wasik @ : violence in CARtoons
Hello EARTHLINGS, how are you today ?
Why is it so easy to have peeple react to drawings of other peeple that are so-called LEADERS ,when other peeple are starving and HOMELESS that need MORE HELP and SUPPORT ??!!
if this is a so-called INTELLIGENT SPECIE then why are not peeple of this PLANET HELPING each other FOOD and CLOTHING instead of burning homes and buildings ? is it easier to BUILD bombes and bullets then to ASSEMBLE GROUPES of MALES and / or FEMALES to BUILD a BETTER,SAFER PLANET ? is that not GOODWILL is supposed to be ??
BUTT of course,no one wants to WATCH peeple HELPING peeple...they wood rather watch peeple bombing and killing peeple and manufacturating more coffins...god bless this planet of beautiful creatures that evolution created !!
BUCKLE UP safe / soyez prudent !
merci beaucoup,muchas gracias ,thank you very much Mr.Bill Gates for thee INFORMATION HIGHWAY !! (thee road ahead for FREEDOM of SPEECH of thee SEXES...)
why is there always males carrying bombes and guns and shooting peeple...??
isnt the pope in CARtoons as well ?? and he is roomered to be GAY ( as he walks around carrying a NAKED guy !!)  

5 Feb 2006 @ 14:17 by God @ : ALLAH IS THE DEVIL !
You muslim fools have been seduced by Satan !

Muhammed (piss be upon him) was a devil worshipper, a pedophile who stalked 6yo girls, a rapist and a murderer... he was also encouraging slavery and hatred of other races and religions, especially the Jews.
... and to top it all, this false prophet was also into scatology and possibly beastility.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 14:37 by Habib @ : cartoons
The cartoons are an accurate reflection of the behaviour of muslims and the behaviour they (the cartoons) incited is also fairly typical of the aformentioned group. Muslims in the west must understand that they are not living in islamic states, which was their own decision. If they are not happy with freedom of expression then they should not have chosen to live in countries where freedom of expression is practiced. I am originally Middle Eastern and have some muslim friends who I hold in great regard.. I know that muslims do not respect other religions as much as they profess. I have heard muslims making fun of other religions. I do not take offence except when they then turn around and take offence if others dare to make fun of there religion... which it now appears (Judging from the behaviour of its followers) deserves a great deal of piss taken out of it.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 15:16 by Adrian @ : europeans should be ashamed
I think that all europeans in which countries these cartoons appeared should be ashamed of yourselfs.You don't realise what you have done.You cannot make fun about something that's holy.If the arabs would have made such a cartoon of your God you would have destroyed all of them but you believe that is not the same with arabs.God forgive you sins and you should pray that this ends here, because we don't want to see people dead because of a stupid from Denmark that is responsable for these cartoons.
I'm not an arab, i'm an european but I respect the religious beliefs of others and I thnik you should do that to.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 15:38 by Drew @ : Accountability
I think many of us are overlooking a very simple fact. The Muslim world has allowed there religion to be completely hijacked by terrorists - either through complicity or inaction. The world is slowly beginning to be unable to separate terror from Islam. How many people viewed the whole German population as responsible for the attrocities carried out by the Nazis during WW2? Without a large and obvious attempt by the Germans who did not sympathize with Hitler and his henchmen to directly confront his policies they became, by way of inaction, commplicite with the future attrocities carried out under his regime. So to does the Muslim world then become responsible for the actions carried out in their name when they are not emphatically rebuked by the Muslim world. We are lossing the will in the West to appreciate and respect the Islamic world, for it is becomming very clear they care so little for us. Sure the Muslims of the world are outraged, they have every right to be, but I belive it is time for some reflection on their part. What does it mean to be outraged about the dipictions of Mohammed in European news papers when you were already calling for the blood of the Europeans from the relative safety of Paris, London, Madrid, etc.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 16:07 by Al @ : cartoons
We all have to realise that the reaction to these cartoons is symptom of what is happening in the world today,and that if we are all not very careful,the way the fututer is heading.The question I pose is this:-How do we want to live in the future?Is it under a system of capitalist tolerance to all ways of life whether it is christian,agnostic,atheistic ,muslim or jewish etc and where in the past people who hold or live within this system have fought against those who have sought to persecute those from a different race or belief.Or is it one where the extremes of islamic belief want a return to an interpretation of the prophet that would return their region to the 7th century and all the good living that was to be had at that time,E.g. under the taliban where sikhs were made to wear yellow stars,where in Saudi arabia people are prosecuted for practising their alternative religion.Where in the same country non- beleavers are still not allowed into the holy city of Mecca,and where women are essentailly covered up because the immaturity and jealousy's of the men in certain countries can't abide another man looking at 'their' woman.
Well I know what my choice is,and I know the 'west'is'nt perfect with it's extremes of porn,decadence,debauchery and the like,but hey having a beer,looking at the beautiful people around me and being able to say what I like within the boundaries of consenting and mature adults is the place I want to live in.It's a cartoon man chill out.
Respect is about acceptance of others even with their faults,and with acceptance come's love  

5 Feb 2006 @ 16:09 by aaa zz @ : stop it plzz
i am egyptian and muslim i never heared any muslim talking in a bad way about jesus or any other prophet why cant you just let us leave in peace these cartoons are discusting ,what would you feel if we said things like this about jesus(by the way we cant because he is one of god`s prophets who we love )just stop it and apologise for god sake  

5 Feb 2006 @ 16:37 by Fathead @ : Walks Like a Duck
What we're seeing here is the manifestation of rule by terror. Now they want respect. For what, exactly? Sunni vs Shiite? The Taliban? Saddam Hussein? Iran? Irag? Saudi Arabia? Palestine? Syria? Egypt? I'm sure there are plenty more shining examples of what Islam can do for the rest of the world.

A few cartoons is nothing. Just so long its on the record that any attempt to push the west into Islam is going to be met with severe resistance. By that time the arab states will have effectively alienated the entire population of the west...

Still if there ever was global war and there were only two factions left, the Scientologists and the Mohammedans, the Scientologists would win because of their innate ability to subvert justice, lie and generally stack the deck.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 16:47 by vibrani : What would be better of 2 evils?
You might be right about that, and that doesn't make me feel any better.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 16:49 by billy hell @ : so.
if something offends someone, why is the reaction is violence? how is that even reasonable? are people really that screwed up in their heads? That goes for America's christian facist zombie brigade and all the psycho bomb laced terrorists as well. Violence never solves anything in the long term, it just builds up until all hell breaks loose and nothing is controlable -- like whats happening now.

We've already fucked ourselves in the ass as a World population, no one knows how to get along and they've stopped trying. We just hit and shoot and yell at each other, fuck, we can't even get along in our own damn countries. All this fucking ego bullshit. ALL of you asshole dipshit selfabsorbed fucks need to have some humility and swallow your goddamn pride.

Screw anything that promotes violence. Quasi-Christians and Quasi-Muslims alike. Your religions are not about killing the others. Fucking fake ass people. Wake up and realize your true humanity and not this extremism propaganda.


5 Feb 2006 @ 17:02 by vibrani : A Catholic priest
was murdered over this, in Turkey. Danish Consulate in Lebanon is on fire. Muslims are calling to cut up Danish people. A bomb goes off on a Pakistani bus killing many people. Don't Muslims have anything better to do?

What is very weird is that there were many churches set on fire in
the U.S.

I think it's showing or taking a hell of a lot of restraint on the western world's part not to blow Muslims to kingdom come. Under these circumstances, maybe restraint might not be the best way to go? Muslims feel pretty confident the west won't do much to put an end to their violent behavior and attempts to push everything further along the brink of planetary destruction. Iran, Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Hamas. Maybe the west is just hoping this will go away?!

Muslims - we have seen plenty of nasty depictions of non-Muslims in your own newspapers, plus the constant encouragement to murder non-Muslims, so don't cry about a few silly cartoons in a Danish paper.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 19:27 by Mohammed @ : Just a Comment
Though you hate us,we all love you and your prophet,Jesus,son of God.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 19:53 by Larry @ : Islam Vs. Reason
Islam is a dangerous neurosis. Probably more dangerous than the Christians psychosis of the fourteenth century.

I'm in agreement that that Western world is showing amazing restraint in not launching a full scale attack on the Islamic States, and their "excuses" to kill in the name of their mythology.

Everything in moderation. Since Islam is exactly the opposite of a "moderate" belief system, it is probably the most serious threat to world peace.

Good people use religion in moderation to try and lead a better life and teach good morals. No matter what the religion, it fills a void for some people. When a religion ceases to be completely peaceful and completely tolerant of everyone, regardless of belief or non-belief, it ceases to be a religion, and becomes a fanatical fundamentalists excuse to promote and take part in violence against other human beings.

When beliefs get to this point, it is civilized societies RESPONSIBILITY to every living creature on this earth to stop it dead in it's tracks. To allow it to continue is to turn a blind eye horrific crimes against humanity.

When that "belief" extends beyond helping others and leading a moderate life, it is nothing more than a dangerous psychosis that has no place in civilized society.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 20:06 by peace2live @ : "Love each other as I loved you!"
All you talked about the whole stuff is wrong. The only idea that matters is that: we can leave peacefully in harmony on this earth. it's not usefull the bloodshed to pursued the other one you're right and his wrong.

But, in this issue we have 2 religions and 2 figures:
1. Jesus, the God and the Word of God, Who sacrified Himself for the World.
2. Mohammed, the last biggest Prophet of the World, who was talked with
Gavriil archangel.

Both of them promoted peace, love and tolerance between human beings.
Without it, in this world, there's no peace, no love, no joy of life, no freedom.

The crime against brother is continuing for 7.000 years!

So, respect each other, tolerate each other and love each other.
STOP! BEFORE IS TOO LATE! Let's don't kill brothers, no matter belief, religion, colour, race. (Abel; Bible, Creation book)  

5 Feb 2006 @ 20:08 by vibrani : Mohammed
we're not all into some religion! Jesus isn't my prophet or God. If you love us, show it...tell your people to show it, eh?

Larry, that was well stated.

Seems the Danish newspaper apologized - caved in - and that still doesn't stop the Muslims from rioting.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 20:09 by test @ : track

5 Feb 2006 @ 20:29 by Karlos @ : Well
The riots isn´t about the cartoons anymore. People with power are using it as excuse. Freedom of speech wouldn´t be bad in the arab countries...  

5 Feb 2006 @ 21:09 by Michael @ : Muslim divide
Hi, I just happened accross this blog from a google search. It seems to me that all the problems 'muslims' are presently haveing seem to be linked to the two differing classes of muslims. The peace loving (as I know them) and the fanatic few... Maybe what is needed to restore the good name of muslims is that the peace loving muslims openly reject those that incite violence? or is there a religious reason this is not possible?  

5 Feb 2006 @ 21:23 by Michael @ : see above
I mean... Muslims seem to be seperated into two groups those that say they wish for peace and then the ones you see on TV committing acts of violence. I know that muslims have been 'misstreated' by white man for hundreds of years and generally persecuted by christianity but when is it all going to stop? Someone has to get off their high horse and offer the other party forgiveness. Isnt that what religion is all about? As long as the violent muslims are sheltered within your general religion this can never end. The only way to end this would be for 'peace loving' muslims to cast out and exile (at the very least) any muslim who would incite violence. Christians (the white world) do the same to murderers etc by sending them to jail.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 22:30 by Denmark @ : Islam/Muslims
The whole story about the famous drawings have been debated in Denmark for several months in a civilized manner, when suddenly, after four months, some Muslims residing in Denmark decide that they want some more out of the story, travel to the Middle East to spread lies about Denmark to stir up people.

Apart from boycott of Danish goods, we now have threats of violence from Muslims. Some Muslims seem to have only one answer to any dispute: kill, kill, kill.

When the Prophet is depicted with a bomb, it is to illustrate the daily terror from Muslims killing people in the name of the Prophet, cutting the throat in the name of the Prophet and blasting bombs in the name of the Prophet. In my way of thinking it is these acts, in the name of the Prophet, that are really blasphemous, but apparently Muslims think differently, since they do nothing about it.

Although Muslims always think of themselves as victims, I can inform you that they are not considered so in the West, where most people, when hearing about Islam or Muslims think about terror, and who is to blame?  

5 Feb 2006 @ 23:49 by tony blair @ : my view
Religion is soooooooo last millenium!!!!!  

6 Feb 2006 @ 00:46 by Al @ : response to michael
The middle-east has not been mistreated by the west for hundreds of years unless you go back as far as the crusades,which in that case you will be right.However the period up to the battle of Lepanto in the 16th century saw the peak of muslim power in the world come to an end and the worries of central and eastern europeans of a muslim invasion subside.Luckily the Venetians put an end to that and since then the muslim world has fell into a dark age where it's rulers have subjegated it's people for generally their own gain.Losing it's prominance in all spheres of life from mathamatics and astrology and it's failure to jump into the industrial revolution,the middle-east has tore it's self apart,with a little help from colonial powers fighting over the scraps of the Ottaman empire.Muslims have to find a place for themselves as equals in this modern world and until they cease to stop thinking of themselves as victims they wont achieve this.Oil being found there in the last century has'nt helped but remember the kingdom of saud,egypt,syria and the like are just as much to blame as the west for this rush for the black stuff.It's all about power,whether your Bush,Mubarak or Assad.The people of the region have suffered but not just by the west's hands.They should look to themselves and as I'm sure the majority of muslims realize,the last thing they need is an Islamic caliphate based on a strict interpretation of the Koran.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 00:55 by Al @ : p.s
Danish feta is'nt that great any way so it wont be that big a loss.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 01:12 by dk @ : A good comment from the net
A Shit-Hole Full of Fools
Sometimes I wonder what have those thousands of years and hundreds of civilizations that passed through our region done to us? What have they offered? An accumulation of hatred, problems, disappointments, self-doubt, and wars.
Ever since we were small kids we were taught to brag about our past, the historic richness of our homeland. It was always implied to us that it is something to be proud of, but at times I start thinking that it is merely an act of stupidity.
For people like us, so rooted in their past and surrounded by all this history of conflicts, isn't it harder to start from scratch? At some point in time, that is what a civilization needs, starting from scratch. Putting all the past behind its back and moving on. Ataturk forced the Ottoman's to do so, the French revolution was successful in doing so, the Maoists of China attemted for a decade, and succeeded in seperating the past from their nation's future. The United States of America was built in a whole new continent... regardless of how successful those attempts and movements were, regardless of the names they hold, they made a difference.
We have been living in the shit-hole, this middle-east for centuries, going in circles, stuck to our past, not just stuck, but longing to go back to the old days, fighting our ancestors' battles and losing their wars over and over again.
I am desperate, I feel as if everyone I know is a fool who just does not grasp what we are going through, just endorsing hatred as an ideology and giving it names to avoid the guilt.
If only my people would educate themselves a bit, and try to understand the world, before asking the world to understand their complexes and insecurity.
What is this post all about?
Disappointment and despair.

A Muslim  

6 Feb 2006 @ 01:15 by vibrani : Thanks dk
for sharing your feelings. I think you make some important points.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 01:58 by Michael @ : my point
My point is... if you are trying to resolve difficulties with someone be it a person, nation, or religion you need to show that you are willing to compromise and accept them. If, on the other hand, every time they see you they get slapped for doing something you dont want them too they are unlikely to become your friend.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 02:33 by jock @ : infidel jokes
The majority of people who are strongly supportive of the right to publish these cartoons are I believe not christians but secular citizens of democratic countries which mostly have christian traditions and history. The vast majority of those who are against the right to publish these cartoons are people who would describe themselves as muslims who either live in states which are muslim theocracies, sultanic dictatorships or those struggling for deserved independance viz. Palestine and Iraq. Because there is little or no free media in most of these countries the proletariat (not used as an insult) and it would appear many of the 'educated' elite tend to think of the citizens of Europe as christians and therefore when an insult is made on the islamic faith it is a crusade against muslims. The truth is the crusade is against bigotry, hypocrisy and grovelling genuflection (insult intended)from christians, jews, hindus, seikhs, muslims, scientologists, book burners and reactionary war mongers from rich and poor countries.
You will not find cartoonists and satirists burning, bombing or trying to ban those of you who have your faiths, but those who seek to destroy the right of others to think and express ideas deserve to be lampooned whatever their 'sacred idols' are. Perhaps those who are offended could take up the pen and show us their thoughts without invoking murderous deeds.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 03:28 by A Prophet @ : You tell 'em TB
Following on from Tony Blair's comment, when are we going to grow up and let go of this security blanket called religion?

It's served it's purpose - we all know how to behave as moral, civilised creatures. That many choose not to is a different problem, which I believe is caused largely by our refusal to treat each other as equals.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 05:06 by ashanti : Cartoons banned in South Africa
An update from South Africa: the cartoons have been banned from being published in South African newspapers. Reported on {|here}.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 05:37 by Mohammad Kanaan @ : Forgivness

Mickael Thank you for making sense. Actually the west has not given us Muslims a chance to forget. You mention the cursades. The crusades were 13 different war campaigns over a period of 200 years that were send to our region to do nothing but killing of Non-Christians. After that there was the inspection courts of spain when more than 1 million Muslims massacred just because they were Muslims. Then came the Napoleon Bunapert era who went through the region and have done nothing but killing and exploitation. Few years later, we have seen the western emperialists where all of our countries and much of the world was invaded by the civilized Europeans. The only goal was to steel natural resources. Then comes the creation of Israel and the theft of Arab land. Palestinians were made into refugees and people from more than 90 different countries were brought in to take their place just because they belong to a certain religion. Last but not least, comes the Iraqi invation by the US and Britain. This war was based on a lie and contiues shamelessly without UN authorization and with a lot of popular resistance from the people of Iraq.

Our religion as Muslims teaches us to forgive. Most of us are able to do that but a few of us are not. The hate I have seen coming out of people in this forum and others proves that Christians as well are not able to forget or forgive. May God help us all forgive and love each other.

A Muslim.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 05:37 by Bob Crown @ : Insulting Cartoons
Hi every body!
I read all the comments and I think there is a big mistake here. I was born in a muslim country and I am living there for 28. I have seen many muslim people from all around the world and I have spoken to them and with all my experience I can tell you that "YOU CANT FIND TWO MUSLIMS THAT HAVE THE IDENTICAL INTERPRETATION OF ISLAM" becouse this islam that you can see is just a vision and a picture of islam and to help you to see the real face of islam I tell you the only source of real islam is a book named KOR'AN. and I assure you that you can find nothing about TERRORISM or BOMBING in it!
I hereby accentuate that all that you can see in the name of islam is just a usage of ISLAM in favour of governments and it has no relation with real islam becouse MOHAMMAD that you are fooling him, says: "RELIGION SAYS WHAT WISDOM SAYS AND WISDOM SAYS WHAT RELIGION SAYS (it means listen to your wisdom)" and also he says: "I AM EXTERNAL PROPHET AND YOU HAVE AN INTERNAL PROPHET (WISDOM), LISTEN TO IT!"
Should help you to understand the matter.

6 Feb 2006 @ 06:41 by Non-Muslim Asian @ : Sort of Related Commentary
this commentary has a point:  

6 Feb 2006 @ 07:19 by Anonymous @ : Neo-Cons responsible?
Read a thread at this link:
I copied and pasted the messages by the originator of the thread below:

This was a setup from the beginning. The cue for the violent actions spearheaded by Saudi Arabia (financial backing by powerful families in Saudi Arbia cannot happen without the blessing of the Saudi Royal family), started after Clinton made the comment last week "the drawings were despicable and terrible". He said nothing about the death threats issued by Islamist fundamentalists. He also tried to present Europe as an anti-semitic place where racism is rampant.

It is not a coincidence that Clinton deliberately added fuel to the fire by giving the violent fundamentalists under the cue of Middle Eastern dictatorships legitimacy to their behavior.

Clinton is a neocon and the US and Saudi Arabian governments are very close allies and together control and operate the fantasy al-qaida. They are using the notion of global fundamentalist terror as a tool to secure their interests in the region (read: throw Europe out of the Middle East) and in the world.

Clinton as ex-president has been hired in by the Bush administration to represent the US government and soften its image. Clinton only comments world affairs after careful briefings and couching by the State department and the advisors appointed to him.

The Danish organization, islamisk trossamfund, travelled around in december with 3 fake images with disgusting content claiming they were part of the 12 images in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten.

At the time Clinton made his comments, 4 months had passed since the printing of the 12 drawings in Jyllands-Posten (September 30, 2005). The US State department was by then well informed on these drawings as well as the existence of the three fake images through their Saudi connections.

So when Clinton made his comments "the drawings were despicable and terrible", he was really commenting on the 3 fake images which many in the uninformed masses thought were the 12 drawings in Jyllands-Posten. Clinton knew better and, yet did not make a distinction between the real and fake images, and did not condemn the threats of violence and death threats against Europeans. With all the careful analysis US government gives to every comment it makes, Clinton and the US government KNEW his comments gave legitimacy to the violent campaign against European interests.

Had Bush made these comments, it would have been seen much more clearly as a provocation and an attempt to hurt European interests in the Middle East. Hence, Clinton got that job.

It also seems suspicious that, on February 1, BBC World aired a story showing one of the three fake images, and incorrectly claimed that it had been published in Jyllands-Posten. What happened to checking the sources? It is not like the 12 cartoons were difficult to find on the Internet in one giant jpg picture or separately? It smells of collusion between Blair and Bush.

The Bush administration has seized the opportunity, much like they used 9.11 to push through their radical military and economic agenda. Much of the foundation and planning had already taken place during the Clinton administration.

Yes, I am suggesting they seized on the confusion and misconception caused by the 3 fake images in coordination with their Saudi counterparts.

The attacks on the Danish and Norwegian embassies in Damascus were carried out by the authorities of Syria. The authorities have total control and nothing takes place in Damascus without their blessing, certainly not a demonstration. Syrian authorities are under pressure and will do anything to deflect attention from themselves, both to appease internal and external enemies.

As far as government control, this so-called spontaneous demonstration resembles the one that took place in Beijing 1999, when the mob "spontaneously" stoned the US embassy after U.S. planes mistakenly bombed China's embassy in Yugoslavia.

Some very disturbing people are playing a chess game using the world stage as the chessboard and billions of people as sacrificial pawns.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 07:58 by ef @ : Mohammed Cartoons
Hi, everybody. I'd like to respond to lantip and let him know: most europeans agree that publishing the cartoons (when they were first published) was insensitive and unwise. So for months there was little reaction to the trouble that was brewing; it was seen as a danish affair. But when danish journalists received death threats and muslim ambassadors were recalled to their countries the pattern changed. It's one thing to ask that a paper apologizes for having crossed a line, it's quite another to do this at sword's point, so to speak. Religious satire is legal within our countries. Demanding to punish the journalists meant outlawing them for something, that - however insensitive - was within their legal right to do, and more - it questioned this very right to unhindered expression.

Yes, I know that freedom's never absolute, and each and every country has its own (silent) regulations as to what is considered tolerable or not. And yet, the right itself to express yourself freely is never questioned in our countries, is indeed one of the pillars democracy rests on.

The french interior minister said that, however uncomfortable he felt with the whole situation, he'd prefer an 'excess of caricature to an excess of censure'. I choose to agree.

Reprinting the cartoons throughout europe hasn't had anything to do with your prophet anymore, lantip. It concerns Islam only insofar, as the death threats come from muslims. Really, at this point, what counted was the solidarity shown.

Hope that helps a bit.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 08:07 by Rabbit @ : You're kidding right?
Anonymous - you seriously need some help.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 09:46 by Hanan Taha @ : we are really sorry
This is an Egyptian muslim girl " Hanan".
I know that the situation has become out of control by burning embassies and blowing things up.
We apologize for that and I agree that these action have done nothing but to weaken our - muslims- sitatuion,however, those action have been taken by some people who aren't really presenting all the muslims.
Those people - whom u call terrorists- doing violent actions all around do not nessecarily mean that the other 5 billion muslims are like them.
I feel sorry for what happened for you embassies...really sorry....
maybe the boycott was a better way to express objection , but I didn't think that the situation may turn out to be that ugly.
anyway, afew people in afew muslims countries who has done these actions and the rest are really innocent , including my country,so please don't generalize.
and thanks ( Jylland Posten) for the second apology.I think now that everything has been cleared and everything has to be returned to normal,right?

IslamisDying> Please try to discuss these sensitive issues in a more civilized way even if you can't live with the fact that you are an Arab.You make your point of view really weak  

6 Feb 2006 @ 09:56 by Hanan Taha @ : Note
please remember that the angry actions are based upon a huge background of mistreatment and racism against muslims since 11 september and not for only the cartoons themselves.
so you can say that the cartoons are the conclusion of this series to these angry muslims.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 10:05 by Nana Ansa Konduah @ : It's Enough
I blame the western world. This nonsense religion called islam is getting on our nerves. Free speech is a right and must be expressed without fear. The western world has kept quiet for far too long about these thugs(moslems).
It pains me as an African to be thought of as a threat to the white man, whiles these fools are rather regarded as friends. Time has thought us otherwise.
Enough is enough  

6 Feb 2006 @ 11:58 by TrueChristian @ : religion and violence
Johnathan Swift said it best:"We have enough religion to make us hate one another, but not enough to make us love one another". I don't hate anyone for their beliefs. What I DO hate is when they act on those beliefs in a way that is harmful to others. All religions seem to have, at various times, radical factions whose primary belief is that everyone who won't convert to their point of view must die or be enslaved. Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Jews, ALL have been guilty of this. Cases in point: the Crusades (where anyone who was not of the Roman Catholic church - or even those who were, but were seen as weak or who could be taken advantage of in the name of political maneuvering - were slaughtered); the Spanish Inqisition; Mary Stuart's persecution of Protestant "heretics"; the Thirty Year's War, where Catholics and Protestants burned each other's churches (and the reason why my family tree can't be traced back before the late 17th century - the churches, being the repository of records, were burned); Elizabeth I of England trying to purge her country of "Papists"; Puritans persecuting anyone who wasn't a Puritan (culminating in the Salem "witch trials"); Christian, Muslim, and Jewish "fundamentalists" attacking everyone else in the name of "truth"; the current "jihad" and the Palestinian "infatada"; Atheists attacking (verbally, judicially, and legislatively,if not physically) EVERYONE who expresses a belief in God; Christians, Muslims, and Hindus attacking each other in India...need I go on? I am a Christian. According to my beliefs, those who do not accept Christ as the Son of God and Savior of mankind from sin will eventually be damned for eternity. Not my judgement, but God's. I certainly abhor "Christian" extremists (and I hesitate to sully the word "Christian" applying it to them)advocating violence against non-Christians. It is for God, and God alone, to pass judgement on mankind and to act upon that judgement. "Vengeance is mine, says the Lord: I will repay". Note that it does NOT say "I will send others to do my work for me", in this instance. He is perfectly capable of acting when and how He chooses. At NO point did Christ advocate violence against unbelievers on the part of those who would follow him. In fact, He only performed one violent act Himself, in driving the moneychangers from the temple, for by their actions they were defiling it. The word, "Christian", literally means "Christ-like", and we should all strive to follow His example of kindness towards others, whether we are Christians or not.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 12:03 by scotty : BE FREE

To offend is no more virtuous than being too willing to take offense!!


If you are quick to take offense, then you’ll be under the control of those who you find offensive.

If you are easily angered, then your actions will be dictated by those who anger you.

If you are obsessed by what other people think, then you’ll be imprisoned by their thoughts.

If you yearn for easy answers and quick solutions, you’ll fall prey to people who offer you nothing but promises.

If you find the truth too difficult to bear, you’ll be enslaved to those who tell you what you want to hear.

When you have the courage to think for yourself, the stregnth to accept what is, the commitment and discipline to make a difference, Then you are Free.

You are truly free to live with purpose, joy and fulfillment.

Let your life be defined, not by reactions to what others do, say, or think but rather your own unique vision.

Raise your eyes above the pettiness and follow the path of the greatness that is within you.

~ Athor unknown.


6 Feb 2006 @ 12:40 by atheist @ : mohamed cartoons
Let us stop the hypocrysy.It is all about few in power dangeourously manipulating poor analphabet people,but the worst of it we see no where moderate muslims doing or saying anything except one that is in Paris.
All major wars and conflicts around the world take place mainly due to differences in religion and fanatism.It is time we think seriously in atheism and put religion only as a tradition or folkloric activity we practise when and if we have time.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 13:13 by Pancho VIllla @ : BOLA DE MONTONEROS

6 Feb 2006 @ 13:16 by A Dane @ : Dear Muslims
Dear Muslims

Sorry, sorry
Sorry for giving you shelter and help
Sorry for giving you an education
Sorry for helping you financially
Sorry for allowing you to freely follow your faith in our Christian land
Sorry for sending aid to your countries
Sorry for not demanding blood revenge for the murders on our fellow countrymen, committed by muslims
Sorry for not running around with explosives on our bodies, when we feel offended( by you muslims )
Sorry for us not simply doing like your faith demands
But an excuse for uttering an opinion in our own country within our own laws - that you will never get !
If you do not like my country, please leave.
If you do not like the way our women dress, please leave.
If you do not like our separation of politics and religion, please leave.
If you support violent responses to criticism of Islam, please leave.
If you support terrorism in any way, shape or form, please leave.
If you cannot accept satirical cartoons in our newspapers, please leave.
If you do not support democracy or the freedom of speech, please leave my country.

A Dane  

6 Feb 2006 @ 13:19 by reha @ : who is behind so called islamic terror
1 ) It seems that a lot of people in the western world thinks that all the muslims are terrorists after sep 11th WHICH WAS TOTALLY ORGANIZED by America using their subcontractors just as they did when Saddam invaded Kuwait.( I have seen bidding files for the reconstruction of the buildings to be destroyed in the war which were dated 4 months before the invasion )Can you really believe that just a few people with beards and no brains can rule the whole world and terrorise any part of the world as they wish and can never be captured and continue their actions forever. To better understand who and what is behind it you should analyse who makes the maximum benefit of it. Definetly not muslims !!!!!!
2) Another wrong opinion in the west is that they think all the muslims are with turban and long beards whereas their percentage are so low. Less than 1 % in Turkey where I live. I have also been in Iran and Emirates and have seen really very few people who look like all those pictures and cartoons.
3) A very big portion of the muslims are already very mild and not applying some of those tough rules which are out of date. It is only the fundamentalists who are so intolerant against everything just like fundamentalist jewish and christians. On the other hand look again who makes the most benefit out of these fundamental people who are not given the chance to be educated and left in the prehistoric ages !! ( It is a lot easier to direct and control uneducated people )  

6 Feb 2006 @ 14:31 by vibrani : MUSLIM HYPOCRITES
See what the Muslims put out in their cartoons on a daily basis here {}, it's ok for them to insult non-Muslims but not okay for the Danish cartoons? Why no world outcry against these? Why no apologies from the Musim/Arab world? Include the Pope the hypocrite group. And what is a resolution to this here{}  

6 Feb 2006 @ 15:02 by Al @ : and so on
Stop using the past as an excuse and begin with a new slate.Forget about conspiricies ,there is just hypocrisy and self-interest from all sides,but saying that a movement started in india in 1947 called Diobandism in which the taliban largley originate their ideas from.Anti-western and anti-american in form it has no interest in peace with the 'infidal' but only in the creation of a world muslim caliphate.That is a movement that every sinew in my body would fight against.I feel sorry for moderate muslims at this time it cannot be easy.I would like to live in peace with people from all creeds but do not force me to
live and be influenced by a creed that was made up for a region that was lacking any uniform religion of it's own until mohammed came along and gave his interpretation of the judo-christian faith to his people.
It is intresting to note that when the prophet entered Mecca ,the Kabaah was a shrine to many different religions and idols ,which he immediately tore down.Except one,apparently an image of Mary with jesus.
I dont want to disrespect anyone but I am as a human being entitled to my opinion opinion.Muslims forget about america,look to the future ,america will one day be playin second fiddle to the chinese,and so far I dont like the look of their human rights record.Lastly can I just say that the judo-christian muslim faiths are a crock of shit and are stories to control children who have no mind of their own,and that if I am wrong and go to hell for my blasphemy, and sit before god in judgement, may I have the courage to say that he is an evil God.I have talked to many muslims and christians of strong faith and may I say they are all of their heads living in dreamnd.Sorry if that offends but hey ,I live in a land with free speech,thank God!  

6 Feb 2006 @ 15:12 by Anonymous @ : European companies kicked out of Iraq
Rabbit, no I am not kidding. Who stands to gain from this? Norwegian and Danish companies are having their contracts terminated in Iraq and being kicked out by the government of Iraq. Who do you think is getting these contracts? American companies are handed those contracts.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 15:18 by vibrani : *
Oh well.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 15:21 by no name @ : christianity
all you christians know that your days of christianity are slowly coming to an end. You are extremely afraid of this and are searching for ways out.Your Christian Missionaries all around the world unfortunately didnt work.because our religion is so great and so innocent that only a person without a mind or brain would change it. AS to the cartoons : who are the characters there ? I really didnt understand.....Dear Christians, try and try .Maybe one day -your last day you will be in peace.And lastly all of you know that İslam is the best , only you cant say it because you are afraid.WE LOVE all of you bec. we are human.....................  

6 Feb 2006 @ 15:24 by Mansoor @ : tired muslim
As a muslim, the the holy war some extremists declared on the Western world worries me. I was not offended by the cartoons. Yes, I did see them. I was saddened and then concerned by the response they got. We should have been the "better man" and ignore them. There are much more important things to "fight" about than this. And lets be smart on how we do things. Why use terrorism? Why not use economic sanctions on our oil and force countries like the US to help us with the Palestine issue for instance. No, we don't do that because our leaders care a lot about the money too. Before pointing our fingers to non-muslims lets start by cleaning up house and stop terrorism in name of Islam. I am very angry at my fellow muslims that think the best way to live by Islam is to declare war on the western world when most of us love some of the things the western world has given us. Trust the strength of our faith and stop forcing our beliefs into others. I have seen a number of times cartoons with Jesus, Moses, Buda and other religious figures and could get a laugh from them. I think it's just fair if other people feel the same way about cartoons with our profet. Let's get serious about what really matters. Thank you!  

6 Feb 2006 @ 15:27 by MacG @ : that's just wrong
As a muslim I don't find the cartoons offensive.
But that's the way it is in the muslim world.If you portray Mohammed or print his cartoons or show him in a movie or something like that it is considered offensive no matter what the concept is.
Cartoons are not offensive but knowing this fact and still printing them is offensive and I think very racist.All this is about creating an anti-muslim buzz. By the way I never agreed with violence whether it is declaring war on a country because it has petrol and killing innocent people or it is hijacking planes or killing innocent people. But how else can you respond to an IDIOT like that:

"3 Feb 2006 @ 22:45 by terrorist n° 1 @ : Fuck it
Fuck it !
Just laugh with it ! The cartoons ARE funny;
Hey freaky muslims, can you laugh with this ? You fools !!!! "

that's just wrong.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 15:58 by Al @ : cheers
thanks Mansoor for showing an enlightened and fair mind  

6 Feb 2006 @ 16:40 by aku @ : Islam is the best
i love islam as my religion
and i will die for Islam
if u insult my prophet and i will sacrefice my blood to my religion Islam
i hope u will remember that islam will united and will not stays if our religion
insult by you people
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!REMEMBER THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

6 Feb 2006 @ 16:52 by vibrani : How pathetic

6 Feb 2006 @ 17:09 by wtf @ : WTF?

When are you fools going to realise that it's NOT racist to say something against Muslims?
Muslim (Islam) is a religion, not a race, for Chrissake.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 17:20 by pro-ISRAEL mexican @ : DISEASE
Islam is the cancer of the world.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 18:14 by Just me :-) @ : Islam is evil
Islam is pure evil. All muslims are devil worshippers and should be ignored while on their land and expelled from Europe... hell, they came here of their own free will and far from thanking us for allowing them to stay, they now dare to tell us how to behave in OUR countries ?!... I despise Islam and its backward, racist, sexist, violent and absurd beliefs.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 18:15 by krinkle @ : If the shoe were on the other foot...
Imagine a cartoon depicting Jesus molesting young boys... there would, needless to say, be an uproar. Also, "anti-semitism" is considered an outrage and always causes an uproar, just ask the Primier of Iran; who with his comments about the "holocaust" caused practically every western government to condemn his statements; talk about "freedom of speech!"  

6 Feb 2006 @ 18:25 by Just me :-) @ : ...just for your information
Firstly, nobody printed cartoons of muhammed molesting young boys... but then again he WAS a pedophile as in the koran they say he married a 6 years old girl and "consummated his marriage" (read : statutory rape anywhere in the civilized world) when she was 9

.. also nobody rioted when some artist dipped a cruxifix in urine... some disliked, but nobody acted like apes like moslems do !  

6 Feb 2006 @ 18:50 by Just me :-) @ : Outrageous...
"On the other hand, my message to the West is that the value of freedom of speech should be adapted to Muslim values. "

LOL ?..... why ?... I for one don't care AT ALL about muslims, their prophet and whatever they CHOSE to believe in... why, should we be forced to "adapt" our values for you ?... what's next ?... eating in the street of Paris or London during the ramadan will be considered "insensitive"... wearing modern clothes will be considered "provocative" ?

... the bottom line is : you are FREE TO DO WHATEVER YOU WANT in your countries, BUT IN EUROPE, ACCEPT OUR WAY OF LIFE AND OUR VALUES... OR LEAVE :-)  

6 Feb 2006 @ 18:56 by DEVIL @ : HAHAHA

6 Feb 2006 @ 19:21 by MacG @ : W.C?
Respecting others beliefs is one of the prime principles of western civilisation.
Then how come so many people here are saying it's freedom of speech fuck your religion?
And another important part of western civilisation is not to judge people according to their religion, race, gender etc...
Then how come "you people" are saying fuck your religion go to your country we don't want you here it is freedem of expression? You think that the muslims in France are not French or Muslims in Denmark are all aliens?

is this your understanding of Civilisation? Then "you" really have a pathetic,racist, full of bullshit, hypocrite civilisation (I don't mean the real Western Civilisation I mean YOU)  

6 Feb 2006 @ 19:29 by johnny irish catholic @ : mohammed cartoons
I have read that Arabs were once a most intelligent people. Where have they lost the plot. Threats of violence, and retaliation are of no use today. Using individuals to detonate themselves also seems a bit backward. When you have the atvantage in numbers, shouldn't you be using the numbers to your atvantage. Protest in public, boycott products and governments, write to your congressman or global equivalent. Use your collective heads. If you succeed, the world will be peaceful and it will be yours. As an Irish Catholic living in the United States, I have no problem with that.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 19:32 by Rob X @ : All this over a fucking CARTOON
Extremist anything are CUNTS. Having said that... extremist Jews/Christians/Sikhs/Buddhists/Hindus don't tend to exist.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 20:05 by hawaii @ : Islam needs some house cleaning
I agree with all the posts about moderate moslems not voicing their beliefs. Where are they? It's the Imams in the mosques who are the real villans here. Those who preach to the masses are responsible. Where do you think these radicals get their ideas and instructions from. Most probably don't dream it up themselves. They're following instructions from their "priest". In the western world, if my parish priest said go out and war on can bet he wouldnt be a priest long. He'd be denounced in the media and his superiors would be on his ass in a heartbeat. Islam needs a strong leader to clean house and being their religion back to where it should be...which is truly one of the great religions of the world. If they can't reign in their radical groups, then there will be bloodshed. The world won't tolerate this terrorism bullshit much longer. I'd hate to see another nuke used but it seems conventional warfare isnt working. It will get to that eventually. Let's all pray they clan house quick.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 20:25 by johnny @ : Let's make a deal
Ok, we'll stop printing these devastating cartoons, if you stop cutting peoples heads off, you jackasses.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 20:41 by peace2leave @ : Response to vibrani
i don't agree war whateever the purposes are. Muslims, as well as christians must show tolerance. "My people" isn't my people. "my people", i know, tolerate every religion and culture and forgive everyone. the idea of religion is not just about love, is about an idea that we are not alone on this planet. we don't even possess this earth. the idea of religion is not to possess any material thing but have faith and believe that's "someone up there" who takes care about my life.

Even though in this world we are opressed and killed for an idea, we must keep our faith and to believe that who's raising the sword will perish by the sword.

I know that up there in Mesopotamia there's a big interest (mostly oil is all about), a poor people living in poor countries and lands, but let's have in mind the oppression from communist countries against those who believed there's a God in Heaven and governs our lives! the REALLY CHRISTIANS SUFFERRED from the atheist people and i think that those who go to war over the poor people DON'T HAVE ANY FAITH! They're atheists.

The idea that christians kills for oil or wealth is wrong. As well as the idea the muslim religion is evil is wrong too. The REAL CHRISTIANS AND THE REAL MUSLIM DOESN'T KILL for ANY REASON! In my oppinion, I think that we must defend the religion and our beliefs not by the sword (nor Mahommed, neither Jesus, neither Moses, neither Brahma, or any other big Initiats have thaught that) but with peace. Happy those who are peacemakers 'cause they'll inherit the earth. And by the way, people from all over the world are allways united by pain, callamities, floods, earthquakes and so on. And that is so painfull for human kind!

Wake up everybody! Make this momment not to be too late to reconciliate.

I think that Malraux got the picture: this century or will be religious or will be not. But first of all, better the human kind perish than be drowned in to a world with no God in it, doesn't matter what kind of "colour" is: Christian, Muslim, Buddhism etc. May God enlighten our hearts!  

6 Feb 2006 @ 20:55 by takeiteasy @ : moderation is the biggest virtue
I'm appalled at the comments have read in here, both from muslims and non-muslims... What has this world come to? Fanatic muslims kill 4000 americans in NY because americans support Israel. Americans invade countries for their oil with the excuse of terrorism. All about power and money. Always. And then what? Moderate muslims lose their voice and are seen as terrorist. Moderate americans lose their voices and are seen as greedy heretics. What I truly don't understand is why there weren't all these riots when the pictures of Abu Graib appeared. Isn't God in all of us? Isn't violating a human being the same as violiting God and thus any prophet of God. I have faith in God. Have no faith in religion. Any religion. Religions are just another form of people thinking they are better than other. I am a muslim so I have better family values than you... I am a christian so I have better human values than you... I am a jew so I am one of the chosen ones... what's all this bs??? we are all the same and believe me, when we'll die, we all be in the same place... for if there is a hell, most of these religious will be there for their arrogance...  

6 Feb 2006 @ 21:07 by jazzolog : Thank You All So Much For This Thread
In it
I hear the
collective cry
of the World.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 21:14 by american kid @ : Lighten up
I wouldn't have even seen these cartoons if it weren't for all the publicity. Bullying 101: ignore the bully and don't feed into his game or he will keep picking on you. So who's the genius who thought bombing the embassy and killing and reacting so uncivilized wouldn't put people back into the very category Muslims are trying to escape. After 9/11 were the muslim embassies bombed or marched upon, or attacked by angry mobs of Americans? If you were in the US at that time, you would have seen peace, reflection, disbelief, strengthening family ties, love for your neighbor (no they didn't check his religion first.) (I bought my new American Flag from a Muslim store owner on 9/12, the line went around the block. No one said let's not support his business he may be guilty because he's a Muslim complete with turban) Don't start thinking you know what is write for the other person, he may start thinking what is right for you. (which is exactly the approach to 9/11 that the US has taken) Stop this pity party, and it was pretty funny that they just might run out of virgins up in heaven, although that's pretty hard to believe when you count all the children and young people being killed by suicide bombers -don't you think that the actions of a few are ruining it for the rest of us who enjoy our spirituality in spite of the individuals who are not right by any religion? Tasteless cartoons, suicide bombers, war on terror - it's all the same, a great big lack of love for our fellow man. Love Mohammed, and see the mercy He had even in the worst circumstances for His fellow man. That part of the lesson I think has been lost, and if He were here, would He be solving problems by violence? I challenge anyone to say He would accept each and every suicide terrorist into Paradise after they've died under such violence and destruction. The pain of their sudden and unexpected violence will have reprecussions for centuries to come. And that they think heaven is having sex with virgins has the rest of the world chuckling anyway at them...poor mis guided sex fiends...  

6 Feb 2006 @ 21:36 by Gulsum Ramazanoglu @ : Mohammed cartoons
I didnt find those cartoons 'dirty'...contrarily some were funny and all put the perception of the cartoon owners about sick minded muslims.. naturally they confuse those sick muslims with the prophet and they make a shortcut in their minds as the prophet of Islam opened this path...they are right in finding those sick muslims disgusting! our hearts are rejecting the quality of todays sick muslims... they live their mediaeval age... and that beautiful prophet is looking at them with sadness..

6 Feb 2006 @ 22:04 by MacG @ : Responding American kid
I agree with most of what you said especially about Muhammed and how he would not approve what is happening today.
I think the blame is on the people who provoke muslims by picking on their softsides.And I am mad at people who posted things like "fuck muslims, muslims are apes, etc.." (That doesn't justify burning buildings killing people of course.) But I disagree with you about the bullying part. I think the muslims are so out of control because they have been bullied for so long...

And think about the Bullying 101 code:
When you ignore America it invades your country.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 23:08 by MY NAME? NOT TELLIN' YOU @ : RELIGION SUCKS!

6 Feb 2006 @ 23:25 by hawaii @ : responding to Amgad
In response to the LONG comment from Amgad.... every religion has their icon or holy man. You're saying that we (the rest of the world) has to conform to one religion's requirement...or else nothing will ever get better. Come on, let's be real. I dfon't care how dear he is to you. In a civilized world, if someone talks shit about your child; mother; father or God, you agree to disagree, maybe get angry but you don't kill people. Work within your community (religion) and become part of the world dont ask the work to conform to you.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 00:21 by LB @ : Islam
The controversy about the pictures of Mohammed confirms that the Islamic "extremists" aren't religious at all. As for the rest of them, I'd be TOTALLy ashamed of my religion and start looking elsewhere.... because it looks like Islam isn't working at all. Maybe this is a great time for the world to breathe a sigh of relief because Islam is on is way out? The rest of the world may have to get together and kill it like they did Nazism. Because it is looking more and more everyday like it is just an -ism than a religion. More like Fascism than a religion. Did all our relatives die in WWII just to see these lunatics run around the world doing whatever they want to anyone, in the name of "Allah?" My fingertip is more enlightened than these fools. What about generosity? I thought that was in most religions. These fools are just selfish men and have nothing to do with religion. Just want their own way, wahh, wahh, are like little babies.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 00:23 by Sarah @ : The true neo-nazis...
Islam will die or be destroyed, just like nazism did... it's pretty much the same actually. There will be a major clash of civilizations, good vs. evil all over again, but it will take longer this time because the U.S didn't wake up to the mortal threat after Pearl Habor 9/11

-Mein Kampf The Koran : The thing that holds together an otherwise incomprehensible rant written by a madman (HitlerMuhammed) is hatred against the Jews.

-Sieg Heil Allah Akbar : same kind of meaningless, yet powerful sounding, phrase, shouted by people so brainwashed they are ready to die and kill for two mere words put together.

-Like nazis bullied and then fighted for the Sudetes, Rheinland, Poland, etc... muslims are doing the same for Gaza, Chechnya, Kashmir, Aceh, etc.... Islam like nazism can only justify its existence in a state of war (Jihad)

-Same attitude toward women, merely seen as a way to increase the size of armies... in that sense the veiled women of Islam aren't that different from the blue eyed nazi maidens of Goebbels' propaganda posters

-Same attitude toward gays and disabled people...

... the list coud go on, but nobody likes (or read...) long posts.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 00:36 by macG @ : SARAH
-You haven't read Koran right? i bet you haven't read Mein Kampf either.
If you had reas Koran I would expect you to understand it better than an uneducated suppressed fanatics.
-The difference in Gaza Chechnya Kashnir Aceh is that these belonged to the muslims and they were taken away from them so now they are trying to get back their land.

If you want to make a comparison try USA and Nazi Germany or Bush and Hitler or Nazism and Kapitalizm.

Don't believe everything your TV tells you!  

7 Feb 2006 @ 00:43 by Faidros @ : Let god decide
OK all you religous people - I know how to settle this.

Let the ALL MIGHTY (God, Alah, Jahve, Zeus, Odin or any diety you call yours) settle it at doomsday, when you die or what ever you belive is going to happen in the end!

If the christians are right - the mulims will get a "-Sorry folks, we dont accept any complaints against cartoons. And by the way - you and all other non-christians should follow the signs marked "Hell".

If the muslims is the ones that has shosen the right religion. They get in to paradise and I asume there is something bad avaiting the rest of us.

As a ateist I will loose in any case but at least there would bee some hope for pease wile Im living. However as a ateist I dont realy fear whats going to happen after I die anyway.

My point to all you belivers out there is

-Who are you to belive that you know what a supreme diety wants?

-Who are your preacher, imam, padre, etc to belive that he knows what a suprem diety want?

Is it becourse you have read an old book? A book that CLAIMS to have been written by people that CLAIMS to have had devine revelations? In all logic a sourse cant refer to it self for validation.

Regardles if there is a god or not. Claiming to know the will of a suprem diety must be regarded, not only as megalomanic but also, as HYBRIS (greek ie.~ claming to be equal to the gods).

As a ateist I dont claim any insights in the will of any supreme diety. I wich all you religius people could show the same respect for any potential diety by not acting in such a dietys name just on the basis of what you belive.

And we would live happily ever after.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 00:46 by Sarah @ : ISSlam
"these belonged to the muslims and they were taken away from them so now they are trying to get back their land"
... sure they do, and what about the ethnic Germans of Danzig and Prague... your are proving my point :)

YOU should read the Koran... I admit I can't quote it verbatim, but I have read enough of it to know that your prophet hated the Jews. I did read Mein Kampf in full (and in German too) and it's not even as crazy as the Koran for that matter.

... as for TV, don't believe what you see on Al Jazeera.

Anyway, I guess we won't agree... :)  

7 Feb 2006 @ 00:52 by simen @ : should freedom of speach have bounderies
What is freedom of speach? What is freedom of speach meant to protect? Those are the critical questions one should ask after the mohammed cartoons in the Jylland posten. In the west freedom of speach is close to absolute. We can say about anything to anyone and print about whatever we want about any topic.This right is crutial for a democracy to function. Journalists can print any story they see fit. If individuals ,the government, big business or any organization commits crimes, or abuse his/hers/their power, freedom of speach makes sure it will get out in the open eventually. It functions as societys safety valve. Should it be aloved to debate or critizise all topics even religion? The answer is a big yes. Religion is often used for personal gain and to promote twisted views. History has thought us that lesson again and again. Now how can we have a debate about negative effects of fundamentalism in Islam (or any religion) if the fundamentalists are the ones that set the bounderies of what is and is not to be discussed? And should the views of one religion set limits to what i can say or illustrate with a pen when i have no religion (ateist) or have a different religion? If you answer these questions with a yes, you will not have freedom of speach but government controled cencorship .Going down that road is a slippery sloap.. Freedom of speach insures that all opinions can be heard no matter how insulting or faul. I have many times been offended by opinions and statements uttered by fundamentalists,nazies,criminals and from time to time the fellow man, but i would die for their rigth to offend me. Freedom of speach makes it impossible for the big group to dictate the believes of smaller groups, In short without this right the other basic human rights are impossible. Without freedom of speach there can be no freedom of religion and minorities will suffer as a consequense. Because of terrorist actions ,violence and death treaths by fundamentalist muslims the west has already started to self sencor itself. Journalists and others are so afraid of these fundamentalists that they dont dare say /write/draw what they mean anymore. Simply out of fear of the reactions from parts of the muslim community. That is why this mess started in the first place. In Denmark an auther was making an illustrated history book about mohammed and no illustraters dared ilustrate the book ,because they feared for their lives/safety if they did. As a reaction to this Jylland posten gave 40 cartoonist the objective to make a cartoon of mohammed the way they pictured him in their minds. 12 responded and those are the cartoons that got printed. They wanted to check how far the western self censorship had come in the covering of islam. And considering the reactions by parts of the muslim community around the world ,and the reluctance western media has shown in their coverage of the story by not printing the cartoons and not telling the history behind the cartoons, i can only conclude that Jylland posten did the right thing when they published the article with the mohammed cartoons. They tried to make a point and the media coverage and the outcry from parts of the muslim world has sadly proven them right.....  

7 Feb 2006 @ 01:15 by MacG @ : Islam
I've read it and all I read was about being good and right.Has the same theme with the other religious books.

As for anti-semitizm:Centuries ago probably before there was a word anti-semitizm, the jews were kicked-off from Spain and they were outcasted from whole Europe until one country wellcomed them and they still live together in peace.Guess what country was that. A tip it was a muslim country:)

And I only saw Al-jezzeera on CNN news.

I have never heard even as an excuse for declaring war that the Nazis were trying to get back to their homeland.That's a completely different thing.

And more recently what do you think the Serbians were doing in Serebrenetza to the muslims under the close watch of U.N. That was just ten years ago in the middle of Western Civilisation.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 01:31 by vibrani : Comments?
Would any of you care to comment on my article on this subject?{} (I have read the Koran, the Old and New Testaments, books of all religions.)  

7 Feb 2006 @ 01:38 by Sarah @ : Bad link ?
Vibrani, I get "There was an error in picking up the newslog information"... sorry :/  

7 Feb 2006 @ 01:41 by vibrani : Dang
that's the link Ming gave me. Well, it's on NCN's front splash page as "A Simple Resolution" or you can see it at my web site  

7 Feb 2006 @ 01:42 by vibrani : Try this
link {}  

7 Feb 2006 @ 01:42 by RESPECT. @ : listen up
ok ok guys, everyone commenting saying that muslims are terrorists, everyone commenting saying that danish people are bastards, seriously just shut the hell up. Islam is a religion of peace, and VERY FEW support osama bin laden, saddam, taliban, and all those people. now i know im gonna get a comment saying "I LOVE BIN LADEN" or "BIN LADEN WILL DIE SO WILL MUSLIMS", but i just wanna say that as a muslim myself, if i see saddam on the street id spit in his face. if i see a member of the taliban id spit in his face. the Koran came down to the prophet Mohammad, we believe. If any of you have knowledge, you'd know the VERY FIRST word that was recited was "read". the 1st words of the Koran spoke about reading, reading in the name of God who created you and gave you the ability to read. In Islam, gaining knowledge is one of the best deeds a person, man or woman, can possibly do. If islam really is a terrorist religion, how have we been doing fairly well for about 1600 years? this is our rough spot. the Germans had it. Does that mean the germans are all going to hell? nope. i detest bin laden and everything about him, but i also detest the people who judge too quickly. i am a muslim, i am president of my senior class in high school, i have a 3.9 GPA. i think that i am making my God proud. Muslims do not hate jews, we hate the occupation of the palestinian territories by the isreali government. In Islam, it is fully legal to not only talk to a Jew, but to MARRY one. We consider Moses a prophet, we consider Jesus a prophet.

Its all about respect. how low can u possibly sink, muslims and non-muslims, for dissing an entire religion? there are over 1 BILLION muslims in this world, and over 1.75 christians. A number of people have somehow gotten it into their head that blowing things up is cool. Hell no. Suicide is a sin in Islam, so is killing a life of any human being or living thing. Respect religions, if you wanna diss someone, go ahead, tear a picture of bin laden. Aim at a specific figure. but please, please, dont offend the rest of us that mean well. Same with the Muslims, ive been reading comments saying "fuck christianity", the muslims writing are not respectable muslims. In Islam, it is proper to respect the other's religion. Everyone who means harm, shut the hell up guys and just live ur life. we have better things to be worrying about: Cancer, Poverty, and so on and so forth. Put the effort in. Make PEACE. Al Salamu Aleikum. (for all you non-arabic readers, that means peace be with you. that is how Muslims end their conversations.)

Thank you, no disrespect intended to anyone of any religion.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 01:46 by Agus kurniawan @ : go to hell denmark
prepare yourself to face my God in the end of this world. also I want to know what kind of sentenced waiting for you.iiih sereeeem  

7 Feb 2006 @ 01:48 by MacG @ : Serebrenitza
By protecting Muslims you mean closing the city taking the arms and letting the Serbians in to kill every Muslim in the city so that the majority would be Serbian
and not muslim anymore.This way their allies from the WWII could claim the land.

Nazis wanted to kill every non-aryan that's why they kept lists of peoples families and then gathered them together in the ghettos and then loaded them on trains.If you think that muslims are trying to outnumber the western people they are already outnumbered.
-muslims,chinese,russians,africans...The West is already outnumbered. Whay do you think there's so many billlions of people hating especially American Politics?

USA is the country with the biggest nuclear weapons...Irony is that USA is the only country in the history of mankind to use atomic bomb on innocent civilian people.

On one episode of an American sit-com Drew Carey Show, there were a couple of jokes about Poland.It was a comedy show and the lines were just jokes and werent inserted in the show to specifically hurt Polish people. But when some Polish people complained about it being offensive the show was re-edited immediately. But when it comes to muslims it is suddenly freedom of speech.

All and all is just for some crappy cartoons and people are getting killed for it.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 02:04 by Sarah @ : ---
@MacG : you are bringing in so many things that are out of topic/irrelevant... debating with you is pointless, sorry.

@Vibrani : thank you for pointing me to your article. I found it very interesting and well documented. I'll send/link it to people I know :)  

7 Feb 2006 @ 02:07 by respect @ : to sarah
MacG: i agree with you wholeheartedly. What you say has a point, and what you say has meaning.

keep it up man.

Sarah: no disrespect inteded, but im just trying to open my mind as much as i possibly could. maybe we all should do the same. again, no disrespect.

peace. strive for it.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 02:14 by MacG @ : Vibrani's article
Thanks for posting.
There's a lot of wrong information in your article about islam.
But the most important one is as stated above by "RESPECT"
In islam it is vitally important to believe in Jesus, Moses and other prophets.
You can not, believe in Mohammed and not believe in Jesus or Moses.
So there is no best prophet. or worse prophets.
All prophets are messengers of god. The same goes for Jesus he is not god or his son he is a prophet like Mohammed.

So the same respect that muslims are demanding for Mohammed they have to show to Jesus.That's what Islam says.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 02:18 by vibrani : Sarah & MacG
thank you very much. If you think my information about Islam is incorrect, I'd like to know your sources. I am sure mine are correct. The important matter is respect and acceptance that there are many faiths on this planet, and one is not more important or special over another.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 02:23 by MacG @ : -
@Sarah my point was that these events are not completely about publishing cartoons. That's why I talked about so many topics. I guess I failed to make that point.

West sees East as evil and East sees West as evil. And they both have points in their arguments. The fact that you see one side as good the other is evil is wrong.

P.S If you flipped your evil and good sides I could bring a lot of arguments about how wrong you still are...None of the sides are good or evil.
It's alright if you don't want to debate over it.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 02:30 by vibrani : Polarities
is a huge part of the problem. Why do people need to be polarized?  

7 Feb 2006 @ 02:34 by MacG @ : vibrani
The source is Koran.It tells about other prophets lives in Koran.
So you have to believe in them.It is stressed that Mohammed is just a messenger and a creature of god.Nothing more.

Hadis (hadith) is Mohammed's words and they are not like Koran.There are so many
books on Hadiths and since they have been written by people who lived centuries after Mohammed all of them are not considered as let's say "original" The general rule to check about a Hadith is to look in the Koran and if Koran backs it up then it is clean.(that is of course very open to subjective interpretations)  

7 Feb 2006 @ 02:38 by vibrani : Yes I know
I've read the Koran, and yet Jews and Christians and Buddhists are murdered in Allah's name. I read what it says about Jews in the Koran, and how to treat what Muslims consider to be infidels. Tell me that's not true and you're in denial. I'd quote the exact text but the book is now stored away in a closet, not easy to get to at the moment.

All religions have punished and killed in the name of their God. I say, enough.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 02:45 by respect @ : to vibrani
i agree with MacG, i just read ur article, and really, we view Jesus as a prophet just as Mohammad was, we view Moses the same way, Abraham the same way, Adam and Eve the same way, Noah the same way. In Islam, we treat women with utmost respect, it is said that a male, as he walks next to a women, should bow his head in honor, and also to never, EVER, even think of lust. This, of course, goes against the terrorist groups who dont believe so. But whos the better source, Hamas or the Koran? In the Koran there is a whole chapter called "Women" (Nisa'). Dont believe me, read it. It outlines the fact that women deserve respect as much as the man.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 02:46 by vibrani : Oh please
no one believes that about how women are respected in Muslim nations. Get real. If women were respected, they'd have equal rights, not treated as property. You do NOT want to start arguing with me on this topic, I assure you. Let it go.

Now, where is all that respect and how is it shown to the non-Muslim world, too?  

7 Feb 2006 @ 02:48 by respect @ : vibrani
in the name of Allah? i consider the people who kill in God's name insignifican peices of crap, coz they dont know what their talking about! you need to understand, MUSLIMS DO NOT KILL IN THE NAME OF ALLAH. terrorists do. people with mis-interpreted messages do. not muslims. no way.

and Jews in the Koran are "people of the book" and of all religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam should be respected. We believe all books came and were inspired from God.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 02:49 by vibrani : Respect
the terrorists are Muslims, maybe not the same kind of Muslim as you are, but Muslims. That is exactly what I've said for years - it is interpretation, and that the extremists have hijacked Islam, and Muslims everywhere should be doing something about that. Instead, these extremists are running the show for you.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 02:50 by Sarah @ : MacG
Frankly, I fail to see any 'good' in Islam or in Nazism... and I reinterate that these two ideologies are for me very similar are equally twisted and criminal.
Note that I say nothing about Germans or Arabs... I do not judge people on their ethnicity but on what they believe in and on the choices they make, which is the only fair way... and it's not about East vs West at all.
... and you have to be at least two to have polarities, so being tolerant toward people who aren't is not only stupid, it's criminal... someone above quoted Thomas Mann "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil" and I fully agree with that.

... but as I don't want to spend the whole night here, I'll gracefully let you have the last word :)

(I have a dynamic IP btw, please don't start about me being someone else, etc... :) )  

7 Feb 2006 @ 02:50 by respect @ : vibrani
People from different races are equal as well. how come africans were slaves? not in all countries are women treated like that. Black and White people did not have equal rights. are they equal? definitely. It is governments, it is totalaristic regimes, it is dictators who take women's rights. Not the religion. Big difference.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 02:53 by respect @ : i agree
i agree with you vibrani, our religion is being talked by terrorists. No peaceful muslims such as i or the billion around the world has stood up. Trust me, id give up anything to see the next "martin luther king jr" figure to come up and stand up for whats right. and that is peace and equality.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 02:53 by vibrani : I don't agree
it is religion, culture and sometimes governments - but those reflect beliefs. If you want to know about slavery, you have to go way back in time to understand why that began, starting with the Anunnaki.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 02:54 by MacG @ : vibrani
People are also murdered in petrols name or in patriotisms name in the world.
you are talking about1400 years ago when there weren't even a western civilisation if you go back in the history you'll see worse things done by Christianity.
I am a muslim I live in a muslim country I have christian friends & family members, infidel friends and family members and everybody has two arms two legs and a head. Nothing is chopped off or amputated. That sounds like an urban legend/stereotypical misconception of Islam in the WEST.
I have never been in a situation as to whether check Koran what it says I should do to a Jew. I have Jew friends too by the way.
But I tell you straight If Koran says "If you see a jew kill him" Then I am in denial and I am not a Muslim.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 02:55 by vibrani : Okay, so
what prevents the peaceful, or moderate Muslims, from having a stronger, louder voice? Fear of death? I posted articles about Sheikh Palazzi, and do you know what? Muslims here said he was a liar! So, there seems to be few people willing to allow for peace.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 02:56 by vibrani : Laila tov, Sarah
todah rabah. Thanks, Respect.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 03:03 by MacG @ : about slavery
I know that religion was used actively to justify slavery.
Especiallly the biblical story of Noah and Ham.

briefly Noah got drunk Ham saw him naked and when Noah woke up he put a curse on Canaan (Hams son)

Now ham was said to be dark skinned(not Canaan) So it was interpreted as Canaan had black roots and was cursed so black people are not in the same level with the Whites. Let's enslave them.

Now that's not bible's fault or Christianitys fault. It's the people who twisted it. Same with fundamentalist muslims today.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 03:13 by Anonymous @ : No double standard,Satire is free speech
Mac G: Your comment about Drew Carey Show dropping jokes and american political correctness, does not apply to Europe, and Britain were you still can make satirical jokes, freely, about anyone including royal family (Remember Spitting Image making fun of Reagan and Royalty? and Allo Allo making fun of french?

Don't even try to say there is a double standard because there isn't. In arab countries christians and jews and converts from muslim faith are persecuted:

The danish cartoons are not the horrible fake ones that were circulating in and inciting ignorant people along with fundamentalists.
The cartoons were innocent enough: here is all 12 of them with explanations:

1. The Islamic star and crescent partially symbolizing the face of Muhammad; his right eye is the star, the crescent surrounds his beard and face.

2. Muhammad with a bomb in his turban, with a lit fuse and the Islamic creed written on the bomb. This drawing is considered the most controversial of the twelve.

3. Muhammad standing in a gentle pose with a halo in the shape of a crescent moon. The middle part of the crescent is obscured, revealing only the edges which resemble horns.

4. An abstract drawing of crescent moons and Stars of David, and a poem on oppression of women "Profet! Med kuk og knald i låget som holder kvinder under åget!". In English the poem could be read as: "Prophet you crazy bloke! Keeping women under yoke"

5. Muhammad as a simple wanderer, in the desert, at sunset. There is a donkey in the background.

6. A nervous caricaturist, shakingly drawing Muhammad while looking over his shoulder.

7. Two angry Muslims charge forward with sabres and bombs, while Muhammad addresses them with: "Rolig, venner, når alt kommer til alt er det jo bare en tegning lavet af en vantro sønderjyde" (loosely, "Relax guys, it's just a drawing made by some infidel South Jutlander". South Jutland as reference would for a dane connote the feeling of something like the middle of nowhere).

8. An Arab-looking boy in front of a blackboard, pointing to the Farsi chalkings, which translate into "The editorial team of Jyllands-Posten is a bunch of reactionary provocateurs". The boy is labelled "Mohammed, Valby school, 7.A", implying that this is a second-generation immigrant to Denmark rather than the founder of Islam. On his shirt is written "Fremtiden" (the future).

9. Another drawing shows Muhammad prepared for fight with a short sabre in one hand and a black bar censoring his eyes. He is flanked by two women in niqaabs, having only their wide open eyes visible. The subtle joke would be that if subtracting what is visible of the women with what is visible of Mohammed - nothing would be left.

10. Muhammad standing on a cloud, greeting dead suicide bombers with "Stop Stop vi er løbet tør for Jomfruer!" ("Stop, stop, we have run out of virgins!"), an allusion to the promised reward to martyrs.

11. Another shows journalist Kåre Bluitgen, wearing a turban with the proverbial orange dropping into it, with the inscription "Publicity stunt". In his hand is a child's stick drawing of Muhammad. The proverb "an orange in the turban" is a Danish expression meaning "a stroke of luck", here the added publicity for the book.

12. And in the centre:

A police line-up of seven people wearing turbans, with the witness saying: "Hm... jeg kan ikke lige genkende ham" ("Hm... I can't really recognise him"). Not all people in the line-up are immediately identifiable. They are: (1) A generic Hippie, (2) politician Pia Kjærsgaard, (3) possibly Jesus, (4) possibly Buddha, (5) possibly Muhammad, (6) a generic Indian Guru, and (7) journalist Kåre Bluitgen, carrying a sign saying: "Kåres PR, ring og få et tilbud" ("Kåre's public relations, call and get an offer")  

7 Feb 2006 @ 03:15 by MacG @ : good night
One last thing before I go to sleep:)
Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia in 1964 said:
Noah saw fit to discriminate against Ham's descendents.

He was talking against civil rights act of 1964
So it wasn't that long ago.

Thanks and good night or day.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 03:42 by vibrani : MacG
I'm talking about way further back than the story of Noah and Ham. When the Anunnaki used the Lulus as slaves.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 03:48 by vibrani : Anon
thanks for the translations.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 04:48 by Boni @ : Cartoon Controversy
I believe that these cartoons are simply the spark that lit the keg of dynamite.

No I am not Muslim. I am Canadian Aboriginal.

I cannot speak for the Muslim community. But I can speak from a community that is regularly slagged, treated with disrespect, portrayed as violent, homeless drunks who cannot raise their own children, misunderstood, had atrocities committed upon it and used as the butt of North American jokes and Hollywood westerns.

Eventually, one blows. The daily grinds against a human are cumulative. Sooner or later, a lifetime and often, generations of rage can surface.

A classic example in our case is the tomahawks, war whoops etc by the fans of the Cleveland Indians. In this day and age how would anyone feel about a nun passing out communion wafers at a game by the Roaring Catholics? Yet we are told we are being 'sensitive', 'it's all in good fun' etc.

If the media continues to portray Muslims as terrorists then it is only natural human response that some people will respond in ways that reflect that image, after a lifetime of bigoted misunderstanding. It is unfortunate, but it is, reality. If I kick my dog long enough, one day I will be putting on my boots while petting her and she will bite me--because she doesn't know when the next blow will fall.

These cartoons were a powder spark and the keg is going up. The reason the whole world is reacting so strongly is because if these cartoons create Muslim rage that unites all of their nations--there are enough Muslims in this world to overrun Euro-American civilization. And that scares people. That fear is causing blindness that they cannot see the trend of hostilities the Muslims have been subjected to the past few years and historically, since The Crusades.

Do I approve of the violence? Certainly not--on EITHER side. I do, however, understand it. And that until Euro-American media stops collectively libelling the Muslim community during a time when some of their people have been invaded by the U.S. we can expect more incidents.

There is a reason for the old saying "Do not kick a dog when it's down"...  

7 Feb 2006 @ 05:12 by Peace loving hippy @ : For Ahmed the boycott genius
Hi Ahmed, these boycott sanctions will really hit Denmark hard if all the Muslims stop buying Danish bacon....  

7 Feb 2006 @ 05:51 by vibrani : The Danish government apologized
what more do you want? You can't turn back the clock.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 06:17 by canadian @ : settle down.
I love you all... whether you be muslim, christian, athiest, etc. Some of the comments on this site are completely disgusting and indiciative of why there is confusion and hatred to begin with. Stop the ignorant slander. Respect one another.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 06:21 by Ash @ : why not
good pictures and i am with you. fuck moslims. fuck mohammad  

7 Feb 2006 @ 06:33 by David McAlister @ : Alas the two sides have blinders on.....
My 6 Perspectives:

First: Commentary is good and necessary. Whether political or religious in topic, and in whatever form, it is meant as a seed for people's thought processes. It should not be constrained less certain facts, people and issues be swept under the rug. Open, healthy debate encourages understanding as well as increased transparency. Things fester in the dark.

Second: I believe that there is much misinterpretation in the world. I believe that many muslims likely misunderstood the point of some of the cartoons. In a similar vane I would argue that the west's understanding of the Muslim world is lacking and that it may not appreciate their perspective entirely.

Third: I think that the time bomb/turban picture is a very telling and sad image. Look at it outside the fact that Mohammed is in it. Devorse onself from it and think of it as a Muslim person, any Muslim. What that cartoon says is that Muslims want to cause death and destruction. That is how a good portion of the western world views the Muslim world - barbaric bombers. Muslims should be worried about how they have been stereotyped, because it is an injustice and can only serve to harm them. Now, I personally have Muslim friends and am quite aware that this is a stereotype perpetuated by only a few. Unfortunately, those few make the headlines in the media in the west all the time amidst, you guesses it, boms and explosions. We don't see the other side of Muslims. Include the symbolic Mohammed back in the picture. In this case I believe Mohammed was used as a symbol for the religion. Put the two together and you have an age old issue. Yes, even the Catholics (the Crusades) have had issues with it. The turban bomb on top of Mohammed is really saying that religion, Muslim religion, is being used as a scapegoat for killing people and destroying things. That is a valid adn good commentary to make.

Four: Violence, burning emassies, killing people. You can't tell me that any deity would pardon anyone for taking someone's life, etc. It's weak, ignorant, immoral and causes the death cycle to perpetuate. Killing someone in this case would be like idoltry because of what is says about Mohammmed, exactly what is not supposed to happen. Listen to your deity. Did he say pick up an AK47 and a molotov cocktail and go wreak havoc. That is a blasphemous use of any religion.

Five: The cartoons were the ignition source for the gas that has been pressurizing for some time. You name it, U.S. actions in the middle east, oil issues, poverty, lack of education and lack of jobs, have all conspired to make the situation extremely tense at best in the Middle East. It will only get worse when the oil and gas run out. The wealth difference between the west and middle east will gro further and create an even more fractious environment of have's and have not's.

Six: Where should the Muslim's anger/energy be directed? From my stance, first it is their government and religious leaders that could allow them to prosper if their societies were more effectively run. It doesn't have to be a democracy, but corruption, rights and safety must be controlled. Second, act adult like with other nations. No bombs or guns or swords. Communication will work best in the end. Don't try the heavy handed approach like the Americans - they don't win points with people overseas.

Hopefully, people have learned something from this event.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 08:31 by bora @ : you know the subject 2
David McAlister, If you knew who Mohammed is, you wouldn't accept that bomb figured on top of his head. The only thing I can do now is to weep, that is all. Someone insulted my beliefs under the shield of freedom of speech.
I think:
If a person cannot say that Hitler is not wrong, he can't draw Mohammed like that too. If you defend tolerence to all ideas, tolerate all ideas, or stop pretending to defending it.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 08:34 by bora @ : you know the subject 3
The article is taken from:
Thank you west, now I really know what you are.

Countries That Have Abolished or Have Not Recently Applied

Laws Prohibiting Insult to Religious Belief: Czech Republic, Denmark, Norway, Sweden and the United States

In some European countries, blasphemy laws have been repealed entirely. In Sweden, the general law of blasphemy was abolished in 1949 and a narrower crime of religious insult was abolished in 1970.

In the Czech Republic, the concept of the crime of blasphemy is unknown in the legal order. The Czech Republic has only Criminal Code Section § 198 (No 140/1961 Coll of Law) which provides that insults to the nationality, race or conviction of a group of inhabitants of the Republic can be punished by up to one year of imprisonment. There are (currently no/never any?) cases under this section concerning religious conviction. We are aware of one currently pending case involving song lyrics claimed to be insulting to the Roma minority.

In Denmark, while a law prohibiting blasphemy exists under Section 140 of the Danish Penal Code, it has not been used since 1938. The Danish Penal Code also contains a provision (Section 266b) against expressions that threaten, deride or degrade on the grounds of race, colour, national or ethnic origin, belief or sexual orientation. That provision, however, has never been used against statements offensive to religion. In 1984 a local art club asked an artist, Jens Jørgen Thorsen, to create a "happening" on the wall of the local railway station. The work displayed a naked Jesus with an erect penis. The work caused considerable controversy, and was eventually removed, but no legal charges were ever brought. In 1992, a film made by the same artists was shown in cinemas all over Denmark. The film portrayed Jesus as sexually active and the clergy as corrupt. Though the film caused debate, no legal measures were taken and no charges were laid.

In Norway, Section 142 of the Penal Code provides the possibility of punishment for any person who "publicly insults or in an offensive manner shows contempt for any religious creedor for the doctrines or worship of any religious community lawfully existing here." However, this provision has not been applied by the courts since 1936, when an author, Arnulf Øverland was acquitted under this provision. More recently, several Muslim leaders brought a lawsuit against the Norwegian publisher of "Satanic Verses", but withdrew it, apparently in recognition of the fact that they had virtually no chance of success.

Indeed, In Norway, the abolition of Section 142 is being debated. The removal of that section from the penal code is suggested in a report commissioned by the Norwegian Department of Culture in 1993 entitled "New Threats against Freedom of Information in the Nordic Countries - Diagnosis and Suggestions". The Report suggests that "this law implies an unacceptable encroachment on freedom of expression."

In the United States, blasphemy laws have uniformly been struck down as unconstitutional under the First Amendment guarantee of freedom of speech. While blasphemy statutes and ordinances were generally upheld in earlier state court cases, the U.S. Supreme Court effectively brought an end to blasphemy proceedings in the United States with its decision in Joseph Burstyn, Inc v. Wilson, 343 U.S. 495 (1952). In that case the State of New York banned the showing of a film by the Italian producer/director Roberto Rossellini entitled "The Miracle" on the ground that it was "sacrilegious." The film's distributors thereupon brought an action arguing that the statute pursuant to which it was banned was an unconstitutional prior restraint upon freedom of speech. The Supreme Court, in a unanimous decision, agreed with this argument. Justice Clarke explained the Court's reasoning as follows:

In seeking to apply the broad and all-inclusive definition of "sacrilegious" given by the New York Courts, the censor is set adrift upon a boundless sea amid a myriad of conflicting currents of religious views, with no charts but those provided by the most vocal and powerful orthodoxies. New York cannot vest such unlimited restraining control over motion pictures in a censor[U]nder such a standard the most careful and tolerant censor would find it virtually impossible to avoid favouring one religion over another, and he would be subject to an inevitable tendency to ban the expression of unpopular sentiments sacred to a religious minority.

Id. at 504-05. Justice Clarke concluded by observing that, It is not the business of government in our nation to suppress real or imagined attacks upon a particular religious doctrine, whether they appear in publications, speeches or motion pictures.

In a recent civil case the plaintiff sought to enjoin the showing of Martin Scorcese's "The Last Temptation of Christ" on the ground that the film was a defamatory interpretation of the life of Jesus Christ that infringed on his and other believers' constitutional right of freedom of worship and religion. (Nyack v. MCA Inc., 911 F.2d 1082 (5th Cir 1990), cert. denied, 498 U.S. 1087 (1991)). The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit, citing Burstyn, affirmed the dismissal of the application. Id. at 1083. The Supreme Court refused to hear the case, allowing the Court of Appeal's decision to stand.

C. Countries Where the Display of Materials Offensive to Religious Beliefs May Be Prohibited Under Certain Circumstances Such as Intent of Publisher and Age of Audience: Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Spain

The use of laws against blasphemy or religious insult is curtailed in many countries by consideration of factors such as the intent to the publisher, the age of the prospective audience, or the likelihood of a breach of the peace.

In Germany, Section 166 of the Criminal Code forbids insults to a religion or "Weltanschauung" (world outlook), publicly or by dissemination of publications. It states:

Whoever publicly or by distribution of printed materials insults religious belief or Weltanschauung of others in manner that reasonably could be expected to disturb public peace, is subject to[punishment]

The same applies to persons who publicly insult a church or other association devoted to a religion or Weltanschauung.

For an insult to be punishable under this law "the manner and content" of the insult must be such that an objective onlooker could reasonably apprehend that the insult would disturb the peace of those who share the insulted belief. (Court of Appeal of Celle, Neue Juristische Wochenschrift, 1986, p. 1275.) Moreover, to be convicted, an offender must intend or at least be aware that his or her action constituted an offence. In applying Section 166 to a work of art, the freedom of art as guaranteed by Article 5(3) of the Basic Law must be taken into account[6].

Although the Federal Constitutional Court has not issued a judgment dealing specifically with the freedom of art vis-a-vis the freedom of religious beliefs, various penal courts have done so. For example, in a 1981 case, the Penal Court of Appeal of Cologne held that a caricature with words of Maria and Josef, dealing with faecal issues and abortion, did not in all circumstances show hostility against Christians (Neue Juristische Wochenschrift 1982, p. 657). In a 1985 case, the Court of Appeal of Karlsruhe ruled that a printed article which dealt sarcastically with the Last Supper did not constitute an insult. (Neue Strafrechtszeitung 1986, pp. 363 ff.) In 1988, the Penal Court of Bochum held that a leaflet, even if an insult, which addressed "the Vatican and fascism" and included caricatures, was not of a character to disturb the peace. In considering cases involving religious insult, German courts most likely would not prohibit such displays so long as the viewing was limited to adults who had been informed in advance of the nature and contents of the material.

In the Netherlands, blasphemy is a criminal offence under the Penal Code Article 147 (introduction and sub 1 Wetboek van Strafrecht), but this provision only covers expressions concerning God, and not saints and other revered religious figures ("godslastering"). Further, the criminal offence of blasphemy has been interpreted to require that the person who makes the expression must have had the intention to be "scornful" ("smalend"). This is a stricter test than normally is applied to the intent of the defendant. (Hazelwinkel-Suringa, H.D. Tjeenk Willink, Alphen aan den Rijn, 1979, p. 163). Thus, even if it were objectively foreseeable that people would be aggrieved, and those people actually were aggrieved, there is no offence if the speaker did not have the intent to be scornful.

This intent requirement was confirmed in one of the very few blasphemy cases in the Netherlands. An established Dutch writer, Gerard Kornelis van het Reve, represented God in a novel as a donkey. Moreover, the storyteller contemplated having sexual intercourse with the animal. In 1968, the Hoge Raad (the highest appellate court) acquitted the author because it was not proven that his aim was to be scornful. (Hoge Raad 2 April 1968, NJ 1968 no 373).

In France, while there is no law against blasphemy, Article 283 of the Penal Law proscribes the showing of a film contrary to good morals, ("contraires aux bonnes moeurs"). Apparently, no film has ever been prosecuted under this provision, and furthermore, the new penal code (in force from 1 March 1994) contains no such provision (except concerning minors). In a 1988 case, several groups asked the court to ban the showing of Martin Scorcese's "The Last Temptation of Christ". The court rejected this application, noting that the right to respect for beliefs should not interfere in an unjustified manner with artistic creativity. In upholding the lower court's decision, the Court of Appeal ordered that all advertisements for the film should include an announcement that the film was based on a novel and not upon the Gospel. (Cour d' appel de Paris, 28 September 1988.)

The French Code of Civil Procedure, which permits courts by way of expedited procedure to order preventative measures to limit imminent damage or to stop trouble which is manifestly illegal, has been used to place certain limits upon the advertising of films. For example, in 1984, before the showing of the Jean-Luc Goddard film "Ave Marie", the advertising posters showed a naked crucified woman (a scene that did not appear in the film). Several Catholic associations asked the Court to withdraw the use of the posters because they considered them to be an outrage to Catholic values. The Court ordered the withdrawal of the posters, emphasising that the representation of the cross in this manner and under these conditions could constitute an aggressive and gratuitous intrusion upon individuals who are suddenly confronted, without their consent, to this public advertising display; central to the Court's finding was the fact that the advertisements could be seen by people moving freely in public areas who had not chosen or were not seeking contact with these particular posters. (Tribunal de grande instance de Paris, 23 October 1984, Association Saint Pie V et autres contre Groupement des afficheurs parisiens et autres, D. 1985. 31, upheld on appeal, Cour d' appel de Paris, 26 decembre 1984, D. 1985, 728).

In Belgium, there is no longer a law criminalising blasphemy in general. Article 4 of the Decree of 23 September 1814, which penalised writings and images offensive to religion, was abrogated by the Fundamental Law of 1815 (Constitution of the "Kingdom of the United Netherlands"). Article 144 of the Penal Code does, however, proscribe a very restricted offence of religious insult, by penalizing those who offend the objects of religion in places of religious worship or at public religious celebrations. This provision is inapplicable to offences to religion expressed outside the context of a religious celebration or a place of worship.

Other articles of the Penal Code may be applied to writings, images, paintings, or films defaming religion, in particular, Articles 443-452 which penalize defamation, and Articles 383-386(bis), which penalize public offence to morals and sexuality. These articles have been applied to religious offences. For instance, in 1988, the Court of Appeal of Ghent held that some artists had violated Article 383 by displaying 14 paintings depicting the Stations of the Cross in the middle of the historic centre of Ghent. (Court of Appeal, 2 May 1988, reprinted in D. Voorhoof, Actuele vraagstukken van Mediarecht. Doctrine en jurisprudentie, at 133). The display included very large paintings of Jesus Christ and emphasised his genitals including an erect penis with the use of fluorescent paint. According to the Court, the paintings also depicted all sorts of sexual perversities, such as paedophilia, masturbation, anal sex and sadism. It is important to note, however, that, in finding that the paintings offended good morals, "les bonnes moeurs" - "goede zeden", within the meaning of Article 383 of the Penal Code, the Court emphasised that the paintings were publicly displayed in the middle of the historic centre of the city, and that a large public would inevitably and without their consent have been confronted with these paintings.

Where only consenting and well-informed adults are to be exposed to the material, courts in Belgium are less likely to prohibit the showing of pornographic or blasphemous materials. For example, in a 1991 decision, the Court of Appeal of Brussels held that given the limited nature of the sexual acts depicted, it would not ban images which offended certain individual spectators but which were not offensive to most of the spectators in light of the fact that all of the spectators had consented to see the film. (Court of Appeal of Brussels, 24 April 1991, Journal des Proces, 1991, nr. 195, 30 en J.T., 1992, 15). Likewise, in another case concerning a "peep show" the Court of Appeal of Mons said that the fact that a majority of individuals may find certain images offensive does not mean that other individuals, who may represent a minority, should not be permitted to view them, provided that they are adults who have expressed their willingness to do so. (Court of Appeal Mons, 3 March 1989, J.L.M.B., 1991, 1360).

However, accessibility to the public is not necessarily a determinative factor in Belgium. Under Section 383 (3) of the Penal Code, production, import, possession or distribution of pornographic films is prohibited, and a conviction may stand regardless of whether the materials were presented to, for example, unwitting audiences or minors. (Cass., 15 March 1994, Recente Arresten van het Hof van Cassatie, 1994-1995, 245 and Court of Appeal Antwerp, 24 November 1994, Rechtskundig Weekblad, 1994-1995, 1372).

In Spain, though the crime of blasphemy was abolished in 1988, the Constitutional Court has ruled that the right to freedom of expression, broadly protected by Article 20 of the Constitution, can be subject to restrictions aimed both at the protection of the rights of others as well as at the protection of other constitutionally protected interests. The extent to which "rights of others" may justify a restriction is construed narrowly by the Court; generally speaking, the "other" must be an identified individual whose fundamental rights have been directly affected by the expression.

Although there is no case-law from the Constitutional Court regarding the extent to which the right of freedom of religion could be posited as a ground for restricting freedom of speech, it can be assumed on the basis of prior case-law that another ground, such as the protection of morals, would have to be relied upon to justify a restriction of freedom of expression, for instance in the case of a film offensive to the Catholic Church. The fact that only interested adults are likely to be the audience of a work of art is also a relevant consideration under Spanish law.

In Italy, Articles 402-406 of the Penal Code prohibit offence to the State religion. A lesser offence of "bestemmia" (words insulting to religion) is contained in Article 724. These provisions were thrown into confusion by the law of 25 March 1985 n. 121 (Accordo di Modifica del Concordato Lateranense), repealing the law proclaiming Catholicism to be the official State religion in Italy. Since that time, there has been disagreement concerning whether Articles 402-406 remain in force due to the fact that these provisions concern only insult to the "State religion". Two recent cases have suggested that these provisions are no longer in force and that § 724 does not apply only to the "State religion". (Corte Cost., ord 23 aprile 1987 n. 147 in "Giurisprudenza constituzionale" 1987, I, p. 991 s.)

The use of these provisions have been declining in recent years. Only two cases have been brought concerning the application of these provisions in relation to films since 1985, and both were struck down. (v. sent. Trib. Bologna 27 luglio 1985, imp. Addobbati, in "Cassazione penale" 1987, p 211 s. and v. sent. Trib. Venezia 8 ottobre, imp. Scorsese e altro, in "Foro italiano" 1988, II, c. 705 ss). One concerned the French film "Je vous salue, Marie" and the second concerned "The Last Temptation of Christ". Both cases, brought under § 402, were struck down in view of the 1985 law. In the latter case, the court of first instance had noted that there was no intent to insult.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 09:33 by I @ : islam

7 Feb 2006 @ 11:11 by Vegard @ : missing the point
You're seriously missing the point her. you're mentioning that you don't see how a drawn religious person can't be offensive, I can't help but agree, but that's not the point. muslims are not pissed of because of an offensive drawing it's just the principle that he should not be attempted drawn at all... However, the rage might not be justified, misunderstandings and ignorance is something we all experience from time to time, but I don't go trashing an embassy just because I am offended!  

7 Feb 2006 @ 12:40 by miss_led_uk @ : Is it just a excuse
Hi i think the world has gone mad!! so too has PC ok so i am sorry to say the muslims are offended by the cartoons and maybe rightly so. Where i live we are affraid to offend so much its gone mad! the banning off piggy banks which have been tradtion are now banned! muslims here spent many years in houses then realised they were urinating towards mecca and yet again it was offentsive so my local council spent millions of pounds turning the toilets round. Racism works both ways here. The guy who dressed up as a suiside bomber who was incidently a crack dealer out on parole. He oppoligised and said he didnt realsie he was being offensive. he expects us to accept his appoligies so why cant muslims eccept the guy who printed the cartoons in the first place. We are tollerant of there religion but cant tollerance work both ways. Now they are probable planning revenge as the banners have said death to they who blashpheme Islam in what form of revenge are they talking about??  

7 Feb 2006 @ 12:45 by gaynor @ : the mohammed cartoons
personally, I despise all forms of religion, although I am fascinated by its existance and i enjoy researching the origins of religion. It is all so complicated, that I believe all religions diversified from one initial belief. I fail to see why these cartoons are offensive....but then I'm not a burkha-wearing lunatic. I believe in all living together peacefully, but everything has got out of hand, and if muslims hate us non believers so much why don't they all just go home and ignore us? As for the issue in Great Britain....we have a spineless bunch of cretins in power, who have obviously all been offered influential jobs in Brussells when we deign to kick them out. So they're too scared of losing their cushy little numbers to stand up for us british at home.

There is a real danger that naturally law abiding, tolereant people are going to get seriously pissed off whith being second rate citizens in their own country. Our government has promoted "Positive Descrimination", in that if you're a non white british person you can do and have what the hell you want! Viva the Revolution!!  

7 Feb 2006 @ 13:09 by Drew @ : Wild man
Speaking of the arabs "He shall be a wild ass of a man; His hand shall be against everyman and every mans hand against him" How TRUE!!!  

7 Feb 2006 @ 14:48 by Anonymous @ : No Double Standard
Bora, thats not true.

In Norway and Denmark you truly have free speech. You can also say that "Hitler did no wrong" there, too. Although, you can get in trouble for killing people's character with lies. So if you in the process of saying Hitler did no wrong are caught in outright lies that can be proven in a court of law, you are moving into murky waters.

So, Bora, you see, there is no double standard, and I am sick of dishonest comparisons you just made to justify restricting free speech.

The religious christian fanatics in Norway have been pushing for years on blasphemy laws and restriction of free speech, much like what George Bush and their ilk in the US want to do to the first amendment. So, I bet these ugly forces thrive and relish at the opportunity the Islamo-fascists are providing.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 15:01 by Josh @ : Double Standard
All of these radical muslims should be locked up. I read today that the Iranian newspaper is holding a contest to see who can draw the best holocaust cartoon. The Iranian's along with every other arab state newspaper runs cartoons depiticting jews and christians along with their religious dieties in a negative way almost every day. You don't see christians and jews outside arab state embasy's throwing rocks and fire bombs. The muslim reaction is outrageous. These fanatical imams are attempting to start a religous would war. Our world leaders need to develop energy plans so that we no longer rely on the arabs for oil. Then we can tell them to fuck themselves.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 15:20 by Ahmed @ : FUCK ALL THE NON-MUSLIM
god bliss our be loved prophet mohammed, god protected you while you were alife from those fucking un-human people, and he will protect your holeness while you are dead, unfortunatly that these animales are still alife and breathing air, prophet mohammed god bliss you while you are alife and bliss you while you are dear, we all love you we all love you, you are the one who tought us and tought the humenity how to respect people, and how to treat others, you tought us what the real life means, the real respect menas, while those who did not know you still living in dark ages, like animales, lossing thier mind while drinking alcohol, sexual disease spreding in thier fucking countries, look what they do in Gwantanmo, and they said that Muslim are turrorest, look what they are doing in Abo Ghraib jail in iraq and they still said that we are turrorest, look what they did in Vitnam, Heroshima, Nakazaki, look what they did Palestine, and they still believe that we are turrorst..... You see they are living in dark ages.......
they claim that they are human, but any wise people know that they are not,
what do you want you idiots by drowing these pics, you are not muslims you idiots so keep your failthy hands away form the puority of islam ...... keep your failthy mouth away from our be loved Prophet mohammed.
we muslims ready to secrefice by our self to protect you Mohammed, we are ready to secrefice by our kids by our family, by our wilth to protect you Mohammed.
please god, we all pray to you to kill the pastereds, to kill those fucking non-human non-muslim peoples,
one last world from a man who love his prophet mohammed

7 Feb 2006 @ 15:23 by gls @ : peace
Even the finest teaching is not the Tao itself.
Even the finest name is insufficient to define it.
Without words, the Tao can be experienced,
and without a name, it can be known.

To conduct one's life according to the Tao,
is to conduct one's life without regrets;
to realize that potential within oneself
which is of benefit to all.

Though words or names are not required
to live one's life this way,
to describe it, words and names are used,
that we might better clarify
the way of which we speak,
without confusing it with other ways
in which an individual might choose to live.

Through knowledge, intellectual thought and words,
the manifestations of the Tao are known,
but without such intellectual intent
we might experience the Tao itself.

Both knowledge and experience are real,
but reality has many forms,
which seem to cause complexity.

By using the means appropriate,
we extend ourselves beyond
the barriers of such complexity,
and so experience the Tao.

Up to Index


We cannot know the Tao itself,
nor see its qualities direct,
but only see by differentiation,
that which it manifests.

Thus, that which is seen as beautiful
is beautiful compared with that
which is seen as lacking beauty;
an action considered skilled
is so considered in comparison
with another, which seems unskilled.

That which a person knows he has
is known to him by that which he does not have,
and that which he considers difficult
seems so because of that which he can do with ease.
One thing seems long by comparison with that
which is, comparatively, short.
One thing is high because another thing is low;
only when sound ceases is quietness known,
and that which leads
is seen to lead only by being followed.
In comparison, the sage,
in harmony with the Tao,
needs no comparisons,
and when he makes them, knows
that comparisons are judgements,
and just as relative to he who makes them,
and to the situation,
as they are to that on which
the judgement has been made.

Through his experience,
the sage becomes aware that all things change,
and that he who seems to lead,
might also, in another situation, follow.
So he does nothing; he neither leads nor follows.
That which he does is neither big nor small;
without intent, it is neither difficult,
nor donᇘŮwi?? e��e.��r ଯ> His task completed, he then lets go of it;
seeking no credit, he cannot be discredited.
Thus, his teaching lasts for ever,
and he is held in high esteem.

Up to Index


By retaining his humility,
the talented person who is also wise,
reduces rivalry.

The person who possesses many things,
but does not boast of his possessions,
reduces temptation, and reduces stealing.

Those who are jealous of the skills or things
possessed by others,
most easily themselves become possessed by envy.

Satisfied with his possessions,
the sage eliminates the need to steal;
at one with the Tao,
he remains free of envy,
and has no need of titles.

By being supple, he retains his energy.
He minimizes his desires,
and does not train himself in guile,
nor subtle words of praise.
By not contriving, he retains
the harmony of his inner world,
and so remains at peace within himself.

It is for reasons such as these,
that an administration
which iᇘŮco??er��d  

7 Feb 2006 @ 16:11 by MacG @ : Ahmed's post
Your post is as offensive as the cartoons in most islamic understanding.
You speak of Mohammed and then curse and wish death to non-muslims.
If you understood Mohammed you wouldn't use his name and curse words in the same sentence.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 16:57 by A Dane @ : Cartoons
There is no freedom of speech in those Arab countries where the demonstrations and public outrage are being staged. The reason many people flee to Europe from these places is precisely because they have criticized religion, the political establishment and society. Totalitarian Islamic regimes are in a deep crisis. Globalization means that they're exposed to considerable change, and they also fear the reformist forces developing among emmigrants in the West. They'll use threatening gestures against the West, and the success they achieve with their threats, to intimidate these people.

In 1980, privately owned British broadcaster ITV aired a documentary about the beheading of a Saudi Arabian princess who had allegedly committed adultery. The government in Riyadh intervened and the British government issued an apology. We saw the same kowtowing response in 1987 when (Dutch comedian) Rudi Carrell derided (Iranian revolutionary leader) Ayatollah Khomeini in a comedy skit (that was aired on German television). In 2000, a play about the youngest wife of the Prophet Mohammed, titled "Aisha," was cancelled before it ever opened in Rotterdam. Then there was the van Gogh murder and now the cartoons. We are constantly apologizing, and we don't notice how much abuse we're taking. Meanwhile, the other side doesn't give an inch.

The cartoons should be displayed everywhere. After all, the Arabs can't boycott goods from every country. They're far too dependent on imports. And Scandinavian companies should be compensated for their losses. Freedom of speech should at least be worth that much to us.

Not a day passes, in Europe and elsewhere, when radical imams aren't preaching hatred in their mosques. They call Jews and Christians inferior, and we say they're just exercising their freedom of speech. When will the Europeans realize that the Islamists don't allow their critics the same right? After the West prostrates itself, they'll be more than happy to say that Allah has made the infidels spineless.
Muslims must realize that it was human beings who wrote the holy scriptures. After all, most Christians don't believe in hell, in the angels or in the earth having been created in six days. They now see these things as symbolic stories, but they still remain true to their faith.

Your mosque's here in the West are used as a save haven for fanatic radical imams. Not a day passes, in Europe and elsewhere, when radical imams aren't preaching hatred in their mosques. I never understood why all these Muslims are here if they hate us so much, and why should we change our values to satisfy them, if you don’t like the smell in the bakery go home.
Also the Muslims must realize that it was human beings who wrote the Holy Scriptures. After all, most Christians don't believe in hell, in the angels or in the earth having been created in six days. They now see these things as symbolic stories, but they still remain true to their faith. The rhetoric Muslims are using when having a “peaceful” demonstration is horrific, wake up! You are centuries behind.
Its about time you Muslims with a more moderate view stand up and kick the fanatic out of your community, nothing will change before that happen.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 17:21 by nicholas @ : the cartoons
i believed that the terrorists were the radical arm of the Muslim faith akin to any other over the top religious fanatic. I stand corrected. Muslims worldwide that do not decry the violence, that take this too seriously are indeed insane. They scare the crap out of me for want of a better phrase.
Grow up. Join the real and modern world. I truly believe in freedom of religion and freedom of expression.
Muslim= hater in my opinion. No different than any other racist radical group that sparks disgust in civilized and tolerant people.
Mohammed himself would have laughed at the cartoons. they are satire. Mohammed would never incite such violent and assenine behaviour from his followers.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 17:22 by Hana @ : The best solution - spare us
People like Ahmed, living in their own crazy world with severly infected brain with fundamental interpretation of Kuran should really move out of all non-muslim countris and join their brothers, potenial shahids who will "live" happily ever after blowing themselves up - so please, lets make it simple, you go back to your muslim countries and stay there and we will not come there. i am sure you would find a way with all that explosive to divide the planned and all the bridges that exists between YOU and other normal people who are to busy working and paying tax which eventually ends up as humaniatarian or development assistance to non-developed muslim countries (among others) so you can get free food and clothing while you are having more time to learn more about how to destroy the hand that feeds you.
You have tunred islam into the most hated religion in the world - it went to such extend that normal decent muslim people are ashamed to even mention thay are muslims out of fear of being "branded" as followers of the most violent religion...what has happened to you all???!!! if you prefer to die - pls just kill youself immediately - if its going to mkae you happy..we will aslo be less danger for our children...or simply go and read again and again Kuran...untill you get it right and learn to love not hate, respect that other people are not thinking like you..
Hana from India  

7 Feb 2006 @ 17:30 by GOD @ : Cartoons
The cartoons are just a bit of fun. Its alright for muslims to poke fun at other religions, persecute other religions, blow up innocent people, kill and murder in the name of the Koran, chop of limbs persecute women!!!!!!!!!!!!!
However when someone draws a cartoon its insulting their prophet. Don't these people understand that muslims have managed to insult their own religion more than anyone from any faith could ever do!!!!

A few cartoons are not going to insult GOD. Killing, murdering maiming is a direct insult to GOD. If a muslim can't understand that then shame on you who calls him/her self muslim.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 17:54 by matt @ : cartoons
i don't see anything all the offensive, i believe there was a art museum, which have Crucifix laying in container of urine, did you see the christians rioting and burning? The muslins will use any reason to vent their hatred of jews and western world. Why would iran ask for cartoons of jews in response, jewish people did not publish any of these cartoons. i know nothing about mohammed, other than thousands of innocent men women and children are kill in the name allah and mohammed is his prophet. The muslin people are directly responsible for letting there good religion be hijacked by these sick extremists.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 18:10 by amin @ : Cartoons
my name is amin and i m a new muslim i was hindu i m doing research on islam and the west.
i like to say something here
befor talk about someone try do search on it plz.because if u gona throw one rock they will throw more rocks

“what the purpos of muslim in this world”said by editor of time magazine on cnn today at 5:30 hahhah ask ur self what the purpos of u guys …. killing millions of ppl all around the world since 1st world war or before that
wars with every nations comon man u guys even had a war with ur forfathers(england,france etc) killed most of the american natives,90 000 indians in india ,17th century to 19th under the english ruls and ur blaming muslims…..
comon its not the point who started befor 9/11 usama was traind by usa to used him and afgahni against rusia but he find out what kind of ppl u r
and allways talk about muslims and islam …they kill women and chilldren … no we do not kill women if u study islam u ll find out
what about u ppl who killed 40 000 women in europe and america since the darkages to 18th century under the church low,because the prists and thair followers were thinking that those women posess by evil spirits hahhah … oh i m not saying its ur discovery channel saying….
if u wana talk about women and racisims and freedom comon free ur nation first…..y dont u guys have any female president in usa or black man or women hun…
we have female president in muslim cuntries such as pakistan :benezer bangladesh hasina shaikh and in indonesia,india
freedome of spech right…hun if we says something about usa or jew its called antiusa right and by the way u ppl killed so many jews not muslims ….
jews were safe in muslims countries befor the took over palstain read read read read the history
comon get a life
lied lied on everythings …nuclear..bombs terorits where r those WMD and USAMA bin laden or usama bin usa(uncle sam) hahah
and its not i guy publish the cartoon its repeat over and over again in all over europe thats y muslims reacts and thas y even usa or any other counrty did not published further in the history of islam we never did publish or draw any pics of jesus or moses forget about cartoons not even single picture..
it was afganistan then iraq now its iran? then syria,pakistan then …. what,where, who is next .. hahah the tarin never be let.
comon ppl think..
by the way saddam was the best friend of america…hahha usama was to…watch out pakistan s president mushraff hahhah
..muslims did not participeted in 1st war world and 2nd but 3rd inshallah muslim will
so before point ur index toward islam study it. try to know it. because knowledge is not just listen from one side(only westren media) try to listen from muslims and other too.
here is the saying in my laungage hindi. do not mess with poor or 3rd world country because once tahir head trun upside down they will mess ur whloe life up side down because tehy ahve nothing to loose except life and honor and u have lost of thing to loose,future plans,space,planets, free world,money money ,all dreams hahha
so plz leave muslims alone and let them believe what they believe and so do muslims too  

7 Feb 2006 @ 18:19 by PETE @ : muslims
i think its time for all the muslim people who wrote in on this blog
to take back there religion. we all understand how the other feels forget about the cartoon are you serious its a cartoon make it something bigger like a blessing.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 18:26 by A Free Man @ : FREE PEOPLE
Quote from Ahmed @ : FUCK ALL THE NON-MUSLIM

“we muslims ready to secrefice by our self to protect you Mohammed, we are ready to secrefice by our kids by our family, by our wilth to protect you Mohammed.
please god, we all pray to you to kill the pastereds, to kill those fucking non-human non-muslim peoples,
one last world from a man who love his prophet mohammed

If this statement that this Ahmed fellow wrote isn’t proof enough that people like this need to be annihilated then I don’t know what is. He just called for the murder of ALL NON MUSLIMS. He also mentioned that he is ready to sacrifice his own children, HIS OWN FAMILY! This man is sick and someone needs to take his children away immediately.

People like this usually get killed or locked up in mental institutions in civilized societies. But what’s extremely disturbing about this person is (and this is based on the assumption that what he typed is honest) that he actually believes what he is saying. People need to realize that America and many other countries are fighting exactly these types of people. They are sick, demented and so very much in need of long term therapy. It’s decades of religious fanaticism being handed down in a highly uneducated culture and it’s leading this world into global World War. Many more people will die and many more will suffer simply because people like this can’t get a grip on reality.

I would like to say just this, has anyone actually seen this Allah? Has anyone seen the after life? Can anyone prove that there is life after death? Can anyone prove that there is a God?

I know this answer and it’s simple, no one can prove any of this. Yet there are people in religions murdering other people because of a mental condition that can’t even prove what they believe is real. Now don’t get me wrong, I have faith and I believe. But for me it’s a journey that I have to take alone and one that each individual will have to face at some point in their life. But do you see me writing anything or anywhere near the lines as this poor Ahmed fellow?

People, that’s the difference between civilized and non civilized. If Ahmed doesn’t change his violent and destructive views to better himself, his family and mankind around him, my belief is that he will face something far worse than what he believes his enemies will face.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 18:41 by BrYan @ : ?
In the interest of time, I will make this as brief and vague as possible - true to the core none the less.

All things considered, throughout our world and cultures, there is not living today, any culture that has not morally, or respectfully exercised free speech or expression and NOT offended or insulted another culture.

For lack of a better phrase, for the Muslim culture to act holier than thou, and maintain that they have never performed any act of expression that is not deemed insulting, or offending, is completely absurd.

May hypocrisy destroy the credibility of any man or woman who chooses to speak.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 19:00 by Free Man @ : FREE PEOPLE
Well spoken BrYan  

7 Feb 2006 @ 19:08 by Wit @ : Yes
In my opinion any religion that tries to justify violence against innocent people is a satanic religion. No exceptions here. Inquisition showed the satanic face of Christianity. What we see today, killings of innocent people who have nothing to do with those cartoons, is the satanic face of Islam.

I must say that until now I've thought that Islam is a peaceful and a very wise religion. All those kids on the streets of Teheran, screaming "Death to Denmark" and what not, is not Islam. I guess the situation is pretty harsh right now in the Middle East. It's not correct though to justify your anger, hatered and violence against innocent people with your religion. The moment you go out and kill a French just because some newspaper editors in that country decided to print those cartoons is just plain idiotic. That person has no influence on any aspect of that situation. At that point you become not worthy of Islam. You're just a murderer who allowed his anger to take over.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 19:21 by Pancho "The pro-ISRAEL mexican" @ : MUSLIMLAND
To end all this Muslim whining. I propose to invest on a win-win situation.
Like providing our muslim friends some kind of martyr "MUSLIMLAND" somewhere far,far away.
Some land where they can be holy and pure. Some land away from the infidels.
There, they can organize a Mega-party where they can curse at the infidels all they want, with explosives, guns, machine guns, rockets, knives, grenades, Al-jazeerah etc...
Which at the end of the festivities and at the count of three they can simultaneously blow themselves up.
Then everybody will be happy.
We'll have a muslim-free society and
They'll have our most sincere gift: an express ticket with no return to their glorious heaven. How about that?  

7 Feb 2006 @ 19:39 by offworktoday @ : Mohammed vs. World
The Kids of Teheran, screaming "Death to Denmark" is the work of the person called Mohammed. They follow his teaching and show us his ways. This should be seen as a sign of the times yet to come. First, you get rid of free speech and then--. Freedom may appear idiotic to those that don't appreceiate what it takes to gain and keep it. Freedom has little value to the one that did not earn it. If Freedom is a gift, then who gave it to you? Islam has never been a religion of freedom or peace, at least not until the spin doctors arrived. Personally, they can yell and scream all they what. They can intimidate the world as a jester. I will keep my ears death to insanity and let them fornicate in hypocrisy. When the times comes I will be ready.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 19:41 by Dr. Shred @ : mohammed cartoons
I read somewhere that when Islam was founded, it spread quickly because Moslems gave you three choices: become a Moslem, give half of your increase per year to Islam, or die. Not much of a choice. You begin to wonder how many Moslems really believe in Islam or feel compelled to believe for fear of being beaten, raped, killed, etc.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken
seriously." --Hubert H. Humphery  

7 Feb 2006 @ 20:04 by ZIM @ : Muslims, are they ever happy?
you muslims need to keep your anger and hatred and ignorance inside your own borders kill yourselves with your intolerence dont drag other ppl into it I cant wait for the day that we dont need oil anymore muslims will turn from antagonists to beggars

other ppls of the worl will only tolerate your terror and bbaby like pissy attitude about everything for so long.... so just shut up draw your own cartoons of our gods I dont care most likely nobody does... if your god is offended then hell come down and smite us all so until he does that just sit down and shut up  

7 Feb 2006 @ 20:07 by Bill McIntyre @ : Islam
This problem is as old as Isaac and Ishmael and its never gonna stop. Unless we stop it. Its time. I'm tired of hearing "its just a small fraction of muslims who are terrorists." Its time to wake up and smell the coffee. Take a good look at the paper or tv news. They're all insane, they are all to blame and they all must be held accountable. These clowns have lost their privilege of living in a free society. First, Islam should be outlawed in this country and every mosque shut down and destroyed. An emergent census should be taken of all middle eastern people living in this country... go door to door if you have to. If you are not a citizen, you should be immediately deported. No questions asked. If you are a citizen and it is determined you espouse radical views or propensities, then your citizenship should be stripped and you should be deported. Next, deploy no less than 5 strategic nuclear warheads and carpet bomb the whole damn region. Lets get rid of all these bastards before the whole world goes up in smoke.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 20:37 by Anonymous @ : No more holocaust
Bill: That is a horrible thing to say. You are just as horrible as the islam-fascists.

Extremists who threaten with killing should be dealt with through the legal system. Extreme islam-fascists should not be granted citizenship to begin with. There should be a crack down on islam-fascists organizing violence.
And moderate muslims should be given protection from the extremists, so they can express themselves freely without fear of being assassinated by extremists.

We need to secularize society so religion is only a private individual matter that people can freely express but not use to subjugate others.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 20:49 by ZIM @ : Islam
Bill thanks for that I fully concur with your views... you honestly I really see this whole middle east problem heading for war I mean they are just asking for it who in thier right mind is going to trust a fanatical country like Iran with nuclear weapons any people drawn to violence by a cartoon and has thier finger on the button needs to be pacified... we should just tell the  

7 Feb 2006 @ 20:52 by MacG @ : to Bill mcintyre and others
So you are defending the freedom of speech by killing all muslims.
Because when the the terrorists kill innocent people you blame islam.
When muslims speak their minds you say they are all insane and you pick every each one of the muslims (like hitler to jews) and kill them and this is your understanding of freedom of speech????  

7 Feb 2006 @ 20:59 by Anonymous @ : I do not want to legally ban
I do not want to legally ban extreme opinions as long as they do not threaten people's lives and are not direct lies designed to kill other people's character.

Because I do believe in dialog and confronting uncomfortable opinions with reason and compassion. By including instead of excluding, people can be swayed to become champions for reason and democracy. Banning opinions does not remove them, it only hides them from public scrutiny and prevents dialog from preventing disaster.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 21:00 by Pancho 'the pro-ISRAEL mexican' @ : Response to Anonymous
Believe me, I see your point Mr. Anonymous. But that's in a Muslim-free world.
These muslims are messing up our society, they won't response well to peaceful actions.
Bill like I am and the rest of us are sick and tired of the ignorance of this people. They have an uncontrollable thirst for violence and murder when things don't go their way.
Desperate times calls for desperate measures....  

7 Feb 2006 @ 21:11 by Sarah @ : ... no Bill
The World IS headed toward a major war like in the late 30'... because another crazy ideology (Islam) wants to take over the world and exterminate entire peoples and their way of life... and ISSlam won't stop until it has succeded or is destroyed like Nazism.
But, from our side, it won't be a war of extermination against a whole people... it will be a war against an evil and murderous ideology/"religion".

... and it will be a war carried out by soldiers, not by mass murderers just as bad as the muslim ennemy... so forget about the carpet nuclear bombing :)  

7 Feb 2006 @ 21:11 by Anonymous @ : What constitutes truth?
Direct lies designed to kill other people's character, constitutes libel and needs to be proven in a court of law, every time it is claimed. This is because the official truth is subject to change any time new facts are revealed.

In many cases the official truth is not based on absolute truth, as different pieces of evidence do not necessary concur with only one theory. In such cases one must accept that there are different opinions as to what the truth is.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 21:11 by MacG @ : bill and pancho
your NAZI heads don't deserve any kind of freedom.
you should be locked up and be treated...(not killed, therapied)  

7 Feb 2006 @ 21:23 by Anonymous @ : For sake of humanity
Pancho, I agree that the Islam-fascist movement must be dealt with in a warlike fashion, but not on the individual level. There are many silent in the masses that are intimidated into silence, who literally are afraid of being killed by extremists. If they say or do something the extremists don't like, they are considered as "fallen from their faith", and dealt with immediately severely unlike the rest of us "infidels" who the extremists will deal with later.

Also, I believe we can win people over by treating individuals according to our principles.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 21:26 by MRS HAGGIS-EATER @ : enough is enough
That hated Imam Abu Hamza, who incited young brainwashed British muslim boys to murder in the name of Islam has been jailed for 7 years today in Britain, and not before time. Our pathetic government adopted a policy of tolerance for muslims as it seemed terrified of upsetting them. The police did nothing either during their protest march at the weekend when these fanatics were brandishing posters implying "behead everyone who doesn't agree with us." There has been a public outcry and the muslim idiot who dressed as a suicide bomber has now gone back to jail.(He was a drug dealer that only served half of his sentence.) A drug dealer and all the misery that he must have caused lots of people.....what right does he have to be upset about anything like a cartoon? So much for a devoted follower of Islam.
What we want to know is why we're all expected to be so tolerant of these brain-washed savages(and I mean these violent protesters NOT ordinary lawabiding muslims.)We keep being told it's a fanatical minority but from where I'm standing it's anything BUT a minority.
I cannot see how a normal, caring, thinking person could devote his/her life to following a paedophile who promises everlasting sex to suicide bombers in paradise. Dream on. What do the women get by the way? Step into the 21st century as you are about 600 years behind us.
As for being offended, you have NO right whatsoever as many of the other letters will tell you, muslim newspapers regularly ridicule other religions but that's ok isn't it? They bulldozed the giant statue of Buddha to the ground and many other atrocities but that's ok. "We're muslims. We rule the earth(or would like to).We are 100% right and everyone else is an infidel." and what about their sharriah law where a woman can be stoned to death for adultery (yes in the 21st century)! She can also be physically abused and beaten by her husband as that's ok too apparently. What a religion this is. Woman have no say and it's better to make sure that they don't become educated as they might form opinions, and pity help a young muslim girl who falls in love with an infidel.There's always a father, brother, or uncle willing to show her the error of her ways by murdering her.
Offensive cartoons? Don't make me laugh.The one about having run out of virgins, was quite funny if it wasn't so serious.
I see that an Israeli newspaper is publishing them today. That should put a new slant on things once the mediaeval savages start burning the Israeli flag.If even 1 of them burned our flag of Scotland in public I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.
My religion is music(it's safer and more fulfilling) and I dread the day when the politically correct tell us that we can no longer play Handel's Messiah as it might offend some muslim or other who could disrupt the concert with a bomb.
I've always embraced Robert Burns' maxim 'a man's a man for a' that' and have never knowingly been racist but enough is enough and I now think that those amongst us who aren't happy with our culture(and all it's flaws, but also all it's freedoms)should leave us in peace, NOW!! Anyway the cartoons were published in September, so why has it taken so long for the muslim brain to get it's head round this and at what point did mohammed decree that every muslim should have a sense of humour bypass?  

7 Feb 2006 @ 21:28 by Anonymous @ : Let's fight for reason
MacG: I agree with your disdain for the Nazi mentality.
And I also believe the West should have stood up to Hitler long before Hitler forced the West to fight him.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 21:32 by vibrani : Mark Twain
once said, "The problem with the human race is.....the human race."  

7 Feb 2006 @ 21:32 by Anonymous @ : Let's fight for reason again
Mr. Haggis eater. Anyone of any race can be indoctrinated to become anything.

read "Lord of the Flies"
read Orwell's 1984  

7 Feb 2006 @ 21:35 by Anonymous @ : Thanks, vibrani
7 Feb 2006 @ 21:32 by vibrani : Mark Twain
once said, "The problem with the human race is.....the human race.

Yes, and it seems to be a race to the bottom, at that.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 21:38 by gaynor @ : mohammed cartoons
what I don't understand is why the muslim extremists have directed their anger towards the jews. Jews are not christians...they do not believe in jesus christ as a prophet. they say he never existed and that the jesus written about was a fake. i would love to know what exact percentage of the world muslim population are actually protesting. i'm presuming its a small why doesn't the western world call them out into the open for an all out war? the world is in a mess, and its all down to a couple of works of fiction...the bible and the koran, both of which have their first pages missing, they're the pages which say.."all characters portrayed in this book are entirely fictional"!!!!!!!!!  

7 Feb 2006 @ 21:44 by REHA @ : WRONG IMAGE






7 Feb 2006 @ 21:45 by respect @ : unbelievable
i cant believe it!! im reading all the comments, so much hate! the muslim people that hate are cussing and hoping to kill the non muslims. Then they say they are not a violent religion. The christians/jews/buddhists/athiests that hate want all the muslims dead. then they claim they are the peaceful ones. GUYS, LISTEN TO YOURSELVES. this isnt nazism, this isnt hitler, this isnt anything. this is a few muslims who found this offensive, and due lack of a better way, they are protesting. What else can they do?? suggestion box? my ass people, get real here. i am a muslim and proud, but i do not consider myself the same religion as those extremist bastards who do this dumb shit and want all non muslims killed. That is not the way of our religion, that is the result of brainwashing and mistreatment. its dumb. anyone who really wants to KNOW who their cussing at, cmon guys, read the Koran, read the Bible, read the Torah, look at the similarities! the major similarity is peace. PEACE!! can you believe it? all this war, all this killing, all this violence, and what 99% of religions preach is peace!!!!!!

get real. If no one is harming you personally, then live your life. if someone came to your house and cussed you out, ok go ahead, beat him. but this religion vs. religion thing has got to stop.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 21:46 by Pancho 'the pro-ISRAEL mexican' @ : to all muslims whining at the USA
Thank God for the USA. I wasn't born here but I came as fast as I could!!!
You muslims never fully appreciate the good things this great country has done for your fellow muslims.
They enjoy real freedom. In the USA they can built all the Islamic temples they want, they can wear all the arab outfits anywhere they want to, they can go anywhere they want to , etc....
Hey, you muslims living in the USA:
If the majority of Muslims are peaceful and love people,
How come you don't use the freedom you enjoy here in the USA and STAND OUT!! Condemn the STUPIDITIES your people are doing all over the world for some stupid innocent cartoons!!!
I know why, deep inside of you, you really support all THIS STUPID HOLY WAR
You're always whining about the USA been a satanic Country.
If you don't like it here get the hell out of here!!!

7 Feb 2006 @ 21:48 by respect @ : exactly, reha
INDEED! in jordan their was a hotel bombing!! DURING A WEDDING. three hotels bombed by so called muslim suicide bombers. SIKE! the real muslims died. anyone ever heard of the "Halloween" movies? the director was arab, and he also directed the movie called "the message" explaining about the prophet Mohammad. He was killed in the attacks. These so called bombs are not made by muslims, they are made by sick sick people. Islam is a religion of peace, i swear to you it is! these are just some bad apples, you always get some in a group. problem is, these people started their own group themselves. No, i do not consider them as muslims.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 21:51 by respect @ : hey pancho
hey man, dont label us ALL as terrorists. i live in DC, and here there are PLENTY of latin american gangs. to name some, SSL (South Side Locos) and MS (Mara Salvatrucha). i dont think all hispanics are violent, but some certainly are, because every day in the news you hear about someone being stabbed with a machetti from gang violence. Please dont say it is a war against ALL MUSLIMS, shit, im a muslim, and if your fighting terrorists, ill join you.

no disrespect intended.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 21:59 by Avis @ : Respect is earned, this isn't how
Rioting over drawings is idiocy. Any respect that I may have had for Islam is now gone. They will know we are Christians by our love. How will we know Muslims? By their lack of humor? By the fact that they want to dish it out, but they can't take it? Go ahead, burn a bible. It's just paper and ink, so is the Koran, and so is that Danish newspaper. When the word becomes more important than the mass produced materials it's printed on, then maybe there is hope. Until then, you can stand firm in the fact that God loves all of us... yes, you too! He loves us so much that he sent his only son to die for us that we might come to know him and have eternal life. Jesus, who was humiliated, tortured, and killed is the example that we should be following. Any arguement to the contrary is just not gospel.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 22:02 by Mrs haggis eater @ : anonymous
yes anyone can become indoctrinated but that doesn't make something right and we don't all have to put up with it. It's MRS not Mr by the way as I am allowed to think for myself being a mere female  

7 Feb 2006 @ 22:21 by reha @ : panco' s empire
Hey panco. Do not trust your big empire so much. Remember even our empire has collapsed which had lasted 624 years and controlled all Middle East., half of Europe , all North Africa , south Russia , caucasions etc. Romans were here before us for more than 1000 years we collapsed their empire. Your turn will also come some day anyway. How long do you think you can carry on with a 650 billion dollars of deficit everyyear  

7 Feb 2006 @ 22:22 by Anonymous @ : Mrs haggis eater
My apiologies Mrs haggis eater, my comment was misplaced and I wholeheartedly agree with your criticism. Indeed, why did it take 4 months before they reacted? It is obvious that sinister forces are using innocent cartoons to start something terrible.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 22:24 by Fatih @ : your problems
y'all people problems same, im a Turkish and we fight this racist and fanatic islamic terorism because Islam dont say kill people and this terorist dont know islam.... But any European country support our fight, left over you must fight now this islamic terorism because you want this... you want petrol, you want make Turkey weakness, you want stop develop of muslims!!!

dont forget this!! Messiah a muslim Messiah a muslim!! Messiah a muslim!! Messiah a muslim!!  

7 Feb 2006 @ 22:32 by vibrani : How about this
let's talk Koran and Bible:
The two brothers (Abraham and Ishmael) and their descendants were not to fight over the inheritance, but rather"compete in good works," as the Koran, Ishmael's guide book, so aptly says. GOOD WORKS, NOT EVIL, NOT HATEFUL.

Koran clearly states (Sura 5:21) that God granted the Land of Israel to the Children of Israel and ordered them to settle there. In addition, it is predicted that before the end of days, God will bring the Children of Israel to retake possession of the Land, gathering them from the different countries and nations (Sura 17:104).

So look at who ISN'T following their own religion.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 22:56 by reha @ : tercume
Fatih kardesim. Ingilizcen cok iyi anlasilamiyor. Yanlis anlamaya sebep olmamak icin istersen turkce yolla ben tercume edeyim  

7 Feb 2006 @ 23:27 by bushman : And yet
Faith, the Turks did genide the Armenians, over the same thing, religion. And we all can bet our bottom dollar, that the NWO, is a religion to some, that only has one thing in mind, eugenics for all the races. This is our/your real enemy. Forcing a self cleansing opperation. Don't fall prey to thier manipulations, religion is to bring people together for peace, and to feed the hungry. To come together as one, during natural desasters. There are those in power "now" that believe this planet Earth can only suport 500 million people, indeffinetly. We do thier work for them, by killing each other, in the name of our Gods.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 23:30 by A Dane @ : To reha
Reha you wrote,
What western country’s was that? And - why are millions and millions of your muslim friends going to Europe if it’s so good in TURKEY.
Glad to see people there can protest in a civilized manner.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 23:59 by ming : Dialogue
I think it is positive to see the comments here. There's some kind of dialogue at least. Half of it is moronic and unpleasant, but the other half is not. We're obviously not all crazy people.

Before this cartoon controversy thing, I was quite willing to believe that fanatic terrorist types, and those angry people with guns demonstrating in the street, would only be a small percentage of Muslims, and that most are just normal, ordinary, decent people. Certainly, I personally don't know other Muslims that the decent, moderate kind. Now, what the cartoon rage did to me was to drop my generalized respect for Muslims a whole number of points. Particularly when I noticed that otherwise moderate Muslims had the same rage and the same outrageous demands. That makes me suddenly think there's something seriously wrong with Islam altogether. Such a mass psychosis doesn't come from nothing.

I'm of course not the only person to think like that. So, I'd say this affair has hurt things enormously for moderate Muslims. Rather than distancing the crazy fanatics from everybody else, this has shown almost all Muslims to stand together in solidarity. And, in the eyes of the west, to stand together in acting unreasonably, insanely, and violently, and in trying to enforce some barbaric rules that belong in the middle ages.

So, you moderate Muslims have a bit of a credibility problem now. You people here are mostly people who're willing to talk about it, and that is very important and positive. But, even though you did it in a fairly pleasant tone, most of you expressed the same sentiment as the people who burned Danish flags in the street. You maybe disagree with the method, but very few of you disagreed with the principle. If you think somebody offends your prophet, no matter their actual intention, no matter where they are, they should be punished.

I doubt this is the only matter that would trigger such a reaction. I had no clue that anybody would have a problem with drawings of Mohammed before this whole thing. I'm a bit worried about any additional list of things that all Muslims in the world would like to force everybody else in the world to live by.

Hopefully more dialogue can soften things up a bit. Otherwise the result has only been to make some very black and white battle lines. Free western societies versus medieval barbarian societies. Or Islam versus the Infidels. That really looks very, very bad.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 23:59 by UR SAVIUOR @ : mohamed pbuh
u tink ur so funny. well lemme tell you whats going to happen. I am Said Al- Harizzi and i am going drive my plane and drop an atomic bomb on USA



8 Feb 2006 @ 00:07 by The Joker @ : Islam is a joke!!
Hey Muslims of the world... here is a question for you. Who is the messiah? Who is going to save you from your own sins? Mohammad? NO.... some guy by the name of Jesus. So why do you know everything about Mohammad, and nothing about the guy who is going to save you from going to hell? I'll tell ya why.... because Satan dosen't want you to know Jesus. Also, don't tell me that Mohammad and Jesus are equals when their messages were totally different. Jesus preached forgiveness and compassion. I think that is something missing from the Koran. Also, the problem with the Muslim and Jewish religions is they preach revenge. Christians are taught not to seek this. THIS IS A MAJOR DIFFERENCE..... GET IT!!!!  

8 Feb 2006 @ 00:07 by A Dane @ : mohamed pbuh
Hmmm - good luck :)) your nuthead.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 00:11 by vibrani : Nope
Jews don't preach revenge.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 01:11 by quasar @ : not sure
I don't trust politicians. I praise them when they do right. I love the freedom I have here though. Gotta think that's why people come here and other places like this. I really don't know how you can enjoy the middle east. Don't you want more equality for the people. I don't agree with all the things we do(especially overseas), but at least we have controversy like prayer in school. That's how far religion is from being forced on us. Pretty much a non issue. I lived with fundamental christians. Thank god there not in charge. Bush might be dumb, but not like these idiots. But the middle east has these type of people in charge? That's gotta suck. And for the 'fuck muslim' and 'Down with islam' people out there. I can't tell the difference between you and the people you hate.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 01:13 by eric @ : loons & cartoons
If this is how muslims behave over a silly cartoon...what can we expect over something more seroius? Arabs, in general, just don't have the required skills to "play well with others". And now they want nuclear power. God, Mohamed, and the rest of the religous icons- protect us from these idiots.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 01:14 by Jack @ : Why even argue ?
Just wait, time will tell.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 01:33 by The Truth @ : So let's have an angry riot
Ugly culture that contribute nothing to the world but destruction. Arab's have no work ethic. They have riots in Egypt after a boat sinks, like that solves anything. Advances in medicine or any technology for the betterment of mankind from any of these countries? None!!! A see a lower form of humanity, a few steps behind on the evolutionary scale. They prove Darwin's theory. Lower levels of intelligence are easy to provoke, lack rationality and can't control animal inhibitions. Why do cartoon offend them? Because they are simplistic. Why don't they understand the real meanings of the cartoons? They don't have the capacity to rationalize them. Again Darwin, different cultures move at different rates.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 02:00 by AHz @ : Perspective
I guess I can see why the pictures are thought to be offensive. First of all, many (not all) forms of Islam believe that it is an abomination to depict Muhammad in any form. Secondly, you don't need much of an imagination to see that depicting him as a devil or with a bomb in his turbin is offensive (still the one about running out of virgins was pretty fucking funny). Nonetheless, the fact of the matter is that even before these pictures most Muslims prayed for the downfall of the west, and the destruction of the United States and Israel if not the anahilation of the Jewish people as whole. Not all Muslims hope for these things but many, probably a majority do. There are many Muslims who practice their religion the way it was intended all and all it is a peaceful religion at its core. Islam did not become a violent threat untill the relitively recent resurgence of the Whabbi school, the brand of Islam that does promote Jihad against the West and Terrorism. For hundreds of years, before this school began to become pervasive and perhaps even dominant in the mindset of the Muslim world as a whole Muslims lived peacefully along side Jews and Christains. Perspective is important, all we can do as Jews, Christians, Bhuddists, Hindus, athiests,agnostics and especially level headed Muslims is combat the terrorist threat and the threat that radical will consume the muslim world by educating people about Islam the way it was written and intended to be practiced and not the form that it been manipulated into.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 02:29 by B Randall @ : kidding me
I heard all the controversy, and I see the cartoon. Offensive, maybe. But the response to it underlines the cartoon itself. Any free country and ENLIGHTENED country as described here will have a free press. If you dont like it, tell them. But when the "offended" persons/people decide to become violent they validate the damned thing. How many cartoons depicting catholocism or christianity do we see across the globe daily? And movies, pictures and stories that put those in bad taste? So many it cant be counted. But now the world should shutter at the thought of upsetting those who are followers of Muhammad? The same countries that allow free press will see you are upset merely by those letting them know without the use of violence. And if there is enough pressure, those persons individually who put that on print will lose their jobs forever making it a no no. Meanwhile, have a sense of humor would you? Because the way it looks now, those who are advocating the extreme for a stupid drawing are feeding into it. Nice job. Meanwhile, look into Monty Python for religious poor tasted humor. You didnt see (and dont see) catholics, prodestants and christians rising up calling for England to do something.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 02:35 by The Truth @ : Bullshit
The Arabs became terrorists because they couldn't fight a conventional war. Their armies were a joke, just a mob on horses. They started after WWI and Britain and France devided the region into spheres of influence. The Arabs rebeled and got their asses kicked all over when the French and Brits put napalm to its first good use in Damascas and Bahgdad. When WWII started, the arabs naturally leaned to the Nazis, but the British wacked the Iranian monarch and put their own in place rather than screw around with him. Iran was their supply line to Southern Russia. Little Israel kicked their ass repeatedly after WWII and threatened to annax all the way to Damascas. The mistake of de-colonizing the region and allowing them to nationalize their own and only resource, oil lead to terrorism. Oil money funds terrorism. Take away the oil money and they are reduced to the as far as they can throw a rock.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 02:52 by MacG @ : Whay offensive
I personally don't find them offensive(the virgin one is especially good:) but I guess most of you don't understand the reason people got offended.
It has nothing to do with what the cartoons say...majority of the people protesting them haven't seen them i bet. The thing is drawing Mohammed is considered offensive so the reason that they were published is the reason why people are offended.

The thing I found offensive is that the editor of the newspaper knew this and this is why he wanted the cartoons from the artists. They were published to offend people make muslims riot (cause that's what they do, why they do it is another subject of course) And create this whole anti-muslim propaganda.

Now the first time they were published(september) didn't make so much noise so they pushed it further again.Now that they got what they wanted, empowering the hatred between muslims and non-muslims they apoligised.

Come on now did it take 5 months for you to see that people really and sincerely got offended? What proof do you need to see that you offended them?

And if you ask my opinion drawing Mohammed is not offensive.And of course should not be offensive. But check the one which shows an artist drawing Mohammed and he is scared. (an artist should not be scared of doing his art of course.) But they knew what would happen and they got the result they wanted in the first place.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 03:31 by quasar @ : the holocaust
I heard that an Iran newspaper is having a holocaust cartoon contest. You know who's gonna riot about that. No one! The middle east needs to work on their PR skills  

8 Feb 2006 @ 05:29 by sam @ : cartoons
these were cartoons - the protests around the world are unwarranted as are the words above about hating and killing. we're not getting any closer to living peacefully together by condemning each other in a blog. it's a shame that these protests are bringing out the worst in people - be them muslim or christiam (or any other religion - wouldn't want to offend anyone by leaving them out). it's also unfortunate that these protests make muslims look bad - and we don't need a history/commentary about people having nothing. there are many unbelievably poor people in latin america and they protest against their government not against others.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 06:43 by rick @ : send em to mars
im sick of all you religious freaks who claim to know the mind of god.lets send all the religious people to mars,muslims,christians and jews get on board...get the fuck off gods planet,you don't know shit about anything....humans are fucked. p.s. there is a god but you dont know fuck all about him....probly is a her,,,and she probly looks like jessica alba.......mmmm jessica.....i think im gonna go spill some seed and piss of the  

8 Feb 2006 @ 06:44 by bdidy @ : stuff
personally i am going to protest the protesters. i am going to counteract their boycott with the my own boycott. that's right from this point on the only sand i purchase will be from a non-islamic based sand company. i'm sorry it had to come to this.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 07:29 by Rick @ : More thoughts
Lets look at a stellar example of something 'blasphemous; to Christianity: Monty Python's

"Life of Brian" ...

Google search commenceth ...

1The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops rates it as "Morally Offensive"
"A movie about a hapless fellow named Brian, a contemporary of Jesus, who is mistaken for

the Messiah and eventually crucified by the Romans. The nihilistic, anything-for-laughs

thrust of director Terry Jones's comedy deliberately exploits much that is sacred to

Christian and Jewish religious tradition. Especially offensive is the mocking parody of

the crucifixion scene."

2Jack Mathethws, Daily News Entertainment writes "When Monty Python's "Life of

Brian" reached America's shores in the fall of 1979, one of the many religious leaders

offended by it here made the astonishing claim that religious satire is not covered by

the First Amendment. Others worried that it would trigger violence among angered

Christians and Jews.

Nevertheless, the movie was viewed — uncensored — by millions of satisfied customers,

without provoking either a constitutional crisis or reported instances of stonings.


But as passionate as some people get over perceived offenses to their faith, there really

is room under the First Amendment for irreverence and satire, and most of us are agreed

on that. The only way humor can hurt you is if you split a gut. With "Life of Brian,"

that's a possibility."

3 Welease Bwianon provides an edited extract of Always Look on the Bright Side

of Life by Robert Sellers " was decided to open Life of Brian first in America,

where freedom of speech and religious choice is enshrined in the constitution. Or so it

was thought. Life of Brian received its world premiere in New York on August 17 1979, the

same week as Apocalypse Now and The Muppet Movie.

The opening salvo in what became a heated and often surreal religious war of words

arrived on August 19 from Rabbi Abraham Hecht, president of the Rabbinical Alliance of

America, who claimed to speak for half a million Jews. Speaking in Variety, he declared,

"Never have we come across such a foul, disgusting, blasphemous film before." Hecht went

on to make public his view that Brian "was produced in hell".

The voice of Protestant protest belonged to Robert EA Lee of the Lutheran Council, whose

tirade against Brian - "crude and rude mockery, colossal bad taste, profane parody. A

disgraceful assault on religious sensitivity" - was broadcast across 1,000 radio


Not to be outdone, the Catholic film-monitoring office rated Brian "C" for "Condemned"

and implored its flock not to visit theatres where it was playing, it being a sin to do


Naturally, the protests and marches only served to heighten Brian's media profile and

so increase its box-office take. Nothing sells better than when it comes attached to the

whiff of notoriety. When the shit started hitting the fan Stateside, the original

plan to open Brian on 200 screens nationwide snowballed to nearer 600. [Italics mine


"They have actually made me rich," Cleese ribbed on an American chat show. "I feel we

should send them a crate of champagne."

When Life of Brian opened across Britain in the new year, the battle lines altered

dramatically and Python became a victim of regional censorship. "There was a loophole in

the law," Palin recalls. "Local authorities had power over certain cinemas through health

regulations, and they used this extraordinary clause to ban Monty Python because it was

unhealthy. I don't know if they thought it would spread diseases in cinemas."

Life of Brian ended up being banned in Harrogate, parts of Surrey, east Devon (where

councillors refused even to watch it, arguing, "You don't have to see a pigsty to know

that it stinks") and Cornwall (where, after one screening, a local councillor rather

overstated the case by arguing for all the participants in the film to be locked up in


4 Peter Johnson of writes "An American Lutheran spokesman described the film

as ‘crude and rude mockery, … profane parody [and] overt and perverse sacrilege.’ The

interfaith anti-pornography organisation Morality in Media described it as an ‘outrage’

and a Catholic monsignor condemned the film as ‘an act of blasphemy’. Coarse language and

some nude scenes added insult to injury.

In Australia, however, Dean Chamberlin took a distinctly different approach from his

American brethren. In his view, the film was ‘in no real sense a parody of the life of

Christ’. Life of Brian was ‘irreverent throughout, tasteless in parts, frequently

amusing, but, in my view, is not blasphemous. It appears to me that the reaction to the

film has been excessive in some quarters.’ Peter Gould, reviewing the film in Sydney’s

Catholic Weekly, came to similar conclusions. Chamberlin advised readers against seeing

Life of Brian, but noted specifically that the reasons for this recommendation were

‘tastelessness and irreverence, not … blasphemy.

Lesley Hicks, an Anglican columnist and regular supporter of Festival causes, joined in

by reproducing a list of damning American reviews of the film: ‘the foulest-spoken

Biblical epic ever made’, ‘the most vicious piece of blasphemy I have seen’ etc. She

approvingly quoted Mother Basilea Schlink, another AFOL supporter, to the effect that

Christians could not ‘remain silent in the face of the defamation, disgrace and blasphemy

God is made to suffer."

5 On 2 Jan 2006, readers of "The Scottsman" newpaper just voted MONTY Python's Life of Brian as the greatest comedy film of all time. It beat the 1980 movie Airplane! into second place."

1. It's been two decades since this movie, life went on and the world kept spinning.
2. It is HARD to support concepts of free speech when you really don't like the

3. Protests backfire, especially when based on narrowmindedness.
4. Protests fail utterly when based on murder.
5. Fiction is ... FICTION!.

For all those who want to drop nukes (figuratively or literally) I think of 1 Peter 15-16 "For it is God's will that by doing right you should silence the ignorance of the foolish. As servants of God, live as free people, yet do not use your freedom as a pretext for evil".

One last thing. The hardest thing about Christianity for me is from 1 Cor 13 "Therefore, if food is a cause of their falling, I will never eat meat, so that I may not cause one of them to fall".

What is this? I have to be so considerate of others that I cannot do what I know is good if I think it will cause another to sin? How can I do that! I have my individual rights! Oh yea, I keep forgetting something. It is the "I" in me that must die before "I" can then live in Christ. Does this mean I really loose my individuality? Not at all, not at all.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 08:07 by daniel @ : AttN: MRS HAGGIS-EATER


RE: Muslim Cleric jailed 7 yrs.

I believe this is the worst thing the British authorities has done, well, and surprisingly, to Non-muslims. You said the cleric is a suicide bomber, he is not. And you missed one point. The people that pushed for the blind cripple's arrest and subsequent trial were of course other muslim clerics, and many muslims were said to have testified against him during the trial.

Why then is his arrest and trial then a disaster to non-muslims? Because of course this man's preachings was based on exactly what was in the Qouran. By going public with the laws in the quoran about hatred and violence serves to remind us non-muslims what islam stands for. By telling other muslims to kill and bomb and destroy non-muslims makes non-muslims to be aware of the dangers of what the Quoran preaches. Witness the fact that the London Bombings took place after the clerics arrest, I believe if he were still a free man and continued his preachings the London Police would have been more vigilant and probably would have thwarted the evil efforts of the bombers.

The Muslim Cleric Imam Abu Hamza was indeed a true prophet of Allah and he taught the TRUE WORDS of the Quoran, he taught what islam stood for, what the Quoran promise for those muslim believers that carried out Allah's wish. By in-prisoning him the British authorities have done a great disfavor to non-muslims, particularly those that are about to convert to islam. What's more the freedom of speech and the freedom to preach the true words of Imam Abu Hamza's religion has been violated.

Imam Abu Hamza: you are being persecuted for telling people the truth, for telling them what your Holy book says, but never worry "The truth shall set u Free, dude!"  

8 Feb 2006 @ 08:15 by Aziz A @ : the prophet Mohammad
Mohammad is a prophet and massanger sent by God to make peace, justice and worshiping of one God domenant people. He prevented killing, theft, lying, offencing etc.Also he advised Moslims to respect other religions and prophets. So he doesnt deserve to be treated as a bad man through drawings or speech. Some Muslim people may interpret the directions given by the Holy Kuran wrongly, however it is not fair to treat all Muslims and their prophet badly.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 08:29 by Jew @ : 3 happiness
My recipe for world peace (grandma's old cookbook)
1) Extradict palestinians to their homecountry Gaza to join their Hamas buddies.
If anybody throws more bombs at Jews torch the Gaza with napalm.
2) Blow the Iran nukelar sites to shit
3) Load the rest of arabs on the spaceships and send them to the moon  

8 Feb 2006 @ 09:00 by Rick @ : Question for Daniel
Daniel, from wikipedia I learn:

"One of the six basic beliefs shared by all Muslims are of the the books (kutub) sent by God:
The Suhuf-i-Ibrahim (Scrolls of Abraham)
The Tawrat sent to Musa (Moses)
The Zabur sent to Daud (David)
The Injil sent to Isa (Jesus)
The Qur'an sent to Muhammad"

And regarding other religions that "The Qur'an contains injunctions to respect other religions. It also asks the followers to fight and subdue unbelievers in times of war and "evict them whence they evicted you" (Al-Qur'an 2:191). Some Muslims have respected Jews and Christians as fellow "peoples of the book" (monotheists following Abrahamic religions), while others have reviled them as having abandoned monotheism and corrupted their scriptures. At different times and places, Islamic communities have been both intolerant and tolerant.

The classical Islamic solution was a limited tolerance — Jews and Christians were to be allowed to privately practice their faith and follow their own family law. They were called Dhimmis, and they had fewer legal rights and obligations than Muslims.

The classic Islamic state was often more tolerant than many other states of the time, which insisted on complete conformity to a state religion. The record of contemporary Muslim-majority states is mixed. Some are generally regarded as tolerant, while others have been accused of intolerance and human rights violations. See the main article, Islam and other religions, for further discussion."

The most recent online Times artical,,2-2030129,00.html states "The charges against Abu Hamza, a father of seven, were based on hours of videotapes of his sermons. He urged training for holy war, told congregations that the Holocaust and Hitler were sent from God to punish the Jews and repeatedly urged the killing of kuffars (non-believers). “There is no drop of liquid that is loved by Allah more than the liquid of blood,” he preached."

In this artical are short audio clips one where he identifies 5 enemies of Islam:
1. Tyrants and apostates of our leaders
2. Jews
3. Christians
4. Evil [something] of muslims (sorry, I could not understand it)
5. Hypocrites
6. Ignorance of our Ummah

What I hear in this clip is consistent with the charges stated and inconsistent with injunctions to respect other religions. How can Abu Hamza be teaching Truth?  

8 Feb 2006 @ 11:47 by Drew @ : Dark Forces Yes anonimous
These dark forces of the spirit world are behind all of this crap!! It is prophsied in the bible for there to be a king of the North and a king of the South (Europe and the Arabs) and they are prophsied to be at odds with one another even leading to world war three!!! But to think that these cartoons could be used by the evil spirit world to help accomplish this is amazaing. Just wait till the SLEEPING GIANT of The Counterfit Christian Catholic religion rears it't ugly head with GERMANY at the helm (we all know that these people don't play around!!!) Unlike when hitler tried ( HE fought europe this time all of europe will be with the Germans) and then all these muslims will get a taste of there BLITZKRIG. Watch for it!!! GOD is Love Amen!  

8 Feb 2006 @ 11:57 by Drew @ : What better way
What better way for the sleeping giant to be awoken that to have to pull together to protect themselve from this devastating scurge called Islam!  


8 Feb 2006 @ 13:05 by MOHAMME EISA (JESUS) MUSA (MOSES) @ : EVEN U???!!! DENMARK??!!!
its time to wake up all MUSLIMS in the world. the jews controll the euorpean now they forgot the hitler. now u'll c millions of hitlers but Muslim. remember we MUSLIMS never ever kill the children, elders, civils, women but any1 who agree that pic no way on the earth n paradise as the ONE in HOLLAND a couple month ago who was filmed the abusing of that MUSLIM WOMEN's (who covered like MOTHER MARIAM-Jesus's mom- May Allah peace be upon them).
so im ready now to kill the who created tht pic n whoever followed. cos im boring this life without tasting of PARADISE so now ICAN SMELL IN killing whole DANISH newspaper's STAFFS with their followers.

8 Feb 2006 @ 13:29 by OH DENMARK DONT DIE IN ANGER @ : POOR DINISH, U SAW THE.....

8 Feb 2006 @ 13:59 by A Dane @ : Denmark

8 Feb 2006 @ 14:23 by DEFCON1 @ : stupidity
Its amazing how all this is sparked by one cartoon. Whats more amazing and equally stupid is that some of these protestors are shouting out "die America" and "Bin Laden Is alive" when the whole protest was supposed to be about the cartoon. If muslims act like this all it does is confirm alot the western world that muslims are just a lot of savages with 15th century ideals.

Its ok for muslims (iranians for example) to depict jewish children being eaten because of theyre hatred for the people of israel, but when a western nation draws a picture of muhammed there all up in arms. So the muslims can dish it out but they cant take it themselves. In my opinion the general muslim populace would rather NOT have freedom of information, speech e.t.c and would want nothing more than to have every nation a muslim state with islamic rules and regulations (sharia law) e.t.c. The solution? Send all these muslim trouble makers packing, throw them on and island and let them destroy each other and whoevers left, cut theyre hands off and make them eat it.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 14:37 by muhammeds ass @ : Check this out
"5 Feb 2006 @ 13:00 by STEVE @ : moHAMmed
I'll be tolerant of islam when i see a church built in Mecca. Our tolerance is seen as a weakness by these madmen. Every mosque should be considered a trojan horse"- some guy on this blog.

DAmn right!!!! Even the vatican has a mosque!! John Paul asked for i to be built. Now thats what i call tolerance, the leader of the catholic church building a mosque in his own backyard! I'd like to see you muslims do something tolerant like that instead of parading around like you have such a great religion. Your religion is just full of hatred and violance towards anything unmuslim, your religion stinks.

BTW I read from a book on Islam (ill give the source when i find it again) that these suicide bombers actually misinterpret the "72 virgins" crap when you die in the name of allah. According to this book ist meant to be 72 sultanas! HAHAHA!!!!  

8 Feb 2006 @ 15:08 by mishka @ : stupid muslims
muslims want us to respect them. but for what? they are so stupid and violent.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 15:09 by vibrani : The biggest joke is
that Muslims think words can hurt God. Nothing can hurt God.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 15:22 by caroline @ : saddam hussin
saddam hussin was good for muslims. he knew how to treat them. WITH BRUTALITY!  

8 Feb 2006 @ 15:26 by Rick @ : Biggest joke
Couldn't agree more, vavrani. Sometimes it's the simplist insight that cuts to the core.

It's humans that are totally missing the point, surely not God!  

8 Feb 2006 @ 15:32 by Rick @ : Biggest joke, part duex
side note ...

What I read in many blogs from Muslims, Christians, others is apparently a position that words cannot hurt God either. I actually think that's not true this damanges at least one side of our relationship with God ... our side.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 15:34 by vibrani : Well, Rick
people tend to assign human traits to God, think God is a man, vulnerable - yeah, sure, the creator of the universes and all life is a wimp with an ego problem! Put his hands on his hips and stomp out in a tearful hissy fit because of a cartoon. hahahaha Or that some prophet will be offended. If people would get their heads out of their dogma, and their asses, they might get a clue. Then they might not have to go around hurting and killing people in God's name.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 16:58 by hitler @ : fuck these stupid people
every last one of you ignorant fucking muslim people hear this:what tha fuck is youre problem.are you really that stupid,do ya really want to start a war for youre FUCKING belives?how low can you go?we should just drop a bomb,and make mall`s all over tha place.turn theire crappy country`s into big parking spaces.they really dont deserve all tha help and supply`es they get from the western country`s.we should just give them enough bullets and rifles so they would kill each other instead.maybe one day we can all just live in harmony,without these sick sick peolpe.THE WORLD NEEDS ANOTHER HITLER!  

8 Feb 2006 @ 17:03 by F.R. @ : Islam is creating conflict
I can see the day when Western countries will ban muslims from entering and banning the Muslim religion from Western countries. Its sad that we cannot all
see each other as just human beings with love and respect.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 17:07 by vibrani : The day has come a long time ago
when Muslim countries banned non-Muslims! Muslims spend so much of their time hurting and murdering each other. Why can't Muslims ever see themselves?

The one thing the world doesn't need is another Hitler.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 17:10 by ZIM @ : dope
So you are defending the freedom of speech by killing all muslims.
Because when the the terrorists kill innocent people you blame islam.
When muslims speak their minds you say they are all insane and you pick every each one of the muslims (like hitler to jews) and kill them and this is your understanding of freedom of speech????

No!!!! I support everyones right to free speech its the violence and destruction im against...Muslims are not seeking free speech young man they want revenge and death to non muslims dude listen to what theyre saying in the streets  

8 Feb 2006 @ 17:10 by F.R. @ : Let God be God
I say let God be God and people be people and God will take care of itself.

The world needs love.......  

8 Feb 2006 @ 17:23 by Al @ : response to mohamme eisa
you say muslims never kill woman and children but you must have missed the last few years of current affairs.From Al-quada in iraq to palastinians killing a mother and family in their car in israel last year,Yes and I know the yankee coalition has killed many innocents,but dont talk out your arse and try ,to be balanced.Every death is sad who ever it is and by whom ever it was done by,and if your in search of paradise then kindly just kill yourself without killing any one else.....oh sorry thats a great sin in Islam is it.Listen to some of the more enlightened people of your religion and try not to show that you are an un-educated moron from what seems to be out of space.If paradise is so great it makes me wonder why some of you guys continue breathing?  

8 Feb 2006 @ 17:30 by Geoff @ : to daniel on abu hamza
I hope hamza likes a full english brekky in jail, with cumberland sausage and danish bacon,maybe a smidge of english mustard as well....Lovely  

8 Feb 2006 @ 17:35 by vibrani : What do people have to gain
by destroying this planet? If we don't take care of it, it won't be here in the future, it won't sustain us today. If this escalates any further, we will have nuclear war. Is this what everyone wants? Come on. I have good friends who are married to each other - one is Jewish and the other a Muslim and they have a beautiful relationship for over 20 years. You have to walk your talk. It's not enough to say "my religion means peace" or whatever. One has to live it.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 17:39 by ZIM @ : Mulims
Mohammad is a prophet and massanger sent by God to make peace, justice and worshiping of one God domenant people. He prevented killing, theft, lying, offencing etc.Also he advised Moslims to respect other religions and prophets. So he doesnt deserve to be treated as a bad man through drawings or speech. Some Muslim people may interpret the directions given by the Holy Kuran wrongly, however it is not fair to treat all Muslims and their prophet badly.

You know I see a lot of Muslims defending Islam...

first off

Mohamed "the prophet"

its historically recorded by muslims that he
raided caravans
had a # of people killed including members of his own family
fought over money and territory

hmm some messiah.....

but forget that if you guys are saying "Hey Zim 99.9% of us are not like that" then why dont you do more to fight it you just sit back on your camels shaking your fingers saying "oh we condem terrorism but those people got what they deserve Muslim peoples and especially governments are barely making a token effort to stem violence while on the other hand theyre funding it secretly... if Islam is so peacful and good why arent all muslims openly condeming it and fighting it? maybe because you really want it to continue? or your afraid if you speak up youll get your head sawed off? or because you just cant stand people that are different then you... if things continue down this road it will be war.... and in a fight of feedom VS Islam Islam will lose  

8 Feb 2006 @ 17:42 by reha @ : answer to bushman
Dear Bushman

Your history knowledge is very weak or I would say you have no idea about what had happened here about the Armenians. It is totally insane to claim that it was a genoside due to religion. All three religions have been living together in peace having the same and equal rights here since the foundation of the Ottoman empire. Before you Europeans had even no idea about justice, equity etc we had it here in the year 1300 . We still have mosques churches and sinagogs laying next to each other since so many centuries.

About the Armenians : they were our citizens for centuries and they cooperated with the enemy( Russians) during the first world war and it was them who attacked our army from behind and massacred our soldiers. They also attacked our villages and killed the villagers of other ethnicity than Armenians. Therefore the government decided to relocate them from East Anatolia to Middle East. Armenians had been repelled many more times in Anatolia before us as well. I think the Romans must also have had similar problems with them.

Just to correct your history knowledge !  

8 Feb 2006 @ 17:57 by no religion too @ : my god's better than your god

8 Feb 2006 @ 18:04 by zim @ : turks
I think the turkish schools left those incidents out of thier history books
just go on google and look up greek genocide or armenian Genocide.. they have pictures and everything  

8 Feb 2006 @ 18:07 by DixieGirl @ : Mohammed cartoons
Hey - out there! All you ragheads! GET A LIFE! It's just a damn cartoon, for God's sake (excuse me, for Allah's sake). Lighten up! Go fuck a camel !  

8 Feb 2006 @ 18:20 by reha @ : mosque in vatikan answer to steve
Dear Steve,

We have here in Istanbul mosques,churches and sinagogs next to each since 6 centuries and there has been no problem between the 3 religions . Everybody has his own religion and can practice it as he wishes. You have mosques there in Europe since only very recently. I can't remember one there in the year 1400's. Do you ?  

8 Feb 2006 @ 18:37 by bushman : Well, see
thats my point. When my family came to the USA, they had already been thru whats going on in the middle east now. Regaurdless of how the ottomans look at it, the first Armenians to come to USA, ran from what they called genocide. Some ran to white russia. Anyway, my grandparents, came to the USA, and became citizens, took my grandma 3 years to become fluent in english she was 14 then. The story she told us about the gencide was that her and her sisters shaved thier heads so they would look like boys, a british officer found them hideing in stacks of dead bodies, took them to a safe house, then they got roled up in a carpet, and some how made it to elis island in a hold of a ship. My grandma was from a city called Hajincy or hajin, and my grandpa was from Tarsus Turkey, he was a spy for Greece. They met in an aranged marriage. Anyway my point was that when you move to a new country, you do as they do, regaurdless of religion or language. This dosnt mean throw out your belifes. We know it was all in the past, we know some of the history has been twisted or ommited, but the fact that some Armenians saw the situation as ethnic cleansing and genocide. They arnt useing it now as a weapon. They never taught us grandkids the language, because they spoke 3 different languages mixed, persian and turkish and armenian. I'm an american, I like to think I'm native american since I was born here. I would say that writen history in this case, is not the real story, just from the stories past down, during that time, I cant imagin the terror my grandma faced running thru hacked up bodies of her friends and neighbors, she had said that the turks came in and killed anyone that had converted to christian. I think I will believe the history that has been passed down before the history writen by the victors. My family has been involved in world goverment since the begining, so as your history maybe right in some ways, you dont know the half that lurks in the shadows, as well as I do. Any army that attacks citizens is criminal, in my book. But it was the behind the scenes espiange that made things as they are today. Like I said, you don't see Armenians shooting up the place and burning stuff, you don't see them whinning for some memorial that the whole world must bow to. I supose there are some with hate in thier hearts still. If it hadnt been for the british, my family would not exist today. And to think my grandmas mom, was the decan of the greek orthodox church in Hajin. It is and was all about religion as far as I can tell, the rest, is deep dark NWO agents manipulating whole religions, into self destruction. Just my oppinion. :}  

8 Feb 2006 @ 18:40 by Some French dude.. @ : Turkey
Reha, I agree that Turkey is by far the most modern muslim country... but the Ottaman Empire was hardly a place of religious tolerance :p

"When Turks conquered Istanbul in 1453, the first thing Mehmed "the Conqueror" did was to order the conversion of the church [Hagia Sophia]into a mosque. Because he believed that this was written in Holy Koran that Istanbul should be conquered and turned to be an Islamic Land. From then on, the Church served as a great mosque, with four minarets added in different periods."

.. but at least, now it's a museum you can visit (unlike Mecca for example) which is good.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 18:45 by Dr. Shred @ : Mohammed cartoons
What I find interesting is that the vast majority of Americans don’t know that the United States is the largest exporter of state sponsored terrorism in the world. Here are a few examples:

The overthrow of Premier Mossadeq of IRAN November 1952-August 1953 by the CIA


See also the book “All the Shah's Men : An American Coup and the Roots of Middle East Terror” by Stephen Kinzer

Mossadeq’s “crime” was he wanted to nationalize the oil industry in Iran so the people of Iran could benefit from their own natural resources. Great Britain’s oil industry didn’t like this so they asked the U.S. to take out Mossadeq and put the Mohammad Reza Pahlavi in power. The rest, as they say, is history.

The overthrow of Salvador Allende of the U.S. Sponsored Coup, September 11, 1973 in Chile. Allenda’s “crime” was that he wanted to nationalize the copper industry so the people of Chile could benefit from their own natural resources. The U.S. copper industry didn’t like this so they asked the U.S. to take out Allende and put General Augusto Pinochet Ugarte in power. The rest, as they say, is history.


Central American genocide: “Year in and year out confirmed reports are published of the torture, enslavement and murder of Indians in Central and South America--almost 10,000 dead and "disappeared" annually in Guatemala alone during much of the 1980s, the proportional equivalent of more than 300,000 Americans deaths each year--virtually all of it carried out with the complicity of the United States government.”

It’s not just in Guatemala but Costa Rica, Honduras, Nicaragua El Salvador. Many of the right wing paramilitary leaders were trained at the U.S. Army’s School of the Americas where students are trained in

“...counterinsurgency, military intelligence, interrogation techniques, sniper fire, infantry and commando tactics, "irregular" and psychological warfare, jungle operations, among the most bellicose specialties. But Latin American soldiers at the SOA are not always trained to defend their borders from foreign invasion. They are taught--at US taxpayers' expense--to make war against their own people, to subvert the truth, silence poets, domesticate unruly visionaries, muzzle activist clergy, hinder trade unionism, hush the voices of dissidence and discontent, neutralize the poor, the hungry, the dispossessed, extinguish common dreams, irrigate fields of plenty with the tears of a captive society, and transform paladins and protesters into submissive vassals. Even if it kills them.”


The people of Central America’s “crime” was that they wanted to benefit from their own natural resources have decent working conditions and a decent life. The big fruit companies in the U.S. and Great Britain didn’t like it so ...

East Timor “The scale of the human tragedy in East Timor defies belied. Since Indonesia invaded East Timor in 1975, 200,000 East Timorese have been killed by the Indonesian military or have fallen victim to starvation and disease.
That’s a third of the total population. "Ever since President Gerald Ford and Secretary of State Henry Kissinger gave general Suharto the green light to invade East Timor in 1975, America has turned a blind eye to Jakarta’s human rights abuses while providing more than $1 billion worth of weaponry and millions more in military aid and training."

There are more examples, but why bother?

So now you wonder why they hate us?  

8 Feb 2006 @ 19:27 by reha @ : The religion in the Ottoman time
Dear French Dude , I agree that Fatih converted Hagia Sophia into a mosque which I also believe was a mistake to cover up and hence to destroy those wonderful pictures , tables etc because they were Christian symbols. But I think Ataturk corrected that error to a certain degree by converting it into a museum and cleaning up the plaster over the Christian symbols and recovering them back as much as possible.

On the other hand the population in the empire contained a very high percentage of Christians and there had always been a lot of churches all throughout the empire , mainly concentrated in Istanbul. Most of them are still being used and you can visit them and pray there whenever you want. Some of them are not being used any more since we don't have so many Christians any more.

Nobody had never been under any sort of pressure due to his religion or etnicity here in the last 6 centuries. Just on the contrary people under pressure due to region or ethnicity in any part of this geography had escaped to Turkey ( eg : Spanish jews , jews escaping from Hitler , nations in Caucasians after Russian invasion including my own family , kurds escaping from Saddam )  

8 Feb 2006 @ 19:42 by Some French Dude @ : ..Reha
"Some of them are not being used any more since we don't have so many Christians any more."
"Nobody had never been under any sort of pressure due to his religion or etnicity here in the last 6 centuries"
Sounds a bit contracdictory in my opinion...

While I do agree that Turkey is a tolerant country today, mainly because it's a SECULAR society (thanks to Ataturk like you said),I don't think the Ottoman Empire, which tried to invade Europe and nearly took Vienna (that's NOT muslim land, I hope you agree !) was a model of religious tolerance and peace...  

8 Feb 2006 @ 19:50 by vibrani : More like
by the sword, French Dude.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 19:54 by ZIM @ : Constantinople
I wasnt there but I have read that the turks murdered a lot of greeks and forcibly removed others, still others were made to pay heavy taxes... but all and all I think Turkey along with Jordan, Morroco and Tunesia shouldnt be perceived the same way as the rest of the muslim countries it would be nice if they did more  

8 Feb 2006 @ 20:02 by Some French Dude @ : ...
I agree with you ZIM, btw Malaysia is also a modern muslim country.

What disturbs me a little in Reha's posts is that she seems unwilling to admit that the Ottoman Empire is, far from being an example to follow, one of the worst examples of a murderous, imperialistic society in the name of Islam expansion... most civilazations did the same (Mongols, Christians, etc...), but it disturbs me where I hear that somehow Islam is different (that "hollier than thou" attitude again is ennerving)  

8 Feb 2006 @ 20:07 by reha @ : Armenian issue
I'd like to start by correcting one thing about this issue. There is no relation between the reason of the deportage of the Armenians and their religion. If we had not wanted them only because they were Christians why do we still have numerous Armenian churches here in Turkey. If we had killed them only because of their ethnicity what was the reason that the Armenians in Istanbul were in many respectful duties in the state ( eg doctors, state officers ( even in the ministries and army ) while the ones in the Eastern Anatolia were being deported. Because they helped the Russians in the war and hence betrayed their own state they had been a citizen of since centuries. I am not saying that what had happened was nice but we were not the one to start this war in the first place. We suffered much much more than the Armenians in this war. We lost millions of our citizens , soldiers , our empire, and even our country. It was not an easy war. The party on power at that time decided to deport the Armenians for the security of our Army there since we had more than enough problem fighting against the Russians and the attack of the Armenians, our citizens ,from behind was far too much to handle for our army which was also fighting in many other fronts with the English , Arabs ( our dear muslim brothers who were on the English side !!! ) , French , italians., Australians , etc. I am not defending that Party ( Ittihat ve Terakki ) since most of the decisions they took was a disaster for us. But it was all history and better to analysed and decided by the history scientists.

About the web page of the Armenians about what they call as genocide : We have freedom of speech . Everybody can express their opinions as they wish. But they that does not necessarily mean that all thoso expressed opinions are 100% correct !! This is typical western again . listening only to one side and giving a decision. prejudice ! There are no evidence there about the villagers massacred , the soldiers attacked from behind and killed by the Armenians.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 20:08 by ZIM @ : first born
lets not forget the ottomons for centuries stole the first born child in Christian families of the Balkans to serve as Janissaries

I think Indonesia however has a large population of Muslims that are violent and warlike ... on the news thats one of the countries where big cartoon protests are held  

8 Feb 2006 @ 20:13 by Some French Dude @ : Armenians...
Reha, you have 100% free speech here :-) have the right to deny the holocaust of the Armenians (and Greeks, Cypriotes, etc...) by the Turks during the last century... you have the right to try to justify mass murder of a whole people by military strategy, or the usual "they started it " excuse, etc...

However, please understand that you lose most of your credibility in the process...  

8 Feb 2006 @ 20:18 by A Dane @ : to reha
Reha you wrote,
What western country’s was that? And - why are millions and millions of your muslim friends going to Europe if it’s so good in TURKEY.
Glad to see people there can protest in a civilized manner.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 20:34 by reha @ : Ottoman imperialism
Dear Franch dude ,

What Ottomans did is not much different than what the Americans are doing now. We had the power at that time and were able to expand due mainly for imperialistic reasons. I do not think it is the right thing but unfortunately we are not the first one who did it and USA will not be last one . Yes we unfortunately had to do it with our swords as vibrani said since we did not have atomic bombs at that time. Therefore our task was much more difficult that the Americans. They are lucky ! that they obtain the results much faster with todays technology ! But I still insist Ottoman empire was by far the most tolerant empire of the world history if you consider the conditions of that time and compare it with the other states at the same time. Otherwise how could it survive for 624 years with a structure of almost 100 ethnicities , 3 religions and their related sub groups ( Sunni . Sii , Alevi , orthodox, catholic etc) . Can you imagine a muslim society living in any state in europe 5-6 centuries ago and having exactly the same and equal rights as the Christian society there!  

8 Feb 2006 @ 20:39 by Some French Dude @ : ...very typical
Yeah, ok...

phase 1 : we didn't do it !
phase 2 : we did it after all, but it was the right thing to do
phase 3 : we did it and it wasn't then right thing to do after all, but other do it too ...
phase 4 : ... is somebody still listening ?  

8 Feb 2006 @ 20:45 by reha @ : answer to the Dane
I have been many times in all the European countries except Denmark, the Scandinavian countries , Spain and Portugal. My personal opinion is that none of them has any advantage against my country to live there as long as you can have a job here. I think the major reason for our citizens to prefer to live there is economical. If they were able to find a good job here, I don't beleive they would insist to stay there. They all return as soon as they retire anyway. I personally would never ever think of leaving Turkey since I luckily have a good profession and earn enough to continue my life here.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 20:56 by reha @ : French history
We have not forgotten by the way the imperialism of the French and their polite treatment to North Africans and how jealous they are since they cannot do it anymore because USA has the power to do it now.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 21:03 by Some French Dude @ : ... another lie !
Reha : "They all return as soon as they retire anyway."

... so I guess the fact that cities like Evry or Epinay (near Paris) are packed with 3 generations of muslims who apparently hate us with a raging passion (even though we never did anything to them, except providing them with job opportunities and/or welfare) is from my imagination.

In France we have a stupid law called "regroupement familial" btw and it's the stupidest thing ever :
1 : some guy from, say turkey, enters France illegally
2 : he is employed illegally by someone so that the employer doesn't have to pay taxes
3 : liberal activists demonstrate in the streets (block public transportation in the process, but it's out of topic :) ) to "legalize" those poor illegal immigrants
4 : the guy from Turkey finally gets French citizenship or a long term residency right
5 : the "regroupement familial" law allows him to BRING ALL HIS FAMILY LEGALLY TO FRANCE

.. now that wouldn't be so bad after all if these people were willing to respect France... but after burning 10.000+ cars in 3 weeks last november because police VERY rightly ran after some kid who was stupid enough to hide in a power substation, I just wish it *were* true that they go home for retirement!  

8 Feb 2006 @ 21:07 by MacG @ : ottoman imperialism
I don't understand one thing about the criticism of Ottoman's imperialism for instance saying they were trying to conquer Vienna.That was centuries ago and I don't hear you comparing it with United Kingdom or France or other countries that had the same Imperialistic politics. Was it any different what they did with the colonization and the slavery? I think it was worse.

In 1915 Turks were fighting against Australian soldiers in Dardanellas.
Now even today it takes like 24 hours to get from australia to Turkey BY Plane.
What the hell were they doing in here?

When you are talking about hundreds of years ago you should think about the times back in those years. Because everybody were savages back in those days if you think about it with todays perspective.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 21:17 by Some French Dude @ : those days
"everybody were savages back in those days "

VERY true MacG... so does that mean that I will never see the "holier than thou" attitude from muslims again ?

... or did you mean "everybody were savages in those days" ...[fine prints] except the muslims who just wanted to get their land back, were very tolerant, never forced anyone to do or believe in anything, always attacked to correct past wrongs and generally were all good and beautiful [end of fine prints]

.. just asking :-)  

8 Feb 2006 @ 21:23 by reha @ : answer to very typical comment
What I am saying is that :
1)Yes Ottomans were imperialistic just like many other empires of the world history ( Romans, English, French , Dutch , USA etc.)
2) Whatever which was done that you name as mass murder or whatever was not done just for fun but they were mainly in answer to the same behaviour from the other party just like all the empires of the world history had always done.We are no different than French or English or Romans or Americans in that aspect.
3) Despite the historical facts above ,All our citizens have always had the same and equal rights in front of the state and law eversince the Ottoman and Turkey history regardless of their religion and ethnicity as long as they respected the law and regulations of the state.

This is what I beleive. You are free to beleive whatever you want.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 21:23 by GOD @ : Itching for a war
People listen, Iran and the Middle East are itching for a war on Israel. Let me be one of the last to predict that something big is going to happen in the middle east this year. People are so miserable in the middle east with poverty. They are all seeking to blame somebody, thanks to the British they have the Jews. wonder what would have happended if the the Jews were relocated somewhere else? The US has its hands full after the stupid president went to war with IRAQ and AFghanistan, now it has iran with WEapons of mass destruction. NO more army left to go to war on iran. So all the people in the middle east have had a cremasteric reflex (raised their balls). It would be better for most of the world if GOD did not exist - even though i believe in him. Even if all this wasn't there Hate would still exist. If there was one god for everybody - then we still have greed and power to deal with. Religion is JUST and EXCUSE.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 21:24 by Some French Dude @ : MacG
"I would agree wiyh you french dude if the police would be very rightly to run after a white french too.
But if the police is only rightly runs after immigrants there is a problem there. "

Police is right to run after anyone who commited a crime and may I add that if you run you don't have a clean conscience btw ;-)
... immigrants and "native" French alike... but it's true that immigrants commit most of the crime (I don't pretend to explain it here, but it IS a fact, so don't bother denying, just Google it)  

8 Feb 2006 @ 21:28 by J Thoma @ : Cartoons cause this????
What a fucking world we live in, a few cartoons may just divide nations and really start a war. Its not like the pot wasnt already to boil,but these Fucking Towel heads will destroy the good life as we all know it.
It is a shame that they ( Muslim Freaks) have the money (oil) to really alter the entire worlds daily living, including the knowledge that their own "wackjob" followers are willing to kill themselves to take out an enemy (non-sand niggers).
I say FUCK THEM.... GO To HELL to all fucking those smelly desert crawlers  

8 Feb 2006 @ 21:28 by MacG @ : in those days
to be honest most muslims countries are still back in those days.
(ı am a muslim from Turkey by the way)

And that's a whole another subject...
Why do they have that attitude?
Do Palestinians have another choice than throwing rocks at Israeli planes or suicide bombing?
Why they can't get themselves right?

We can talk about a million problems they have in the middle east...Non of which would justify violence.But before having an arrogant view against Islam , Muslims, Middle eastern people, and everything else one should try to see why it is so.With these other points of view you can understand the situation better.
( I don't mean you personally of course,I don't mean you are arrogant the general view I get on this forum from the Europeans is so)  

8 Feb 2006 @ 21:34 by Some French Dude @ : in those days
"Do Palestinians have another choice than throwing rocks at Israeli planes or suicide bombing? "

Hell, yeah !... they could have accepted the 1948 Palestine partition... they could have accepted Barak's fair plan in 2000  

8 Feb 2006 @ 21:34 by Al @ : ottaman empire
If in some islamic states woman have to keep covered up then why was it acceptable to have hareems or was this a result of just being powerful.Also my brother was in cyprus in the army and he said you often see turkish speial forces holding hands,kissing etc,and he was told that this is common,because some muslims or turks believe that the second messiah will be born from a man so it is ok to bum eachother.Now in all seriousneess was he being fed full of shit?I would like to know please on both points.
Answer to macg is that the aussies were there because winston churchill as first lord of the admiralty thought it was a good idea to open a southern front against the turks to releave pressure on the western front and to try and knock the turks out the war as allies to the germans.It was one large shit butty and a very bad idea.A blot on the otherwise formidable character of a great man.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 21:34 by steve @ : vibrani
Good grief, as the philosopher Charlie Brown says. The level of uneducated, antagonistic, history-revisioned, hate-filled virtriol is amazing. I must have missed a few adjectives in that sentece. Due to the current violence, I was interested in the cartoons, so I looked them up. I subsequently found myself caught up in this blog. I did see a glimmer of hope in a few thoghtful, educated postings, such as yours, vibrani. I, too, am deeply concerned about the future of our planet and the human race. I fear we are standing at the crossroads of a very dangerous time. Anyway, vibrani, thanks for your postings and your historical perspective.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 21:36 by MacG @ : about clean consciounce
quote SFD
"Police is right to run after anyone who commited a crime and may I add that if you run you don't have a clean conscience btw ;-) "

at first look it looks rational but, ıf you live in a mood where you think police might frame you for something you haven't done you might find it useful to run.

And another example at some point of his life Philip K Dick was so paronoid about the police framing him. Every time he saw a police car he turned himself in and said
-O.K I will take whatever blame you want to put on me please stop the torture.

8 Feb 2006 @ 21:44 by MacG @ : Al
I didin't mean why they were there I mean What the hell they were there for?
That was because somebody said The turks even tried to get Vienna.What were they doing there? That's why I brought that up because I thing it is absurd for an Aussie to fight in the Dardanellas.

By the way what your brother was told is the biggest bullshit I ever heard in my life.It made me laugh but it also made me sad because your brother and many others actually believed it.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 21:47 by Some French Dude @ : ...insinuation
"ıf you live in a mood where you think police might frame you for something you haven't done you might find it useful to run"

I guess you imply that French police is racist and that any muslim will naturally run even if pure as a newborn baby

... sure of course, everybody knows that police in France is very racist, torture muslims, insult their Prophet on a daily basis, rape their women and kill their children just for fun... some policemen are also Jewish and they drink blood from newborn muslim babies when muslim families are stopped for a traffic violation.

... but then again, admit it's a convenient excuse for running :-)  

8 Feb 2006 @ 21:53 by MacG @ : al
Al sorry I forgot about the harems.
The Harems were closed to outside world actually they were like a huge palace of their own, had everything in it. And There was only one castrated male (haremagasi) in there who organized and runned the harem. othervise no male.the practice about the covering up is. ıt isn't necessary to cover up when there is no men present.

So the paintings and other stuff you see about harems is all made up off fantasies no one ever saw what was it like inside.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 21:58 by Al @ : war
there are a lot of nut jobs out there as our leaders but surely the new iranian president tops them all.He is a believer in the coming of the 12th imam,and if you want to read about a crock of shit just type that into google.It is seriously worrying,what is also worrying that in my day to day life I have alot of contact with muslims of varying degrees of faith,because I live in a mainly muslim area in the Uk.I am proud to say My face is well known to many,I share food with them,laugh ,joke ,my daughter is always being given sweets by the locals and all in all the muslim community are very generous and kind people.
However when the persian grocer says it is american propaganda that a man has been put on the moon and it was all hollywood special effects.When another says 9/11 was an americaqn plot(I know all the rubbish spoken of that)and when another say's because he knows the Koran of by heart his parents when they die shall be seated on a golden bench with crowns upon there heads,and added to this my muslim driving instructor telling me that isreal is useing america for imperialistic invasion of the middle east ,so that when isreali and american forces are 100 miles from meddinah the messiah will come and world war 3 will start,then as a polite person ,with respect for others I smile and say nothing because they are nice my mind I am looking at them and thinking you lot are seriously of your fuckin heads and who is feeding you this shit.It is like grabbing children and brainwashing them,and as anyone knows who reads old flashy,a man with a smile on his face and faith in his heart is a man to avoid.
That is why there will be a war becuase of this sort of mumbo-jumbo!  

8 Feb 2006 @ 22:03 by Al @ : response
what I mean macg is the obvious differnces in the culture to allow a shaggin den but at the same time keep your woman sacred and covered to others,a bit hypocritical really.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 22:03 by reha @ : immigrants in France
just be patient my french dude friend to get rid of the immigrantion to France. With the rate of the investments escaping from west towards east , a lot of companies moving to east you will get rid of your headaches since it will very soon be inattractive to migrate there anyway. The engineering company that we cooperate in France went into bankrupt and closed their offices just like many other companies. PSA , Renault are escaping from France due to cost reasons. Examples like this are increasing more more everyday . I don' t think you will have to wait too much to see the immigration to France to seize. Those immigrants will unfortunately try to find new destinations.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 22:15 by Some French Dude @ : excellent !
"just be patient my french dude friend to get rid of the immigrantion to France. With the rate of the investments escaping from west towards east , a lot of companies moving to east you will get rid of your headaches since it will very soon be inattractive to migrate there anyway"

Wonderful, I can't wait !... we will unfurl the red carpet too and throw roses when you leave.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 22:16 by Hanan Taha @ : hmmm
Now Holand and Belgium are OBJECTING on Muslims newspapers having competition on drawing cartoons on the HOLOCUST and America is convicting Iranian newspaper for the same reason...hmmmmm...where is the claimed freedom of expression then?????  

8 Feb 2006 @ 22:20 by jack @ : kire khar to kose har chi danmarki
kir khar to kos zane tarahe in image ham
kire khar to koonet
marg bar danmark  

8 Feb 2006 @ 22:21 by steve @ : hmmmm
Big difference between objecting verbally to something you believe is in poor taste and using violence and death to protest -- don't you think?  

8 Feb 2006 @ 22:28 by reha @ : war
Al , pls don't be so pesimistic. Wars for the name of the religion, I beleive , is left in the past. Look at all the wars of the last decades and analyse to whom they serve. We have only to pray that a war of our country does not contain economical benefits to some party ruling the world !  

8 Feb 2006 @ 22:31 by Daryl @ : cartoons
We need to remember that these are just cartoons. Where is the outrage when Muslims in Iraq are blowing up other Muslims all in the name of Islam? Sure, publishing the cartoons was insensitive, but is violence always the answer? Isn't that what the artist was trying to get across in his cartoons that Islam is a religion of violence? What are these people doing proving him right if he is indeed wrong?  

8 Feb 2006 @ 22:47 by Frank @ : Muslim Cartoons
Do you get the point....they are commentary and cartoons! Does the word Satire mean anything to you??? Muslims claim to be enlightened and peaceful people....and now all this violence over some studid cartoons! Grow up live in this world.....and somethings you do and say are going to be made fun of......just like when you were a kid in school. You can begin to act like adults and have some discussions ....or act like school children and burn down embassys. After seeing all of this, I would not be suprised if more cartoons were released. I do respect the Muslim I respect all faiths.....and how I would like my faith respected. However, if I saw a cartoon from Saudi Arabia showing Christ hanging upside down or molesting little boys.....I would not burn down the embassy.....I might write a letter or work to show this type of cartoon in bad taste and not accurate.....but acting like a group of wild animals looting, killing and burning is not the only adds fuel to the message the cartoons were meant to show in the first place. Religious zealots....hell bent on the destruction of the West and our culture. A very sad time for the Muslim world! I can only hope you see the light.....and move towards a more peaceful expression of your condemnation of these stupid cartoons..........Instead your actions have made them international headlines and now millions have seen them......  

8 Feb 2006 @ 22:50 by RI @ : Foolish Muslims: they love religion...
Ha...Ha...This cartoons say alout about Islam. I don't care if there are a hundred thousand million decent, peace loving Muslims in the world. Extremism has stolen the day. Islam want't to take over the world and make everyone worship Alla by force if not willingly. Bah...

Islam is a religion of cooks...It is a religion where you can kill your family members for the sake of honor, kill someone for making a cartoon, kill yourself and as many others as you can in the name of Alla (and get a bunch of virgins to boot), deny women any rights outside the kitchen and bedroom, call everyone who is not a Muslim a infidel and therefore unworthy of even the valued somewhere between feces and a bug that eats feces, you can kill innocent people based on the actions of others through a principle of guilt by association, and on and on and on....

Bottom line it...Muslim's don't really care about the cartoons...they just want another reason to kill someone. If we are know by our actions over our words and Islam is a religion that demands action, then what are we to say of Islam? It is a dirty filthy religion because it breeds hate and intolerance and screw the rights and dignity of women, children, and the unbelieving.

I wouldn't trust a Muslim any further than I could throw one. Deep down inside, they all believe the world is theirs and there is no room for any other. These extremists are like the suppressed ego of the Muslim that walks around with a smile on their face pretending to emulate the love and affections of Alla and their prophet Muhammed. May Peace be upon him? Whatever. That is like the most disingenuous and contrived thing that could come out of a Muslim's mouth. Oh...peace be upon Muhammed, but screw everybody else.

Islam is the extreme end of the religious spectrum that worships rules and regulations above the real "likey" intent of Alla. The same thing happened in Jesus' time. The scribes and pharisees would kill anyone who did any work on the Sabbath. the scribes and pharasees were against Jesus, I think the extreme Islam fringe is going to here the same thing from their precious Alla that Jesus told the scribes and pharisees..."you brood of are like whitewashed graved...on the outside your are clean...but inside you are full of dead men's love the high seat of honor and you make long prayers in public so as to be percieved by others as holy..."


All this really makes me want to be a Muslim...  

8 Feb 2006 @ 22:59 by MacG @ : iranian cartoons
well 5 months ago the cartoons were objected verbally too
then there was letters and emails anf phonecalls asking for an apology
then there was boycotts and then came violence.

So when objected verbally the response was fuck you muslims there is freedom of speech and the cartoons were and still is being published in many other papers.

Although I think the Iranian newspaper is doing wrong and Holocoust cartoons will hurt peoples feelings worse than the Danish cartoons, the same principle should have been applied if we are talking about freedom of expression  

8 Feb 2006 @ 23:22 by Some French Dude @ : ... iranian paper
"Although I think the Iranian newspaper is doing wrong and Holocoust cartoons will hurt peoples feelings worse than the Danish cartoons"

... don't worry. Offensive cartoons are printed everyday in the arab press !... the joke will be on you (muslims) when you do print (as usual) the most offensive Holocaust cartoons and absolutely nobody will give a shit about it :-D.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 23:27 by MacG @ : offensive cartoons
You never know, Bush might claim that there are offensive cartoons in Iran and invade it :)  

8 Feb 2006 @ 23:28 by AL @ : response to reha
Reha,I am a pessimistic person becuase if anyone takes the time to look around, this world will one day end and it will only be the chance that we have travelled to the stars that the human race will survive.Putting that aside Are you insinuating what I believe is the excuse that christian and jewish clerics are putting about these days.Which is that the 20th century saw the greatest conflict and loss of life the world has ever seen due to fascist and communist ideologies.I dont believe this for a second.Hitler was a catholic and Stalin went to a seminary for a while.Was it the disgust at the christian religion that drove them to their evil.
Also it would be interesting to know the populations of the world in the past century's,in proportion to deaths by war.The romans did a good job,the egyptians,Alexander,genghis and kubla khan,who wiped out a million people in 3 days.The countless people killed in the americas by the spread of the christian faith,whole populations wiped out.The numbers slavery killed,not forgetting that it was the arabs that were a dab hand at that game long before the west jumped on board,and were helped by local african chiefs like the king of Dahomey in the 19th century who sat an a throne of skulls.Keep in mind that most civilisations had some form of religious order and killed in it's name,the inca's and aztezs spring to mind,then the thought that religions have never killed so many as the ideologies of the last century surely must be horseshit.Religious war is not a thing of the past as it is still closely linked to race,the balkans,indonesia,darfur etc,and although the west is more and more irreligious these day's it doesnt mean that we agnostic and atheists won't come to the point of joining our christian nutjob brothers in fighting Islam.I dont want to fight anyone and I'm gutted it may come to it, but when the battlelines have been drawn you got to choose your side.A life as we are including the happy clappy brigade or a life under islam.I know who I'll be fighting with.Praise God and pass the ammunition.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 00:12 by reha @ : war anciety
Al ,

The main reason why you should not be worried about a religion war is that Turkish army , which is the most powerfull army of the muslim world, is indeed a very higly US dependent , oriented and controlled army. Also our economy is very fragile and sensitive to extraordinary events.We would not be volunteered for such a meaningless war where we have no economical benefit.Without us the rest of the muslim world cannot dare to start such a fight against west. On the other hand the only western military power is US and I don't think it is to their economical benefit to start a war just for religious reasons. I ignore the EU since they have no military power. Russia seems to be neutral in this issue and if they would want to do anything it would be selling weapons rather than fighting since they despirately need money for their economy. Let's assume for a while that the arabs will start this war . But they are not very famous with their ability to fight. The last war they had against Israel did not take more than a few days.Indonesians are too far away from the region. Malaysians are quite neutral and peaceful people.

Who the hell is really left to realize this war.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 00:33 by Saliya @ : Puzzled
I am puzzled to see and hear all these protests and reactions on a subject of some cartoons. I am a Buddhist from Sri Lanka. You all know to what extent the Cristians use the image of Buddha for commercial purpose, and now the devine image is used for decorations. How the Afghanistan muslims distroy the world biggest buddha statues. I thought the muslims were crazy. But thanks to Al Queeda, now the West has realized there are terrorists. I am still puzzled. I wish there is no religion, no nationality, no race, no country or no "I" in this world. So everybody will die and untill then we all will live together.


9 Feb 2006 @ 00:53 by flano @ : why now?
Has anybody bothered to ask the question of "Why now?"?

Six months ago these cartoons first appeared why the violence now?

And let's just make sure everyone is CHRYSTAL CLEAR on this issue.

1. Just because one has the right to free speech automatically carries with it the obligation of self-censorship. Society does not work without it.

2. Just because one has the right to protest automatically carries with it the obligation not to cause harm to others.

Apply these two tests to the current situation and the following deductions are made.

In the first test the newsmen resposible for the images seeing the light of day are not interested in journalism and are simply after the hype at best - haters at worst. What was so news-worthy of these cartoons that made the editor say to himself "If I don't print these my fellow Danes will kill themselves"?

The second test concludes that the people offended are beyond reason and have shown the venom of their "convictions" all to clearly. What rational person wakes up one day and says "I'm so angry I have to burn something and kill a few people"?

Parting thought - Why would a man (a term I use very losely when describing a child molester) not want his picture drawn? I can understand a God not wanting statues pictures etc - but why a man?


9 Feb 2006 @ 00:57 by Person J. Guy @ : Let's Not Categorize People
I'm from the US, not intentionally mind you, and I don't have any problem with Muslims. Please, come to California. Welcome. Enjoy your stay. Not all people who live in the US are ignorant cowboys. Some of us are quite nice and like yourselves are just trying to get by, eat some good food, raise some kids and have a bit of fun along the way.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 01:00 by Michael @ : offensive
I get offended every time Bush opens his lie-hole.
But, I have not killed anyone or burned anything --YET  

9 Feb 2006 @ 01:06 by flano @ : offensive
Precisely, Michael - that's what we call rational.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 01:11 by WB @ : Real Confused
If Islam is an offspring of the Orthodox faith and the Orthodox are Christians who believe in Jesus Christ who was born a Jew, why do the muslems hate the Jews??  

9 Feb 2006 @ 01:13 by WB @ : Slow learners
"Six months ago these cartoons first appeared why the violence now?"

Because it took them that long to figure it out!  

9 Feb 2006 @ 01:27 by flano @ : First Joke
Well done WB - It think you cracked the first joke about this debacle!

As the hatred - its hard to work out. Easier to ask who they like.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 01:42 by WB @ : Who do they like?
It seems like they don't like ANYBODY.
The sucide bombers kill more of their own than the so-called "infidels".  

9 Feb 2006 @ 01:55 by A Dane @ : Peace!
I wish to believe that there are fare more good Muslims than bad one’s.
So why is it that a few percent of one billion Muslims have the power to dominate the rest?
Who keep the fanatic Islamic Muslims alive and why?
We can’t go on like this it has to stop. Use your energy on something else. Why do so many Muslim countries still have dictators? Use your energy to remove them and get a live.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 02:21 by Holger Dansker @ : Mohammed & Followers
Please note that all Muslims in Denmark will be transferred to Israel
and will be converted to the Jewish fate...

Good luck all  

9 Feb 2006 @ 02:36 by flano @ : extremes
Intersting question "Who keeps the fanatic...alive and why?" At its crux is the question "Why keep the fanatic alive?" Answer "why" and you have "who".

The ability to rule absolutely stems from an ability to control the masses absoltuely.

As an example is the hatred card. The need to have a loyal and adoring public is to keep them dependent on you and to keep them focused and angry at your enemies. Countless nations use this practice (think war propaganda from WW1 to the present) and humans are stupid enough to be done over by it over and over again.

Chuck a holy cause into the mix and you have a people commited for life! And it works both ways. Here in the land of Oz - this exact thing is going down!

For the last few years the fear campaign started with talk of a threat from the north (ie Indonesia & why anyone thought their army would be better at handling the logisitic nightmare of invasion than the army of Japan from WW2 is anyone's guess) but fear only earns the people's trust. Hatred is the reaction that tips them over as was seen in a couple of riots in Cronulla NSW before Christmas 2005.

Over to the court of Public Opinion.

So why would it be of benefit to have a few percent out on the edge and extreme?

Why is it neccessary to have unquestioning hateful followers?


9 Feb 2006 @ 02:45 by vibrani : Holger
LOLOL but what makes you think Israel would want them?  

9 Feb 2006 @ 03:45 by Hush little babies @ : Stupid kids
There are about approximately 4000 Minor and major religions here on earth, If there is a god he made earth for a purpose, to enjoy life, to embrace it, to feel all the emotions that exists through out life, Depression, Happiness, Love, Hate, Courage, and so on. There is so much in life. If there was a God id'e say that he would want you to be Righteous and good but to rely on your heart and your mind not the Quran or the Bible, There is some good and some bad things in the Bible and the Quran, maybe god made it a challenge too see who would choose the good or the bad out of the bible as a test. Don’t believe entirely on what people say neither (Muslim clerics, Priests, atleast make sure his words are of good) because there are so many out there who are full of shit and full of sin, be wise and think things over do not be deceived. The majority of people who are bad had a bad child hood, had a bad life, they were sexually molested, they were beaten by their parents, the circle of sin. If there was a God id'e say he made us to help out each other, to go and help the people who are suffering world wide, there is allot of trouble on earth, that trouble is a challenge for you to go and fix, the challenge of god. If God is real id’e say hede want us to go and fight the Tyrants of the earth.

There are about approximately 4000 Minor and major religions here on earth, why Islam? Why a Catholic? Why an Evangelical? Why a Hindu? Because the masses that surround you believe in it as well? because your friends belive in it? Be strong, be respectful, be courageous, be Good, God understands that we are Confused, there are 4000 relegions out there and countless liars, ask for forgiveness, If he truly loves us he will understand.

Do not be Deceived, be wise, rely on your heart and your mind. Do good.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 03:51 by Captain Ron @ : Muslim Anger
You have got to be joking, with the crime and corruption that takes place in many of these Muslim countries including, but not limited to murder, rape, drugs, human rights abuse, female abuse and they want to get worked up over a silly cartoon!! More like an excuse to vent their anger over the US illegal invasion of Iraq is more like it; more likely a protest of western culture and the current idiot(GW-Mr Switch grass) running this nation. Sad to see so many Muslim's not living by the teachings of the Great Mohammed, maybe they NEVER read the book????
We should ALL be able to take a little fun poked at whatever your beliefs may be, if you CAN NOT earth IS NOT the planet for you!!
I must admit I find it rather absurd, childish, unfaithful, deviant, criminal behavior-much like the countries they live in!!  

9 Feb 2006 @ 03:54 by DA NICK @ : LITTLE PUNKS
cryin about a cartoon we should wipe out all those fools rioting in the streets. Muslims seem to cause nothing but trouble between being terrorists or just being like the scum of the earth.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 04:37 by d e @ : get a sense of humour
so much hate. and yet the people espousing it are meant to be very "religious" - if thats the case i am confused - does being devout mean hating anything different or a contrary opinion and having no sense of humour - be able to laugh at yourself , and if you really find it disrespectful turn away and leave it at that - certainly don't hate. I just dont get religions that see violence as an option.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 04:50 by HAHAHA @ : HHEHEHEHE
9 Feb 2006 @ 03:45 by Hush little babies @ : Stupid kids

I tottaly agree with you Hush little babies, thats some heavey shit you put on
there I think there should be more people like you.

What i find funny about
these Muslim fanatics is that they put so much effort in Killing Millions of
innocent people and burning down embasys over some lame ass pathetic looking drawings (that my 2 year old brother could draw better)Rather than saving forests or fighting for womens rights or Saving Wales or getting involved into "GOOD FOR HUMANITY" TYPE OF SHIT! THIS IS NOTHING COMPARED TO WHAT I HAVE SEEN STILL! I have found that the media is such a big pussy, there are many things you all havent seen, Now i am reaveling them too you ( watch how they brain wash their children to kill israli soldiers ( WARNING BEAHEADING ) WARNING BEAHEADING)
(DISGRACULL TO OUR COUNTRY! WATCH THIS ONE AS THEY STEP ON OUR FLAG IN NY!) (watch how they shoot an american soldier and chant allah


9 Feb 2006 @ 05:13 by NoOneOf Importance @ : Whoa........ can we talk before we yell

If we want peace, we must never again think of Ethnic Cleansing.
We can live together on this tiny tiny planet if we talk before we yell.
If we talk, the yelling will lessen.
Too much hate and anger and war and revenge is going around lately.
Too many people pointing the finger, giving the finger, pulling the trigger finger.
Too much negativity floating around, blowing in the wind, blowing up buldings.
Too much re-invented hell for all of us.
We are all so very very tired.
Put down the sword, put your tongues back in your mouths
Go fishing, listen to Mozart, Pray to YOUR god, Plant a tree.
Too much fire feeding the already too frenzied furnace.

If you give attention to a child taking a tantrum.
The tantrum will continue. Attention is a human trait.
If you ignore the child talking a tanturm
The child will quiet.

Take a walk, smile and say hello and become peace, walk and talk of peace, emulate peace, become nothing less.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 05:29 by ra_who @ : buffoon Dr Shred
You don't get it, do you? Still seeking meaning in life by welling up a heart full of anti-american hatred - and you're an american. The cartoon expressions are a free speech issue. These muslims wish to silence anything their leaders call bad. You freely complain of american atrocities. And you should be able to. But when they come to murder me and my family in the name of Allah and peace, I will fight to the death. After all, it's not a matter of if I die. Just when. They do not know Allah or peace. And Dr Shred. You don't know your ass from a hole in the ground.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 05:59 by HAHAHA @ : HHEHEHEHE
Only if we had more people like NoOneOf Importance and Hush little babies, you guys made some really great points and thoughts, I for one dont see it as easy though, I dont think this world will last any longer, Look at the president of iran, he claimed that he saw a Light in the sky comming down apoun him and that he talked to allah that he had no fear at the UN meeting, and hes trying to Aquire Inriched Uranium!? breaking all the rules and he claims that he is a prophet Of Mohammad, Its just a matter of time untill the first Uranium filled Nukes hail down on earth, I remmember Visiting New york Ground Zero As i was looking at the massive crater it woke me up to reality I was thinking about those who had died and it gave me this Great sence of Vulnerability of an attack, we are not safe with people like this.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 06:26 by Rene David @ : What do muslims want?
I consider myself a tolerant and educated American: I speak several languages, have lived on three continents, and believe strongly in the importance of respecting others' ways. The muslim world, however, is truly a challenge to my tolerance. How do muslims expect the world to see them? They demolish other faiths' icons (see the piles of rubble at Bamiya) and then take profound offense when theirs are even DEPICTED in a less than adoring light BY NON-MUSLIMS. They complain that they are unfairly portrayed as senselessly violent, and then execute an old woman who had married into their faith and dedicated her life to helping THEIR poor. They constantly strut with bravado about the weakness of the West, as if Western military force unleashed (with the same arbitrary chaos as they themselves so often exhibit) would not decimate their fragile societies. I used to concur when I heard moderate muslims express their surprise at being lumped with the bloodyhanded extremists among them. Now, when I hear the muslim world decrying this latest great offence, all I can picture is the crowds of dancing Palestinian children dancing on our flag on September 12th. ::sigh::  

9 Feb 2006 @ 06:34 by vibrani : Carlos Santana
on the Grammy Awards tonight reminded people of something (in Hebrew):
Kadosh kadosh kadosh adonai zevaot melo kol ha-aretz kvodo, holy, holy, holy is Adonai Zevaot; the whole world is filled with God’s glory. Let there be peace everywhere.

Even the angels in heaven (according to Jewish tradition) each of whom has a special responsibility, an expertise, or a concern, kulak knead omni vomit b’yirah stand united in their reverent praise of God with that saying.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 08:24 by David @ : Tolerance
I used to live and work in Saudi Arabia for three years. In Saudi I was prohibited from practicing my own religion, drinking alcholol, socializing with the opposite sex (In Saudi two people of the opposite sex are not even allowed to be friends unless they are related. In restaurants there is a section for men and a section for families) There are no cinemas or any form of social entertainment. The newspapers will de-face a picture of any religious symbol that is not islam by using a black magic marker.

Did I find this frustrating? Yes of course. Did I complain? No I did not. I don't agree with it but it was not my place to complain. If this is what the people of Saudi want then so be it. I was a guest in their country.

In Europe we allow freedom for all (including muslims) to practice their own religion and express their opinions freely. As a result of this wonderful freedom issues will be raised that will cause debate. The cartoons is such an issue. Debate I think is the key word here. A good debate as a result of these cartoons could be centered around why the west currently has a negative opinion of muslims. Have the muslims brought this upon themselves or is has the western media portraid all muslims to be evil?

The reaction from the muslim world over these cartoons is really only fueling the fire when it comes to demonizing muslims. I myself have come to the point where my tolerance is being tested to the limit. I now have very little empathy for muslims. I feel strongly that the demise of the muslim faith is going to be caused by the muslims themselves.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 08:33 by Just me @ : For the record...
"...[T]he Prophet (Muhammed) said to her (Aisha), 'You have been shown to me twice in my dream. I saw you pictured on a piece of silk and someone said (to me). 'This is your wife.' When I uncovered the picture, I saw that it was yours. I said, 'If this is from Allah, it will be done.'"
(Hadith, Sahih Bukhari 5:58:235)

"[T]he Prophet (Muhammed) married her (Aisha) when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death)."
(Hadith, Sahih Bukhari 7:62:64)

"Narrated 'Aisha: 'I used to wash the traces of Janaba (semen) from the clothes of the Prophet (Muhammed) and he used to go for prayers while traces of water were still on it (water spots were still visible).'"
(Hadith, Sahih Bukhari 1:4:229)

"Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet (Muhammed), and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me."
(Hadith: Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151)

"Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: When I got married, Allah's Apostle (Muhammed) said to me, 'What type of lady have you married?' I replied, 'I have married a matron'. He said, 'Why, don't you have a liking for the young virgins and for fondling them?' Jabir also said: Allah's Apostle said, 'Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?'"
(Volume 7, Book 62, Number 17)

The cartoons were very soft, given what kind of disgusting bastard muhammad was !  

9 Feb 2006 @ 08:41 by Just me @ : ... now about (adult) women
Omar reported from the Holy Prophet (Muhammed) who said, 'No man shall be questioned for beating his wife.'"
(Al Hadis, Vol. 1, p. 215)

"The prophet said: 'When a man calls his wife to bed and she does not come, the husband spends the night being angry with her, and the angels curse her until morning. The one who is in heaven is displeased with her until the husband is pleased with her.'"
(Sahih hadith, chapter 558)

"The Prophet (Muhammed) said: 'I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers were women who were ungrateful.' It was asked, 'Do they disbelieve in Allah?' (or are they ungrateful to Allah?) He replied, 'They are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors and the good (charitable deeds) done to them. If you have always been good (benevolent) to one of them and then she sees something in you (not of her liking), she will say, 'I have never received any good from you.'"
(Hadith, Sahih Bukhari 1:2:28)

"Abu Sayeed al-Khodri reported that Muhammed was talking to a group of women when he said, '... I see the majority of you will go to Hell.' The women asked why, to which Muhammed responded, 'You often curse and are ungrateful to your companions.'(1) He then told them they had a basic defect in their nature, to which they responded, 'How?' Muhammed answered, 'Is not the attestation (knowledge and witness) of a women only worth half of a man's? And that is on account of her short intelligence.'"
(Al-Hadis, Vol. 3, p. 137)

... just sad that so many poeple actually belive that this guy is holy.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 10:42 by hanan Taha @ : answers to your questions
Wait a minute,
i see here non-muslims describing muslims' feeling and situatuion as if they do really live with them...what's wrong with u?
however,I'll answer all your questions in a more civilized and quiet way:
Why we delayed the protest on these cartoons for 4 months? because muslims embassadors during that period has tried to reach the Danes prime minister and he didn't bother to meet them.then the newspaper has published the cartoons AGAIN.just then Muslims has got offended ( by the reaction not only the cartoons).
Why Do Muslims always react by violence? Not all of them.very afew of them who are really psychics.the other 2 billions are good and civilized expressing an objection using the boycott.

Why do not muslims be funny and accept the freedom of speech? for two reasons: first, free speech has limits because europian writers and cartoonists expressing doubts about the HOLOCUST are being convicted for hurting the feelings of the jewish people.Second, as far as Europe has respected the jews feeling,we want Europe to consider this for us - muslims-too. YOU CAN MAKE FUN OF OUR LEADERS...YOU CAN MAKE FUN OF STUPID BIN LADEN , BUT PLEASE DON'T MESS WITH ISLAMIC SYMBOLS ( MOHAMMED (PPUH) , THE HOLY QURAN AND GOD).

I also wanna conclude a speech of Mohammed ( PPUH) : " The who hurts non-muslims has actualy hurt me and thus who has hurt me , has actualy hurt GOD)...see?

I have a question for you, Why did Europe convict Iran for doing the competition to draw the holocust while being openminded with free speech?  

9 Feb 2006 @ 11:36 by Hanan Taha @ : women in islam
Just me > The way you express Islam disrespect to women is too shallow..u should have asked muslims about the meanings of the Hadith u have concluded before you judge on them.

I'm a muslim woman and I'm the most appropriate one to reply to you:

No man shall be questioned for beating his wife????
For God's sake , someone beating his wife is cursed in Islam and the wife has the full right to demand a divorce.This HADITH you have concluded is forged.

I didn't wanna talk about sex here,but I have to...
Mohammed peace be upon him has urged men to respect their wife needs telling them not to force her for sex and to do some proposals for sex like a kiss " and don't jump on her like an animal" said Muhammed peace be upon him.

when he said that women will be the majority of hell inhabitants...IT WAS A WARNING TO THEM NOT A STATEMENT !!! u r right to misunderstand it , but since , as u think , they might be the majority,he could have not tell them to avoid the reason,but in fact he said that as a proplogue to tell them to avoid bad actions and bad talking that may lead them to hell.

The rest comes further...  

9 Feb 2006 @ 11:47 by Hanan Taha @ : women in Islam
Mohammed ( PPUH) didn't die praying or reading Quran...he died while his wife AISHA) is hugging him.

Muslims girls here in muslims countries are having full education and their family will be convicted by law if they try to deprive them from education.

Mohammed ( PPUH) said: " Those who has daughters and he has tought them,fed them and took good care of them will be sent to heaven"  

9 Feb 2006 @ 12:07 by Tom Dennis @ : Cartoons
I wanted to take a look at those controversial cartoons. Since religion is a very sensitive issue I probably wish that they were not drawn (I am not religious anyway). I can understand the anger of Muslims. I’d also like to hear their voice as to why they kept quite when Taliban destroyed the Buddhist statues in Afghanistan.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 13:04 by Hanan Taha @ : answer to Tom Dennis
Tom Dennis > What Taliban did is totally refused as Islam urges to respect other peoples' religions and temples. I don't agree with most of what Taliban does.
Sometimes they do bad actions that are - unfortunately- generalized to whole muslims.
And No one would ever blame Budhists if they have protested.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 13:21 by mishka @ : they are all the same!
those fanatic islamists are not in the minority. if you give those crazy arab countries a free and fair elections, they islamist radical parties will take 90%. they are all the same! 10% of good muslims dont count for me!  

9 Feb 2006 @ 13:59 by Rick @ : Virginia Freedom of Religion
Political cartoons express political or social messages through caricatures of current events or well established stereotypes. Metaphors, symbols, and satire are tools of the trade.

The meer fact that a message is objectionable to someone is not shocking. That's the point of these things ... to make you think.

That this particular caricature would be considered Blasphamous to Muslims is understandable, in hindsight. (I am now a bit more educated - I couldn't have predicted that before). That this particular caricature would result in protests is understandable. That this particular caricature would result in riots, deaths, and death threats is NOT.

Sorry, that goes over the line separating church and state. It is a line I wish existed throughout the Islamic world (Ummah).

I was raised in Viginia [USA]. James Madison and Thomas Jefferson wrote possibly the finest works on this subject. Madison's Memorial and Remonstrance was written in opposition to a bill, introduced into the General Assembly of Virginia, to levy a general assessment for the support of teachers of religions. The assessment bill was tabled, and in its place the legislature enacted Jefferson's Bill for Religious Liberty.

Please consider reflecting on them. Just Google "virginia freedom of religion" or use these links ...

Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, James Madison, 1785

The Virginia Act For Establishing Religious Freedom, Thomas Jefferson, 1786  

9 Feb 2006 @ 15:15 by vibrani : America
was founded by very enlightened beings, for the time. "Those who sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither"--- Ben Franklin  

9 Feb 2006 @ 15:40 by colin @ : cartoons of mohammed
I know why the muslim world is up in arms at the cartoon of their prophet mohammed its because they are tyrying to get their religious ways into the wsetern world and with all the media attention they are having since 9/11 and even further back than that since the crusades even, the only true Living God is Almighty God the creator of this universe and even the prophet mohammed (i say prophet becasue the name prophet is used lighty ) Jesus Christ is the true saviour of this world and there will come a day when every knee shall bow before his presence even mohammed dont belive me read the Bible it is the only truth ot mankind that is truth today I wonder why the muslims are trying to defend a dead prophet when I as a christian believe that the God can fight his own battles and there is no neeed for christians to try to defend Christ despite the ridicukle and mockery that has been shown to him down through the centuries, Jesus said on the cross "father forgive them for they know not what they do" we as christians are taught to forgive and can expect persecution etc. My prayers are the muslim people who are seeking truth and forgiveness which can only be found in the person of the lord Jesus Christ I will expect alll sorts of emails to come after posting this but will still pray for the muslim people because the Bible says in John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever beliveth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. My God is a God of love and forgiveness , is Allah a god of love and forgiveness ?? ask yourself this quiestion  

9 Feb 2006 @ 15:45 by vibrani : What is the difference
between your fundamentalist views or those of the fundamentalist Muslims? None! You each think yours is the only God, the only way. That's crazy. I don't trust any fundamentalist religious freaks.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 15:48 by Todd @ : I'm Not Muslim Dammit
I don't care about what muslims think is right and wrong, and I don't have to live by their law nor even respect it. I also agree with the war on iraq and feel that every time a muslim commits a violent act, we should be closer to banning them from not only America but our alies as well.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 17:02 by ef @ : Cartoons printed in Egypt
Please check ''. The cartoons were first reprinted in Egypt on 17 Octobre 2005, long before they even appeared in Norway. No outcry, no threats, no sacking of editors. '' sees that as that "a sign that this violent response to the cartoons is politically-motivated by Muslim extremists in Europe and the so-called secular governments of the Middle East".

He may not be so far off.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 17:04 by AL @ : response toHanah taha
I try to keep an open mind on most things Hanah And seeing as you are a muslim woman and I have only read the first 200 hundred pages of the Koran before putting it down in bewilderment,can you tell me if it is true about the prophet and the 9yr old girl? Now what I have to consider is the time this took place,life expectancy in the 7th century was'nt great so people married young,but to consumate a marriage I would presume a female has to be able to have children i.e.have a pre menstrual cycle.Takeing this into consideration you may be able to come to the conclusion that sex with a young female is legitamate in a certain period of history(no pun intended)However 9 is pushing the boundaries of biological logic.Could you please clear the matter for us interested ,respectful non-muslims please,because otherwise The situation sounds a bit dodgy.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 17:10 by Al @ : response to colin
Colin you and your kind are not far off the muslim extremists,although peace in word and action is usually paramount.Is it me or is it also the way language is used by the religious that is worrying.We arent in the 7th century and all the praise be holier than thou speak smacks of an underdeveloped nature that has'nt caught up withe the modern age!  

9 Feb 2006 @ 17:19 by KS @ : My 5 cnets
I wish there was a more eloquent and civilized way to say this, but there is not. So here goes: WTF!!! ALL THIS SH*T OVER A F**KING CARTOON!!!???  

9 Feb 2006 @ 17:29 by uk boy @ : religious war
as a uk resident living in 1 of the worst areas of the uk i cant belive poeple are blamin poverty for your actions that is stupid. And to the person who said christians started 2 world wars and killed jews need to see what we did to stop that shit, u muslims kill people because of there race u have been brainwashed and ur to thick to see it and isreal is the land of the jews so it is there land keep ur hands off i respect every faith except islam to me there all a bunch of jokers nothing u can say to me or millions of brtions to change how we feel its to late  

9 Feb 2006 @ 17:37 by vibrani : Why is Norway
suddenly the topic? The cartoons appeared in Denmark. EF, I agree, it is politically motivated. David, I think Muslims who live outside of the western free world are deprived of so much. With so much suppression of and control over a natural, normal free spirit, how can people not be messed up? Every step is planned for them, everything is rigid, stubborn, no flexibility. Those that believe that way with all of their hearts can't hear another viewpoint. And those that are still in touch with their souls probably go through hell with inner conflicts. There is NO WAY that I, as a woman and a mother, would ever put my children through what Muslim women demand of their children. That is akin to torture, slavery, murder, the worst degradation of a human being, and the worst kind of disrespect for God.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 17:42 by uk boy @ : u aint scary
and i have heard they bombs our countries to try and scare us. hahaha u must be jokin if i wana go on holiday i will go on the plane not worrin at all if they want to hijack my plane they will have to get passed me and my crew first and let me tell u that it aint gonna happen get it in ur head if u look like a muslim in our countires we watch everyting u do. They cant take over where to big to strong and to cleaver for u uneducated muslims. I have read things saying muslims had many wise men throughout the ages wats gone wrong nowadys.You people should count urself lucky because ur in a much better suitiuation then some people in africa and central america. And finally if u wants us to get out of iraq u need to stop this jihad shit because u cant beat europe and america when were together dont u see that ur goin in circles and its ur own fault look who the new leader of iran is a fuckin terrorist and u wonder why we print cartoons your all a fuckin bunch of jokers u got prblem come to uk and we will c oh auctully you will proberbly be here soon anyway leavin off the fuckin taxes i pay and i am fed up with this shit and im only 19 by the time i hit 30 whos knows what i will be thinkin if ur a muslim dont be disrespctful to any other religion when i there taht will be big mistake trust its already happened try in again u stinkin muslims its like the new nazis and look what happened to them dont make th e same mistake  

9 Feb 2006 @ 17:45 by ef @ : egyptian reprints
Sure they did appear in Denmark. But until now, Norway was thought to have been the first country to reprint them. Well, so now we know that Egypt was the first country that did a reprint, and no outcries heard. As this is circulating rapidly through the blogs, it may become impossible for the officials to claim religious taboos as source for their righteous anger. I mean, how can you demand that noone prints pictures of Mohammed, when one of their own did the first reprints?  

9 Feb 2006 @ 17:47 by vibrani : Oh yeah
it's bullshit - Muslims have depicted Mohammaed throughout the ages in art.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 18:03 by Eva @ : Womens right
As a women living in sweden i am very afraid that this cartoons will make my goverment in Sweden so afraid for the muslims that they gonna let them take over our freedom , expecially womens right.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 18:07 by uk boy @ : i love chrsitmas
i dotn know much about muslims but i dont think they are aloowd to lust women yet there alowed like 10 wives that is a joke can someone really love all ten of his wives it seems to me thay have wife for cookin a wife for cleanin and so on just dont make any sense can some one help me out on that because its seems u got ur wires wrong again  

9 Feb 2006 @ 18:21 by WB @ : Whose God is right?
I think all religions actually worship the same God, but have their own way of doing it. So whose way is right and whose is wrong? Only God can answer that.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 19:20 by reha @ : answer to miska about elections
You also say all muslims are extremists and would vote for the radikal party if they had the free elections. Totally wrong . We have 70 million Muslims in Turkey and thanks god we have full democracy and totally free elections since 1945. So far we only had 1 party which had Islamic opinions(even though not extremist but moderate ) and they could only get less than 1 % vote in their first election in early 70's. They were able to reach 21 in 90's due mainly to the very big frustration of the social democrat party and the wish of their supporters to try some other alternative. After having seen their actions as in the coalition on power , their vote decreased to 3 % in the last elections. That means 97 % do not support a party with Islamic opinions since religion is only between the people and the god and should not be used as a political mean to rule the country.

I also have several friends in Azerbaycan( ca 30 million population )and the religion has no effect on the elections there as well.

We two are more than the arab countries in population

Just for your information !  

9 Feb 2006 @ 19:20 by ulug @ : insult
you can not trow apunch to see how peaceafull the men.Simply dinie the truth will get you know where,If youre blind its no one elses fault.Listen and feel try to open your eyes and see miracles are all araund us.You call Jesus I call Allah,These are high order abstractions u feel or not but do not sweare to my religion if dont believed.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 19:21 by Hanan Taha @ : Plzzzzzzz
The conversation has taken another path.
Okay,People, wether muslims are fundamentalists or not...wether muslims are uneducated or not...wether muslims' culture is from the Dinosaur era or not, LET US ALONE !!! enough making jokes about our symbols which - even if you hate them- we do love them.Okay?
Why don't every nation mind its own business??
I said before...YOU CAN MAKE FUN OF OUR LEADERS, TERRORISTS EVEN STUPID BIN LADEN , but let our prophet whom we love aside please.
The caricatures we make about jews is not about MOSES itself's about zionist leaders.We NEVER either critisize Jesus because our religion FORCES us to respect all prophets and all religions.
if some muslims don't do that and mess with other non-muslims,well,they are a punch of stupid psychics . That has nothing to do with Mohammed , so please don't include him.You don't know anything about him,okay? so don't judge on a dead person whom you don't know from a punch of psychics who are never true muslims.
Use your mind to diffrentiate please and don't mix things up.
I really got tired explaining the same point over and over again. I never expected western people to be that stabborn.
You want the truth about Islam? Look for it in its resources not from the media or those hoaxy books insulting it.
Peace be upon you all.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 19:39 by Just me @ : ... politicians
The most courageous European politician is a woman ho was born in Somalia... take not, all of you brainwashed muslims who accuse all those who oppose islam of being racist !  

9 Feb 2006 @ 20:51 by Dr. Shred @ : Mohammed cartoons
In response to ra_who (“buffoon Dr Shred”, “And Dr Shred. You don't know your ass from a hole in the ground.”), all the examples I list of U.S. sponsored terrorism are well documented (see the links, read the books). The problem is, as I said, most people, including you, are totally unaware of them. As an American citizen it is my duty to point these abuses out. What scares me are the undocumented examples. I don’t think the extent of U.S. terrorism is fully understood.

Why bring this up at all? Because, with all the simmering resentment in the Middle East and over the rest of the world against the U.S., it was only a matter of time before the U.S. was attacked. Whether or not you agree with Bin Laden’s rationale of 9/11, there were plenty of provocations that could be used as an excuse. And now, the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq have provided a catalyst that has legitimized extremist Moslem groups which were previously marginalized. Now, these groups could say, “We told you so”. Now, violent reaction to even a slight, highly exaggerated provocation, like the Mohammed cartoons, becomes more acceptable.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 21:07 by Al @ : to reha
Reha its psyco's not psychic's and thank you for your comments ,but the whole problem about all of this is that most people take their views from the information in front of them,and unfortunatly thats the TV,whether your arab ,turk greek,brit or american most people dont have all the information in front of them and even then it comes down to how that information influences you.
I am not a muslim,I dont want to be,I dont want my child to be or be influenced by your teaching's other than the basics to understand that not everyone feels or thinks the same way,but that they can still live with each other in peace.
The cartoons make me think this;- 1-
that muslims out of a huge devotion to their prophet are insulted because for whatever reason, the prophet has been drawn when not supposed to,never mind the insinuation that he is a terrorist or that all muslims are terrorist's,which of course they are not.
2-that the west has a long tradition of representing god,jesus,moses the prophets etc in picture form whether it is for satire or worship,and that in western society not all may like this but that it is put up with in order to keep the peace,and that in it's self it is not insulting.
3-so for one it is an insult,for the other it is is not.The situation can be redeemed by respecting the wishes of the hurt party by not insulting that party again but it is not as simple as that.
4-If that means that the west cannot make a graphic representation of the prophet again for the rest of eternity,then that is not acceptable to people like me.the Reason for this is that justice and fairness in a balanced world has to be SEEN to be just that.There are too many injustices being seen in western countries whether rightly or wrongly when it comes to immigration and the question of Islam.
You cannot stop worship of one faith in one land and expect freedom of worship in another,you cannot expect treatment as an equal and not get it back in return.The west and especially britain for so long now has given everything over to political correctness that there is a backlash occurring,everything is given over to accommadate those from foriegn lands ,yet in the lands people are coming from we are not accommadated.It is not fair,britain is not Saudi and is a democracy but that means nothing to the common man in the street ,he see's others being given preferential treatment over himself,whether this is true or not and this is where the situation is getting dangerous and extremes come into play.
5-So to round off the cartoons are also about western sensibilities,We do not want to be influenced by your religion,we do not want to be told what to do.We take insults on the chin and try to become better than the person that throws them.In fact in britian I would say it is a test of a man's character to be able to take an insult and not retaliate.
As far as britain is concerned we have a pretty good multi-ethnic society that get's on quite well,but this will not last if it seems that the immigrant get's all the consideration and the original inhabitants get none.
6-So for the sake of peace take the whole thing with a pinch of salt,show us what you are made of and show us your strength of character.We do things our way here pretty well and you do your's where ever you are your way,It is a clash of temprement and cultures accept our faults please and we will accept yours in peace.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 21:11 by Al @ : sorry that was meant for Hanan Taha

9 Feb 2006 @ 22:37 by MISHKA @ : PEOPLE WITH NOTHING TO LOSE
muslims are all the same. stupid with inferiority complex. sorry but you will never be as clever as the european or jewish people. you are always at the bottom. thats why you wanting to kill yourselves and as many people. thats why islam is for all the loosers of the world. PEOPLE WITH NOTHING TO LOSE!  

9 Feb 2006 @ 23:09 by Al @ : mishka
mishka you are an arsehole,most european or western maths is taken from the islamic world,astrology also.Have you seen the Alhambra palace in Granada Spain.Muslim architecture at its finest and for it's time there is no better example of man's union with nature through art.Let's give credit where credit is due EH?Idiot!  

9 Feb 2006 @ 23:23 by uk boy @ : uk
i know for a fact that if there is one more fuckin cowardly bombin that me and my people aint gonna take this shit no more and im speakin on behalf of a lot of fuckin people there will be a war on british land against muslims trust me. Muslims say that british people are scared of the unknown thats why were after muslims. do we know fuck all about hinduism NO but we dont go afetr them do we.Because there decent people. were fukin u up beacuse u tried to fuck us up and that cant be done thank god for the western world freedom of speech is fuckin wonderful if i was in iran they would be after my head stupid idiots. Think who has the best god u cant do fuck all and get punished for it we do wahtever we want and live young and free u must be devastated you cant make a peaceful cicilistion thats the worst thing of all its like your about 500 years behind us still tryin to go on a crusade grow the fuck up other wise u wont get anywhere thats my opinon and because im livin in the uk i can what i fuckin like ha ha ha ha ha  

10 Feb 2006 @ 01:13 by Anonymous @ : RELIGION is the problem!
Islam is merely the worst case scenario of the real problem: fundamentalism itself. Christians in America blow up abortion clinics and want a Christian version of Iran. Zionist Jews invented the Truck Bomb in the 1930s. It's past time for humanity to give up the superstitions and get over it. As far as moslems and the cartoons, if the sandal fits...

Also, multiculturalism doesn't work well. Where I work, a place was used as a makeshift mosque by some moslems. But they'd wash their feet in a sink used by others to wash dishes. So, the "mosque" was fenced off. The problem here is the culture difference causing friction, completely unnecessary and in the name of "diversity". We need to re-think about if "diversity" is REALLY a good thing.  

10 Feb 2006 @ 02:18 by vibrani : Diversity
isn't so bad when it isn't forced all of the time. I find that in the large city in which I live ethnic groups tend to stick to themselves. In public schools and some private there is diversity, but at home people pretty much stay with people who share their culture and language with maybe a few exceptions.

Religious centers, temples, churches, mosques, do have mutlicultural events, and that's a good idea so people get to know more about others and then fear (and then hatred or stereotypes, and the sort) can't seep in to extent it can if people remain totally isolated.

Speaking only for myself, I don't think work places and public schools, public or governmental buildings should be places of worship or religious events. There must be separation of religion and state.  

10 Feb 2006 @ 04:06 by Rick @ : Be responsible
Come on Anonymous ...lunatics exist in every society. Saying Religion is the problem ranks right up their with "Guns kill people". Sorry, some ONE holds the trigger. For others, it's not a trigger they use but their tongue. Same effect.

If I learned one thing from my Political Science professor, it's that the Left and the Right are not on a line but a circle. Swing too far in either direction and you reach anarchy. Not exactly a case of opposites attract but pretty darn close.  

10 Feb 2006 @ 04:34 by Tom Dennis @ : Mohammed Cartoon
Dear Hanan you have kind of a logical point. And I don’t know where you live or how you live. But I’ll tell you something. I have been in the Middle East for sometime. And many (almost all the people) of the normal people really appreciated what Taliban did to those statues.

And it is funny I did not hear any Muslim saying that it is bad—of course except some people like you NOW.

And with regard to “ sometimes ” they do bad action sounds more like that Taliban had been a very good regime which made a small mistake which is forgivable?  

10 Feb 2006 @ 05:54 by Rick @ : Indoctrination, Wtfdude
Thanks, Wtfdude. Reality must trump theory, even when reality is horrible. Indoctrination explains it doesn’t it? What else can rationalize murder as a ‘statement’ but belief that the enemy is sub human. Any religious sect that embraces that combination is ... well ... evil. It can be stamped out by external force but it can only be solved from within. Note I said sect, NOT the religion.  

10 Feb 2006 @ 06:03 by Rick @ : Indoctrination, Wtfdude
In anticipation of those telling me how wrong I am and how many ways I can die, nope sorry, you are wrong. That combination cannot be rationalized away. The ends cannot justify those means.  

10 Feb 2006 @ 08:43 by MISHKA @ : BARBARIC MUSLIMS
muslims never invented anything! the want to use western technologies but not westerns values.they want respect, but really for what? for being barbaric and so stupid.  

10 Feb 2006 @ 13:39 by ali @ : horse glasses
you europeans are all so stupid,racist, antidemocratic, double faced liers. You always keep saying that all people are equal but always prove that some are more equal. You have no idea about tolerance. You have always treated people separately according to their races, colors ,beliefs, social classes etc eversince the world history and it seems that nothing has changed now. I don't have any hope that it will change in the next few thousand years.  

10 Feb 2006 @ 14:44 by Hanan Taha @ : ....
Wtfdude chill out > Stating the actions of terrorists ( who relate themselves to Islam which is not true),then I'll state some western actions against Muslims because every action ( invasion which is approved by most of u) has a reaction(terrorism which is not approved by most of us):

- U.S.A invasion to Iraq killing women,childern and raping young girls claiming it is a way make Iraq a free and democratic country, Bah!!...
- Torturing Iraqi prisoners by American soldiers in Iraqi prison ( Abou-Ghraib) including the sex assaults done by a psycho woman ( named England).
- Torturing muslims in Goantanamo prisons wildly.

Shall I continue? unfortonately, It is countless !!

Ah !! by the way, Denmark was the 1st country to approve the invasion to Iraq...just in case u say it is a neutral country..

at last, I didn't want this conversation to go on this way , but it seems u have certain ways of denying the FAIR way of thinking.  

10 Feb 2006 @ 14:45 by mishka @ : loser union
nice try! do you think you are more democratic or less double faced liers?the thing is with you muslims, you are all looking for power. and bec you cant get that power trougt intelligence (bec you have non) you turn to islam which is the loser union, and bec its a violent cult that hate everyone, it does give you that false feeling of power.and thats all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

10 Feb 2006 @ 15:45 by Some French Dude @ : ...
Ali : "you europeans are all so stupid,racist, antidemocratic, double faced liers"

Look who is talking !... congrats Ali, you speak like a true double-faced muslim liar !

mishka : " you are all looking for power. and bec you cant get that power trougt intelligence (bec you have non) you turn to islam which is the loser union, and bec its a violent cult that hate everyone, it does give you that false feeling of power.and thats all"

Well said, I agree with you.  

10 Feb 2006 @ 16:35 by Anonymous @ : Reapt the truth
Khamenei is wrong on equating Holocaust denial to publishing satirical cartoons that make political points on a religion hijacked by fundamentalists who are forcing taboos onto non-believers as well as believers. Imagine, that, I could invent a cucumber religion, that states anyone who eats a cucumber is committing blasphemy and must have their heads cut off. And IF YOU DARE PROVOKE ME FILMING YOURSELF EATING A CUCUMBER WE WILL GET YOU GOOD.

In some European countries they have banned Holocaust denial, because they equate it with telling a lie that insults the victims and hence it is considered libel. I think such laws are misguided, and so do among other countries Denmark and Norway. In these countries libel has to be proven on a case to case basis. And simply having an erroneous opinion is not enough unless it can be proven the opinion is based on deliberate lies designed to maliciously ruin reputations and cause financial harm.  

10 Feb 2006 @ 16:37 by Anonymous @ : Repeat the truth
Khamenei is wrong on equating Holocaust denial to publishing satirical cartoons that make political points on a religion hijacked by fundamentalists who are forcing taboos onto non-believers as well as believers. Imagine, that, I could invent a cucumber religion, that states anyone who eats a cucumber is committing blasphemy and must have their heads cut off. And IF YOU DARE PROVOKE ME FILMING YOURSELF EATING A CUCUMBER WE WILL GET YOU GOOD.

In some European countries they have banned Holocaust denial, because they equate it with telling a lie that insults the victims and hence it is considered libel. I think such laws are misguided, and so do among other countries Denmark and Norway. In these countries libel has to be proven on a case to case basis. And simply having an erroneous opinion is not enough unless it can be proven the opinion is based on deliberate lies designed to maliciously ruin reputations and cause financial harm.  

10 Feb 2006 @ 16:40 by Anonymous @ : tell the truth
Khamenei is wrong on equating Holocaust denial to publishing satirical cartoons that make political points on a religion hijacked by fundamentalists who are forcing taboos onto non-believers as well as believers. Imagine, that, I could invent a cucumber religion, that states anyone who eats a cucumber is committing blasphemy and must have their heads cut off. And IF YOU DARE PROVOKE ME FILMING YOURSELF EATING A CUCUMBER WE WILL GET YOU GOOD.

In some European countries they have banned Holocaust denial, because they equate it with telling a lie that insults the victims and hence it is considered libel. I think such laws are misguided, and so do among other countries Denmark and Norway. In these countries libel has to be proven on a case to case basis. And simply having an erroneous opinion is not enough unless it can be proven the opinion is based on deliberate lies designed to maliciously ruin reputations and cause financial harm.  

10 Feb 2006 @ 16:42 by Anonymous @ : And the truth shall set you free
Khamenei is wrong on equating Holocaust denial to publishing satirical cartoons that make political points on a religion hijacked by fundamentalists who are forcing taboos onto non-believers as well as believers. Imagine, that, I could invent a cucumber religion, that states anyone who eats a cucumber is committing blasphemy and must have their heads cut off. And IF YOU DARE PROVOKE ME FILMING YOURSELF EATING A CUCUMBER WE WILL GET YOU GOOD.

In some European countries they have banned Holocaust denial, because they equate it with telling a lie that insults the victims and hence it is considered libel. I think such laws are misguided, and so do among other countries Denmark and Norway. In these countries libel has to be proven on a case to case basis. And simply having an erroneous opinion is not enough unless it can be proven the opinion is based on deliberate lies designed to maliciously ruin reputations and cause financial harm.  

10 Feb 2006 @ 17:12 by Some French Dude @ : p
... why the 4x spam Anonymous ? :(

Btw, you are very wrong about the Cucumber Worshipper...most are quite moderate, normal people. Some of my best friends worship Cucumbers and I can tell you that none of them consider eating cucumbers a crime... only extremists will send you death threats for a salad.
... now of course, introducing Cucumbers in ANY other body cavity than the mouth IS blashphemy.  

10 Feb 2006 @ 17:21 by Al @ : some home truths
Lets be honest about a few things here.The war in Iraq is about oil and the dollar.Oil keeps the world moving at the moment and the american dollar is in the driving seat.If that is the reality of the situation then as far as I am concernerned the wars in Iraq and afganistan are a doudle edged sword.
Why the fuck would we the west want a nutter like Saddam,back stabbing us,invading his neighbours so he controls the oil,and then he himself antaganizes his neighbours into extreme measures so that you get a bunch of mullahs and fanatics in charge of the oil.You dont want that so we take the oil.Simple.If we can distribute the wealth a little along the way and make these countries more stable for our interests and in the long term theirs then even better.Religion starts going down the pan when you give people the oppurtunity to gain material wealth.Has anyone else noticed that the more money muslims get the less religious they are?they buy all the BMW, mercs etc and cruise the streets which is great cos then they arent goin to the mosques.
Cental asia is awash with gas and oil and unfortunately for the foreseeable future the powers that be need it .We need to invest in other technologies but that aint going to happen over night,so the west ,russia and china are goin to take it off the little irresponsible muslims of the region so that the fat cats make more money and I can sit in my little semi write shit to you lot,go to work in my car,have a meal out now and then,and generally lead for now a nice little life.
If this seems selfish then I am trying to honest.Those that go to oil protests are kidding themselves,watch them shout out when opec start callin the shots.Those that protest at the war are fooling themselves,watch them shout out when some nutter like the president of Iran has biult his bomb or Hamas is trying to wipe out all our detriment.
When it comes to the crunch life is about self-interest.Ask Bin laden.The yanks give him weapons to fight the russians then the saudi's wouldnt let him lead his own lille saudi army agaanst them,so what does he do? Call for the destruction of the house of saud which made his family very rich and the destruction of america who supports them and helped him get rid of the russians.Thats thanks for you!
Better the our lot in charge of the oil,better our lot making lives better in the long run,if muslims want to continue having a shit life then just keep being ruled by the arseholes that keep stepping all over you ie your own un-elected governments.AT LEAST WHEN OURS STEP OUT OF LINE WE CAN VOTE THEM OUT.!  

10 Feb 2006 @ 18:25 by Captain Bloodloss @ : The bombs
How come everybody is deeply concerned about the Iran bomb when there are so many of them in the hands of other countries.
You should also be concerned about disarmement of other already bomb holders instead of worrying about a possibly bomb holder.
Iranian man is crazy there is no doubt about that but what about the IDIOT?
USA is the only country in the history to ever use nuclear bombs.

It's good to be against Irans nuclear dreams but you gotta be fair, who holds the bigger guns?  

10 Feb 2006 @ 18:40 by Anonymous @ : Cucumber
1. My bad. I was trying to counter Goebbels' law on "repeating a lie enough times to make it true in the public perception".

2. Good one, French Dude.  

10 Feb 2006 @ 18:45 by A Dane @ : to Captain Bloodloss
US do, we all know that, would you prefer it was the other way around, I know I wouldn’t….

Have a nice day.  

10 Feb 2006 @ 19:56 by Ron @ : How can you call someone making fun.....
of Islam racist. Islam is religion, not a race. There are white muslims, black muslims, oriental muslims. There's no need to play the race card.  

10 Feb 2006 @ 20:07 by Al @ : captain bloodloss
dont be so niave captain.while it is worrying that pakistan,india and north korea have the bomb the fact that some religeous zealot might hold the key to it is far more disturbing,and dont say Bush is one cos Bush doesnt condone or fund suicide bombers.Americaa is the only country to use but so what! It was for a different time and place and it should be recognised that it is a credit to preceeding US governments that they have held back from using it again,because they are sane and rational people,and all you anti-american fuckers should remember that the free air you breathe is down to the yanks.Yes some of them are of there heads but if it wasnt for america you wouldnt be able to talk half the shite that is on this site.

Im fuckin sick of you die hard lefty liberals with your apologies of the past and your excuses for the communist and terrorist regimes as if it was all americas fault.Someones got to stand up to these murdering absolututist arseholes and the likes of you are not the ones to do it,so leave it to those that have a grasp of reality and go back to skulking in your dreamlands.  

10 Feb 2006 @ 21:09 by Chico @ : Everyone is blind to the irony
Many of the same people who are upset at this reaction by Muslims around the world are the same ones who would cry "boycott" or "protest" to an art show or movie dipicting a derogatory image of Christ, Princess Diana, Ghandi, or Mother Teresa. We hold these figures up beacons of hope and purity. Anyone who smears these figures risk hatred and outrage from the public. Boycotting and protesting is not as violent but it is the strongest expression of disdain many citizens use to indicate a piece of work was done in "poor taste." Subjectivity is sometimes the only thing that seperates heretics from artists with poor tastes. We should learn from this experience. Before we call these people barbaric and ignorant, we should take a long look in the mirror and reflect on how similar they are to our own societies. We don't have to like it, but we also shouldn't stigmatize the entire group for it.  

10 Feb 2006 @ 21:43 by mishka @ : no white muslims
there are no white muslims! well unless he or she left a satanic cult and join another.  

11 Feb 2006 @ 00:25 by Cyrus @ : Religion: the OPIUM of the people
The most interesting thing is how everyone likes saying that Prophet X or Y said this or that, sort of the same way some Chinese say,"According to our venerated leader Mao,....." or "As Mao would say...", when everyone know that Mao was responsible for the death of a billion of his countrymen during the so-called Cultural Revolution. Same goes with Hitler; had the Germans won the war, we would be venerating him as a messiah, much like the Germans were in the 30's. In any case, it's sad to see that people actually follow and obey what another human being said 1,000-2,000 years ago and that they justify their lives and habits based on what that somebody else said. Visibly, mankind evolves slowly. As science says, one of the greatest things in life is certainly to learn, but foremost to question everything. Imagine if, just like most religous people never question their faith (which are more than questionable), nobody questioned the central tenet of Medival Catholic Europe, that the earth was flat!!! One can only wonder why people are so devout to a myriad of fairy tales, but that they rarely give a damn for the well being of their neighbors or even for the needy of this world!?


11 Feb 2006 @ 01:20 by Captain Bloodloss @ : Al
I am saying that not only Iran should not have nukes but also all the other countries especially USA should be disarmed of nuclear weapons.
If that seems so crazy and anti american to you that's that.

And why is it always it was a different time and a different place when it comes to your country( that's not just you Al but everybody) but when it comes to muslims they are crazy terrorist bastards?

What happened to giving the credit when the credit is due?
What Americe is doing to the non-american is somewhat terrrorism but they just pretend like it's ok relaaax dude (just like saddam in Southpark)
That does not clear, justify or legalize anything.

Afghanistan and Iraq has nothing to do with the so called "war on terrorism"
ıt's about opium and oil and new bases for the U.S army. that's it.  

11 Feb 2006 @ 01:27 by Captain Bloodloss @ : about the air
if the yanks are so sensitive about the air I breath then USA should sign the Kyoto treaty.  

11 Feb 2006 @ 01:31 by Cyrus @ : Reponse to Wtfdude chill out
Very true. Actually the current American foreign policy is concentrated on one argument: AMERICAN ECONOMIC INTERESTS. The invasion of Iraq occurred, so that the United States could ensure future oil availability and slow down the economic development of the so-called BRIC nations (Brazil, Russia, India, China), who at the current rate will surpass the American Economy in ten to twenty years. Their hunger for oil to ensure their economic growth is their only weakness, that the US is currently trying to exploit in order to guarantee American Economic Superiority. However, with things turning sour in Iraq, it seems that those plans weren't so great to begin with. I guess the real victors in Iraq are Halliburton and Iran. As they say: It isn't a game of checkers, but a game of chess. Also, I wish the US would stick to their motto of spreading democracy and freedom around the world, though I haven't seen anyone (The West and rest of the world)crying foul when the massacres in Rwanda occurred or anybody giving a rat's ass about Sudan. I guess those poor people don't have anything to offer for their "liberation", unlike the Iraqis with all the yummy oil. (Sarcasm). Like I said, it's all about the Economic Interests.  

11 Feb 2006 @ 01:43 by vibrani : Haven't seen anyone?
Well, that's not true, even movies have been made about it, but you can only do so much. Should the U.S. solve everybody's problems for them? We're in debt up to our necks because of wars and helping other countries, diasasters, and some of it is just very poor waste and bad management. Since Muslims are murdering millions in Africa, can Muslim countries be asked to send aid? Then there is AIDS. Who should solve these problems? Only America? There's the U.N. Europe on its own doesn't seem to want to spread democracy and freedom around the world. How much aid are they giving to Africa - anyone know? How about the richest little country - the Vatican? How much money are they sending to help? Or are they just encouraging those people not to have birth control and pray?  

11 Feb 2006 @ 01:58 by Cyrus @ : Liberty, deomcracy, freedom=excuses
Actually, America shouldn't have to help anyone. The problem is that American foreign policy is almost exclusively linked to American Economic Interests, even when these interests run contrary to the very interests the United States claims to be promoting (freedom, democracy, blah, blah, blah). I think we should only recognize this instead of coming up with the typical lame-ass response for invading Iraq:" Uh..Uh...To promote democracy to a people who have never experienced it..." Might as well just say that we are helping monkeys walk, since for the past 3,000 years they have been hanging from trees (sarcasm).  

11 Feb 2006 @ 02:18 by Cyrus @ : Response to Al @
Actually, the region had a plethora of religions and beliefs way before Mohammed. The Persians were Zoroastrians at the time and had been for hundreds of years. In any case, religion was created for two purposes:

1. To teach the uneducated fools of the day about social behavior and scientific knowledge: for example: Muslims were told not to eat pork, because pork was/is dirty. Actually, it was because uncooked pork could contain a worm, that at the time could kill (and make you pretty ill nowadays). Evidently, a farmer couldn't understand this, so it was necessary to explain it to him in layman's terms. I can forgive the farmer for telling me that he doesn't eat pork, because his religion says it's dirty, but that educated people say that, is beyond me.

2. To control the mass: religion is the single greatest invention when it comes to controlling people. One only needs to instill fear of God. Once you succeed in doing that, you can make your followers do anything:"Kiss my ass or God will punish you!"

Evidently, the greater the lie, the more people will believe it.  

11 Feb 2006 @ 03:27 by Rick @ : Religion created?
Really? A bunch of control freaks got together eons ago and deduced a really cool way to stay well fed and reproduce was to invent something we now call religion? Hmmm. They must have been incredibly savy and inuitive.  

11 Feb 2006 @ 05:15 by vibrani : Think we'll soon see
several Muslim Arab women competing in the Olympics? (I wouldn't hold my breath.)  

11 Feb 2006 @ 08:18 by vibrani : Olympics
sure made a loud statement about world peace tonight. I hope some day you'll join us, and the world will live as one....gee I wonder who that was directed to? John Lennon's "Imagine" was perfect timing. Did you notice the cauldron was a havdalah candle? I didn't see any Arab/Muslim women athletes there. One woman from Algeria, but I don't know who she is. Stunning opening ceremonies - Parvarotti still rocks.  

11 Feb 2006 @ 10:16 by Al @ : capt blood
Capt I said it was for oil and money and so on and that for those reasons I still agree with the 'the wars'.If you cannot understand that your way of life depends heavily on both things then your misgiuded.How many showers you have a week,how much food do you eat,how warm is your house,how much petrol do you use,how much TV do you watch,how long are you on your computer,how many presents do your kids get at christmas....the list goes on and it has all been linked to american dominace in the world.
Do you want your world to go backwards I doubt it!Lets move forward and drag the rest of the backward world with us.

Also imagine a land where you cant fly kites ,you cant listen to music,your daughters cant be educated,you cant practice your faith,you cant drink alcohol,people are shot for having affairs,you have to have a beard,your woman cannot get proper medical attention becuase a man cant lay his eyes on the woman,certain people have to wear a yellow star to show that they are different,and a place where they harbour terrorists.The list goes on.

If anyone hand on heart can justify no military action against such a regime then you have no real love for the world and are only interested in in your life.

If this regime were a white regime then I bet all you lefties would soon be calling for it's head,but as soon as it is a place of people with darker skin you say let them get on with it cos you dont want to be branded racist.
Fuck! Most of my freinds are 'lefty' and they dont know how to speak to dark skinned or muslim people,they all clam up and look as if they dont know how to talk to them.
They are people like you and me and if they are wrong they should be told so.Like you or me!  

11 Feb 2006 @ 14:45 by mishka @ : WAKE UP
we are all going to be sorry for being to soft with the muslims. they are out to kill us. and all we do is debating. they want to kill the all people of denemark for a cartoon. they blame the all nation of denemark, and we the west must not blame the all of islam for all their murderous crimes.when are we going to see the truth for what it is?  

11 Feb 2006 @ 20:23 by Cyrus @ : To Al
Your comment reminds me of the time my mother fell in the street in Teheran,Iran. All the men that gathered around her felt so sorry for her and were extremely kind. Problem was, even though they really wanted to, they couldn't touch her in order to help her back on her feet. That is really lame: not helping a lady in need out of fear of reprisal. Obviously this is an example of how people are brainwashed by religion. In my opinion religion as a whole is poison; a plague that should be annihilated to give way to reason and logic. At the same time, people should be educated in the only word of God: love. Sounds idiolistic and cheesy, but in reality that is the single most important thing in our lives and obviously it is somewhat absent in today's (and yesterday's) world. Instead, we get to hear the filth and nonsense spewing from the mouths of all extremists in this world, whether they be Muslim, Catholic, Christian, Orthodox Jews,etc... who all amazingly believe that they know God (IF he exists) or what God wants and have the nerve to do anything they want and justify it by saying " In the name of God". It would be as though to kill and steal and to then justify it by saying "In the name of George W. Bush". Come to think of it, that would be funny.


11 Feb 2006 @ 20:35 by Cyrus @ : No such thing as "arab"
Also, we should refrain from referring to inhabitants of the Middle East (a regional name) as arabs. In fact, from Iran to India the population is mostly ethnically, culturally and linguistically Indo-European. However, there are many other ethnicitiess such as the Turkmen tribes of northern Iran and Afghanistan that are descendants of the Mongolians (and still have squinted eyes) and north African tribes in Southern Iran that are dark in color. Secondly, believing that Lebanese, Moroccans, Saudis,etc.. are of the same ethnicity is ludicrious. Even though they speak the same language, they all look different. The only reason that we have this arabian myth is thanks to Lawrence of Arabia and the British that wanted to unify these different people under one mythic ethnicity called "arab" in order to dismantle the Ottoman Empire. In my opinion, the only real arabs are the people inhabiting the Arabian Peninsula.  

11 Feb 2006 @ 23:52 by mishka @ : culture of killers
CYRUS i dont have mercy for people who cut captives are all the same. you have a culture of killers. look at your crazy presedent.  

12 Feb 2006 @ 00:30 by Nancy Card @ : Muslims
These people have been killing themselves and others for thousands of years. It's their way of life. The cartoons are just another reason to KILL. I wish they would stay in their own countries and kill each other.  

12 Feb 2006 @ 02:25 by vibrani : Well, they do that, too.
Muslims are somehow comparing Islam to the Holocaust. They say if someone can draw cartoons about Mohammad, they have the right to question the reality of the Holocaust. Are they insane? The Holocaust was a REAL event sixty years ago, and it's very well documented, and there are survivors still alive, soldiers still alive, Nazis still alive, concentration camps still standing from that time! All these bigots have to do is get out of their mosques and check them out. How dare they insult people in my family and millions of others who were tortured, branded with numbers on their wrists, or killed by the Nazis! Islam is a religion. There are no films or newspapers or photos of Mohammad. No survivors alive today who can tell anyone what really happened. It's like a belief in God or the devil - you can't prove either one exists, but it's your choice whether to believe in them or not. NO COMPARISON!  

12 Feb 2006 @ 03:02 by Cyrus @ : To Mishka
Ok, now you'll get my diatribe. The real Persians are Indo-Europeans, commonly referred to as Aryans (the Persian language as well as Kurdish are related to all European languages; go look it up yourself). The Persian Empire at its might (some 2,500 years ago) produced fine kings, chief among them Cyrus The Great. He freed the Jews from captivity in Babylonia and thereby issued the first human rights decree (the so-called Cyrus Cylinder), which is now housed in the United Nations. The Persians have successfully defeated the Romans several times and captured two Roman Emperors (one of which was treated with the outmost respect and freed later) . Persians have always accepted immigrants fleeing other regimes, such as the Kurds when they fled Saddam and have contributed to science far more than one would think: If not for the Egyptians, Persians, and Babylonians there would be no Islamic civilization. Most of the Mathematics people think comes from the "arabs" actually comes from the Persians.
That camel-fucking whore named Omar (MOhammed's follower) who came out of his godforsaken desert in Saudia Arabia and with his thugs killed off the Persian Empire (in the name of God no less) and FORCEFULLY imposed Islam onto the Persians (some fled and became known as the Parsis in India; others that didn't accept the new religion were persecuted) should burn in hell. Furthermore, Persians were at the origin of the first Monotheistic religion (Zoroastrianism) that defined heaven and hell and whatnot. Our three Zoroastrian Priests (the Magi) were the ones who historically visited the Infant Christ. The true Persia is turned more towards the West and India (as demonstrated by the frustrated youth of the country) and Iran during the Shah's time was more western than ever (and an Israeli ally I may add).
Now, in an apple there are always worms. Ever since Islam has come to Iran, Persians have been fucked over. The religion simply does not work in a country where people enjoy and celebrate life through poets, gardens (the famed Persian Gardens) and believe family life and peace and tranquility are important. Persians used to (and still do in private) drink wine and produced the famed SHIRAZ grape that is grown everywhere (mostly in Australia). Persians love dancing and invented games such as backgammon and polo. They love nature and picnics next to streams. In essence, Persians are similar to Italians and Spaniards in their love of life. That is the true Persian. Some of them however have been so brain-washed with religion, that their brain is like potato mush. And this so-called President, is the greatest filth this earth could produce. He deliberately venerates a mass murderer (the late Khomeini) and glorifies a religion that I personally hate to the bone. Why? This religion is responsible for turning Iran 1000 years back, is destroying the hopes and aspirations of the young generation (who hate these old Mullahs), and is indirectly responsible for the death of my mother's family, my mother included. So, you know what, don't give me this Iran = culture of killers crap. Go get an education before making such silly and ludicrous assumptions. If it were me, I would have Islam removed from Iran and I would kick out this minority of fanatics (the President and his clique = The Basij). I would have all the Mosques downright destroyed. I would kick all the Mullahs out of the country. These FUCKS even went to the grave of the father of the last king (a man who much like Ataturk tried to secularize Islam) and turned his tomb into a public bathroom!!! And then they build a golden shrine for that sick fucking bastard Khomeini who probably is eating crap in hell. All religious zealots are liars and crooks (this President even believes he is the Messiah) and should pay for doing the most horrific things in the name of God. I sometimes wish God would make them pay.
So you should watch what you are saying. IN reality, Iranians (Persians) have many different religious backgrounds: many are Jewish, Catholic or Zoroastrian. Just because those nuts claim that Islam is the official religion of Iran, does not mean the majority sees it that way. Actually in recent years, there has been a rise in interest for the ancient Zoroastrian faith. Furthermore, it is Al-Qaeda that is responsible for cutting people's heads off. So I don't see the link with Iran.


12 Feb 2006 @ 03:21 by vibrani : Mesopotamia
The ancient area and civilization brought in writing, math, agriculture, water canals, a heck of a lot of inventions happened there that of course became part of every nation. It wasn't responsible for Islam. Neither was ancient Egypt, where there were the two camps - those who believed in the ancient gods and goddesses, and those who joined Akhenaton's belief in one god. And it wasn't Mohammad! Do you know the history of the Anunnaki, Enlil who I think was the originator of Islam, as well as the battles that continue to this day. and

Yes, the Persians are not and were not Arabs, they have a very distinctly different culture and language.  

12 Feb 2006 @ 03:26 by KL @ : Respect is what we need!
I am a muslim,as a muslim WE JUST NEED A "RESPECT"!!!  

12 Feb 2006 @ 03:31 by Cyrus @ : To Vibrani
Well said. Actually, it is really incredible that people worship other human beings that lived thousands of years ago, when no one today knows who they really were. They might have been charlatans or murderers. Look at Hitler, who was considered a demi-god or Messiah by the Germans in the 20's and 30's. Had he won the war, people would actually believe that he was a Messiah. Then look at Khomeini who murdered hundreds of Iran's Royalists and other opposition figures and who today has a golden shrine in his name. The same 400 idiots (the Basij=religious veterans of the Iran-Iraq war brainwashed into Islam to their eyeballs and who regularly kick and beat the young pro-western generation in Iran)that vandalized the Danish embassy over cartoons go to his tomb and venerate that sick fuck. I can see it now: in 100 years people will say that he was a saint. And how about the so-called Imam Hossein, a warrior man who was only after personally glory and wealth and who used Islam to make himself a saint. The moron was killed outside of a city in Iraq 1,000 years ago in a war with a rival who even warned him not to invade his city!! And today, some people in Shiite Islam bash their heads with axes and whip themselves with chains in remembrance to that imbecile. Why don't we take the Hajj (visit to Mecca), while we are at it; all those millions and millions of fools that turn around the Kaaba, that black house that houses a ROCK. Yes, yes, it is a piece of meteorite that fell on earth thousands of years ago. And some fool (and I can understand him since people were ignorant at the time) picked it up and said,"Oh! This is from God! And so I will put it in a room and call it the house of God!". And presto, the Kaaba at the center of the Mecca was created. It is rather funny (and sad) to see people travelling miles and miles to walk around a piece of ROCK! And the tragic part is that people actually die there every year from exhaustion or from being trampeled upon by other brainwashed zombies like themselves. And let us also look at some Jewish people that pray to God in front of a brick wall (the Wall of Lamentations). This, someone has to explain to me, because it really sounds just as silly as turning around a rock.And how about all those Roman Catholics that went into trance in some Italian city when they saw the image of Virgin (????) Mary on a wall produced by the shadow of a metal gate!! At this rate, I should go and declare myself a Prophet and invent some nonsense. I am sure many fools will follow me. Wouldn't it be great if I could make them worship a turd directly from my asshole? Maybe if I can persuade them that I ate some magical food given to me by God they might even lick it. And so you see how religion is just another tool (like the Media) to control the mass and make people do anything, no matter how silly, illogical and dangerous it is: for this part just look at all the poor kids in the Iran-Iraq war that were given a plastic key (made in Taiwan) as there access to heaven if they would be kind enough to walk firsthand through minefields (effectively clearing them for the real soldiers). THIS IS A SICK,SICK WORLD THAT WE LIVE IN.  

12 Feb 2006 @ 03:59 by Cyrus @ : To Vibrani
I actually was referring to the fact that scientific advances made during and before the arab invasions were effectively stolen from the countries they originated from, by the arabs who made the whole world believe that it was Islamic Civilization. That is a bunch of bullshit. Much like when the Greeks collected all the knowledge from the ancient world and claimed it was their own. The story about the birth of Islam is actually very interesting: It started when a disgruntled Persian Zoroastrian priest by the name of Salman Parsee tried to revolutionize the heavy caste system (like in India) that existed at the time under the Sassanian Persian dynasty. Obviously, the preisthood didn't agree with him and exiled him to the Arabian Peninsula, at the time a desolate area. Salman came across a man in the desert who seemed quite smart and proceeded to teach him how to act in a SOCIAL, CIVILIZED AND EGALITARIAN SOCIETY so that the man could then educate his own people. That man was Mohammed. Thereafter, all the social and philosophical words that Salman tried to teach Mohammed became the more social parts of the Koran, such as the fact that a wealthy person should give parts of his wealth to the poor and needy, the basis for the economic wealth distribution. However, everytime Mohammed could not find Salman to ask him a socio-economic question, he invented it himself. And obviously an uneducated man is going to make up the silliest, most ludicrious things. Mohammed is the one that turned Salman's teachings into religion, instead of a socio-economic doctrine like the US constitution or whatnot. Obviously, it seems as though with the arrival of that punk Omar into Persia, the Persians had effectively shot themselves in the foot. Someone should have told Salman that fools will remain fools.

I should add a rather amusing anecdote: Right after the 1979 Revolution in Iran, university entry exams contained a myriad of very Islamic questions, the kind that belongs in Children's Books given their level of stupidity. A student was asked what he would do if a woman stood up in a bus to get out. The student replied that he would sit on the vacated seat. Apparently, the answer to the question is the following:" You should not sit on the seat, because if you do, the warmth of the seat heated by the woman will go up your crotch and turn you on!!!!!" Obviously there is only one reaction to such a silly, sick answer: ALL MULLAHS ARE SEXUAL PERVERTS THAT WANT TO COVER WOMEN SO THAT:




12 Feb 2006 @ 05:06 by vibrani : Cyrus
LOLOL exactly! That bus story is a riot! It's the same old story - men can't control themselves so it's the woman's fault! It's all about sex and control and FEAR.

I know what you mean about what doesn't make sense. Everytime I see the "pilgrims" crushing each other to death as they pray to that rock I am astounded how dumb that is and people actually do it! Every day someone sees a face on something, and of course it's ALWAYS either Jesus or Mary! Maybe it was their history teacher who died? I mean, they don't know who the heck it is or what Jesus or Mary really looked like, but they don't even think of asking that face who it is and listening for an answer. E-Bay is a great place for such lunacy - buy a cheese sandwich with a face on it for thousands of dollars! The person who buys it for a museum is even more foolish than the person who sold it, I think. What that money could do to help people, instead. Many people are given the status of being gods, and most of them hardly deserved such a status. Today we have other kinds of gods - kings and queens, sports heroes, movie and music stars. The need to have someone to worship is sick. It places all parties on a false pedestal, one that always breaks. That is why people really need to connect with their own divinity within, have that "personal relationship" with God/Goddess/It.

What I think is the real message that no one seems to get is that EVERYTHING is God's creation, so if you see it in a rock or a flower or the moon or the sun or in yourself or your child or your friend or your dog or cat - it's all God. Stop labeling it as Jesus or Mary or Mohammad, separating and dividing to feel superior. See everyone and everything as God - maybe then people will act divinely towards each other. The Source created all life and loves us just as we are...why should It hate Itself and Its creations?  

12 Feb 2006 @ 05:23 by Dr. Shred @ : No such thing as "arab"
When I use the term "Arab" it's like using the term "American" knowing full well that there are African Americans, British Americans, French Americans, Vietnamese Americans, Cambodian Americans, Mexican Americans, Iranian/Persian Americans, Polish Americans, Chinese Americans, Tongan Americans, Samoan Americans, Israeli Americans, Iraqi Americans, German Americans, Russian Americans, Nicaraguan Americans, Bolivian Americans, et al, Cherokee, Sioux, Navajo, Akiachak, Aleut, Cocopah, Desmet, Winnemucca and scores of other indigenous peoples who were here before the white man colonized North America. My own ancestors emigrated from Denmark - the controversial country - at the turn of the century. I'm proud of that heritage for many reasons one being that the Danes protected their Jewish citizens from the Nazi genocide during WWII.

Nothing personal. "Arab" just sounds better than "Middle Easterner".  

12 Feb 2006 @ 05:25 by Wtfdude chill out @ : to Cyrus
ALL MULLAHS ARE IN REALITY FAGGOTS, SINCE THEY STUDY DURING THEIR ADOLESCENCE IN THE CITY OF QOM IN IRAN, IN RELGIOUS SCHOOLS WITH OTHER MALE COUNTERPARTS. OBVIOUSLY THEY HOPE THAT IF THEY COVER ALL WOMEN, STRAIGHT MEN WILL BECOME GAY AND SLEEP WITH THEM. - LOL!!!! Keep up the good info commin, I found it really Intresting about PERSIA's past, I did alot of reasearch, It is very true what you said about being its own country, but sadly it has been high jacked by those Crazy ass holes determind to bring Islam World wide, I heard that in the last Eygyptian Election some Crazy Muslim Fanatical tried to run for office and as his proposal he said he was going to bring " ISLAM WORLD WIDE " and he said that he would have done it in 10 years, I really do not want America To fall like Persia did, We have a very powerfull Military, and highly educated people that will not Submit easily to Islam FORCEFULLY without a fight, But if that crazy ass hole thug in cheif thats running Iran Gets a hand of nukes, I just wont feel very comfy anymore. recently it seems like theyres gonna be no Action against iran, all i hear is Political Sanctions ( bull shit, we attacked Iraq with Iraq Denying they had weapons of mass destruction and here we are with the president LOONY OF IRAN Talking all this Nonsense proving to be a psycho and we havent even attacked yet..tottal bull shit.) the 1979 Revolution in Iran is really saddning, i wish The united states would have taken it Like they did Comunisim... so sad...  

12 Feb 2006 @ 05:28 by vibrani : Also
no one should support Hamas with their current agenda.  

12 Feb 2006 @ 05:31 by vibrani : Dr. Shred
when one doesn't know the exact country of origin but knows the person's religion or ethnicity, it is common practice to generalize. That doesn't make it accurate, of course. African Americans are a great example of why that is done, though, because they all don't know in which country their ancestors lived aside from Africa. In my case it isn't done with an intention to disrespect the person, but because I don't have enough information about them. I do agree that the only real Arabs are those from Saudi Arabia.  

12 Feb 2006 @ 05:42 by Wtfdude chill out @ : to KL
12 Feb 2006 @ 03:26 by KL @ : Respect is what we need!
I am a muslim,as a muslim WE JUST NEED A "RESPECT"!!!

-- The fuck is that shit how am i going to respect you if your demanding it, You cant expect Running through life without problems, there are alot of ass holes out there, Just ignore them and chill out smoke a joint, I respect Peacefull Muslims who are not ass holes who need attention or feel like just because theyre muslims they are Special or some shit. Why couldent you have come online and said somthing like " I am a muslim, I do not like what Denmark did, But I wish people would have taken a more peacefull aproach " you have the right to be pissed of at the cartoons BUT YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO GO AND FIRE BOMB EMBASIES THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CARTOONS AND SEND THREATS OF A SUACIDE BOMBING AND KILLINGS AND MURDERS!!! IT GIVES YOUR GROUP A BAD IMAGE! GOD/ALLAH MADE EVERY ONE EQUAL, dont be a nazi, Allah bless you KL, Peace be appoun Mohhamad, But dont think you will recive Respect from everyone if your going to demand it like that, you gotta work for it. I have many muslims friends and they are good people. I am sorry if i have offended you but you just cant demand shit like that. take care.  

12 Feb 2006 @ 05:46 by vibrani : Respect works both ways
you need to respect yourself and others, and then you might be respected in return.  

12 Feb 2006 @ 08:14 by Wtfdude chill out @ : Vibrani
Vibrani knows what im talking about!  

12 Feb 2006 @ 10:35 by Al @ : stories
The thing is if you took the story of mohammed at its simplest you wonder why anyone with any logic could take it for anything other than ones man journey to power!  

12 Feb 2006 @ 10:48 by mishka @ : muslims will never get respect from me
muslims will never get respect from me. they are violent and never invented a thing. i know they love respect, thats why they kill people, so we get scared and respect them. but instead we just hate them!  

12 Feb 2006 @ 10:58 by mishka @ : mishka to cyrus
and cyrus why shouldnt we blame the all of the muslim world for beeing killers? the muslim world blames the all europe for a cartoon. you dont fool me with your sick heads. annd i am glad to know that you dont fool many others.  

12 Feb 2006 @ 11:06 by vibrani : Muslims
I'm really tired of your hypocrisy. You can't be a real "Muslim" if you don't accept Israel's right to exist, and the Jewish people - you came from them through Abraham, and Jerusalem (where is the Dome of the Rock, Al Aqsa, and the site of the Western Wall, and first and second Jewish Temples) is where Isacc was almost sacrificed. And if you don't believe that Jews lived in ancient Israel, remember this Jewish guy named Jesus, who you say is a prophet you respect (along with Moses)? Instead of finding every excuse to use Israel as your scapegoat for everything imagined, you should be defending it. But Palestinian Muslims sure recognize Israel when it comes to getting a check every month from them! You talk about Zionism, as if it's evil. What about Islamism? Anyone seen a map? Look at all the Muslim nations just surrounding Israel...Muslim run governments by Islamic law. That's okay but one tiny Jewish nation isn't? Hypocrites. And before you order the rest of the world around, get your own house in order. Grow up. A spiritual society is one that takes full self-responsibility, is honest, and has compassion and integrity.  

12 Feb 2006 @ 13:54 by LulaQ @ : fundamentalism
IMO, the controversy over these cartoons is a product of fundamentalism.
Let's face it...wherever there is ignorance and lack of education, fundamentalism will flourish, no matter what the religion. Let's stop characterizing all Muslims by the "fundamentalist" ones who are the terrorists. I wish the world would also stop characterizing all Christians, indeed all Americans, in some cases, based on the fundamentalist Christian ones and their imp in the White House.  

12 Feb 2006 @ 15:25 by Captain Bloodloss @ : Al
Of course we should be grateful for what america brought to our lives that are positive.

And of course we must work for the people who had the misfortune to be born in a closed and oppressed society.And better their lives.

But come on that's not what U.S is doing or aiming to do. A few days ago Israeli minister of Foreign affairs said "I think we'll be missing Saddam and his regime"

Things are worse than what it was before invasion and getting worse.
If U.S.A had spend half the money spent in Afg. and Iraq on helping people on these regions with better education and better life conditions the terrosim would have been a very small issue now but it has grown a lot more since the War on Terrorism started.(if the case was about helping people)

When you invade a country torture their people, humiliate them and take their only financial source from them it is hard for them to think

"yes these people are here to help us, they will give us a beter life."

And it is hard for me to think that U.S is really there to help anybody but itself  

12 Feb 2006 @ 16:23 by MISHKA @ : mishka to lula
you cant fool us. stop hiding behind words. YOU MUSLIMS ARE ALL TERRORIST! GET OUT OF THE WEST! YOU ARENT WANTED!  

12 Feb 2006 @ 17:19 by theKID @ : reprint
I'd like to see these cartoons republished in every paper, everyday until these uneducated camel jockeys learn to deal with it.  

12 Feb 2006 @ 19:45 by AL @ : capt blood
I didnt say the US wasnt helping itself,I was saying that we live on the power of the US and if that goes down so does our comfortable lifestyles.Plus the usaul aid and help that the west gives to impoverished nations around the world.Which lets face it runs into billions even if you only consider charitable contributions from groups and individuals.If the individual does not have the money or lifestyles that he has, there will be many people worse of than they are now.
I dont know the figures either but I,m sure the war in Iraq has cost the US far more than they are getting out of the place.I also agree with you that it must be hard for the people of Iraq to think any different than you say but only time will show if there is any proof in the pudding.
You are still being niave as well.America did not start the war on terror,america has re-acted to a terrorist threat,whether it has done so in the correct manner is yet to be seen.
How the US could help the Taliban or Saddam with shoving lots of money at them is beyond me either.The taliban did not want any help off anyone for western influences could corrupt their'ideal'society and Saddam blew his chances when HE invaded Kuwait.You dont mess with american oil supply man!

You get a better life for people by first of all offering them choice,neither regime offered that.America has offered that.You achieve a better life for yourself by being able to fight for your rights,the right of freedom of speech,religion and the right to protest.America is offering that.The Iraqi and afghani people are taking up that choice and it is the extreme elements of both societies that are trying to grab these choices away.

With the demise of many empires comes a period of chaos and many say this is what is happening with the US but first of all we have to, and are, dealing with the demise of the Soviet empire.Many problems in the region have been caused by the vaccuum left by the soviets,from the rise of the mujahudin,islamic power in central asia,the hegomany of the US in all world affairs,many problems can be linked to this.
What I am saying is just dont blame the US.LOOK at russia in the caucasus,China in its western provinces,the spread of islamic extremist in Sudan,indonesia and so on.

I have a few issues with Bush and the US but I am not niave enough to bite the hand that feeds me.Only wild animals and fools do that!  

12 Feb 2006 @ 19:54 by Al @ : to continue breifly
If you look at the fall of the soviets,it could be said that the world was a safer place when the status quo between america and russia was dominating the world.However that abhorrent and digusting power has fallen.Lets deal with the mess it left and and move onto this filth of muslim extremism that has risen its ugly head.After that who knows,the enviroment? the chinese? Aliens and so on and on and on and on....  

12 Feb 2006 @ 21:34 by vibrani : From The Telegraph
We were brought up to hate, and we do
By Nonie Darwish

The controversy regarding the Danish cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed completely misses the point. Of course, the cartoons are offensive to Muslims, but newspaper cartoons do not warrant the burning of buildings and the killing of innocent people. The cartoons did not cause the disease of hate that we are seeing in the Muslim world on our television screens at night - they are only a symptom of a far greater disease.

I was born and raised as a Muslim in Cairo, Egypt and in the Gaza Strip. In the 1950s, my father was sent by Egypt's President, Gamal Abdel Nasser, to head the Egyptian military intelligence in Gaza and the Sinai where he founded the Palestinian Fedayeen, or "armed resistance". They made cross-border attacks into Israel, killing 400 Israelis and wounding more than 900 others.

My father was killed as a result of the Fedayeen operations when I was eight years old. He was hailed by Nasser as a national hero and was considered a shaheed, or martyr. In his speech announcing the nationalisation of the Suez Canal, Nasser vowed that all of Egypt would take revenge for my father's death. My siblings and I were asked by Nasser: "Which one of you will avenge your father's death by killing Jews?" We looked at each other speechless, unable to answer.

In school in Gaza, I learned hate, vengeance and retaliation. Peace was never an option, as it was considered a sign of defeat and weakness. At school we sang songs with verses calling Jews "dogs" (in Arab culture, dogs are considered unclean).

Criticism and questioning were forbidden. When I did either of these, I was told: "Muslims cannot love the enemies of God, and those who do will get no mercy in hell." As a young woman, I visited a Christian friend in Cairo during Friday prayers, and we both heard the verbal attacks on Christians and Jews from the loudspeakers outside the mosque. They said: "May God destroy the infidels and the Jews, the enemies of God. We are not to befriend them or make treaties with them." We heard worshippers respond "Amen".

My friend looked scared; I was ashamed. That was when I first realised that something was very wrong in the way my religion was taught and practised. Sadly, the way I was raised was not unique. Hundreds of millions of other Muslims also have been raised with the same hatred of the West and Israel as a way to distract from the failings of their leaders. Things have not changed since I was a little girl in the 1950s.

Palestinian television extols terrorists, and textbooks still deny the existence of Israel. More than 300 Palestinians schools are named after shaheeds, including my father. Roads in both Egypt and Gaza still bear his name - as they do of other "martyrs". What sort of message does that send about the role of terrorists? That they are heroes. Leaders who signed peace treaties, such as President Anwar Sadat, have been assassinated. Today, the Islamo-fascist president of Iran uses nuclear dreams, Holocaust denials and threats to "wipe Israel off the map" as a way to maintain control of his divided country.

Indeed, with Denmark set to assume the rotating presidency of the UN Security Council, the flames of the cartoon controversy have been fanned by Iran and Syria. This is critical since the International Atomic Energy Agency is expected to refer Iran to the Security Council and demand sanctions. At the same time, Syria is under scrutiny for its actions in Lebanon. Both Iran and Syria cynically want to embarrass the Danes to achieve their dangerous goals.

But the rallies and riots come from a public ripe with rage. From my childhood in Gaza until today, blaming Israel and the West has been an industry in the Muslim world. Whenever peace seemed attainable, Palestinian leaders found groups who would do everything to sabotage it. They allowed their people to be used as the front line of Arab jihad. Dictators in countries surrounding the Palestinians were only too happy to exploit the Palestinians as a diversion from problems in their own backyards. The only voice outside of government control in these areas has been the mosques, and these places of worship have been filled with talk of jihad.

Is it any surprise that after decades of indoctrination in a culture of hate, that people actually do hate? Arab society has created a system of relying on fear of a common enemy. It's a system that has brought them much-needed unity, cohesion and compliance in a region ravaged by tribal feuds, instability, violence, and selfish corruption. So Arab leaders blame Jews and Christians rather than provide good schools, roads, hospitals, housing, jobs, or hope to their people.

For 30 years I lived inside this war zone of oppressive dictatorships and police states. Citizens competed to appease and glorify their dictators, but they looked the other way when Muslims tortured and terrorised other Muslims. I witnessed honour killings of girls, oppression of women, female genital mutilation, polygamy and its devastating effect on family relations. All of this is destroying the Muslim faith from within.

It's time for Arabs and Muslims to stand up for their families. We must stop allowing our leaders to use the West and Israel as an excuse to distract from their own failed leadership and their citizens' lack of freedoms. It's time to stop allowing Arab leaders to complain about cartoons while turning a blind eye to people who defame Islam by holding Korans in one hand while murdering innocent people with the other.

Muslims need jobs - not jihad. Apologies about cartoons will not solve the problems. What is needed is hope and not hate. Unless we recognise that the culture of hate is the true root of the riots surrounding this cartoon controversy, this violent overreaction will only be the start of a clash of civilis-ations that the world cannot bear.

• Nonie Darwish is a freelance writer and public speaker.  

13 Feb 2006 @ 00:05 by reha @ : Armenian issue
I had written some brief info about the claims of some of you that we ( Turks ) made a genoside against the Armenians. As I understand the meaning of the term genocide the claim is that we are beleieved to have killed the Armenians only and only because they were Christian and Armenian . I made some more survey about this issue and and summarize the outcomes for your info as follows ?
For more info See :

1- Armenians lived in Eastern Anatolia under many states before us ( Persians, Romans, Arabs, etc ). They themselves confirmed at the highest level by Armenian Patrick in Istanbul that they have gained their rights to live freely and practice their religion, tradition, language etc only after they were in the Turkish states , Seljuks (1071- 1250) and Ottomans(1299 - 1923 )

2- They participated to Ottoman state so much that in 1915 they had 12 parlamenters in the national assembly and 20000 officers in the miscellenous state offices including ministries and the army.

3- They had no problem with the state (and also the reverse is true ie state had no problems with them ). They were highly contributing our economy and living in quite wealty state and had no complaints untill the last quarter of 19th century.

4- After the empire has lost its power to a great extent and started to lose the battles one after the other , specifically after we lost the war against the Russians in 1877-78 we signed a treaty with them where the Russians encoureged the Armenians to fight against us. The English and Russians supported Armenian terror organizations ( just like what the Europeans do today for PKK ) to terrorize the district. As a result we lost ca 1000000 of our muslim citizens (mostly Turkish origin ) from the start of the battles against the Armenian militants , their massacres in our villages and especially by their attacks during the first world war.

5) Their militants as well the Armenian origin soldiers in our army joined the Russian forces and fought against us. Just as an example we lost 180000 soldiers in Sivas where the Russian army has never been !

6) All our attempts to stop the Armenians ( our citizens for almost 1000 years ) to war against us had been useless and as a last solution we had to relocate them to the other parts of the country .

7) It is true that some number of them have lost their lives since the conditions at that time was really very bad for travelling. We feel sorry about this but unfortunetly we were not able find another solution to secure this part of our country.

8) Some numbers : People mention that the number of Armenians who lost their lives are between 1 - 3 million acc/ to different sources . Here are some real numbers :

Population of Armenians in Turkey in 1914 as an average of 12 European a few Armenian sources and the Ottoman official population counting is 1,200,000 of which 170000 were living in the west (mainly Istanbul ) and they were not effected at all.

ca 800000 were transferred to other places detailed as :
- Mr Hatisov who became Armenian president afterwards said that they received 400 000 refugees in Soviet Armenia
- refugees arriving at other countries :Lebenon 50000 Jordan 10000 Egypt 40000 iraq 25000 France and USA 35000 greece 120000 and Bulgaria 40000 Syria 140000
- The difference in these numbers is ca 200000 which can be considered as dying in the battles against us and during the relocation in transit.

For your info  

13 Feb 2006 @ 01:16 by A Dane @ : to reha
here is another link for your info,  

13 Feb 2006 @ 02:52 by djurka @ : dhurkastan in trouble
dhurka dhurka dhurka mohammed jihad dhurka dhurkastan mohammed jihad  

13 Feb 2006 @ 04:04 by jackassfoo @ : HAHAHA LOOK - lmao aint it the truth!! HAHAHA THIS PICTURE IS HILARIOUSS  

13 Feb 2006 @ 04:29 by vibrani : lol
I know where that's from.....dhurka dhurka dhurka mohammad jihad. America, fuck yeah.  

13 Feb 2006 @ 07:15 by Tom Dennis @ : Hanna's comments
When reading Hanan’s comments I can see that just like all the Muslims Hanan is also a person who gets offended when the religion is mocked at. Perhaps he/she doesn’t know that in this world every religion gets attacked or mocked at once in a while by somebody or someone. There are books that criticize religions, there are books that attack Christianity too. But from that alone people don’t come to a conclusion that the Christianity is under attack or there’s an unseen force against them (this comments was by another Muslim whom I know). Unfortunately, so far Muslims (probably not all of them) are the only people who feel that way. I have seen Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, etc, etc, but they don’t have that problem.

When Abu-Graib prison incidents took place the president of the United States apologized to the people of Iraq. Would Sadam Hussain have done the same. Didn’t he kill his own relatives. And didn’t his troops rape women when they attacked Kuwait? (I am not justifying the incident anyway). I suppose Muslims are allowed to get killed only by another Muslim the same way many Kurds got killed by Saddam? Then people would not speak.

Shall we speak of how the people got tortured in Abu-Graib by US soldiers and how Saddam’s regime tortured people? Abu Graib incidents hit headlines in American and European papers and incidents were exposed by the westerners. But can you remember seeing headlines in papers when Saddam was in power and about his rapist son? And about the incidents that took place in Kuwait when Iraqi troops ransacked the city and raped women. Did US troops burn people alive in Iraq the way the Saddam did?

US wrong in one thing. That’s is people of Iraq, Iran and there are many similar countries and they have no value for freedom or democracy. They are people who always should be ruled with an iron fist. Then they will like you.  

13 Feb 2006 @ 08:16 by nashow @ : freedom of speech
England´s Prince Harry Apologies for Nazi´s Party Disguise
Queen Isabel II´s grandson is once again creating polemic in England. Harry had to apologize for having dressed up as Nazi in a costume party. The British daily The Sun has published the photos of the scandal. After appearing in the newspaper´s front page, prince Harry said he sorry if he had caused "some offence or shame to someone". Harry also declared that "the costume was badly choosen".  

13 Feb 2006 @ 10:43 by djurka @ : dhurkastan still in trouble
i was eight when the infidels came to my village if you are not careful i will put a jihad on you to dhurka dhurka  

13 Feb 2006 @ 11:39 by nashow @ : to Tom Dennis
>Tom Dennis wrote:"Did US troops burn people alive in Iraq the way the Saddam did?"

Back in 1974 Victor Marchetti, formerly an Executive Assistant to the Deputy Director of the CIA, wrote of the `New Order' then being planned at Langley headquarters. He explained in chilling terms why resignation was his only honourable choice:
" And there was a diabolical invention that might be called a mini-cannon" ... "There were a number of uses for the mini-cannon, one of which was demonstrated to us using an old army school bus. It was fastened to the gasoline tank in such a fashion that the incendiary projectile would rupture the tank and fling flaming gasoline the length of the bus interior, incinerating anyone inside. It was my lot to show the rest of the class how easily it could be done. It worked, my God, how it worked. It was, I guess, the moment of truth. What did a busload of burning people have to do with freedom? What right did I have, in the name of democracy and the CIA, to decide that random victims should die? The intellectual game was over. I had to leave. "
Victor Marchetti resigned before the CIA decided to target the Middle East in its attempt to shift primary oil production from the Persian Gulf to the Falkland Islands. However, evidence the CIA maintained its vicious determination to murder random innocent victims by the thousand was soon to be provided in the Middle East with sickening massacres in both Iraq and Kuwait...

by Joe Vialls be continued  

13 Feb 2006 @ 13:53 by vibrani : All fundamentalists
seem to think their religion is under attack, even Christians in America. Religion seems to breed paranoia and a superiority complex more than trust and love.  

13 Feb 2006 @ 14:26 by ArabicShit @ : Muslim Girls
Muslims go back to your countries, why do you leave your original countries that Allah gave you??? In there you´ll be able to follow your nice religion without bothering westerners. Westerners should deport all muslims, once there Nuke the modafukaz, get the oil, clean the area and build a new Disneyland Theme Park. Muslims are irritating a little too much latetly, I think it is time to act seriously and show who´s got the mouth and stones and who got the nukes, maybe time has arrived for muslims to go take some intersting religious trip next to Allah. Maybe it is time to make them understand that while they can make a country´s flag desappear while burned we could just make their country desappear aswell. I think time has arrived for the FINAL CRUSADE, time for muslims is gone, there is no more time, just time to push that red button and make them desappear for good.  

13 Feb 2006 @ 17:10 by Erik - a Dane @ : A Shit-Hole Full of Fools!! - again
A Shit-Hole Full of Fools,

Sometimes I wonder what have those thousands of years and hundreds of civilizations that passed through our region done to us? What have they offered? An accumulation of hatred, problems, disappointments, self-doubt, and wars.
Ever since we were small kids we were taught to brag about our past, the historic richness of our homeland. It was always implied to us that it is something to be proud of, but at times I start thinking that it is merely an act of stupidity.
For people like us, so rooted in their past and surrounded by all this history of conflicts, isn't it harder to start from scratch? At some point in time, that is what a civilization needs, starting from scratch. Putting all the past behind its back and moving on. Ataturk forced the Ottoman's to do so, the French revolution was successful in doing so, the Maoists of China attemted for a decade, and succeeded in seperating the past from their nation's future. The United States of America was built in a whole new continent... regardless of how successful those attempts and movements were, regardless of the names they hold, they made a difference.
We have been living in the shit-hole, this middle-east for centuries, going in circles, stuck to our past, not just stuck, but longing to go back to the old days, fighting our ancestors' battles and losing their wars over and over again.
I am desperate, I feel as if everyone I know is a fool who just does not grasp what we are going through, just endorsing hatred as an ideology and giving it names to avoid the guilt.
If only my people would educate themselves a bit, and try to understand the world, before asking the world to understand their complexes and insecurity.
What is this post all about?
Disappointment and despair.

A Muslim  

13 Feb 2006 @ 19:54 by Cyrus @ : Religion: The Greatest Lie
All mankind seeks is money and power. All religions that have a God and a self declared representative are actually tools to acheive that end. Those that are in the mists of the representative will seek to dupe and brainwash the maximum amount of people in order to reign over them with one infallible argument:" If you do not obey me, God will punish you and send you to hell". Religious people make this ridiculous assumption, that partly explains why the want to shove their faith down everyone's throats:" The more people believe in my nonsense, the more true it will be". It is the belief that the majority must be right. However, I truly believe that the majority (80-90% of human beings believe in one of the three principal religions) is wrong. This reminds me of "Who wants to be a millionaire?". In one episode, the contestant (not a very bright fellow) was asked for the capital of Australia. He didn't know the answer, and thereafter asked the audience to help him. Nearly 70% of the audience answered Sydney (the right answer is Canberra). Since he followed the mass, he lost!! One can only wonder if the same is not true of the major world religions. To tell you the truth, its all smokes and mirrors: " Let the mass see what pleases them and you can control them beyond your wildest dreams".  

13 Feb 2006 @ 21:09 by Cyrus @ : To Mishka
You seem to interpret my postings in an odd fashion. I do not like Religion: any religion whichever it is. Why? Because people use religion and God to do whatever they wish, even the unjustifiable. Just look at those fools that killed thousands of innocent people during 9/11 and did it "In the Name of God". If I see another FUCK use the name of God (if God exists) again for anything, I will blow his head off. Its like in Iran, when those idiotic TV journalists always say "In the name of God, the most merciful, blah,blah,blah" before a soccer match. That is just sick. If it were me, I would shove the Koran, Bible and all those ridiculous fairy tale texts where the sun don't shine.Amen.  

13 Feb 2006 @ 21:19 by A Dane @ : My last comment here.
I hope at least some of you (Muslims) will understand that it was neither Denmark nor the Danish people who printed these cartoons, but a newspaper, and they did give you an apology. So let’s put an end to all this and look forward.

Have a nice day - all of you!  

13 Feb 2006 @ 23:11 by mishka @ : to cyrus
i do believe in god! but if you arent a muslim then i dont have anything against you.  

13 Feb 2006 @ 23:41 by Cyrus @ : To Mishka
I believe that there is an entity (one may call it God) that was the catalyst for creating order out of chaos. That order is what we have today; the universe and the earth following strict mathematical/physical equations. And for me, that is the beauty of God. One of the most amazing numbers in the universe is the golden number phi, which repeats itself in nature and the milky way and most likely throughout the universe. This is as far as I can go, as far as God is concerned. Any other explanation of God and whatnot needs a logical explanation based on reason (and science). Any other type of explanation (like belief that Jesus flew to the sky or Mohammed flew to the sky on a horse) is just speculation and isn't worth a damn in my opinion.  

14 Feb 2006 @ 00:09 by bushman : Boiling down.
As it is with all biomatter, it is with humans. Each living thing has its gifts, and missgivings, per it's soul to flesh. A folly of mankind, to think he's on top, yet what man truly suffers from, is lack of a natural preditor, what eats man? So mankind finds his worst enemy is himself. Yet he still dosn't know that the tree or the insect with it's gifts, is just as intellegent as himself. Time is a gift to mankind, but in reality, does not exist. All souls and universe were created at the same instant with thier gifts as they are, still to this day we are given flesh that best gives our souls and its gifts the best posable container, to utilize its gifts. Biomatter of the planet must remain above 1/3 of it's total biomatter or it will not survive, and in diversity of spicies for a soul to cling to. It's called "diminishing returns". Mankind must understand and see this, for he is the God of this planet. Its easyer to take life than creat it, because humans do have the power to destroy all flesh on this planet. Shall we end up with a world where all souls are contained in microbs? When mankind finds himself the size of a mouse, and we kick ourselves for domesticating house cats, then will it all be fair? We can see diminishing returns, as the planet cant suport the larger animals, where are humans on this scale of size? When will humans be the giants again? Mankind, the top beast on the planet, able to consume the planet at an astronomical rate, even things they dont use to feed thier own flesh, they consume from the planet, living or inert. The flesh is the flesh. When a tree knows its going to die, it makes many flowers and seeds. Nature is the hand of God, you see the world making lots of flowers and seeds, you know its about to die. What I'm saying is spare the flesh in all its forms, because we might be needing it more than we know. Although more souls are waiting in heaven there will be no flesh for them to realize life, before the universe grows cold, and the suns burn out, forever cold and dark.  

14 Feb 2006 @ 01:25 by mishka @ : mishka to cyrus
the bible must be true bec prophecies of israel are coming true. we spoke about it in church last sunday. the jews been scarted in many nations and now they back in their land and god said that many nations will come against them and thats so true. christian prophcies are linked to the jewish must read the bible cyrus  

14 Feb 2006 @ 02:38 by Cyrus @ : To Mishka: Hogwash
I am sorry but the Bible is just as wrong as the Koran. You can believe whatever you want, but the fact is that the Bible and Christianity came to light due to Emperor Contantine I of Byantium. This king apparently saw the cross in the sky after a battle in which he killed many many people. Obviously, he used this "sign" (at this point its like saying that Khomeini's face is on the moon, which many idiots contend is true)to spread Christianity, which incidentally was a cult like many others back in the day. The Pope dictated exactly what should be in the bible and used many sections to advance his own political agenda; that is to control Europe and South America through princes and kings who would kneel before him. Let me tell you some important facts:

1. Don't EVER believe in what some book tells you; especially a book about prophecies. Prophecies can be translated a thousand different ways and what you are assuming in the bible probably has already occurred a dozen times. For example, when the Babylonians controlled the Middle East, they attacked and enslaved the Jews. So did the Eqyptians. So there have been many peoples in the history of mankind that I have held grudges against the Jews.

2. The only good part about the bible is the old testament's historical aspects, since it is essential just a history book and any genuine philosophical aspects to Jesus' teachings. By that I mean the forgiveness, compassion parts. Furthermore, the dead sea scrolls seem more exact than the bible as far as the behavior Christ had at the time. Obviously, it is curious that you go to church every Sunday and claim to love Jesus, but when it comes to loving and forgiving others (such as Muslims), you seem so far away from the message of your "savior" (I am deducting this based on your postings).

3. All this Jesus = Son of God crap is nonsense. Jesus was an enlightened, wise teacher who attempted to educate the people into having appropriate social behaviors. Since he was a rabbi, he was given a title. That title was mistakengly translated into Son of God when the Greeks rewrote the bible. Furthermore, Jesus was probably a revolutionary who wanted to see a society where people would befriend and help each other. Because he wanted such a thing, he was killed, just like all peace-loving leaders are in the end.

4. Instead of talking about prophecies and angels and demons and all that gibberish, you should concentrate your efforts into understanding the philosophical aspects of your bible. I think that is the only worthwhile part of the bible. Now, if you're interested in prophecies, go read Nostradamus instead of wasting your Sunday in church.


14 Feb 2006 @ 03:12 by vibrani : WHAT?!
hahahaahah You aren't specifying WHICH bible - the Babylonian Talmud (which was the first one) or the Old Testament or New Testament. From this cross nonsense I think you are referring to the New Testament. Look up the Council of Nicea {}

Jesus was a human being, and was Jewish. He did not invent Christianity. People did - 30 years plus after his supposed death. "Son of God" is the common term in Hebrew/Judaism, for any child.

All bibles were written by people - maybe some channeled information but it was still at a primitive time and obviously limited, and there were agendas for control, to help make sense if live at the time (nutrition, cleanliness, morals, values, etc.). The bible is best looked at as a metaphor, and remember that a lot of what was originally said and done was changed in the bibles.

But, you can look at the Old Testament and read it as a book of what happened and what will happen, as it seems to be consistent with predictions because, according to the Old Testament, these things already happened, so you're reading a book about the future as well as the past.

As for predictions, Nostradamus is a joke. There isn't one person who understands what he wrote, nor any way to prove any of his so-called predictions. What you read today are modern day assumed interpretations, not accurate ones, anyway. He was not a prophet and he got his own messages mixed up. He didn't understand what he was seeing. Giving him credibility is like saying every image that appears on a wall is Jesus or the Virgin Mary with a message.  

14 Feb 2006 @ 11:04 by Tom Dennis @ : To Nashow
Yeah yeah!! I have read many of those stories. And actually Hollywood produces such movies too. There's a tv series which I like that's x-files. Put all those stories to a side--weather true or false. So far we have not heard of any random or systamtic killing of any people by US forces. Why don't you take a look at those beheading scenes and see how barbaric those people are.
A man with a bird brain would think whether Saddam's intelligence chief would have such freedom to express his views, the way the CIA chief did, had he resigned from his post.  

14 Feb 2006 @ 12:36 by koorosh @ : salam

14 Feb 2006 @ 13:39 by islam is for the morons @ : extreme shit
All i could tell is that if people of other religion reacted in the same way to the comments and pictures published by muslims, koran would have become a museum antique long long ago.
It is not the oil that the muslims thrive on.
It is the callous and comforting attitude of the other religions that islam thrives on.  

14 Feb 2006 @ 14:04 by C.I.Oommen @ : a malyalam poem against mary the mother
this is a tit for tat against the CIA of George Bush who sidelined the Islam and instrumental for publishing a cartoon figuring the prophet Mohammed. The Malayalam version of the poem is turning eye of storm in Kerala, India.Mary I love you
I did refuse to pray,
Since, I have had no mediator,
Between my dying spirit
And the almighty.
Mary said unto me:
“Shall I have your mediator?”
I did refuse to her Majesty’s offer
And kissed the bareness of her soul:
Upon the pastures of her naked body.
She, is the wild of orgasm
Cried aloud:
“My desires are dead now,
As Jesus never happened to be
Your son, me Lord.”
Thence , Jesus was wandering
In the wilderness;
Cursing the fig tree
And casting the evil
Upon the pigs
To drown in the fathomless sea,
On that he walked stepping
In the shoes of miracle.
Joseph, the bewildered and confused
Was making a cross in the trunks of a tree
Called the revenge for Him, the Holy Spirit.

The other sons of Mary were out
In planting mines in the pathways
Of the Palestinians.

O’ Mary, the blessed and the chosen one,
I love you.

14 Feb 2006 @ 14:12 by johnyboy @ : your poem
i don't like your poem. I think i'm going to protest and burn an indian flag. maybe a flag with a moon and star on it. by the way, jesus is the lord of lords, kings of kings, and the SON of god.....  

14 Feb 2006 @ 15:30 by Buddhist @ : ISLAM= peace ???
until moderate muslims speak up and (show=actions) how Islam is about peace and harmony i refuse to believe it is a religion of peace. Plus at work i have spoken to many of my muslim colleague i found out the the great prophet married Aiysha his beloved wife when she was 6 yrs old ( i got this from the koran and muslims at work ??itsnt it Pedofiliac can someone explain this to me , because i coul dnot understand Y?? others( muslim ) have said that god commanded Mo to do so and its ok , they dont see anything wrong with it plus one disturbing thing i have heard is that the word pedophilia is invented by the west and it does not exist.(in the minds of muslims)( shocking to hear) , but as a human being i dont understand y ?  

14 Feb 2006 @ 16:33 by Guru @ : Muslims can Die
who cares about muslims they are flea's just an annoyance they can never do any real harm... there's no new leader idiots dont ever kill people in the name of god... allah is a pussy - Im no religion  

14 Feb 2006 @ 18:57 by Cyrus @ : To Vibrani
Several responses to your posting:

1. The Nostradamus reference is sarcasm on my part. The point I was making by mentioning it, is that most of the new testament is like Nostradamus' predictions: they are both open to the wildest interpretations. Therefore, reading Nostradamus or the most of the New Testament is for me the same. And since I oppose religion, I would suggest reading Nostradamus; at least you get the same nonsense without all the God-gibberish.

2.My references to the bible were mostly new testament, except when I specifically mentioned the old testament (I know that they are one and the same book most of the time). And of course, I am referring to the most common Old Testament, though I was unaware that there were two.

3. I never said Jesus invented Christianity. Quite the contrary; I believe he was just an enlightened human being. However, some also speculate that during his younger years he was educated by the Persians to create trouble for the Romans. I don't know how true this is. Christianity wasn't really invented by a specific person, but rather by many people. However, Constantine I was the first to elevate its status from a forgotten cult to a "world" religion. Of course the COuncil of Nicea not only made Jesus divine, but also modified the original biblical texts heavily. This explain the many contradictions between the dead sea scrolls and the new testament.

4. Finally, predictions are exactly what they say: Predictions. They are purely speculative and should not be taken seriously or worse literally. However, I do know people who can predict the future in a rather spectacular way, though much of it is based on the power of suggestion; they throw generalities that you interpret automatically in your own way. In this sense, the predictions always occur, since you want them to ( at least the nice ones).


14 Feb 2006 @ 19:00 by Cyrus @ : To Johnyboy
And I am GOd himself, so bow your head and kneel before me or I'll punish you.  

14 Feb 2006 @ 19:27 by vibrani : Thanks Cyrus
understood! :-)  

14 Feb 2006 @ 20:43 by mishka @ : to cyrus
no matter how you look at it, its pretty amaizing that the jews came back to their land like prophicied so many times and so long ago. where else have you seen it with another nation befor!? it means its really the promised land! the prove of god its his prophecies!  

14 Feb 2006 @ 22:24 by johnnyboy @ : cyrus
hello Godwannabe punish me and i'll punish you back. so get on your knees and worship the real G0d: Jesus  

15 Feb 2006 @ 02:54 by Cyrus @ : to Johnnyboy
Jesus a God?? Really?? Where's your proof????, because as far as I know, Jesus never called himself a God. It was at the Council of Nicea that the Pope and his followers decided that Jesus was divine (and they did that so that all the princes and kings would bow before the Pope, who considered himself the true representative of Jesus on Earth. Thereafter, the Pope was truly ruler of Europe for a very long time). Before that, Jesus was considered a human being, most likely a wise human being, but nothing more than that. You all insult Muslims and Mohammed and yet you expect others to hail your "savior" as a God. That is really ironic. For me you are all ONE AND THE SAME: Muslim, Jew, Christian: you are all as brainwashed and out of snyc with the real word of God = LOVE. All you idiots care about is whether Jesus (or Mohammed) sits next to God or over him, or behind him. And yet when your Jesus said to love all and to forgive as a central tenet of his doctrine, you all turn a blind eye to this and really spew hatred towards others. All that counts for you is that he is powerful and mighty (which is utterly wrong), since you enjoy prophecies and angels and whatnot so much. Here is an interesting discussion between a writer and God:

The writer dreamt of God one night. To God he asks,"How come you sent so many prophets to the world and each one of them has a different message? It seems to me that you must have been confused when you sent them down. God wittingly answers," I do not what you are talking about. I never sent anyone to represent me. These people just pop up out of nowhere and claim to be speaking in my name. Then they create so much trouble, that I am forced to clean things up. And as soon as everything is back the way it should be, another one pops up!!!"

Here is another one: The same writer wakes up the next morning and goes to see his friends. After recounting his dream, each one of his friends makes a suggestion:

- The architect friend:" We should build a temple and put images of your encounter with God on all the walls; that way people will come and worship you and donate money to us"

- The novelist friend:" We should write a book in your name in which we shall write about your divine encounter with God"

- The Magician friend:" We must absolutely create an illusion, like you walking on water, so that everyone will know of your divine nature. Afterall, you spoke to God!"

And thereafter haveth the birth of a new religion.


15 Feb 2006 @ 03:19 by Cyrus @ : To Mishka: Jesus is coming; look busy!!
First of all an arid, hot country is not really my idea of a promised land, unless God has a real sick sense of humor. I do not know where you got the idea that the bible prophecizes that the Jews would one day come back to their homeland, since the ethnic Jews (Sefevid or Asian Jews) have been coming and going (through slavery)a gazillion times. Actually, the Jews had established a homeland in Israel after Moses and had kings, until the Babylonians took over and sent them into slavery once again. Then the Persians invaded Babylonia and freed them. They then returned to Isreal yet again. The old testament mentions historical events that had occurred in the past. The fact that the Jews returned to Palestine in the 20th century contains many ambiguities. First off, the real ethinc Jews are the Sefevid or Asian Jews; the Ashkenaze or European Jews originate from Russia, where they CONVERTED to Judaism. So saying that European Jews "returned" to Palestine is a fallacy unto itself. As far as the Sefevid are concerned, they were never really that far away from Palestine to begin with; the majority were inhabitants and citizens of one or another country in Asia, some of them living in Palestine. Isreal's existence today is a very ambiguous one as well. If it is a valid argument for one people to displace another (the Palestinians) in order to retrieve their homeland, then it should equally be valid for the Persians to retrieve the Achemenian Empire, which stretched from Egypt to India to Greece or the poor Mongolians to retrieve half of the globe. The problem is that as much as one can understand that a group of people (for me only the Sefevid have such a right, since they are the true ethnic Jews) should have a right to return to their homeland, this should not happen at the cost of one people being displaced or losing their homes and livelihoods to make way for settlers. One only wishes that the Jews would share the land with the Palestinians. However, on both sides extremist factions are creating a gap between the moderates and preventing everyday Jews and Palestinians from coexisting together in one state. The reality of it is that, that is the only realistic way to solve the problem. Obviously, since there is mistrust on both sides, we are very far away from peace. Such a shame. I just hope that their silly conflict is not going to engulf the world in another world conflict. I certainly don't want to die because the Palestinians and Jews can't get along.


15 Feb 2006 @ 03:40 by Cyrus @ : To Dr Shred
No offense taken: I'm not an "arab". However, since your example uses countries or continents to define people ethnically, one can only call "arab" someone from Saudia ARABia or the ARABian peninsula (Omar, Qatar). I guess some things have the name "arab" in them for a reason.

The easiest way to get an ethnic makeup of the region, would be to look at a linguistic map of the region, though again the term "arab" is used incorrectly. This site makes that mistake, but gets other countries in the region fairly right:  

15 Feb 2006 @ 03:51 by vibrani : Hard to get along with a group
when they keep reminding you that you are their enemy.  

15 Feb 2006 @ 04:06 by Cyrus @ : Their Enemy??
Actually I am probably the enemy of 90% of this world, since those 90% are religious fools. I only befriend people of peace, who truly believe that all that counts when it comes to God is compassion and love. For all those religious nutbags, beware, for if there is a God, he'll probably beat the crap out of you for using his name everytime for every nonsense you spew forward. I especially hope all those "In the name of God" idiots get what's coming to them.  

15 Feb 2006 @ 07:11 by johnnyboy @ : cyrus
thank you for calling me an idiot and making fun of MY religion. I can truly see that you are a person of compassion and love as you like to write in your long diatribes. I have, believe it or not since I'm an idiot and all as you say, actually done historical research on and questioned whether or not Jesus was truly the Godman. As to whether or not referred to himself as God, I do not know. But he did refer to himself as the Son of God, that's in the Bible.
Exact placing in the Bible I would have to do research on. But since you are so dead set against religion of any kind, I don't think I could convince you one way or another. As to God being all about compassion and love, well this is certainly true, but God is also about justice. And sometimes the dispensing of justice is an unpleasant thing. I indeed wish that we lived in a world of compassion and love and peace, but you can only attain peace in this world through strength of arms (as a last resort). This world after all is not heaven. And since you seem all hell bent on preaching to all of us on this blog about the fallacy of religion, let me go on to say that I am heaven bent on preaching to all on this blog about my faith in Christ, since it only through him that I am saved. You seem to have some historical knowledge and for this I commend you. I obviously am not dealing with an idiot as you so grandly proclaimed to me that I am. Hopefully the simple idiot writing this simple words has taught you somehting about mutual respect, definitely an aspect of "compassion and love". This idiot salutes you. And brother, compared to the love and compassion of my God-Jesus Christ, we're all idiots.  

15 Feb 2006 @ 08:27 by vibrani : Saved from what?
If you put all your faith in Jesus, you're missing his message altogether. He never said for anyone to worship him, but BE THE WAY YOURSELF. Only YOU can save yourself from some imagined thing. It's all an illusion.  

15 Feb 2006 @ 08:29 by vibrani : Take a tally
Muslim outrage huh. OK ... let's do a little historical review. Just SOME lowlights:

* Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslim officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia. A Christian school. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt. No Muslim outrage
* A Muslim attacks a missionary children's school in India. Kills six. No Muslim outrage
* Muslims in Afghanistan destroy the two tallest Buddha statues in the world which were carved into a cliff 1700 years ago. No Muslim outrage
* Muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia. Muslims shoot children in the back. No Muslim outrage.
* Let's go way back. Muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses. Over 700 are injured. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims cut off the head of a Jewish American journalist hostage in Iraq live on TV. No Muslim Outrage.
* Muslim newspapers in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran and Palestine daily publish vile anti-Semitic cartoons. No Muslim outrage
* Muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge. No Muslim outrage.
* Newspapers in Denmark and Norway publish cartoons depicting Mohammed. Muslims are outraged.

Dead children. Dead tourists. Dead teachers. Dead doctors and nurses. Death, destruction and mayhem around the world at the hands of Muslims .. no Muslim outrage ... but publish a cartoon depicting Mohammed with a bomb in his turban and all hell breaks loose. Oh, and yeah, it's all the Jews and Americans' fault. Is it severe depression? Extremely low self-esteem, or are they just psychos (too much in-breeding or something)?!  

15 Feb 2006 @ 10:16 by mishka @ : to cyrus
doesnt seem to me that you understand much of the bible. we shall just wait and see. we all know which religion is the bad and which is the good(it never been clearer). and thanks to your idiotic evil president of iran, THE COUNT DOWN BEGIN!  

15 Feb 2006 @ 11:01 by johnnyboy @ : vibrani
vibrani you seem to be well educated and articulate. my hat's off to you for that. you say that i should save myself. well, nobody can save their soul from destruction. only the creator can decide whether to save or damn. he created us after all. i can't uncreate myself (damn myself) because i and you and everybody else in this universe is a creation, we don't have that power. only god through his grace can save our souls. it's an illusion. look at the very sins that you have written about in your posts. all that war and savagery has been going on forever. do you really think anybody can save themselves? we are humans, not god. we are imperfect, god is perfect. if we attempt to save ourselves, we might be able to do so temporarily in this world, but not in the long run (eternity). what i'm talking about here is a spiritual battle. you see, when you accept christ, you become one set apart. you are in this world but not of it. do you understand? Jesus ;ayed the price for our sin on the Cross at Calvary. when you accept that he is god, you accept eternity with him-your soul becomes immortal when you die to yourself and when you stop attempting to save yourself. it's all in the bible. the bible isn't about the exodus, the fall, the creation, etc. it is ultimately about Yeshua, the Messiah, itis his story. all the other things in the bible are just leading up to Him. you see, other people like cyrus and yourself and muslims or whoever can debate with me endlessly about how i am wrong to believe in Christ. but in my heart i know that he is God, come down in the form of man, to be with us, his children, to show the world that there is hope and salvation through him. i know that he died on the cross for me and everyone, and was taken up in glory to be with the father. he paid the price. it was the only way than all men everywhere could be washed of their sins-through his blood. i could go on. you see, i am just as ready as any muslim anywhere in the world, or any jew, to give my life for my god. it's the least i can do. he, after all, paid the price for me. jesus loves you vibrani. god bless.............................  

15 Feb 2006 @ 11:15 by Who, Me? @ : Hail all.
I am an atheist, so I could give some middle ground on this even though I personally find religion disgusting and quite useless. I say this on three points:

1. Religion started way back, so you don't have much records except for what you decree them to write. (they will do that because of your "Oh so great and mighty vestige")

2. All religions didn't come at the same time, so It gives everyone a chance at plaigarising another religion's work or claim that their's came first.

3. Many parts of religion are highly contradictory and bizzare, take Mohammed's consummation of marriage, Jesus was supposed to be human until we made him a "son of god" (liberally laces entire comment with sarcasm)

Then again, I am merely me, one who can't understand the "greatness" of religion. Those who have seen the light, come and try me, I can blunt your nose anytime.  

15 Feb 2006 @ 11:17 by Who, Me? @ : Sorry for the typos
It's "Oh so great and mighty visage"  

15 Feb 2006 @ 11:28 by vibrani : Johnnyboy
It is all an illusion - the thing is, not enough people understand that. They take life here on Earth much too seriously with much confusion. We are multidimensional and eternal beings. Yes, if the Muslims understood that all life is divine and that what they do to others they are doing to themselves (and that's why they never seem to evolve), would they keep on doing it? Would anyone - unless they were a masochist and sadist? It's religion that has warped the minds of people and removed them so far from their true selves, Johnnyboy. Jesus is not my god, nor is Buddha, nor is Mohammad. The Source is all there is - the ONE and only, the creator of all life, and it isn't a man or woman, it is energy/synchronicity/love. I'm amazed at Christians who still don't understand their own religion. Some say Jesus is the son of God (a misunderstanding of Hebrew and Aramaic - and few Christians read Hebrew or Aramaic); and some say he is God. Well, what the heck is he? He was a man who was more spiritually aware than most people of his time. Sorry, but no one died for my sins. The only "sin" is forgetfulness of one's divinity - and that is played in a myriad of ways, just look at our planet. Lack of consciousness, living in total separation from God. Giving your power away to Jesus is not what Jesus was about at all. And nothing in the Old Testament leads up to Jesus. He's not even mentioned it. The Messiah is a level of consciousness - the MASS consciousness - when the critical mass will be reached; people will be aware of who they are and what they're doing and CHOOSE to evolve - to be more light and love. It's not one man, and it's not Jesus. You are your own salvation, YOU judge yourself, YOU condemn yourself to Hell through your perceptions and self-judgements, guilt and shame - or choose heaven. God has no need for people to sacrifice themselves for It, to die for It, to wage war for It. God is not a needy, dysfunctional, sadistic being with an overactive ego. God gave us all that we are - we are created in ITS image, we all contain God within us, in our DNA, in our soul, we co-create with God. This I know is truth. You are free to continue with your illusions. I feel that you mean no harm to anyone and you mean well. I only wish awareness for all.{}. {}. Dude, you are here to learn, to love, to enjoy life, to celebrate it, create with it. That's it.  

15 Feb 2006 @ 14:44 by Kjell @ : caption translation
Would someone please translate the caption PROFET. MED KUK OG KNALD I LÅGET,
SOM HOLDER KVINNER UNDER ÅGET. Please send to my e mail address  

15 Feb 2006 @ 15:24 by Pancho 'the pro-Israel mexican' @ : my candidate of choice!!!

15 Feb 2006 @ 18:30 by pete @ : to Kjell - caption translation
"Profet! Med kuk og knald i låget som holder kvinder under åget!", which could be translated as: "Prophet, you crazy bloke! Keeping women under yoke!" from Wikipedia  

15 Feb 2006 @ 18:42 by pete @ : to Kjell - caption translation
Here is the link to Wikipedia > Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy:  

15 Feb 2006 @ 19:11 by Bashaw @ : My message
Muslim (Moslem), Radical Muslim, Arab, Shiit, Sunni, Nazi, Racist, Jew, Zionest, Euopean Oppressors, The Great Satan (America), etc., it is so damn easy to group people. Well some say, this group of people - place any class of people here - deserves death for injustices real or imagined and I am going to be the one to bring it to them; this seems to be the main opinion expressed here. Or, someone wishes to enlighten the readers of this blog to the understanding that their percieved enemy is in fact their true friend and sorely misunderstood; and in fact their real enemy is someone else. When are people going to learn that the world as a whole is messed up. No class of people are perfect and therefore no nationality, belief, or religion, is perfect, for they all are practiced by people - as human beings we are essentually flawed. America is not to blame for the worlds problems, the Islamic world is not to blame for the worlds problems, nor is the West, or any other group of people wholly responsible for the worlds problems. We are all responsible for the problems shared by mankind. Now, I am not excussing the West for their atrocities, or America for theirs, nor will I say that the Islamic world is free from blame when it comes to their share of this worlds problems, but we need to move on from this, start honest diolage amongst each other, and begine to address these grevinces, to start to deal fairly with each other out of respect. To say that you hate and are willing to kill for it is so easy it is stupid and only helps to perpetuate the problem. The Islamic world is realing after years of abuse from forigners, their on governments, people who claim to be thier freedom fighters, and so they are very siceptible to the message of hate that has begain to fill their streets, news papers, news channels, homes, and places of religion. Many have grown blind to the truth that we share so much in common and that we do not need to hate each other, there is a better way. This is history repeting itself, with a different people and a different time, but very basicallyu the same thing that humanity has witnessed over and over again. The worlds time, the Wests time, to step-in and show a different face to extend a hand is growing short. And it seems that so many times we are showing the wrong face and extendeing the wrong hand, because we do not know what to show the Islamic world nor what to offer them, we do not listen to them nor do we understand them. Why? Because we have also become blinded with hate - victims of the same propaganda. Were are our leaders? Our leaders, power hungery and self modivated as ever, are feeding us this hate in an attempt to wrestle all our senses from us. It is time to get beyond the hate, to get beyond the finger pointing, to get beyound history, for non of this makes any of us any better than the other, it is time to see the truth of humanity, that we are human beings with basically the same wants and needs. It is time to believe in these things so that out of these beliefs, we may raise up leaders that have been fostered and have grown with these beliefs as their own, so that our children may see a brighter future.  

15 Feb 2006 @ 19:34 by Cyrus @ : To Vibrani & Johnnyboy
Obviously Johnnyboy, the "idiot" terminology should be taken lightly. I did not literally mean that you are an idiot. Idiot in my context essentially means "brainwashed". I am not making "fun" of any religion, but voicing my opposition and despair that religion has such a strong grip on people, while love, compassion and other "divine" values are trampeled upon. In this case religion is more frightening than funny. My posts reflect my frustration when I see people that blindly (call it faith) follow a book, that anyone could have written, instead of questioning it or themselves. It is essential, and I believe it is one goal in life, to constantly question ourselves and what we believe in. Only this way, can we better ourselves. Sticking to our beliefs stubbornly, when some things are questionable, is like clinging to the notion that the Earth is flat, when everyone is trying to show us that it is not. I have a work colleague here who is a great friend. He is an Orthodox (Christian)from Ethiopia. I asked him once why he fasted during Easter. He told me that he wanted to emulate the last days of Jesus on earth, which I respect. Then he told me that he doesn't eat any meat. I then brought up the fact that Jesus' followers were mostly fishermen and that therefore, he most likely had fish during his last days. He responded only that now it has become the rule not to eat fish. Just like that, he follows a rule that comes from nowhere and that probably has nothing to do with Jesus in the first place. Same goes when this same colleague, who is truly a great human being, does not donate anything for the Hurricane Katrina victims, but prefers giving his money to redecorate the church. All this really puzzles me, since I thought Jesus' message was to love and give to the needy; he never asked people to give money to his faith or build a church in his name.

All this is to say that my thoughts are more in line with what Vibrani wrote to you lately and "Who me?"'s post "hail all". I am most likely too blunt and did not mean to offend you personally.

Here is another interesting religious experience. A classmate from college back in Switzerland hailed from Greece. When he was young, he partied alot and was pretty wild. When he turned 18, he went to a monastery in Greece and was totally brainwashed to the point where he now believes the bar code is the signature of the devil. He is very persuasive I must say, but ridiculous nontheless: his premise is that the bar code contains three identical double lines at the start,center and end of the code. Apparently these lines that are the longest in the sequence represent the number "6" bringing him to conclude that the code actually shows 666, the sign of the devil. So, each time he opens a can of Coke, he prays and moves his can to draw the cross, before sipping away. Now that is weird and tragic.

To Vibrani: very inspiring and interesting post you sent to Johnnyboy. Thank you.

P.S.: Johnnyboy, I would also like to inform you that biologist have recently discovered a gene that some people have. This gene apparently makes people believers, since it amplifies the sentiment of fear and insecurity. And this might answer my puzzlement as to why people believe in such amazing things. I can understand that people want to believe in an afterlife and whatnot, since non-existence after death is scary enough, but pushing that further to the point where one blindly follows a book without questioning it is a bit too much.  

15 Feb 2006 @ 19:54 by Cyrus @ : To Bashaw
Very true. Good posting. However, I still think that religion in general has become a vector used all too often by all sides to creat hate and justify heinous acts of injustice towards others (the whole "You are killing the infidel in the name of God" shebang).  

15 Feb 2006 @ 20:23 by johnnyboy @ : ok ok i understand you don't believe
If you did not mean to offend why did you compare me to an "idiot"? Evidently, your arrogant and self righteous unbelief is just as arrogant, idiotic, and self righteous as my belief. People like you amaze me. You believe in only what you see in front of you and you want to point out to everybody else what superstitious and "brainwashed" idiots you think we are. Cyrus, man is NOT the measure of all things. I believe that was tried during the Enlightenment and we are still fighting wars afterwards. As to the "belief" gene, so what? And what does that prove? Does that still prove that because we have a gene in this physical body that there is no afterlife? No it doesn't. Maybe they'll find a gene that controls unbelief. Maybe it will be in the minority of people. Making you abnormal. As to me having fear and insecurity, as you say that this gene amplifies, all I can say is that I'm one of the most secure people you will ever meet about certain things, insecure about a few things. Have you ever been haunted by spirits? Has another person in the same room that was haunted ever seen and experienced the same exact things as you were experiencing. I have. No bullshit. Don't be too quick to dismiss me as an insecure, bible believing, fear ridden quack. Just as a person once said, don't remember his name, "The universe is not only stranger than we can think, the universe is stranger than we can imagine". Just because something is not in front of you, does not mean that it can't exist. What a poor world view must have, only believing in things that your senses tell you is there. My belief is just as valid as your unbelief. My Bible just as valid as your science or whatever. Get off your podium once in awhile, you might just see things us idiots see from down here. Jesus bless you.......................  

15 Feb 2006 @ 20:40 by vibrani : Johnnyboy
How were you haunted? Can you share your experience?  

15 Feb 2006 @ 22:05 by AL @ : to johnny
Johnny I have experienced huantings but they might not be for real cos I was doin alot of acid at the time,which as a man brought up as a strict roman catholic (God forgive my mother) was a time I felt far closer to god.In fact once I realiied I was GOD,but more in the sense of being one with the universe mate.
Many religion say we are all as one and depend on eachother and I think that is right,but people like you who are probably a nice man are the sought of people that put people like vibrani ,cyrus and me off religion,it's scary that you can give yourself up to something like that and use the mumbo-jumbo words that you do.Dont get me wrong faith is a wonderful thing in many ways and sometimes I wish I had it but I feel I would be betraying my inner self to beleave in your man made codswallop.
Jesus by the way is buried in Srnigar in northern pakistan,along side a 14 century muslim cleric.Apparently he went there after the cross and was a teacher dying at the age of 82.That is much more believable!

As for ghosts then maybe,my mate found a black magic book and used it,and he also had visions of ghosts,plus he seriously believed in another world,but he didnt believe in charity and some might say he was pretty fucked up.Anyway johnny save your spiel for others you know might care cos you sound like my mother and she does my nut in.

(all said with a smile, love and my eyes up to heaven)  

15 Feb 2006 @ 22:39 by Cyrus @ : To Johnnyboy
You don't understand what I am saying at all it seems. There are many things that cannot be explained (YET) by science or logic or reason, but they might be in the near future. For me Science and Mathematics is one of the most powerful proofs that there is a(or several) God(s). Furthermore, the world I see in front of me is the only one that I logically reason in, and it is complex enough. I don't need to add angels and demons and Jesus to it. I never said or implied that man is the measure of all things; I certainly believe that dolphins and many other mammals are far more intelligent than man. The only reason they are dominating us, is because we have HANDS and FEET, which gives us the "manual work" edge or the ability to contruct with our hands the fruit of our thoughts. The gene story is just a biological remark that tries to determine WHY man believes in things that are irrational. And believe me, the bible, koran,etc... contain a good deal of irrational stuff. Why do even believe to begin with? What difference does it make whether God exists or doesn't or whether Jesus was resurrected or not? Is this going to change the fact that you will die just like everyone else? The main reason that man believes in things stems from our fear of the unknown. This fear is perfectly natural. All I am saying is that there are messages such as love and compassion that are far more important than ghosts or whether Jesus flew to heaven, or whether he is or is not the son of God. Love and compassion unfortunately are taking a back seat to Christians who say they love Jesus, but who want to wage war on others for not espousing their beliefs or who believe that being gay and having abortions are sins far greater than killing, stealing, lying, etc... It is as though all the important values of mankind are being hijacked by people who want to see their faith triumphant, even if it means killing and hurting others.  

15 Feb 2006 @ 23:17 by Cyrus @ : To Johnnyboy
Also, I believe that logic and reason are the laws of the universe. You are of course entitled to believe whatever you want and your beliefs can be just as correct as mine. However, your belief requires believing, whereas what I am saying is rational. Belief in essence is irrational and since I have a highly cartisian mindframe, I cannot buy into your beliefs or anyone elses without there being some logic or reason behind it. Why? Because you should refrain from trying to explain things with belief when science is not advanced enough to give you an answer for it. Sure, science like religion also goes overboard sometimes. But, science is (or should be) based on reason and logic and that is, in my opinion, the essence of God. Otherwise, the whole universe would be in a chaotic form, with people flying all over the place. There is a reason why everything is in order. There are millions of examples where faith has tried to explain something that ended up being demonstrated through science in a logical way. Take the piece of meteorite that fell from the sky 1,000 years ago and that Muslims interpreted as a gift from God. Obviously they were not aware of how the universe was structured and that what they had in their hands was just an object in space that had collided with earth and disintegrated (thank God!!) in the stratosphere.

If you really seek to marvel and brag about God or Jesus, look at the golden number PHI and how this simple number is incorporated in every single object from the earth to our own Milky Way. And thats God's genius at work and already a perfectly rational way to marvel at the order that was induced out of chaos but the entity we call God.


15 Feb 2006 @ 23:29 by Cyrus @ : Mistake
In the post before the previous one, read (fifth line): "...they are NOT dominating us".  

15 Feb 2006 @ 23:41 by bushman : Hmm
The things we do, culturaly, to remember not to get the mark of the beast. We don't really know what it looks like, but then why warn us not to get it, even though without it, you won't be able to buy or sell anything? Barcode, chips, tatoos? No one knows but those that plan to give people the mark of the beast for said purposes. Of course no one knows either, that getting the mark is a bad thing. Still if your friend needs to do something odd with his barcoded products, its only to remember not to get the mark of the beast. Info writen in a past time, in such a way that the future interpitation would make sence? Or another silly human myth? An ancaint book warning us not to take the mark in the future, is this where God draws the line, or is this how mankind draws the line between freedom and slavery? Its your own choice, either way.  

16 Feb 2006 @ 00:05 by Cyrus @ : Bushman
True; first one has to believe that there is a devil. And if one does believe it exists, how would anyone know what it looks like?; the devil could of written the bible for all we know.  

16 Feb 2006 @ 00:29 by vibrani : Devil
It has been said that the Devil's greatest trick was in convincing the world he didn't exist. I disagree. If the Devil does exist, then his greatest trick is also a great irony: he has convinced millions of people to spread judgment and fear in God's name! He has tricked people of weak faith into believing that God's love is limited and finite; that God will judge Its children as unworthy and will punish them in Hell for their sins, and he gets these people to preach this gospel of fear IN GOD'S NAME! Even the Christians acknowledge that the Devil can quote Scripture to suit his own purposes, yet the idea escapes them that the Devil (or just plain human fear and greed) could have convinced people to subvert the Scriptures themselves.  

16 Feb 2006 @ 04:17 by PAUL @ : MOHAMMED CARTOONS
EVERYBODY GET BACK TO THE ORIGANAL TOPIC. This is a fuckn joke. What the Fuck is all the hubbub bub? I personally like the virgin cartoon. In fact i'm gonna make copys and give um to my friends.  

16 Feb 2006 @ 04:41 by vibrani : Oh my
Since when is this YOUR blog, Paul?  

16 Feb 2006 @ 04:47 by Saqib @ : Pain We Have
Every one should know that our great Prophet is more repectful to us than any other relation, more repectful to us from our parents. So anyone can forsee the pain we could have, if any such issue raised which relates to respect of our Prophet.
European society has good morals in the sense thay give respect to everyone besides of any relegion, its realy shocking if such an event could happen, may is it showing their internal disliking for muslims or just what they say independence of expression.
Every relegion teaches respect for others, and good ethics is prime lesson of Islam.  

16 Feb 2006 @ 05:28 by johnnyboy @ : rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
ok cyrus. you believe what you believe. I believe what I believe. all well and good. I happen to like science and math as well. and i have a very inquisitive mind. that however has nothing to do with my faith, and you saying that people shouldn't try to explain things based on belief is illogical in itself. i can explain the things i see in front of me and i xan extrapolate and forumulate beliefs based upon indirect evidence. astronomers are doing that based upon the gravitational wobble of other stars, finding planets around them. they haven't directly seen one but have inferred from calculations based upon this wobble that others planets are orbiting these stars. and yes i think pi is cool and all as well as the golden mean. gives me even greater faith in Christ. he's everywhere! and no paul this isn't your blog, though to get back on topic the muslims are pretty radical to be going off on the cartoon thing...  

16 Feb 2006 @ 05:37 by johnnyboy @ : al and vibrani
yes i was haunted. though haven't ever dropped acid. so i was very lucid at the time. happened back in early 90s. was staying in an old apartment complex with my then girlfriend (living in sin!) saw things move on their own ( lampshade, all the doors and windows were shut), lights go on and off, heard a woman crying, footsteps on the stairs, other tenants saw the same things, felt cold spots, felt as if someone was watching me, etc. your typical haunting. can i prove it. no. did it happen? oh yea!. wasn't into the drug scene ,hadn't been drinking, never been diagnosed as schizophrenic or anything. I guess my point is that logic and rationality will never be able to explain everything. there are mysteries that we'll never be able to explain. just my little old 2 cents. see ya!  

16 Feb 2006 @ 06:03 by vibrani : Johnnyboy
thanks for your answer. This isn't a mystery to me - it's my one of my professions, actually. Did you find out who was the woman spirit, did you ask her anything or help her out? (I feel a male spirit there, too, this just came to me as I'm typing this. He actually had me type out the word "man." I thought I was writing something else and then I saw what was written lol wants attention.)

As for demanding Muslims, "I order you to respect my prophet" and all that crap, I'm ignoring them.  

16 Feb 2006 @ 06:34 by johnnyboy @ : profession?
are you into paranormal science? hmmm. interesting. well i don't know what to say except i don't dabble in the occult. there's no answers there. see you later going to bed now. have a good day or night depending on where in the world you are.....  

16 Feb 2006 @ 06:36 by vibrani : Yes
I'm into the paranormal (I have received MANY answers in this field) and other things...I'm in California. Are you a member of NCN? (This site.) Good night.  

16 Feb 2006 @ 07:24 by johnnyboy @ : california!
oh ok. now i understand!! just kidding. good night my friend. sleep soundly and tell them spirits to let you sleep soundly as well. :)  

16 Feb 2006 @ 07:26 by johnnyboy @ : member?
no not a member. just a net surfin fool with many varied interests.  

16 Feb 2006 @ 15:12 by reha @ : to : a dane and vibrani
Thanks for the links you sent me about the Armenian problem it gives useful information to see the event from their perspective . But what is missing there are :
- It never mentions about the Turkish, Kurdish etc muslim villagers massacred by the Armenian militants.
- That Armanians had passed to the Russian side in the war and fought against us .
- It does not explain how it is possible to have losses much higher than their total population.
- It does not explain why and how it all started out of the blue after having lived together for almost 1000 years. so on ..

There are always two sides of every story in the world history. But the western world in general is very much used to listen the side of the story which fits better into their interests and benefits.

All the web pages I was able to find about this issue was prepared by the Armenians. There were only very few prepared by us and most of them did not work.The only two which works are unfortunately in Turkish. Our universities keep organizing conferences and discussions about this issue recently.

After all, whatever happened does not seem right and we can only resolve this problem by sitting together with them and agreeing about the facts, numbers, reasons , results and preparing a common declaration which explains all the truth not only from one perspective. We declared many times that we are ready to this but got no response from the Armenians.

Best rgds

16 Feb 2006 @ 18:16 by Cyrus @ : To Johnnyboy
I was referring to phi (the golden mean you spoke of afterwards), not pi. Phi is much more amazing, I think, than pi is. To end the debate, I guess my point is that given the order in the universe, everything has a rational explanation. So, all the irrational stuff has a rational explanation; I am sure even ghosts can be explained, just as the soul might be the result of a mass difference between the living body and the dead one. I truly believe that everything inevitably is governed by equations, since order was created out of chaos when the universe was created. And that is the beauty of God(s). The only hick that we must remember is that we haven't discovered all these equations yet; therefore, just because something cannot be explained today, doesn't mean it cannot be in the future (as history has proven). This means that we should not use irrationale in order to explain things that cannot yet be explained through science.

BTW: Not to offend anyone, but I have always wondered if the universe was not in reality the residu from some entity's gas expulsion (the fart kind). Think of it, the universe contains gases and is all black with objects in between. Guess God must have gone a bit too wild on the Chili!! If that were true, then God's second would be equivalent to billions of years in our time!! That's truly wacky.  

16 Feb 2006 @ 20:09 by Cyrus @ : To Reha
"There are always two sides of every story in the world history. But the western world in general is very much used to listen the side of the story which fits better into their interests and benefits."

Actually, history is always written by the victors. For example, that is how a blood-hungry war mongerer like Alexander got dubbed "the Great", when there wasn't anything great about him.  

17 Feb 2006 @ 01:50 by Cyrus @ : To Johnnyboy
One thing: I am not saying that one should only trust that which one sees. Mathematics is also abstract, yet based on logic and reason. Logic and Reason are not solely linked to what one sees, hears, feels, smells or touches. Logic and Reason are also used to formulate equations in regards to things we cannot see (YET), just as equations were formulated for the atom, quarks and string theory, which were (or are) too small to see or for the black hole (which is invisble). Furthermore, trying to explain something through belief IS ILLOGICAL, simply because logic is based on rational. Belief (or Faith) does not require any rational reasoning, because it is what it says:"a BELIEF". One can believe in one's faith that cows fly, but that is perfectly irrational, since mathematically it is not possible (unless you throw a cow off a plane and watch it fall to the ground).  

17 Feb 2006 @ 06:05 by johnnyboy @ : cyrus
cyrus, you're obviously intelligent. i'll give you that. but i think you just like to hear yourself talk. if you're gonna take a shot at evangelists, just come out and say that you don't like evangelists. i dont think anybody here really likes to read about how you don't like religion. you've already made that point, over and over and over and over and over and over...basically, i think that you're just arrogant, elitist, and a snob, you make me vomit  

17 Feb 2006 @ 06:16 by AJ @ : trigger happy crazies....
This ceased being about religion a long time ago, just hype for a bunch of trigger happy crazed individuals who probably dont have real jobs. Shoot the lot of them i say.  

17 Feb 2006 @ 10:46 by johnnyhboy @ : aj
your probably right. i am kinda trigger happy being as how i carry a gun for a living in my no so real job-glock 22:)  

17 Feb 2006 @ 14:56 by cyrus @ : hateful cyrus
cyrus you just hate the west! you cant hide it anymore. go back to your persia.  

17 Feb 2006 @ 19:40 by Gellomonkee @ : Crazy pictures and Crazy people
It's amazing! Religion and politics are the two main reason people and countries go to war. I personally think that people should be free to practice thier religion as long as it does harm to no one else. I do not know much about the Muslim faith except that there are a bunch of whackos out there who hate the Western civilization because of it. And personally anyone who believes that they will get 72 virgins in heaven if they blow themselves and any westerners up is a complete idiot. I also think that those same whackos and the nutjobs who are rioting over a stupid cartoon are just plain stupid. People in general need to learn to lighten up. The whole muslim world needs to lighten up and not be so fanatical. Quit being so offended GEEZ! Did you see Christians riot when someone posts a Satire of Jesus? I have personally seen people in the name of "Art" put a Jesus figurine in a jar of urine and call it art. Sure some people were upset and offended but noone started burning buildings and crap. Those who were offened simply didn't go see the artists other works. No big deal! Anyway any religious leader, prophet or whatever who promotes death and war can't be good. To me a religion is a belief you have faith in that strengthens you morally, mentally & physically. Something you can draw strength from when you need it. Not something that tells you to go kill this person or that person simply because they believe something else.  

17 Feb 2006 @ 19:57 by Cyrus @ : Hating the West???
No, I never said I hated the West, becausing hating it would be hating myself, which I don't yet. However, I am currently opposed to the Bush Administration and to neo-cons at large if you really want to know. Furthermore, don't necessarily dissociate Iran with the West so easily, as there is much in common. I guess there is good and bad in every country. I did point out the bad, but there is also much good that I haven't (yet) pointed out. As far as religion goes, I'll stop. The "evangelist" remark is quoted from a movie. It is only an interesting twist to the word, nothing more. I don't really believe that evangelists are evil; except those tele-evangelists who want to take people's money! Religion is actually central to this cartoon problem we have here, and my point was that religion is the problem itself. Simply because you don't agree with me doesn't mean you have to take it personally and call me names. To the contrary, I am opposed to elitism, snobism, arrogance, etc... Apparently, some people here are exactly that, claiming that Christianity is divine and Islam is crap. Who is the elitist now? At least I recogonize that all religions are the same.

P.S.: The Persia I want doesn't exist anymore.  

17 Feb 2006 @ 23:20 by Occams Razor @ : The Thing Speaks For Itself
Cartoons don’t kill people, muslims kill people! It’s time to wake up and smell the coffee, and oh by the way I’ll have a Cheese ‘Rose of the Prophet Mohammad’ to go with that!
If Islam is a peaceful religion, and not a repressive 6th century belief, explain to me why the Grand Imam in Mecca has not, I repeat HAS NOT, condemned the violence brought about by “true” believers?
Res ipsa loquitur  

17 Feb 2006 @ 23:21 by mishka @ : to cyrus
the question here is why do you hate evangelists? and why would you hate the bush administration and the neo-cons? is it bec what the stand for is the opposite of what you believe in!?i think you are an islamists in hiding.and you do hate the white west and view it as a threat. like a true iranian! you cant fool me.  

17 Feb 2006 @ 23:40 by Cyrus @ : What the FUCK Mishka??
What the FUCK is the matter with you??? I don't like Bush and the Neo-Cons because I'm a liberal, you dickweed. And then you have the nerve of insulting Iranians??? Do you know that Iranians are INDO-EUROPEANS you piece of shit??? So what is this White West Bullshit?? And the next time you call me an Islamist, I will personally rip your head off, you fuck. I am Kurdish, Belgian by blood and American since the age of 12, and I was KICKED OUT, yes KICKED OUT of Iran during the revolution (when I was only 3 years old), becaue my family was royalist. My family lost everything because of Islam, everything. And my mother's family is dead because of it. I had to watch my mother die of cancer, because she was fighting to get our confiscated belongings back from these MOTHERFUCKING Mullahs and fanatical Islamist who don't shave, bathe, clean themselves and who reek of shit. I have already stated that I DON'T LIKE RELIGION, ANY RELIGION. You got that or do I have to nail it into your fucking brain??  

17 Feb 2006 @ 23:47 by Wtfdude chill out @ : LMFAO CYRUS

17 Feb 2006 @ 23:49 by Wtfdude chill out @ : You tell em Cyrus
CYRUS* I would also like to say sorry for your mom, may she rest in peace  

17 Feb 2006 @ 23:59 by Cyrus @ : To Wtfdude chill out
Thank you, that's very kind of you. I sort of lost it there. I guess as your nickname says, I should chill out.  

18 Feb 2006 @ 01:10 by To Mishka @ : And by the way...
And by the way, many "true" Iranians are Jewish, like the current Israeli president and defence minister. And such historical figures as Daniel, Esther and Mordecai lived in Iran. And, even today, Daniel's tomb is in Iran (Susa) and a tomb still visited by many Iranian Jews. And even though today's Iran is ruled by a fanatical clique, there are still religious minorities such as Zoroastrians, Catholics, Nestorians. So, go read your history book before opening your mouth.  

18 Feb 2006 @ 03:00 by Cyrus @ : To Mishka
"you cant fool me":


18 Feb 2006 @ 04:06 by vibrani : Why you neer hear Muslim jokes
Why you never hear Muslim jokes

Jackie Mason

Muslim fundamentalists have decided that even if you never saw or heard of the cartoons, you deserve to be hit with rocks, have your car wrecked and your embassies destroyed.

Ironically, the cartoonists were not insulting Islam; they were satirising fanaticism. Now the fanatics have decided that there are no laws, limits or boundaries that apply to their behaviour. They not only have the right to take your life; they now have the right to rob you of your freedom of expression.

Could you picture a Jew killing anybody for such meaningless reasons? If a Jew gets mad he might sneak into your house and steal your Lipitor or he would make a deal with your doctor to lie about your cholesterol number, or just when you have fasted a whole day on Yom Kippur he would sneak into your house and steal all the pastrami sandwiches.

I never saw a Jew going into meaningless fights. That is why you seldom see Jewish football players. A Jew is not going to take a chance in spraining his neck or tearing a ligament in his knee just because he was fighting with somebody about catching a ball. He would rather go to a store and buy another ball and avoid the whole problem. That is why there are also no Jewish hockey players. Hockey players spend all their time hitting each other in the mouth with sticks. When Jews saw how Gentiles played hockey, that is how Jews found out that instead of becoming hockey players they would become dentists, and that way they decided to let other people play the game while they found a way to make a profit from it.

Jews are never known to get into unnecessary physical battles. That is why people are never afraid of being attacked by a Jew. Did you ever hear anybody say, Don’t go into that neighbourhood, it is very dangerous, there are a lot of Jews there’? Jews have so long been accustomed to being threatened and persecuted all over the world that they could never dream of creating needless violence anywhere, because they would be grateful to find a place where they are allowed to live in peace.

Meanwhile, the world is reacting with an amazing cowardice. Instead of a collective fury, we are pleading forgiveness and promising not to offend them with any more cartoons. Could anything be more perverted?  

18 Feb 2006 @ 05:12 by Cyrus @ : To Vibrani: very interesting expose
Thank you for your historical perspective. I actually was attacking Mishka's "like a true Iranian" crap. My point in the matter was that Iranian Jews often considered themselves as Iranians first, and I have witnessed this with the many Jewish Iranian friends that I have had in the US. It is a remarkable thing that a country like Iran tended (mostly, not always) to make people of diverse social backgrounds mold into one people, even though everyone kept their own beliefs. I am sure during the shah's time, people would say that they were Iranian, regardles of whether they were Zoroastrian, Jewish, Muslim or Catholic. I am even sure that President Ahmadinejad himself must have had a Jewish ancestor, much like it is a believed that Adolf Hitler had a Jewish Grandmother. Funny world we live in.  

18 Feb 2006 @ 05:27 by Cyrus @ : Jackie Mason's Article
That is because Jews are SMART. It isn't for nothing that many prominent scientists, writers, composers are Jewish. That reminds me of how the Nazis portrayed the Jews as being stupid monkeys. Of course, when Oppenheimer, Fermi, Einstein and others left Europe, the joke was on the Germans. Hitler made a major gaffe in attacking the Jews and blaming them for Germany's economic problems. He was very good at helping rebuild Germany after World War I, but it is truly ashame that he had an inferiority complex in regards to the Jews (and everyone else deemed inferior) to go with it. Of course that blame has its source in World War I. He argued that the Germans weren't losing the war (World War I), and that therefore the Jews signed a premature peace treaty, giving up to the allies. Well, first of all, it wasn't the Jews that signed any document of rendition; the Kaiser did that himself. And what the Nazis failed to understand, was that unless the war ended, the Spanish Flu could have potentially wiped out mankind and obviously all the soldiers in the trenches. I guess its a tragic human nature to want to blame others for our own shortcomings, or worse for a force majeur that no one controls!  

18 Feb 2006 @ 05:27 by vibrani : Let's be politically correct, Cyrus
lol Iranian Jews say they are Persian, not Iranian, even though they live or were born in Iran. They prefer the Persian association when things were more classy, I think.

Yes there are rumors that Hitler had a Jewish ancestor. I think he hated himself no matter what he was. All his attempts to have the perfect race were because he felt inferior.  

18 Feb 2006 @ 05:29 by vibrani : Funny
I was posting as you were posting and we said some of the same things.  

18 Feb 2006 @ 05:40 by Cyrus @ : vibrani
Great minds think alike. Though I admit, my mind is not that great.  

18 Feb 2006 @ 05:56 by johnnyboy @ : cyrus/mishka
cyrus, your outlash at mishka wasn't very "compassionate or loving" you "idiot". Remember those words you so kindly spoke to me? I think she deserves an apology. and what's wrong with a White West? don't like whitey? I'm as white as snow. And yes we know already, for about the 40th time, you don't like religion. You din't sound very reasonable or logical to me. Are you going to calculate an equation to explain your outburst? Please enlighten me oh imperious one. w. that stands for dubya. know what I mean? hehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehhe  

18 Feb 2006 @ 06:38 by Cyrus @ : To Johnnyboy
True, it was not a compassionate or loving outburst. And therefore quite irrational on my part. As much as I pointed my disdain (sometimes a bit too violently) towards belief, I did not single out a person by name in my posts and then assume that they were in league with people who had obviously hurt them or driven them out of their country. Moreover, I did not quite understand the differenciation she made between the White West and Iran. I should point out that Iranians, Indians, Afghanis etc.. are indo-european. So I don't believe there should be a clash of cultures with the West (and truly there is much in common, starting with the language), though a clash of religion does unfortunately exist (hence the source of some of my disdain: to see people fighting over religion). Furthermore, quite a few Iranians are "white" and the West itself is not composed entirely of white people, so evidently the somehwhat racist allusion is out of context in Mishka's post. Just because I don't like something or someone that Mishka likes, doesn't mean that she should automatically brand me as X or Y. In the narrow vision she presented, it seems as though anyone who does not like evangelists, Bush or neo-cons is an Islamist. I guess then that liberals, the democrats and 50% of Americans are Islamists according to her logic. And to finish off: the so-called "true" Iranians don't view the West as a threat, since oh say 70%!! of the population are youngsters that want the freedoms and liberties represented by the West and hate the current regime. And of course, as exiles literally fleeing a country where Shiite Radicals surrounding Khomeini would have preferred to cut our heads off, I don't think we hold the Islamist in our hearts! True I branded all believers as "idiots" (though some others who posted here said similar things), but I did apologize in my post if that offended you (if you read it). I did get carried away in some of my posts, but they are a more passionate way of getting my point across, which I won't dwell on. However, I think Mishka's remarks were just as inappropriate, if not more. Good luck and good night.  

18 Feb 2006 @ 13:35 by mishka @ : to cyrus
i think you disclosed yourself more then ever this time. last time i have heard someone wanting to cut a head off was in an islamist talk so so much about the jews,do you have a complex with them to? like you have with the whites? i find you very bitter about so many issues. and i think the clash of civilization is no more evident then in you. and oh sorry i think i meant you talk like a true ROYALIST IRANIAN!and i am not sure if you aware of it, but the united states of america isnt talking to iran. so its about time you chose sides here.(i forgive you by the way).  

18 Feb 2006 @ 15:09 by johnnyboy @ : cyrus
why don't you just apologize and leave it that? you go on and on and on and on. jeez man, shorten it up a little. i think you must have supeiority complex or something. short and sweet, that would be nice. GWB for pres!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

18 Feb 2006 @ 16:06 by mishka @ : to johnnyboy
thank you very much for defending me. it was nice of you.i like you and vibrani most!  

18 Feb 2006 @ 18:29 by Yet Another Visitor @ : Ming the Mechanic: Mohammed Cartoons
1) Cartoons: low quality, absolutely flat and boring.

2) Reaction: rage, fights, war, kills, money for a kill.

3) Diagnosis: you all are nuts.

4) Personal opinion: nothing new, I've seen that before.

Bottom line: boring, we are not going anywhere with this shit. Fuck off. Get a life. Do something useful. All of you. Together.

18 Feb 2006 @ 19:04 by Cyrus @ : Mishka
Well, I am not personally a royalist, though Iran was better off with the Shah than with what you have now. The discussion about the Jews started when Hanna brought up the Holocaust issue in reference to how the cartoons were being perceived; I have personally no grudge. What is it with you and the whites? Visibly, you are the one who brought this issue up, not me. I am only bitter towards how religion (yes yet again) has been used to justify war, killings etc... Some of the bitterness obviously stems from the fact that some of my family is dead because of it. I have already chosen sides, since I am more in line with the liberals. I also want to see a free and democratic Iran, where religion would be kept in the temples, mosques, churches, etc... and the State would be run with total separation of State and Church (something that worries me here in the US). I am sorry if I lashed out at you so violently, but your post essentially was the same as calling a Holocaust survivor a Nazi. Calling me an Islamist when I have lost so much because of them, obviously touches a very sensitive nerve. I think you should be aware that it is all too easy to attack Islam, when you haven't really lost anyone or anything personal because of it. Maybe if you had, you would see things differently. And btw, why don't you go read about Iran and its history if you are so willing to talk about it. To put an end to this, I think that as much as I overreacted, you should have the decency of apologizing for your namecalling, especially since it seems that anyone who opposes your point of view gets to get called an Islamist or whatever whatnot.  

18 Feb 2006 @ 19:35 by Cyrus @ : The West
BTW, the West is much more than Evangelists, Bush and The Neo-Cons. So, there are many Westerners who don't like any of those.  

18 Feb 2006 @ 19:52 by LIsa @ : Hate?
Honestly, in America there is no fighting on the streets between muslims and christians. It's true we consider muslims different, but hey muslims wear hijabs on their heads, and that just makes them different. I'm not saying muslims are weird, and strange. Just different. The cartoons that were published, where published by danish people not Americans. Americans haven't hurt muslims in any way. It's true we may be on the french and danish side, but thats because we belive they should be able to practice their self-cesorship, and freedom of speech. Also if Muslims believe were stupid, because we think there terrorists their wrong in the first place, because we don't ALL think their terrorists. Then on behalf of the people who believe muslims are terrorists, I understand their point of veiw. I mean what "NON-terrorists" burn down buildings over a cartoon? I don't belive their are such things. Maybe Terrorists.  

18 Feb 2006 @ 20:42 by mishka @ : to cyrus
sorry if i hurted your feelings by calling you an islamists, since you have lost so many dear people in your family by the same people. you arnt representing the iranian pepole. your views are in the minority in iran and we both know that. so as much as you are passionate about iran and wanting to put your point across, you are still a verry small minority.most iranians shout down with america and israel.and thats what count!  

18 Feb 2006 @ 22:18 by Wtf Dude CHill out @ : Cyrus, mishka , vibrani
I think Cyrus would know his country better. cuz he is from Iran after all... just making a point.  

18 Feb 2006 @ 22:25 by Wtf Dude CHill out @ : XXX
The terrorists and fanatics all over the place not just in Iran, Watch the news They are littraly ALL OVER THE PLACE. and in the middle east People Praise World leaders as if they were god (ARAFAT) kinda creepy if you ask me.  

18 Feb 2006 @ 22:58 by Cyrus @ : Actually
Actually, the voices that you hear are those of a minority of fanatics ( I mentioned the Basij paramilitary forces in previous posts). I have heard that many of the common people are absolutely fed up with the regime. The reasons are simple:

1. The majority earn anywhere between 100 to 200 dollars a month and this by working double shifts (thats anywhere between 16 and 20 hours a day), while the ruling Mullahs put and are putting all the petrodollars in their own pockets.

2. People are fed up with the constraints on their freedom. When the revolution initially occurred, some of the revolutionnaries were seeking the establishment of a democracy and the separation of State and Church. They thought they could use Khomeini to reach that goal. The laugh was on them, unfortunately, since the hardliners surrounding Khomeini killed most of the pro-democracy leaders or forced them into exile.

3. 70 to 80% of the population consist of youngsters under the age of 25. The regime has attempted to bring them up to value the revolution and the "Islamic" way of life. It failed miserably. As multiple demonstrations against the regime has shown in the 90s and a few years ago, the younger generation has seen the freedom and liberties on TV/Internet that is being denied to them. When you are young and you see people dancing and flirting and enjoying themselves, you will also want to experience it.

4. All the intellectuals (writers, journalists,etc..) that oppose the regime or who insult the revolution in any way are and have been imprisoned. One University Professor openly said that the Supreme Leader is useless. I believe his quote was: " What do they think we are?? MOnkeys? We don't need Mullahs to teach us how to live or behave". The professor was sent to jail.

My opinion is that Islam has no place in Iran. The religion preaches sorrow and champions crying and moaning for so-called "Martyrs" who have died thousands of years ago in more than suspicious ways. The Persian culture is more attached to Zoroastrianism (the original Persian religion), since it is founded more on "love of life", as demonstrated by numerous poets, songs, etc...And obviously a need to have fun, demonstrated by some games invented in Persia (polo, backgammon, etc...) and numerous musical instruments used in the country. The arab and subsequent mongolian invasions have introduced an affliction unto the culture; the arabs (and now the clerics) have notably tried to forbid the Persian New Year celebrated at the Spring Equinox and dating back to ancient times. I tell you, if the Muslims invade your country, they will surely try to annihilate your culture. Islam has picked fights with every major religion in one way or another:

- Muslims have persecuted Zoroastrians
- Muslims have persecuted Jews
- Muslims have persecuted Catholics
- Muslims have persecuted Bouddhists and have blown away their statues in Afghanistan

Islam has all too often succumbed to fanaticism, and when it has, it has sought to forcefully convert people or kill them. Christianity has also succumbed to this phenomenon numerous times. I guess we are now witnessing the Islamic Inquisition, much like the one we had some 600 years ago in Europe. History repeats itself. Very tragic.

P.S.: A big problem is however arising in the nuclear standoff. The tension is giving the regime a getaway excuse to rally people under a nationalistic banner. Patriotism runs high in Iran, just like in the US. The danger is that this patriotism could blind the people from their everyday woes and the fact that all that is due to the regime. As they say, when the people hate your guts and want you removed, find a way to rally them to a common cause. The regime is trying to do just that by playing the Patriot Card and therefore diverting their gigantic shortcomings and the hatred the populace has for them.  

18 Feb 2006 @ 23:10 by Cyrus @ : Wtf Dude CHill out
Born in Iran, raised in the US and Switzerland, of Belgian, Kurdish and Azarbaijani heritage Belgian & American citizen. A real salad mix if you wish. However my knowledge of Iran is mostly from the News or History books. My half-brother is even worse: born in the US, French, American and Belgian citizen, half Indian (from India) and Kurdish. My half-sister is better: only half Swiss-half Kurdish. Fun,Fun,Fun....

Oh! one reason why the majority of Iranians are against the regime was demonstrated in George W's last State of The Union Speech. I don't like George W., but I have much respect for his very clever speech; he was pretty smart in not afflicting the populace as it is, since another revolution in Iran is the best bet of getting rid of the Mullahs; only problem is: you need someone to govern once their gone, and that someone has not appeared yet.  

18 Feb 2006 @ 23:54 by mishka @ : to cyrus
cyrus adinhajad was elected by a majority not a minority! and i think you are a kurdish belgian not iranian at all. so what are you going on and on about!? and what really are you tring to prove? that most iranians want peace and freedom? i strongly believe that regimes are coming from the people not the other way around.  

19 Feb 2006 @ 00:26 by mishka @ : to cyrus
the common cause for the iranians and to the muslim world in general is to down america and israel. thats where their passion lays! and thats how their leaders mobilise them.they been doing it for years!and really you cant convince me otherwise. and by now i am sure many other people.  

19 Feb 2006 @ 00:58 by Cyrus @ : Majority in Iran Boycotted Elections
" cant convince me otherwise"

Well that's ashame, but I guess that is the way you will see Iran, until (and this will happen) the people are so enraged and fed up with the regime, that a revolution will occur and all the Mullahs and fundamentalists will probably be hanged.

"cyrus adinhajad was elected by a majority not a minority!"

Actually the younger generation stupidly boycotted the elections, since reformers were massively barred from parliament and the presidential elections. I should remind you that for some unholy reason, the Supreme Leader gets to chose the candidates. Heck, in 1997 and 2001 the people overwhelmingly (70%) voted for Khatami, who was championing more freedom and liberties and a rapprochment with the West. He even wanted to restart diplomatic relations with the US. But all his policies were blocked by the hardliners. The population was then disillusioned by the reformers and they didn't vote during the last presidential elections when it counted the most. Ahmadinejad won with roughly 15 millions votes, that the officials supposedly counted in a mere two hours!!!!Imagine, counting 15 million PAPER ballots all over a country of 68,000,000 and tallying the results in a mere two hours!!! Either the vote counters had eight hands each with one hundred fingers or there was a massive voting fraud. The president got through the first round only by a slim (0.5%) margin over the third place finisher, who incidentally was a reformer. Initially, the news announced this reformer as the runner-up who would go up against Rafsanjani (the pragmatic)in the second tour. Rafsanjani was overwhelmingly favored to win it all. If he had, he would certainly have tried to negotiate with the West and push for detente with the US. I actually believe he might have even tried a coup d'Etat against that little prick that calls himself the Supreme Leader ( and Ahmadinejad's strongest backer). And of course, in a country where people get to vote at age 16, that makes a potential pool of 0.90 * 68,000,000 total population = 61,200,000 voters. That means Ahmadinejad got one vote out of four, and that also by cheating. Now that is hardly a majority.

I probably can't convince you myself, so take it from GEORGE W. HIMSELF who (correctly; and this time he amazingly told us the truth) said that the people of Iran are held hostage by a minority of fanatical cliques and this in a State of the Union speech!! He WAS AND IS absolutely right.  

19 Feb 2006 @ 02:51 by mishka @ : to cyrus
"well thats a shame, but i guess that is the way you will see iran, until(and this will happen) the people are so enreged and fed up with the regime, that a revolution will occur and all the mullahs and fundamentalists will probably be hanged". and that most probably will never happen. muslims are fast in arm for a cartoon. willing to kill and die, but when it comes to their own peace and freedom then they are not willing to do the same. dont you wonder why!? and please dont tell me they are scared!!!!!!!!!!  

19 Feb 2006 @ 02:55 by Jordi @ : A Dane
6 Feb 2006 @ 13:16 by A Dane @ : Dear Muslims
Dear Muslims

Sorry, sorry
Sorry for giving you shelter and help
Sorry for giving you an education
Sorry for helping you financially
Sorry for allowing you to freely follow your faith in our Christian land
Sorry for sending aid to your countries
Sorry for not demanding blood revenge for the murders on our fellow countrymen, committed by muslims
Sorry for not running around with explosives on our bodies, when we feel offended( by you muslims )
Sorry for us not simply doing like your faith demands
But an excuse for uttering an opinion in our own country within our own laws - that you will never get !
If you do not like my country, please leave.
If you do not like the way our women dress, please leave.
If you do not like our separation of politics and religion, please leave.
If you support violent responses to criticism of Islam, please leave.
If you support terrorism in any way, shape or form, please leave.
If you cannot accept satirical cartoons in our newspapers, please leave.
If you do not support democracy or the freedom of speech, please leave my country.

A Dane
Excellent , best post ive seen yet!!!!!! How any group who follow a child molester can moan about a few cartoons is beyond me!!!!  

19 Feb 2006 @ 06:30 by Wtf Dude CHill out @ : Cyrus
I got ya brother! Forget complaining with these noobs they have Views that are Strong as a bull as you and I do, im sure we will all stick to them even if we are wrong, forget trying to convince them. Its all good its a dog eat dog world out there, Survival of the fittest, lets just live life as best as we can!  

19 Feb 2006 @ 12:36 by reha @ : to jordi and a dane
We gave our christian and also jewish citizens a shelter, freedom of their traditions, education, religion , ,trading, our good neighbourship and freindship,same and equal rights before the law and the state for 1000 years ,Even though we were not awarded but betrayed and penalized by them in the WW1( jewish are exempt from this comment they have always been good citizens of ours. We also helped and saved them from the inquision of Spanish Queen and , as much as we can, from Nazis.) . You could not bear with the muslims in Europe for less than 50 years in 21st century !. Is this what you understand from tolerence ? I don't even want to think what could have happened if there were muslim minorities in Europe 1000 years ago !!!  

19 Feb 2006 @ 13:41 by MISHKA @ : TO REHA
yes we canot bear it! you need a leader like saddam hussin. he knows how to traet you. you cant fool us. you must respect the law of the land! dont try and threaten people when they do things you dont like.YOU MUST LEARN TOLERENCE!  

19 Feb 2006 @ 14:00 by reha @ : to mishka
We know very well the tolerence as I said so many times that we lived together with the christians and jews for 1000 years . You are the uncivilized part of the world who has no idea about living together with different races,colors,religions,cultures,traditions, social and economical status ... so on. You cannot even bear to each other. You have a so called union where almost all the races think that they are superior to the others and the others are bugs. There are numerous conflicts between almost all the nations of EU . You should first get to an agreement on not to insult but respect each other maybe then you can also have a chance to learn that other people also exist in the world.  

19 Feb 2006 @ 14:16 by mishka @ : to cyrus
cyrus where are you today? the forum is missing you!  

19 Feb 2006 @ 16:21 by mishka @ : to reha
you are talking rubbish! we all seen on tv how your brothers burnt embassies and churches. and threatned with killings all danes. JUST SHUT UP!look in your own backyard first, dond tell other races how to run their country. and you keep on saying that you lived in harmony with christians and jews for 1000 what has happened to you?! it seems like you gone back a 1000 years if not more. or maybe i dont understand your kind of tolerence and harmony.  

19 Feb 2006 @ 20:39 by CR @ : Peace loving religion?
Can a Muslim explain to me if the Islam is a peace loving religion, Why the Qur’an labels Christians as infidels and why Allah rewards (and orders) Muslims for killing infidels? I don’t understand the peace-loving religion concept. Maybe peace loving Muslims are not good devoted Muslims.  

20 Feb 2006 @ 04:58 by Joseph @ : Nothings sacred
Religion is a leash. Nothing is sacred. If you know whats truly right in the eyes of your god good. But you should remember that everythings be said so there is no reason for you to say anything ever again.  

20 Feb 2006 @ 11:10 by johhnyboy @ : ass kicking
sounds like them muslims that kidnapped that poor jewish kid need their ever loving ass kicked. give me names and addresses and i'll take care of it. lol. just kidding. but still, if they did, they need their asses kicked. better yet. why don't all yall muslims that want to kill everybody come to texas? just try kidnapping somebody here. you just might get your heinies shot off with all the guns in Texas. or, you could go over to east dallas and try that shit. homey gangbanger will definitely put some ass whoopin on ya. hehehehehehehe  

20 Feb 2006 @ 12:04 by Preacherman @ : The Test:Will the real God show Himself!
I believe that Jesus Christ died for all. Never have I read of Him killing anyone. Never have I read of Him forcing anyone to "convert" or be "born-again". Whether Muslim or Christian or Hindu, NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO TORTURE, RAPE, BEAT, OR KILL OTHERS OF DIFFERENT BELIEFS! You can park your butt in a garage but that does not make you a Chevrolet. I make strong stances for my beliefs but never at the expense of someone's elses life. Besides the things Jesus taught were more actions than words. I believe that if Mohammed is real let us see his works. I believe Jesus is real because I have seen His.  

20 Feb 2006 @ 17:18 by WTF WTF!! @ : WTF!
Hamas: Islam will rule the world
West can take its financial aid and 'go to hell'

By Ryan Jones

February 8th, 2006

Hamas remains undeterred in its quest to ultimately see Israel annihilated, and says one day soon the tables will turn and the “Christian” West will be dependent on the good graces of its Muslim overlords.

For the time being, the United States and Europe can take their much needed financial aid and drop dead.

Washington, and to a lesser degree Western Europe, have been threatening to cut off the flow of money to a Hamas-led Palestinian Authority unless the group renounces its violent intentions, recognizes the Jewish state and works for a negotiated peace settlement.

Meeting with PLO chief Mahmoud Abbas in Gaza Saturday, Hamas' top parliamentary candidate, Ismail Haniyah, reiterated that his group will never accept Jewish sovereignty over even one inch of this land.

Gaza-based Hamas leader Mahmoud al-Zahar followed up by telling The Washington Post in his usual forthright manner:

“Israel is an illegal entity, and no amount of pressure can force us to recognize its right to exist... the western countries can take their aid and go to hell.”
Hamas determination to not compromise on Israel's destruction stems from its Islam-based belief that wiping out the Jewish state is just the first step towards world domination, as revealed by overall Hamas chief Khaled Mashal during an address at a Damascus mosque on February 3:

“We say to this West... By Allah, you will be defeated. You will be defeated in Palestine, and your defeat there has already begun. True, it is Israel that is being defeated there, but when Israel is defeated, its path is defeated, those who call to support it are defeated, and the cowards who hide behind it and support it are defeated. Israel will be defeated, and so will whoever supported or supports it.”
“Tomorrow, our nation will sit on the throne of the world. This is not a figment of the imagination, but a fact. ”
Mashal went on to point out the obvious reason why the West continues inching itself closer to defeat by pandering to what it believes are the “moderate” Muslim masses:

“They do not understand the Arab or Muslim mentality, which rejects the foreigner.”
This truth was exposed last month with Hamas' landslide electoral victory, despite assertions by the Bush Administration that the Palestinian Arab public would never vote in blood-soaked terrorists.  

20 Feb 2006 @ 17:21 by vibrani : bullies
that's what it comes to - bullies. The only illegal entity are the Palestinians. Look to see how is bailing out Hamas financially - Arab/Muslim nations - NOW they want to help them - terrorists all of them.  

20 Feb 2006 @ 17:43 by Wtf Dude CHill out @ : WWWWTFFFFFF!!!!!!
February 19, 2006
Muslims Assault U.S. Embassy in Indonesia
Cartoon rage continues.
From AP

Hundreds of Muslims protesting caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad tried to storm the U.S. Embassy on Sunday, smashing the windows of a guard post but failing to push through the gates. Several people were injured.


20 Feb 2006 @ 18:27 by DFASFSA @ : ASADFSA

20 Feb 2006 @ 19:30 by Cyrus @ : I am very very worried...
I hope Musharraf will not end up being toppled because of this. If that happens, the radicals will have nuclear weapons:

"In Pakistan, radical Islamic leaders called for more prophet drawings protests after the upcoming Friday Muslim prayers and lawmakers disrupted a session of Parliament, protesting sweeping arrests before a banned demonstration over the weekend.

The rallies in Pakistan appear to be taking on more of an anti-government dimension. Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf is a close ally of the United States."  

20 Feb 2006 @ 20:52 by serebo @ : Weezah all gonna dieeeeee!
HAHAHA INFILTRATIONNNNNNNNNNNN, I tell you the Islamic radicals are gonna win this one with islam by their side and the whole worlds Pussy'ness to react to THE INFILTRATION, IT HAPPEND TO IRAN and ITS SLOWLY HAPPENING EVERY WERE ELS AND ALL HAVE FAILED TO REALIZE, YOU HAVE TO FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE!!! If we continue to be pussies we will be dominated. LOOK IN THE HISTORY BOOKS IT HAS HAPPEND BEFORE, Fight now or die later.  

20 Feb 2006 @ 20:55 by serebo @ : I FORGOT TO MENTION

20 Feb 2006 @ 21:11 by Cyrus @ : Sad

That's just sad.

I was never more proud to be Persian, than the day (I believe in 1997 or 1998) young soccer fans fueled with anger and frustration took to the streets chanting:

"Marg bar Islam" ("Marg"=Murderer or Death)=
"Death to Islam"  

20 Feb 2006 @ 22:18 by Cyrus @ : The Silent Majority
Well the tables have turned my friend, now days its " Death to Infidels "

Well actually there are two voices in Iran:

1. Death to America, Infidels, etc... = Fanatical Clerics and their todies, such as the current president and his clique (the Basij)= an extreme minority trying to survive by turning the people's attention away from the regime and towards the fact that the West denies them progress in the form of nuclear technology; or so they say. They use the Patriot/Nationalistic Card to rally a people that hate them to the bone.

2. Death to Islam (or at least to extremism and oppression applied by the regime) = Younger generation longing for freedom and liberties and all Persian intellectuals and journalists(most of whom are in jail).

Voice number 2 is stronger in number than voice number 1. However, voice number 1 controls the parliament, the executif and judicial branches of government, and the media. Voice number 2 is fed up with the regime, but too disillusioned and in dispair to muster a rebellion, especially after the reformers failed to improve their lives. Voice number 2 is the silent majority, silenced by the current president, who is trying to divert hatred for the regime towards a matter of national pride (nuclear technology). Voice number 2 is the future and shall ultimately prevail, when all those Mullah skeletons die off. At least, let us hope.  

20 Feb 2006 @ 22:46 by serebo @ : Yes
I belive what you say, I heard a story in the news very recently about a girl who was attacked by 3 men as they tried to rape her, her Couzine came out with a knife and stabbed one of the men and killed him, the court later decided to hang her and let the men free, due to the fact that there were not enough MALE Witnesses ( thanks to sharia ) , So I do belive what you say Cyrus, However I would like to see more Persians speak out against it, or maybie they are shut out from Secret police or somthing, I dont know the story, maybie the media dosent focus on these people who want to have their librities, because I am well aware of the Islamic Revolution that Basterdized Persia, for now I have a very bad image of Iran from what I have seen.  

20 Feb 2006 @ 22:49 by serebo @ : Cyrus
Voice number 2 is stronger in number than voice number 1. However, voice number 1 controls the parliament, the executif and judicial branches of government, and the media. Voice number 2 is fed up with the regime, but too disillusioned and in dispair to muster a rebellion, especially after the reformers failed to improve their lives. Voice number 2 is the silent majority, silenced by the current president, who is trying to divert hatred for the regime towards a matter of national pride (nuclear technology). Voice number 2 is the future and shall ultimately prevail, when all those Mullah skeletons die off. At least, let us hope. - Thats what I mean, the good people are shut out, and the mullahs and the clerics Controll everything  

20 Feb 2006 @ 22:51 by Cyrus @ : Our existence a blade away
Even though we vilify other religions and creeds, it is interesting to note that had history not occurred precisely the way it has, none, and I mean none of us would be here today blogging. I have often vilified Alexander the Great for defeating the Persian Empire. Well, at the first battle between Darius III and Alexander, Alexander was nearly killed. A Greek mercenary in the Persian Army was about to deliver a decisive blow to Alexander's head, nearly making him a not-so-great. Alexander was saved by the blade of one of his soldier-friends (and one of his lovers)in the nick of time. In less than a second, not only did history take one course and not another, but my existence, and I am sure, that of the whole world population today was decided. It is really scary, when you realize that you were a blade away from not being born at all. So had the Moors not invaded Spain or Charles Martel not stopped the Muslims at Poitier, none of you Europeans or Muslims would even be here to voice your support or your outrage over these cartoons. Sometimes, life is really that simple.  

20 Feb 2006 @ 23:06 by Wtf Dude CHill out @ : Wow
Alexander was saved by the blade of one of his soldier-friends (and one of his lovers)in the nick of time. In less than a second, not only did history take one course and not another, but my existence, and I am sure, that of the whole world population today was decided. It is really scary, when you realize that you were a blade away from not being born at all. So had the Moors not invaded Spain or Charles Martel not stopped the Muslims at Poitier, none of you Europeans or Muslims would even be here to voice your support or your outrage over these cartoons. Sometimes, life is really that simple.

Thats pretty incredible heavy stuff man. you make some damn good points.  

20 Feb 2006 @ 23:08 by serebo @ : Yeap
Our existence a blade away, I really enjoyed reading your post cyrus you should have that posted on the News paper, good stuff.  

20 Feb 2006 @ 23:48 by vibrani : Another time
we thought like this was when JFK was assassinated. What if he wasn't? Where would the world be today? Would we have the Vietnam war go on for a decade longer? I'm sure it would have been very different.  

20 Feb 2006 @ 23:49 by vibrani : Another time
we thought like this was when JFK was assassinated. What if he wasn't? Where would the world be today? Would we have the Vietnam war, and would it go on for more than a decade? I'm sure it would have been very different.  

21 Feb 2006 @ 00:22 by Cyrus @ : What if?
I recommend the book: "What if?". It is an interesting book, in which historians try and reimagine what the world would be like if historical events had occurred differently. Of course, they failed to notice that they probably wouldn't be writing their opinions in the book had the events actually occurred differently. And therefore, we would not even have a book. HaHa!!  

21 Feb 2006 @ 01:13 by vibrani : LOL
thanks for the recommendation, Cyrus.  

21 Feb 2006 @ 02:36 by vibrani : A new cartoon
Non-Sequitur - by Wiley  

21 Feb 2006 @ 02:43 by Cyrus @ : Taking From Peter to Pay Paul

Based on a good idea by Wtf Dude CHill out.

It would be like taking from Peter to pay Paul. Let's borrow the flags and other goods from the Danish. We can then sell it to all those fools for twice the price and watch in glee as they burn the flags and trash the goods, effectively burning their own money and trashing their own livelihoods. Then we can sell them even more stuff, which they will certainly buy and burn more. We would become millionaires in days, and then we would give some money back to the Danish = Taking from Peter to pay Paul. Of course Peter (fanatic protesters) gets screwed in the equation, but who cares?? At least everyone has FUN: we make money, the Danish make money, and the fanatics get to burn their money away. Spoken like a true capatalist!  

21 Feb 2006 @ 05:06 by Cyrus @ : Correction: Capitalist

21 Feb 2006 @ 12:09 by reha @ : what if by Cyrus
I always had a question in my mind just like the book you recommended named what if . What if we (Turks ) had followed a track above the Caspatian see( What we call Hazar see ) on our way to Anatolia and had not met the arabs and accepted their religion but say were in contact with the Christians first,the world could have been very different today. Nobody could have stopped the crusades and islam would not have been so spread today even in the middle east or maybe would not exist !
And what is so interesting is that the Arabs united with the English and fought against us in the first occasion they had the chance. They don't consider us as muslims since we are secular , we can drink , speak , and we have a normal western life style. So we got stuck in a strange position in the middle of nowhere considered as devils the fundamentalist muslims, but muslims ( hence not christian) acc. to the west.

I also have hopes like Cyrus that Iran can be the first candidate to follow us and get rid of the great pressure of the mullahs somehow and set up a secular modern system. They did it once for the shah, why not for a second time. They are very different than the other muslim countries. I was impressed with their technology, manufacturing capabilities , hard working characters etc during my business trip in 1992. They have been living under a great embargo of almost all high technology equipment since decades they can still produce almost everthing ( cars, fridges ,tv s etc ). Most of our production here is under the control of western countries.

I have my all best wishes and hopes for Iran to manage such a revolution.  

21 Feb 2006 @ 12:20 by abdelmjid @ : mohammad
mohammed is in our blood and more than our selves we defand him till death  

21 Feb 2006 @ 12:48 by vibrani : code problems

21 Feb 2006 @ 12:50 by vibrani : *
errors on coding.  

21 Feb 2006 @ 12:50 by vibrani : Ha!
Iran is sponsoring Hamas. Birds of a feather, you know. The west better do something soon because these lunatics will wreck more havoc....

And good for you abdelmjid - heard from Mo lately giving you thanks for sacrificing your life for him? Not living for yourself, not thinking for yourself, another successful brainwash story.  

21 Feb 2006 @ 13:27 by reha @ : Question to vıbrani
Vibrani your historical knowledge about Persia seems to be very good.May I ask yo what happened to the Persian Empire at the end and when and how were they converted into the country called Iran ? Our history knowledge about them is limited to our war at Chaldiran and the treaty of Kasr-i Sirin which determined our oldest borders since more than 450 years I think. We don't know what happened to them afterwards.  

21 Feb 2006 @ 13:53 by vibrani : Reha
Thanks but I'm no expert in the history of Persia. 1935 - Iran is adopted as the country's official name instead of Persia. You might find these sites have some answers for you: {}

21 Feb 2006 @ 19:08 by Cyrus @ : From Persia to Iran
The name Persia derives from the southern province of Pars, where indo-european tribes invading the plateau settled. Another group settled in the North and called themselves the Medes. The Medes are often considered the ancestors of the modern day Kurds and Northwestern Iranians. Persians often referred themselves as Iranians, hence the change in name in 1935. Iran means "country of the Ayrans", as "Iran" is derived from the word "Aryan". However, it should be noted that the term "Aryan" used in Iran and India (and abusively used by the Nazis) refers to social status, "Aryan" meaning literally "Noble" or "Of Noble Lineage", and therefore used mostly by the Kings to designate their royal descent.  

21 Feb 2006 @ 19:57 by mishka @ : to cyrus
enough already about iran. its getting borring. cyrus you are trying hard to show some positive side of iran but i still see non. they are the bigest exporters of terrorism in the world! why dont you talk about that?!  

21 Feb 2006 @ 20:31 by reha @ : to mishka
Our country is a democracy and we have complete freedom of speech. Therefore you( and no one else) cannot tell me to shut up. We have not burnt any place but just made demonstrations because it is totally free and no force can forbid demonstrations here. We are not responsible from the other countries since we don't rule these countries.

About your suggestion for Saddam to rule our country , I would say again we have total democracy he can of course set up a party and join the elections . I doubt though if anybody else except himself would vote for that party. All of the extremist parties ( religious, communist, fasist, racist, etc) were only able to get negligible votes during our 60 years of history of elections with multy parties. ( whereas racist parties still get very high votes in Western Europe even today!!!)

Yes we did live in harmony with christians(mainly Greek and Armenians) and jews for 1000 years. But things have changed badly during the WW1 since they joined the war on the other side and fought against us and unfortunate events happened and they left the country . We were unfortunately not awarded for our endless tolerence of 1000 years.On the contrary it caused our empire to collapse and our relation with the christian minority( They were adding up to 3 million out of total 20 milllion )at the beginning of the century to become very bad. We are trying very hard to repair our relations with Greeks and Armenians and discussions are being carried on at different levels. I hope to resolve all our problems and start again to live in total harmony with them even if not in the same state any more. But we still are neighbors and need to understand each other clearly.

I hope to have answered your questions in mind.  

21 Feb 2006 @ 23:46 by mishka @ : to reha
again you are talking big nons! your empire was a very brutal one, especaly with the arabs. the kurds in your country are suffering from huge racism till today. and your country is responsible for the armenians holocoust. so really what are you talking about?!  

21 Feb 2006 @ 23:50 by Cyrus @ : Mishka
My previous post on Iran was in answer to Reha's questions. Of course, support for terrorism comes in the form of money. Sorry to say, but 90% of Iranians are too poor to support anything but themselves. In this case, the money comes from the government. If you must generalize and assume that the dirty fanatics shown to you by the media represent all Iranians, that is your choice. Of course, in that line of logic, you cannot complain if these fanatics start hating the entire Danish population, just because a FEW Danish journalists "offended" them. I guess GENERALIZATION is one of mankind's many demons and one reason that is fueling the senseless violence over these cartoons.  

22 Feb 2006 @ 14:57 by mishka @ : to cyrus
but if a government support terrorism then the all country should be held responsible. surely we cant take into acount each and every person in iran.and i am sick and tired to hear its only few islamist that are responsible for terrorism. i believe its the other way round! GENERALIZATION IN THIS CASE IS RIGHT.  

22 Feb 2006 @ 17:22 by mishka @ : to cyrus
and cyrus not generalzing muslims in the west is the biggest weapon for the muslims, who hide behind terrorists. thats why they are winning and you know that. but that wont stand for long. things are changing.  

22 Feb 2006 @ 17:33 by New York @ : Mohammed blows goats
I heard when Mohammed was alive he used to have sex with the animals.  

22 Feb 2006 @ 17:42 by New Jersey @ : Mohammed Blows Goats
I heard the same thing too...except I belief he used to be on the receiving end...meaning the animals would fuck him in his ass. He used to prophitize the sheeps ball's coming all over his face.  

22 Feb 2006 @ 18:55 by Cyrus @ : Mishka, Generalization goes both ways
"and cyrus not generalzing muslims in the west is the biggest weapon for the muslims, who hide behind terrorists. thats why they are winning and you know that. but that wont stand for long. things are changing."

In this case, I guess what you are saying is that muslims want to convert everyone to Islam. That may be true.

"but if a government support terrorism then the all country should be held responsible."

Here is where I don't agree, simply because I have seen for myself that the government is oppressing the people. Therefore, the people don't have what it takes to topple the regime. And by the same token, do you believe WE AMERICANS should be personally held responsible for the prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib or Gitmo, or whenever soldiers accidently kill an innocent person?? I don't think I am ready to accept responsibility; maybe you are. Nonetheless, the argument is the same from both sides:

1. The fanatics generalize and believe that all Americans, Danish, French should pay for the Danish cartoons and that all Americans think the same way as George W. and the neo-cons (50% of Americans apparently don't).

2. You generalize and assume that the people should be held responsible if their governement (most of the time a dictatorship undemocratically elected; the Supreme Leader in Iran who controls everything is "elected by God")supports this or that.

Last and not least, I am assuming that you are saying that George W. is a LIAR, since in his State of The Union Speech, he said that the people of Iran were held "hostage" by their government, which is very true. I am not posting messages about how things are in other countries, since I am not qualified to do so. My arguments are relative only to Iran.  

22 Feb 2006 @ 20:41 by mishka @ : to cyrus
why must i care for the innocent iranians at all. i should care for the westeners who are innocent and who fall victim to the terrorists. at the moment the western governments are caring more for tne innocent muslims then their own countrymen.and thats wrong and must be changed!!! muslims are blaming the west for everything in any case, so your argument doesnt make a different!  

22 Feb 2006 @ 21:20 by Cyrus @ : Mastercard
To all Muslim Fanatics, this is an ad for your New Platinum Mastercard:

- Newspaper showing twelve cartoons intended to make people laugh, that you should read before wasting everyone's time rioting: $2.00 on debit-mastercard

- Danish flag for burning purposes: $1.50 on debit-mastercard

- A pinata depicting your "enemies", generally in the form of some Western Politician: $20 on debit-mastercard

- A semi-automatic with bullets that you can shoot in the air to prove that you are all macho and that the world should fear you (when you really look like a bunch of fools): $300 on debit-mastercard

- Watching you idiots waste your money in order to burn flags and go ape-shit protesting over drawings like little children: PRICELESS  

22 Feb 2006 @ 21:49 by Cyrus @ : To Mishka
"why must i care for the innocent iranians at all. i should care for the westeners who are innocent and who fall victim to the terrorists. at the moment the western governments are caring more for tne innocent muslims then their own countrymen.and thats wrong and must be changed!!! muslims are blaming the west for everything in any case, so your argument doesnt make a different! "

I can't argue with that. And you have highlighted my point: we should not care at all about the Iranians, and therefore not make assumptions that they are all fanatical muslims. Let's just leave the case open and see for ourselves what happens. Chances are, the world will be surprised when the population gets so fed up that they kill all the Mullahs; reminds me of a Persian movie, where the driver of a taxi was trying to run down a Mullah in the street!! HaHa.  

22 Feb 2006 @ 22:02 by mishka @ : to cyrus
yes lets wait and see. and cyrus you are one passionate sensitive intellectual hell of a guy!  

22 Feb 2006 @ 23:09 by a dane @ : TO REHA
Reha wrote:
( whereas racist parties still get very high votes in Western Europe even today!!!)
This has nothing to do with racism! If you Muslims coming to the west can’t accept the way we live here stay where you are. The problems with you Muslims is that when you come to the west you don’t integrate in our society you live in a parallel world to ours, you try to change our laws to fit with your understanding on how things should be. Very strange when everybody can see how it is in the Muslim world – a shithole. They can’t get a job here cause most of them can’t speak the language (free schools just for that, but they don’t go there) they don’t have any education and when they do get a job they are always late coming to work, the majority of crime is done by Muslims here, I could go on and on. The taxpayers here pay social benefits to many –many of these people (billions of dollars every year). Face it, you just don’t fit in here, we are light-years apart. You Muslims always ask for respect, respect for what I ask? Maybe if you start to get order in your own house instead of living in a dump. I have been in Turkey; rented a car and only a few miles from the city it is a dump, and it is the same in most of the other Muslim countries, why do you think it is like that? (Our fault off course) But I guess the problem with you Muslims is that you can’t agree on anything at all, except from bee angry with us. And who really cares about what happen there for 1000 years ago, you live in a time warp.  

22 Feb 2006 @ 23:38 by mishka @ : by a dane to reha
i couldnt agree more! well put!  

23 Feb 2006 @ 00:46 by Woodbutcher @ : Muslims
I think the Muslims leave the Middle East for one of two reasons:
1. To get away from the backwards way they lived there and save their own lives from the fanatics.
2. To spread their misery to the rest of the world.
They claim to be a "peace loving" religion and it sure shows!
They hate the western world, the Jews and each other. They shed more blood in the name of God than the Irish Protestant/Catholic skirmish.
What kind of religion preaches suicide and murder. I think there is some Satanic meaning in the Verses of the Koran or Qur'an or it's been implied there by the lunatic leaders who preach it.
If killing infidels is so great, why don't more of the Muslim leaders teach it by example instead of telling their followers to do it?  

23 Feb 2006 @ 01:12 by a dane @ : The Muslim community is a stalled car
The Muslim Ummah (community) is a stalled car.
Sadly, this is our current state. At the most, we are idling on the shoulder of the road, and even that is a generous description. It seems we have forgotten the glorious early days of Islam when the proverbial Muslim engine was running at maximum efficiency. Not a single dedicated Muslim remained idle. They used all available means to establish Islam and keep the momentum going.
But today, we remain in the stalled car that is our Ummah and wonder what can be done. After awhile, we notice four very distinct groups of people begin to emerge. The first group is inspecting the car and trying to fix whatever went wrong. The second is asleep inside the car. The third bunch is standing off to the side watching, but doing nothing more. Finally, we have the fourth group which is trying to ensure that the car remains broken. Clearly, these groups each need help if the car is ever to move again.
What can we Muslims do?
The members of the first group have the right attitude, but they need better coordination. Progress will not be made if one person is trying to fix the engine while another is attempting to push the car along. Before they can begin to fix the car, they must first determine what is wrong. After discovering the problem, they must agree on a plan of action. Once an agreement is reached, their individual forces can combine positively instead of cancelling each other out.
The second group, the sleepers, are a burden and must be roused. Once awake, they must be informed of the problem and made to realize its gravity. Then they need to be told what they can do to ameliorate the situation.
The fourth group (hindering the effort) cannot be dealt with as easily as the first two. When a group such as this is actively trying to undo the hard work of others or shouting unconstructive criticism, a number of factors need to be taken into consideration. First of all, do not expect to change their minds quickly and easily, or even at all. Often times, it is like arguing with a donkey - you waste your breath and annoy the donkey! Gentle education is preferable and nasiha (advice) is a duty of one Muslim to another, but if they persist in hindering your progress, do not allow them to distract you from your task. Your energies are required elsewhere.
It is also necessary to be cautious with the fourth group. Watch out, they may try to push the car in the opposite direction, setting everyone even further back than initially. But even if they do that, remember to deal with them Islamically, for if they are dealt with harshly, it will only cause fitna and confusion among all the groups and you will go nowhere fast. The overall process is a jihad of sorts.
Ironically, it is the third group (standing and watching) which is the most complex and problematic. You must first determine why they are standing by. Are they lazy? Do they think the car cannot be fixed, or do they not trust those who are trying to fix the car? Maybe they think the car is not necessary to reach their destination. These are all very serious concerns. Unfortunately, it seems the bulk of the Ummah falls into this group. There is no quick remedy for the third group. But bear in mind that a small spark in the engine may be what these people need, either as a warning that if something is not done, their entire journey will go up in smoke (literally) or that there is hope that the vehicle can be fixed.
Others among the group of idlers simply lack confidence in their ability to contribute. If this is the case, a gentle nudge (occasionally, an outright shove, done nicely) in the right direction may be the much needed catalyst. This step must be followed by education and training, which will, inshaa'Allah give them faith in themselves and others, as well as a solid foundation on which to operate.
They must also learn that they should not waste time waiting around for a tow truck or a mechanic. Maybe all the car needs is a good push. If nothing else, they can hand tools to the workers. The fact is that a really good mechanic might not show up for a very long time and the people in the car must make do with each other.
We are at a stage where not a single Muslim can be wasted. Every hand must contribute, in its own way, to restarting the Ummah. This may involve small sacrifices of doing what is *needed* rather than what we want individually. We need to hone our skills, yet be diverse enough in our abilities to perform a variety of functions.
Every once in a while, we need a jump start, a rejuvenation of our iman which will enable us to feel the spirit of Islam coursing through us. We also need spiritual nourishment (filling ourselves with Qur'an, Sunnah, and other Islamic knowledge) on a regular basis, as well as the occasional tune-up to ensure that we are functioning the way a strong Ummah should.
This ongoing metaphor makes me wonder which group each of us falls into. Are we eager to help but lack direction and coordination? Are we in a state of dormancy? Perhaps we are quiet observers who wait, in vain, for a tow truck to lift us into action. I sincerely hope none of us is trying to destroy the hard work of others. Regardless of which group we identify with, we are crippling the Ummah and will continue to be a liability until we get our act together.
May Allah (swt) guide us all to aid in the mobilization of our Ummah.
By Nusheen Ameenuddin  

23 Feb 2006 @ 05:09 by Wtf Dude CHill out @ : BULL SHIT THEY BLAME IT ON US
Destruction of holiest Shia shrine brings Iraq to the brink of civil war
By Patrick Cockburn
Published: 23 February 2006
Iraq took a lethal step closer to disintegration and civil war yesterday after a devastating attack on one of the country's holiest sites. The destruction of the golden-domed Shia shrine in Samarra sparked a round of bloody sectarian retaliation in which up to 60 Sunni mosques were attacked and scores of people were killed or injured.

The bomb attack has enraged the majority Shia population, who regard the shrine in the same way that Roman Catholics view St Peter's in Rome.

In a number of respects civil war in Iraq has already begun. Many of the thousand bodies a month arriving in the morgues in Baghdad are of people killed for sectarian reasons. It is no longer safe for members of the three main communities ­ the Sunni and Shia Arabs and the Kurds ­ to visit each other's parts of the country.

"Iraq is in a Weimar period like Germany in the 1920s which will either end with the country disintegrating or in an authoritarian government taking power," said Ghassan Atiyyah, an Iraqi political commentator.

The Golden Mosque in Samarra, north of Baghdad, was attacked at 6.55am yesterday when men dressed in police uniform tied up the guards and planted explosives. It was the third and most devastating attack on the Shia in Iraq in three days. A car bomb had killed 22 people in a Shia district of Baghdad late the previous night. The day before 12 died when a suicide bomber blew himself up in a bus in the Shia stronghold of Khadamiyah in west Baghdad.

"We should stand hand in hand to prevent the danger of civil war," warned President Jalal Talabani. "We are facing a major conspiracy that is targeting Iraq's unity." He called for the formation of a national unity government that "will bring stability to Iraq".

There was little sign of stability yesterday. Some 50 Sunni mosques were either burnt, blown up or taken over in Baghdad alone. At least three Sunni clerics were among 22 reported deaths nationwide.

Gunmen in police uniforms seized a dozen Sunni men suspected of being insurgents from a prison in the mainly Shia city of Basra yesterday and later killed 11 of them. Among those killed in the apparent reprisal attack for the bombing of the Samarra shrine were two Egyptians.

Armed militiamen of the Mehdi Army supporting the radical nationalist clergyman Muqtada al-Sadr took up positions on the streets of Baghdad and in the Shia cities of the south yesterday. Mr Al-Sadr himself is returning quickly to Iraq after cancelling a meeting with the Lebanese President. One of his aides said: "If the Iraqi government does not do its job to defend the Iraqi people, we are ready to do so." A Sunni politician, Tariq al-Hashimi, urged clerics and politicians to calm the situation " before it spins out of control".

As news spread of sectarian clashes and demonstrations people in Baghdad rushed home before dark and some started to stock up on food. In Najaf, another Shia holy city, protesters chanted: "Rise up Shia! Take revenge! "

The destruction of the Golden Mosque will be an immense psychological blow to Iraqi Shia who have endured so much down the centuries. The shrine contains the tombs of the 10th and 11th imams, Ali al-Hadi who died AD868 and his son Hassan Ali al-Askari who died AD874. His son, the last of the 12 Shia imams, Mohammed al-Mahdi, disappeared and is known as the "hidden imam". Shias believe he is still alive and will bring justice to humanity.

The shrine is very difficult to defend. The majority of people in Samarra are Sunni and in 2004 the city was taken by Islamic extremists before being recaptured by the Americans. Although I was searched the last time I visited the mosque, it has large gateways through the outer wall into an inner courtyard which armed men would find easy to storm. The shrine guards, who might detect a single bomber, were evidently not able to stop a unit of armed and determined men posing as police.

In one of the most serious acts of retaliation Shia protesters set fire yesterday to a famous Sunni shrine on the outskirts of Basra. It contains the tomb of Talha bin-Obeid-Allah, a companion of the Prophet Mohamed. The extent of the damage was not known.

Iraq has always been riven by sectarian divisions. Saddam Hussein's regime was primarily Sunni, though they are only 20 per cent of the population, while the Shia were politically marginalised. Friction between Shia and Sunni has increased since the US invasion as the Sunni resisted the occupation while the Shia demanded elections which they were bound to win because they are a majority of the population. If the Shia do hold power it will be the first time they have had their own state in the Arab world since the 12th century.

The parliamentary election on 15 December confirmed the Shia dominance, with their coalition winning 128 out of 275 seats. The vote was almost entirely along sectarian or ethnic lines.

The Shia clerical leader, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, called for a week of mourning, forbade attacks on Sunni mosques and asked people to protest peacefully. He made a rare appearance on television yesterday, being shown meeting in his house in Najaf three other grand ayatollahs to discuss the destruction of the mosque in Samarra. There was no audio but a statement from Ayatollah Sistani's office said: "We call upon believers to express their protest ... through peaceful means. The extent of their sorrow and shock should not drag them into taking actions that serve the enemies who have been working to lead Iraq into sectarian strife."

In the past his appeals for calm have been heeded, despite a long series of atrocities by suicide bombers against the Shia beginning in August 2003 which has left several thousand dead.

There are signs that the Shias' patience is now growing thin. Death squads targeting Sunni operate in Baghdad.

The prolonged negotiations to form a new government underlines the difficulty the Shia, Kurds and Sunni are having in reaching an accommodation which will hold Iraq together. The Kurds have always demanded a degree of autonomy under a federal system which would give them quasi-independence. Under the constitution supported in a referendum by Kurds and Shia last October, the nine Shia provinces of the south would also become a canton largely independent of Baghdad. One Iraqi minister laments that "the Iraqi government may end up as a collection of buildings in the Green Zone" .

Although the US and the Kurds are demanding a national unity government, Shia leaders suspect that this is a manoeuvre by the US to keep them out of power. Washington has long been worried that the outcome of its invasion and overthrow of Saddam would be a Shia-dominated Islamic republic closely linked to Iran. It is also concerned with the rise of Mr al-Sadr, always against the occupation, to the position of power broker in the Shia coalition.

There are signs of increasing anti-American feeling among the Shia as they see the Americans allying themselves with the Sunni. As news spread of the attack on the Golden Mosque yesterday, thousands of young men marched shouting anti-American slogans through Sadr City, the great Shia slum with a population of two million. About 3,000 people marched through the Shia city of Kut shouting slogans against America and Israel and burning US and Israeli flags.

The extent of Shia retaliation may also depend on the Iranian government. The Iranian supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, urged Shia not to seek revenge against Sunni Muslims, saying there were definite plots "to force the Shia to attack the mosques and other properties respected by the Sunni. Any measure to contribute to that direction is helping the enemies of Islam and is forbidden by sharia."

Instead Ayatollah Khamenei blamed the intelligence services of the US and Israel for being behind the bombs in Samarra.

Iraq took a lethal step closer to disintegration and civil war yesterday after a devastating attack on one of the country's holiest sites. The destruction of the golden-domed Shia shrine in Samarra sparked a round of bloody sectarian retaliation in which up to 60 Sunni mosques were attacked and scores of people were killed or injured.

The bomb attack has enraged the majority Shia population, who regard the shrine in the same way that Roman Catholics view St Peter's in Rome.

In a number of respects civil war in Iraq has already begun. Many of the thousand bodies a month arriving in the morgues in Baghdad are of people killed for sectarian reasons. It is no longer safe for members of the three main communities ­ the Sunni and Shia Arabs and the Kurds ­ to visit each other's parts of the country.

"Iraq is in a Weimar period like Germany in the 1920s which will either end with the country disintegrating or in an authoritarian government taking power," said Ghassan Atiyyah, an Iraqi political commentator.

The Golden Mosque in Samarra, north of Baghdad, was attacked at 6.55am yesterday when men dressed in police uniform tied up the guards and planted explosives. It was the third and most devastating attack on the Shia in Iraq in three days. A car bomb had killed 22 people in a Shia district of Baghdad late the previous night. The day before 12 died when a suicide bomber blew himself up in a bus in the Shia stronghold of Khadamiyah in west Baghdad.

"We should stand hand in hand to prevent the danger of civil war," warned President Jalal Talabani. "We are facing a major conspiracy that is targeting Iraq's unity." He called for the formation of a national unity government that "will bring stability to Iraq".

There was little sign of stability yesterday. Some 50 Sunni mosques were either burnt, blown up or taken over in Baghdad alone. At least three Sunni clerics were among 22 reported deaths nationwide.

Gunmen in police uniforms seized a dozen Sunni men suspected of being insurgents from a prison in the mainly Shia city of Basra yesterday and later killed 11 of them. Among those killed in the apparent reprisal attack for the bombing of the Samarra shrine were two Egyptians.

Armed militiamen of the Mehdi Army supporting the radical nationalist clergyman Muqtada al-Sadr took up positions on the streets of Baghdad and in the Shia cities of the south yesterday. Mr Al-Sadr himself is returning quickly to Iraq after cancelling a meeting with the Lebanese President. One of his aides said: "If the Iraqi government does not do its job to defend the Iraqi people, we are ready to do so." A Sunni politician, Tariq al-Hashimi, urged clerics and politicians to calm the situation " before it spins out of control".

As news spread of sectarian clashes and demonstrations people in Baghdad rushed home before dark and some started to stock up on food. In Najaf, another Shia holy city, protesters chanted: "Rise up Shia! Take revenge! "

The destruction of the Golden Mosque will be an immense psychological blow to Iraqi Shia who have endured so much down the centuries. The shrine contains the tombs of the 10th and 11th imams, Ali al-Hadi who died AD868 and his son Hassan Ali al-Askari who died AD874. His son, the last of the 12 Shia imams, Mohammed al-Mahdi, disappeared and is known as the "hidden imam". Shias believe he is still alive and will bring justice to humanity.

The shrine is very difficult to defend. The majority of people in Samarra are Sunni and in 2004 the city was taken by Islamic extremists before being recaptured by the Americans. Although I was searched the last time I visited the mosque, it has large gateways through the outer wall into an inner courtyard which armed men would find easy to storm. The shrine guards, who might detect a single bomber, were evidently not able to stop a unit of armed and determined men posing as police.

In one of the most serious acts of retaliation Shia protesters set fire yesterday to a famous Sunni shrine on the outskirts of Basra. It contains the tomb of Talha bin-Obeid-Allah, a companion of the Prophet Mohamed. The extent of the damage was not known.
Iraq has always been riven by sectarian divisions. Saddam Hussein's regime was primarily Sunni, though they are only 20 per cent of the population, while the Shia were politically marginalised. Friction between Shia and Sunni has increased since the US invasion as the Sunni resisted the occupation while the Shia demanded elections which they were bound to win because they are a majority of the population. If the Shia do hold power it will be the first time they have had their own state in the Arab world since the 12th century.

The parliamentary election on 15 December confirmed the Shia dominance, with their coalition winning 128 out of 275 seats. The vote was almost entirely along sectarian or ethnic lines.

The Shia clerical leader, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, called for a week of mourning, forbade attacks on Sunni mosques and asked people to protest peacefully. He made a rare appearance on television yesterday, being shown meeting in his house in Najaf three other grand ayatollahs to discuss the destruction of the mosque in Samarra. There was no audio but a statement from Ayatollah Sistani's office said: "We call upon believers to express their protest ... through peaceful means. The extent of their sorrow and shock should not drag them into taking actions that serve the enemies who have been working to lead Iraq into sectarian strife."

In the past his appeals for calm have been heeded, despite a long series of atrocities by suicide bombers against the Shia beginning in August 2003 which has left several thousand dead.

There are signs that the Shias' patience is now growing thin. Death squads targeting Sunni operate in Baghdad.

The prolonged negotiations to form a new government underlines the difficulty the Shia, Kurds and Sunni are having in reaching an accommodation which will hold Iraq together. The Kurds have always demanded a degree of autonomy under a federal system which would give them quasi-independence. Under the constitution supported in a referendum by Kurds and Shia last October, the nine Shia provinces of the south would also become a canton largely independent of Baghdad. One Iraqi minister laments that "the Iraqi government may end up as a collection of buildings in the Green Zone" .

Although the US and the Kurds are demanding a national unity government, Shia leaders suspect that this is a manoeuvre by the US to keep them out of power. Washington has long been worried that the outcome of its invasion and overthrow of Saddam would be a Shia-dominated Islamic republic closely linked to Iran. It is also concerned with the rise of Mr al-Sadr, always against the occupation, to the position of power broker in the Shia coalition.

There are signs of increasing anti-American feeling among the Shia as they see the Americans allying themselves with the Sunni. As news spread of the attack on the Golden Mosque yesterday, thousands of young men marched shouting anti-American slogans through Sadr City, the great Shia slum with a population of two million. About 3,000 people marched through the Shia city of Kut shouting slogans against America and Israel and burning US and Israeli flags.

The extent of Shia retaliation may also depend on the Iranian government. The Iranian supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, urged Shia not to seek revenge against Sunni Muslims, saying there were definite plots "to force the Shia to attack the mosques and other properties respected by the Sunni. Any measure to contribute to that direction is helping the enemies of Islam and is forbidden by sharia."

Instead Ayatollah Khamenei blamed the intelligence services of the US and Israel for being behind the bombs in Samarra.


23 Feb 2006 @ 05:23 by Wtf Dude CHill out @ : Great... Iraq for nothing...

23 Feb 2006 @ 05:51 by Cyrus @ : Mahdi is at the bottom of a well!!!!!
"The destruction of the Golden Mosque will be an immense psychological blow to Iraqi Shia who have endured so much down the centuries. The shrine contains the tombs of the 10th and 11th imams, Ali al-Hadi who died AD868 and his son Hassan Ali al-Askari who died AD874. His son, the last of the 12 Shia imams, Mohammed al-Mahdi, disappeared and is known as the "hidden imam". Shias believe he is still alive and will bring justice to humanity"

He isn't hidden at all. They actually believe he fell into a well 1,000 years ago and will rise up out of the well at the end of times to save the world! GIVE ME A BREAK!! If he fell into the well, he is dead by now. And if he has some supernatural way of sustaining himself, I am sure that he has drowned in his own crap by now; after all: where does 1,000 years of excrement go???  

23 Feb 2006 @ 07:04 by Wtf Dude Chill Out @ : Ohhhhh ohhh....
ROFL CYRUS!!!!!!!!!!! IT IS TRUE ROFL!!!!! LISTIN TO THIS, THE DESTRUCTION OF THIS SPECIFIC MOSQUE IS EQUIVILANT OF THE VATICAN BEING BOMBED To CATHOLICS, This is very very bad, I wonder whats going to happen next. Cyrus What do you think will happen if there is a civil war between the Sunnis and Shee-ites, Do you think The Americans will aid one side???


23 Feb 2006 @ 08:10 by Wtf Dude Chill Out @ : Nigerian Relegion Wars
Revenge attacks kill 20 Nigerian Muslims

Andrew Meldrum in Pretoria and Agencies in Lagos
Thursday February 23, 2006
The Guardian

At least 20 people were killed in revenge attacks on Muslims in Nigeria yesterday as religious riots intensified a day after the country's leading Anglican archbishop warned Muslims that they did not have a "monopoly on violence".
Christian mobs with machetes and guns roamed the streets of the mainly Christian city of Onitsha, in the south-east, in retaliation for Muslim violence in the north earlier this week which killed dozens of people, destroyed churches and left thousands homeless.

Article continues



Troops were powerless to resist the mobs. Revenge attacks were also reported in another south-eastern city, Enugu, where the Red Cross said at least seven people were killed and 150 injured. At least 73 people have been killed in the past five days.
The Christian retaliation came after a widely publicised statement by the powerful Anglican primate, Peter Akinola, who warned that community leaders may not be able to contain "restive youth".

"May we at this stage remind our Muslim brothers that they do not have the monopoly on violence in this nation," he said.

He said the Muslim riots, which broke out at the weekend in response to the cartoons of the prophet Muhammad that have generated fury across the Muslim world, were part of a plot to make Nigeria an Islamic country.

"It is no longer a hidden fact that a long-standing agenda to make this Nigeria an Islamic nation is being surreptitiously pursued," he said.

Mr Akinola is also known for his opposition to allowing gays to be priests in the Anglican church. He could not be reached for comment on the outbreak of the violence in Onitsha.

The violence erupted on Saturday in the northern city of Maiduguri. Thirty Christian churches were razed and 18 people were killed, mostly Christians. There was also violence on Monday and Tuesday in the northern city of Bauchi, where witnesses and Red Cross officials said 25 people were killed when Muslim mobs attacked Christians. Bauchi was tense but calm yesterday as police and soldiers patrolled the city. But the focus quickly turned to Onitsha where retaliation flared.

"There are thousands of boys with cutlasses and sticks on the rampage," said George Esiri, a Reuters photographer. "I've counted at least 20 bodies here by the Onitsha bridge."

He said the dead were Hausas. "Some of them are burnt and some have their stomachs cut open," he said.

Mr Akinola blamed "influential Muslims" for supporting the religious extremists behind the attacks.

Nigeria is roughly divided between the mainly Muslim north and the Christian south. Thousands of people have died in religious violence since 2000.  

23 Feb 2006 @ 08:13 by Wtf Dude Chill Out @ : Yea yea yea.....
LONDON, February 23 (IranMania) - Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei ordered seven days of national mourning in Shiite-led Iran Wednesday after a bomb attack on one of Shiite Islam's holiest shrines in neighbouring Iraq, AFP reported.

Khamenei pointed the finger at Washington over the bombing but called on Iraq's newly empowered Shiite majority not to resort to revenge attacks against the ousted Sunni Arab elite.

"This is a political crime, which must be tracked back to the intelligence services of the 'Zionists' and the occupiers of Iraq," the Iranian media quoted Khamenei as saying, AFP added.

He called on Iraqi Shiites to avoid attacking Sunni mosques in order not to "help the enemies of Islam".

The bombing of the Imam Ali al-Hadi mausoleum in the town of Samarra north of Baghdad sparked a spate of revenge attacks in the Iraqi capital in which six Sunni civilians were killed and 27 Sunni mosques assaulted.  

23 Feb 2006 @ 13:00 by abbas @ : bad
you are all dankeys!!!discussion about religion and war about that;is a topic

for thousands decays ago.
Energy hasteye haghe mosalame mast.
IRANI HASSTAM KHOSHHALam,bidaram;az har fekri bizarammmm  

23 Feb 2006 @ 18:13 by mishka @ : to anyone
can somebody tell me who killed the jewish boy in france. who could do such a savage thing!? absoulutly barbaric!!!!! PLEASE REPLY  

23 Feb 2006 @ 18:30 by vibrani : Mishka
Ivory Coast police have arrested a suspect in the brutal torture and slaying of a young Jewish man in France, the French premier said Thursday.

The man, identified as Youssouf F., could be returned to France within hours, Dominique de Villepin said on Canal Plus TV, adding that French and Ivory Coast police cooperated in the arrest.

However, Abidjan state prosecutor Raymond Tchimou expressed reserve about how quickly Fofana could be returned to France. The extradition process is complicated and Fofana could be returned "this week," Tchimou was quoted as saying in an interview published Thursday in French daily Le Monde.

In an incident that has dominated headlines across the country, Ilan Halimi, 23, was lured by a woman on January 21 away from the store where he sold mobile phones, abducted and then held in a suburban housing project for three weeks by a criminal gang, where he was repeatedly tortured, according to French officials.

He was then dumped, barely alive and reportedly with burn marks all over his body, at a suburban train station on Monday, February 13. Halimi died while being driven to a hospital.

Until this week, detectives investigating the case said they were not linking it to anti-Semitism.

But in a turnaround, Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin told a Jewish communal gathering Monday night that officials had decided to treat the case as an act of anti-Semitism.

De Villepin said the minister of justice had ordered that Halimi's torture and murder be considered "premeditated murder motivated by religious affiliation." Villepin spoke at the annual dinner of the Representative Council of Jewish Institutions in France, or CRIF, the umbrella organization of secular French Jewish groups. In addition to pledging that the government would do its utmost to find Halimi's killers, de Villepin vowed that the French government would fight anti-Semitism throughout French society.

President Jacques Chirac will attend a memorial Thursday evening for the young man, Ilan Halimi, a 23-year-old mobile phone salesman. He was kidnapped Jan. 21 and tortured in the southern Paris suburb of Bagneux.

French officials believe anti-Semitism may have played a role in the killing. Halimi was kidnapped after a meeting with a young woman. His family later received a series of ransom demands -starting with one for around US$537,000.

Villepin will join Chirac at the ceremony at Paris' main synagogue.

On Monday, French authorities found Halimi naked, handcuffed and covered with burn marks near railroad tracks south of Paris. He died on his way to a hospital.

About a dozen people have been arrested in the case.  

23 Feb 2006 @ 19:14 by Amon Shaitaan @ : Shocked ..
i was raised a muslim in jordan untill i had the chance to become more spiritual than religious for those kind of reasons .. drawing a pic of the prophet at the highest level of racisim against almost a third of the world (that is muslim) based on an ignorant terrorist group like taliban or al qaeda..i mean no wonder the muslims are raging against this act because most muslims are denying the fact of al qaeda or what it does .. most muslims call out for peace and love ..although middle eastern muslims in pakistan and afghanistan call for death and domination to usa and israel , they had to use religious ways to convince people that they have to fight for the cause of allah .. just like how america is fighting for the cause of god and how israel is fighting for the cause of moses and abraham .. its better drawing an image of Sharoon being a pig or a nazi because its obvious that that mother fucker is causing more innoscent death than anyone .. i'm an Athiest or u could say a Muslim Athiest .. i could hardly give a shit what happends but i think if the dennish were smart they would have at least published a more preservitive photo .. they made it waay too obvious with the bomb insted of the turbaan and i dont blame muslims raging .. finally i think who ever drawed those images and all the other follow-ups are people that are just drawing their thoughts on a paper.. i see them practicing their right of speech at its highest levels .. yet their stuid becuse they created hatred against them from almost the third of the world ..what will happend next might not be too fuuny !!  

23 Feb 2006 @ 20:27 by Kyle @ : Golden Mosque
Regarding the destruction of the Golden mosque in Iraq, where was the outrage amongst Muslims when the Taliban destroyed Buddist statues in Afghanistan?  

23 Feb 2006 @ 20:46 by mishka @ : to vibrani
thank you very much for your report. isnt youssouf a muslim name?  

23 Feb 2006 @ 21:00 by mishka @ : TO AMON SHAITAAN
you might be an athiest but you also have inferiority complex big time. and please dont forget that 2 third of the other world isnt muslim and dont really liking muslims 2!so yes what is going to happen isnt funny for the muslims!  

23 Feb 2006 @ 21:08 by vibrani : Miskha
It could be a Muslim is a common Muslim name.  

23 Feb 2006 @ 23:13 by Wtf Dude Chill Out @ : AWAOTKZXMczxlkcxzm,dsalkda
all i wanna know is, If Iraq has a civil war, what will be of our troops? go look on the news it has gotten worse.  

23 Feb 2006 @ 23:15 by Ming the strangely merciful @ : Men in beards
As far as I am concerned a lot of strife, misery and human suffering have been caused by all religions. What do a lot of theses religious types have in common? funny beards. I think there is a world conspiracy of hirsute men... beware the bearded ones!  

24 Feb 2006 @ 02:52 by Wtf Dude Chill Out @ : yeah yeah
yea, good point Ming the strangely mercifull, But Islam is In the spot light right now for holding a world record of Atrocites.  

24 Feb 2006 @ 06:57 by johhnyboy @ : funy
ur post was funny. however, i don't think bodycount is the point, despite your erroneous information.  

24 Feb 2006 @ 08:10 by Wtf Dude Chill Out @ : jewish guy Killed by Muslim radicals
Torture death of Parisian Jew raises fears of anti-Semitism
Last Updated Thu, 23 Feb 2006 18:45:44 EST
CBC News
Thousands of people gathered in one of Paris's largest synagogues Thursday night to mourn the death of a 23-year-old Parisian Jew whose murder has raised concerns about anti-Semitism in France.

French President Jacques Chirac was among those paying tribute to Ilan Halimi, who was tortured to death in a Paris suburb on Feb. 13.

"Today, I ask all French citizens to all stand up as one man and shout loud and clear, `Enough is enough,' " France's grand rabbi, Joseph Sitruk, said at the service

Chirac and representatives from the country's other main religions sat inside the synagogue. A crowd also gathered in the street outside to show their solidarity with the dead man's family.

Police say a multi-ethnic gang kidnapped Halimi late January and held him hostage for three weeks, asking his family for ransom. Ten days ago, he was found naked, handcuffed and his body covered in burns near train tracks. He died on the way to the hospital.

Investigators are treating the case as a hate crime, believing Halimi was targeted because he was Jewish.

"This case is very serious, because it is the first time in 60 years that a person was killed because he was Jewish," Roger Cukierman, head of the Representative Council of French Jewish Institutions, told the Associated Press.

French police have detained 13 people. The suspected ringleader, Youssouf Fofana, was arrested Wednesday as a fugitive in the West African country of Ivory Coast and is being returned to France, the French and Ivorian governments said.

Suspects say they targeted a Jewish victim because they believed they could get a better ransom. Observers note that this association of Jews with money marks a resurgence of ancient anti-Semitic theories.

- I am really sad for what happend, what the fuck is wrong with the world today. No one deserves to be killed like that, Can somone tell me How to Post pictures on here???  

24 Feb 2006 @ 11:55 by vibrani : Wtf dude
To post pictures you need to have them on your own site - ftp'd. Then you type them in here like an url, a link to a page where your images are kept. Sometimes you need to put brackets around the url, depends on the page. The brackets are the curly ones using the shift key like this one that goes at the start {

What's wrong with the world? Ego, fear, greed, ignorance, separation from the real God, no compassion or empathy. There are people who support the dark, many of them believing that the dark is the light - they are totally backwards and unable to tell the difference. Don't fall for their crap! That is their trap and they want YOU to be emotionally affected and thereby drawn into their agenda. Beings of light are targets for them. You can tell those who attack and try to bring down truth, the people who speak truth. Unfortunately, one can't see their eyes on the internet to know that they're lifeless, but you can feel their energies. These are people you've seen in this log, trapped by their religious dogma trying to control your soul, your thoughts and beliefs. They're also scared shitless because they know they have no power over those truly of the light. So it becomes a stronger and stronger battle between the darkness and the light. Notice how many of the dark have fled once the light was shone.  

24 Feb 2006 @ 18:34 by Cyrus @ : to Wtf Dude Chill Out / THE MAHDI
Yesterday, while having dinner with an Ethiopian friend in a very good Ethiopian restaurant, I came across an explanation as to why people believe the "Mahdi" is hidden in a well. It's actually really simple. I think that some extremist told a passerby that the "Mahdi" was at the bottom of the well. The curious passerby must have gone to the well and said something like," Hello? Is somebody there??" To which he got a startling reply, " Hello? Is somebody there??", therefore incorrectly assuming that the ECHO was "Mahdi" answering back! And thereafter, from hearsay, it became known that the "savior" is at the bottom of the well and will rise from it one day to save all our deprived little asses! HAHAHA!  

24 Feb 2006 @ 19:37 by Cyrus @ : An interesting quote
Here is an interesting quote (loosely written, from what I remember) from the movie "Prophecy 3":

Archangel Gabriel (Christopher Walken):

"And in the end, the Word was everywhere and in all living things. It was in the stars, in the heavens, and in the human soul. IT WAS EVEN IN THE DARKEST PART OF THE HUMAN SOUL; IT IS THERE THAT IT SHINED THE BRIGHTEST AND, FOR A MOMENT, I WAS BLINDED BY IT."  

24 Feb 2006 @ 21:04 by vibrani : Oh don't fall for that one
It's a movie. The light doesn't shine the brightest in the darkest part in a human being. In fact, the light is forgotten there and it takes a monumental job to get a soul to remember they are of the Source. Those might, might, might be able to see light - but don't really understand what it is without help. Do you know the story of Lucifer, who thought he could be more powerful than God? His ego destroyed him - his darkness within, his forgetfulness.  

24 Feb 2006 @ 21:19 by Cyrus @ : Vibrani
Well I look at it a bit differently. I think the message is clear: there is good and bad in everyone. And the so-called "bad" people are just ignorant and lost. The Word is Love, and I guess the quote assumes it is within all, but it is hidden away due to ignorance and mostly FEAR. How deep it is hidden is what makes people different (so-called "good" or "bad" people). I don't like using the terminlogy "good" or "bad" so loosely as life is not black or white, but gray. Of course that is my interpretation. It just a very puzzling and therefore interesting quote, in my opinion. What do you think?

Here is another dialogue from "The Polar Express", yes the cartoon (near the end), " It doesn't matter what your train ticket says, the important thing is getting on". A good lesson about life in general. We should live life. And that can only happen when we let go of fear.  

24 Feb 2006 @ 21:40 by vibrani : I think
the important thing is one's personal wisdom, connection with the Source. There is no fear there - fear is the opposite of love. It is through that inner work that one gets a clearer understanding of how and why they have had certain illusions, made the choices they did, how to integrate one's self, how to understand free will and personal responsibility, etc. That is the same thing as being ignorant to a degree - because once you take responsibility for your free will and choices, and you're being honest, you are moving beyond ignorance and victimhood. I thought Polar Express was a BIG bunch of baloney, and it ripped off some things, like quotes, from other movies and books. Is seeing believing, or believing seeing? Old stuff. You dealt your own cards, you weren't just handed a random ticket. You are the conductor!

Look around you, cyrus, do you think most of the people are shining their lights the brightest? Or shining their darkness, so to speak?  

24 Feb 2006 @ 21:58 by MISHKA @ : TO CYRUS
sometimes there is black or white.just bec you cant define/measure evil it doesnt mean that it doesnt exist. doing bad feels bad. and only human can understand it. bec only humans can do good things or bad things intentionally. nature is not bad nor good its just nature. and animals are not good nor bad its just really only people can chose doing bad or good.  

24 Feb 2006 @ 23:57 by Cyrus @ : Vibrani / Mishka
The film was baloney, but I think that, that quote was rather interesting. I think the quote proves that one should take risks in life, such as questioning things we have been taught by others.

"Look around you, cyrus, do you think most of the people are shining their lights the brightest? Or shining their darkness, so to speak?"

People shine (or shed) their darkness, because of fear/insecurity itself. Fear of the unknown brings people to choose a way to explain the unknown in their own way. Once that has been done, humans desire their way to be THE WAY, in order to feel safe in their "way". When others do not agree with the "way", humans are compelled to prove that their "way" is right, fearing that if others don't agree, then their way could be wrong ("the more people believe it, the more true it is"). This brings people into defending their way through hatred and violence. Fear obviously leads away from love. In order to see one's inner-self as you say, I think we must let go of our fears first.  

25 Feb 2006 @ 00:28 by mishka @ : to cyrus
are you trying to say that muslim behave the way the behave bec of fear?  

25 Feb 2006 @ 01:09 by Cyrus @ : To Mishka
Deep down, yes. What would happen to these people if they found out that Muhammed wasn't a prophet for real (God tells them that after they die)??? I believe they would go crazy and beat themselves. Likewise, why are these people so passionate about Muhammed being insulted??; where does this devotion come from??
They have been brainwashed since childhood and told not to ask any questions or put anything into doubt. Because, if they doubt what they have believed in their whole life, they will get scared and become insecure about life itself. They will surely lose their footing and their vision of what life should be. Their inflexibility implies that they will kill you, if you suggest that what they believe in is wrong.  

25 Feb 2006 @ 09:20 by mishka @ : to cyrus
i think its about race and not religion. and besides you dont see jews going around and converting other people.and christians are fairly peaceful.  

25 Feb 2006 @ 10:07 by mishka @ : to cyrus
and why are you protecting the evil? are you evil yourself??? i been reading your last mail and it seems you are trying to say that darkness its part of light. i know that within every person there is good and bad. but you have the ability to choose. what you really are trying to say is that there is no good nor bad no dark nor light and that its all one and the same. you want us to accept and understand evil but its not gona happen!!!!!!  

25 Feb 2006 @ 22:34 by Cyrus @ : To Mishka
No, there is good and bad and dark and light. However, people choose to be bad or good to a certain extent. Fear itself leads people to do horrible things to others. Let us talk about the fear of dying or the concept of "survival of the fittest". Be sure that if there was an imminent threat to your life and that of 10 people around you, you would seek to survive first and foremost. That means you would instinctively fend for yourself, even if others needed your help. Why?? The fear of death and survival of the fittest, leads us to do such things, even though they are egoistic (and therefore "bad"). My point is only that, ultimately, fear leads to "evil", even though that may not be as self-evident in many cases. Of course good and evil are two sides of the same coin, the coin being the gray that defines this world.

"i think its about race and not religion. and besides you dont see jews going around and converting other people.and christians are fairly peaceful."

I don't quite understand your "race" argument. Of course Christians are peaceful NOW. Such was not the case when fanatical Christians were all over Europe or when they used the Inquistion to kill their enemies. And let us not forget the great Christian Hernan Cortez and the other Conquistadors when they obliterated South/Central American Indian Civilizations (Maya, Inca, Aztec, etc...). Any religion has the ability to succumb to fanaticism. And as far as race goes, their are many arabs who are Christians (Lebanese) or Jewish. And there are Persians, Indonesians, Turks, Philippinos that are Muslims, just as there are Persians who are Jewish, Catholic or Zoroastrian. So, I don't think that a specific race of people are more incline to get their "panties in a bunch".  

26 Feb 2006 @ 11:03 by mishka @ : to cyrus
well i am talking about christian europe and jews whereever they are, they are israelite. all i am trying to say is that if you arent advanced in your thinking, then you will be violent. and i am not takig here about 500 or 1000 years ago. how can you even bring that up!!!  

26 Feb 2006 @ 11:18 by mishka @ : to cyrus
and i dont think that muslims are more scared to die then other people. well unless you can prove it.  

26 Feb 2006 @ 22:16 by reha @ : answer to a dane
You only see what you want to see. I will give you some other points of view :

-The third generation in Germany adopted there so much that alot of them don't even speak Turkish. You cannot distinguish a great percentage of them from Germans . There are alot of companies there founded and run by Turks and employing a considerable number of Germans. Our contribution to German economy is vital and unavoidable now.
- The Turks in the USA are one of the most successfull community there. We have numerous scientists , doctors, researcists etc and they contribute a lot to the new developments in the world
- The Turkey that I( and almost all my friends , relatives etc)and a considerably high percentage of the population live has very high living standarts , very modern life style, everybody I know has a nice house, car , summer house etc and live much more modernly than a lot of countries worldwide.
- Everybody respects the beliefs of the other. We can easily sit together chat and drink raki with a very religious friend who does not drink alcohol because of religious beliefs.
- The restaurants, shopping malls, street cafes , international chains , etc have very high quality standarts just like most of our production and exports which is mainly to the west and reached 96 billion USD last year.Many of our companies had quality awards from EU.
- International manufacturers are extremely satisfied with the quality and profitability of their operations in Turkey. eg Ford Turkey had 3 times more profit than all the rest of Ford Europe
- We were the 16th economy of the world last year and aim to reach 13th place this year.

And we are all muslims!!!!!
Just a different vision for your info  

27 Feb 2006 @ 00:09 by a dane @ : to reha
A lot of crap!!! Maybe 1% in Turkey has that standard of living you talk about here, and remember, I went there last summer, drove around to see the country side (a shithole), sounds like you never been there!! Ford in Turkey has a high profit there because a worker there are paid shit. Who do you think you are fooling? Stay where you are muslims, and stay out of EU also...

more about "Torture in TURKEY"-"Human Rights News from"

Over and out from this board.  

27 Feb 2006 @ 11:59 by mishka @ : to reha
oh sure living in your dream world again reha. you can keep all your advances to yourselves.the christians and the jews can do without you. HAHAHAHAHAHA  

27 Feb 2006 @ 16:19 by reha @ : to dane and mishka
I am extremely lucky and happy to be born here in a country which is a heaven where we have alot of things that you cannot even dream of. May that be the reason for 25 million western people to spend their holidays here every year and 150000 Germans and ca 20000 English settled here after retirement.

I have been living here since 45 years and have seen a great part of it. I drove ca 750000 km here ! I also drove all throughout Europe and have seen almost everywhere there.

Only someone who does not have a job and has nothing to do here can bear to live in Europe, normal people cannot stay there. By the way I worked 5 years for Ford Otosan JV and the minimum wage of the workers there is ca 15000 USD/year net , that of a newly starting Engineer is ca 20-25000 USD/year which is quite good when you consider your living costs here.

Anyway I am very happy to be here with alot of sun, fun, friendship , wonderful sea,very high living standarts. You can do whatever you want there. I cannot resist to stay there more than max 2 weeks even when I have to and feel so happy everytime I return back home.  

27 Feb 2006 @ 16:45 by blessing @ : bless

27 Feb 2006 @ 19:36 by Cyrus @ : To Reha
"May that be the reason for 25 million western people to spend their holidays here every year and 150000 Germans and ca 20000 English settled here after retirement."

Actually, the majority go to Antalya, if I'm not mistaken. The south is really very nice, because most of it, is untouched nature. There are many, many Germans and Austrians that go to Antalya during the summer, and many Vacation Clubs bordering the Mediterranean Sea.  

27 Feb 2006 @ 20:04 by Cyrus @ : To Mishka
"oh sure living in your dream world again reha. you can keep all your advances to yourselves.the christians and the jews can do without you. HAHAHAHAHAHA"

Actually, the irony of it is that you wouldn't even be a Christian if it weren't for Reha's ancestors!!! The Byantium Emperor Constantine I the Great was the one who revived Christianity after apparently seeing a cross in the sky after a military victory. Before that, Christianity had disappeared as another "cult" from the old Roman times.

The invasions of the "barbaric" people of the east, the Arab invasion from the south and the wars against the Persian empire, led to the decadence of Roman civilization and to the "dark age" that lasted a few centuries. The obliteration of culture was such that, eventually, Europe had to re-learn its philosophy, science and mathematics from the Arabs.

Now that is IRONY.

Also see, " A History of Knowledge" by Piero Scaruffi at Though it does contain some errors and omissions, it is, nonetheless, an interesting site.  

27 Feb 2006 @ 21:35 by mishka @ : to cyrus
stop talking rubish!!! its the jews mostly ,and the english and datch and some other european people that invented everything. arabs didnt invent a thing for 500 hundred years now. stop talking nons.go back to persia if you are so proud of your culture.  

27 Feb 2006 @ 22:22 by Cyrus @ : To Mishka: For you Ignorance is Bliss
"stop talking rubish!!! its the jews mostly ,and the english and datch and some other european people that invented everything. arabs didnt invent a thing for 500 hundred years now. stop talking nons.go back to persia if you are so proud of your culture."

I am assuming you wanted to write "Dutch", though the Dutch have not invented a whole of stuff. If you want to hail European inventiveness, you should at least put the Greeks in your list. The Jews invented a few things, as did many, many peoples. The Egyptians, Persians, Chinese, Indians (from India) and Arabs also contributed massively to human knowledge in all fields.

It seems to me that you are either a kid or an adult with a kid's brain. I don't mean to insult you, but let's face it, your level of knowledge is extremely weak. I respect your posts and I'll answer them for the sake of trying to teach you something. However, I would suggest you avoid the last posting you made, unless you want people to make fun of you. Personnally, I think you should go and buy a history book unless you believe that Ignorance is Bliss. Know that Knowledge is Power.

P.S.: My last post never said that Arabs invented anything, though they have. At least pay me the respect of reading my posts thoroughly, before commenting on them. Just because you and I don't appreciate the Arabs or Muslims, doesn't mean that we should rewrite history.  

27 Feb 2006 @ 23:43 by Cyrus @ : To Mishka
"go back to persia if you are so proud of your culture"

This seems to be a constant (and frankly boring) theme in your posts. Of course, the problem is Persia doesn't exist anymore per verbatim. It is now called Iran. As far as pride is concerned, I don't really have any as far as culture is concerned; my point is that all cultures and civilizations have contributed to mankind in crucial ways. However, if I were to choose one civilization that was highly advanced (in ancient times), while the rest of the world lagged behind, I would choose the Chinese. It is mesmerizing that the Chinese before the Mongolian Invasions were so advanced. They actually had invented many things hundreds of years before anyone else. I have much more respect for their culture and scientific advancements at that time, than I do for the Persians' or Europeans'. I am gathering from your previous post, that you must Dutch, English and Jewish. Am I mistaken??  

28 Feb 2006 @ 09:34 by mishka @ : to cyrus
well i am not a kid nor dutch english or jewish. you are talking nons with all your long writing. the chinese are copying western civilizations and thats a fact. you are trying to rewrite history. but its not going to work. you cant fool us! i think you should go and live in china. but then again they will block this web site i am sure. so you wont be able to tell us how it is. get off your inferiority complex and face reality!!!!  

1 Mar 2006 @ 01:50 by Cyrus @ : To Mishka, the Christian Fanatic
"you are talking nons with all your long writing. the chinese are copying western civilizations and thats a fact."

Maybe nowadays. But Western Civilization has heavily borrowed from the Chinese and other civilizations. And if you don't believe me, go read a history book (something different from the bible!).

"you are trying to rewrite history. but its not going to work. you cant fool us! i think you should go and live in china. but then again they will block this web site i am sure. so you wont be able to tell us how it is. get off your inferiority complex and face reality!!!!"

I am not trying to rewrite anything. I have sources that are recognized by academic scholars. Just because you have a point of view that is totally and completely opposite to common knowledge (and it seems that you have NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT), doesn't mean I have an inferiority complex. I think you are the one who has the inferiority complex, since you seem to believe that Western Culture invented everything, while the rest of mankind sat there mulling over the future. Your Western Ethnocentricity is quite frankly repulsive and would make many Europeans (including myself) puke. So, you believe you are the center of the world??? This makes you no different than the fanatics that believe Islam is the only truth. And the worse part of it is that I (and others here, including vibrani) give you sources and arguments that point out how wrong you are and you continue repeating the same things. Have you been totally brainwashed or what?? You are just a hopeless case; that's really a shame.

"you cant fool us!"

I am not trying to fool anyone. You seem to believe that everyone is trying to fool you. Only real FOOLS believe that and stick to their beliefs, even when everyone is telling them that their wrong.

MISHKA, GROW UP!!!!!!!!!!!  

1 Mar 2006 @ 02:14 by vibrani : why do we give money to people who hate
Read to the end for full impact .. This is true!

Below are the actual voting records of various Arabic/Islamic/Hindu
States which are recorded in both the US State Department and United Nations records:

- Kuwait votes against the United States 67% of the time.
- Qatar votes against the United States 67% of the time.
- Morocco votes against the United States 70% of the time.
- United Arab Emirates votes against the U. S. 70% of the time.
- Jordan votes against the United States 71% of the time.
- Tunisia votes against the United States 71% of the time.
- Saudi Arabia votes against the United States 73% of the time
- Yemen votes against the United States 74% of the time.
- Algeria votes against the United States 74% of the time.
- Oman votes against the United States 74% of the time.
- Sudan votes against the United States 75% of the time.
- Pakistan votes against the United States 75% of the time.

- Libya votes against the United States 76% of the time.

- Egypt votes against the United States 79% of the time.
- Lebanon votes against the United States 80% of the time.
- India votes against the United States 81% of the time.
-Syria votes against the United States 84% of the time.
- Mauritania votes against the United States 87% of the time.

US Foreign Aid to those that hate us:

Egypt, for example, after voting 79% of the time against the
United States, Still receives $2 billion annually in US Foreign Aid.

Jordan votes 71% against the United States And receives
$192,814,000 annually in US Foreign Aid.

Pakistan votes 75% against the United States Receives
$6,721,000 annually in US Foreign Aid.

India votes 81% against the United States receives $143,699,000

Perhaps it is time to get out of the UN and give the tax savings back to the American workers who are having to skimp and sacrifice to pay the taxes!!

Pass it along. Everyone needs to know this. Might even mention it to your congressman who knows this anyway.... what a disgrace ... no wonder the world has no respect for us.  

1 Mar 2006 @ 11:21 by mishka @ : to cyrus
i still believe you have inferiority complex.  

1 Mar 2006 @ 19:00 by Cyrus @ : To Mishka
I still believe that you are a fool.

Where the hell do you live anyway??  

1 Mar 2006 @ 19:35 by Cyrus @ : To Vibrani on US Foreign Aid
Vibrani, is the US foreign aid so-called "free money" or is it (as I am assuming) interest-ridden? In this case it would seem that we are indebting other countries to make a profit or to make them dependent on us, I guess in the same way we are dependent on them (for raw goods and the amount of money the US government borrows from other countries as well). This undoubtedly is interesting since it helps spread the US dollar around the world, and therefore strengthen the US dollar. I know that the US invested heavily in pension funds in Europe right after World War II. This certainly helped European reconstruction, but also allowed the US to have a system of control within the European Economy. I think part of US foreign policy is purely to make the world interdependent, so that no one country could challenge the US economy. Do you know anything about this??  

1 Mar 2006 @ 19:53 by Cyrus @ : Addendum
Of course this does not justify "hatred" for the United States. I guess the real problem is that the American ideals that we see everyday within the country don't translate into Foreign Policy. Believe it or not, and this is why people who post here from the US and from foreign countries don't understand each other, US FOREIGN POLICY IS OFTEN EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE OF US DOMESTIC POLICY. US foreign policy can be aggressive, bullyish and is often perceived as arrogant. On the other hand, the American lifestyle is absolutely the opposite of that. It might just be that the US is a young nation that still lacks the experience to deal with the outside world in a delicate, diplomatic way. We must understand that aggressiveness has only created more enemies (and subsequently more terrorists). Evidently, violence is never a solution.  

1 Mar 2006 @ 19:56 by Cyrus @ : Correction

1 Mar 2006 @ 22:30 by mishka @ : to stupid cyrus
what nons are you taking again cyrus. you are so stupid. the us can behave as it choose fit that is business. and terrorist are terrorist any way. for religious purposes and bec they are violent by nature. and tell your president aminajad how to behave. i am sure he will cut your head are so stupid. you hate the us bec of your inferiority complex.AND YOU ARE A FOOL! THINKING YOU CAN FOOL should have never let iranians in or from any other nations on the list.i agree with you vibrani completely!  

1 Mar 2006 @ 22:34 by mishka @ : correction
terrorists are terrorists  

2 Mar 2006 @ 02:08 by Cyrus @ : Mishka = GREATEST IDIOT GOD CREATED
Let me be blunt: I AM SICK OF YOUR STUPID CACKLING. Looking at the submittal time attached to your posts, I am assuming you live in Israel or somewhere in Europe. I live in California and love this State and its PEOPLE, so put a sock in it. I never said I hate the US; I just don't like Bush, his cronies or his foreign policies (it seems that he is screwing up in Iraq big time now). I personally wanted Kerry to become President.

Next time, READ MY POSTS COMPLETELY AND CAREFULLY, BEFORE OPENING YOUR MOUTH. OTHERWISE DON'T EVEN BOTHER ANSWERING TO THEM. AT LEAST RESPOND IN SUCH A WAY THAT WE CAN HAVE A DISCUSSION. AND YOU BETTER START LEARNING SOME ENGLISH, BECAUSE YOUR POSTS ARE RIDDLED WITH MISTAKES. Most of the time, you just reply to my posts with the same banter that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH MY POST IN THE FIRST PLACE. You talk about Ahmadinejad when I haven't even mentioned him. It seems that you are an Xenophobic pig, because you completely miss the point in my posts and then go on to say, "Go back to Iran". Well why don't you go to the North Pole and spit your bile at the penguins, you racist??  

2 Mar 2006 @ 02:13 by Cyrus @ : Mishka's Obsession
And what is this obsession of yours??: "THINKING YOU CAN FOOL ME." Like I said many times before, your total lack of arguments and the fact that your responses to my posts are all the same and have NOTHING, AND I MEAN NOTHHHHING to do with my posts to begin with, makes you a FOOL by definition; there is no need for me to "fool you", since you are a fool already. Maybe I should write my posts in layman's terms so that you can understand something?!?  

2 Mar 2006 @ 02:35 by Cyrus @ : MISHKA IS A RACIST
"us should have never let iranians in or from any other nations on the list"

What list are you talking about?? Don't be SUCH A RACIST. Hell, maybe the American Indians should not have let any of us come to America, since they were the first ones that settled here.  

2 Mar 2006 @ 06:48 by johnnyboy @ : white people
white people were actually here first. they were just absorbed by the mud races. how's that for a racist statement cyrus? i love being superior because of my skin color! it give such great advantages such as employment, police protection, more money, etc. damn! i love being white!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

2 Mar 2006 @ 06:53 by johnnyboy @ : mishka
i think that everyone should be a racist. they should have pride in their color, nationality, ethnicity, etc. by the way mishka, i think that secretly you wanna jump cyrus' bones and make love to him/her. what happened to the cartoon topic? good god people just let this thing die!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

2 Mar 2006 @ 07:32 by vibrani : Johnnyboy and Cyrus
Johnnyboy, it will die for you if you stop commenting. lol

Cyrus, some loans have been totally forgiven, leaving us to keep paying this bullshit national debt. What's wrong with lending countries money so they can pay back with interest once they've gotten back on their feet? But, to spend $13 or $14 billion (or was it million, it was back at the start of Bush's first term) for Poland to end their smog problem and we won't be paid back for that is reckless and stupid in my opinion.  

2 Mar 2006 @ 12:37 by mishka @ : to cyrus
you are a racist!!!! always protecting the losers of this world. the killers and the terrorists, no matter what!! the red indians are long gone.with all their idol worshiping and human sacrificing crap. they had to go but you didnt have to come in!!!!!!!  

2 Mar 2006 @ 16:32 by mishka @ : to johnnyboy
i cant stop laughing. you are cute!!  

2 Mar 2006 @ 16:43 by mishka @ : to cyrus
and please cyrus go and join another forum or be a motivational speaker for losers. just lie to them. you are so good at that.TELL THEM THEY ARE WINNING!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA  

2 Mar 2006 @ 19:21 by Cyrus @ : Mishka, Johnnyboy
"white people were actually here first. they were just absorbed by the mud races. how's that for a racist statement cyrus? i love being superior because of my skin color! it give such great advantages such as employment, police protection, more money, etc. damn! i love being white!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

You have one hell of a sense of humor! And congratulations on your whiteness; you must be as white as my bed sheets. Good for you!!!Oh, the whites were absorbed by the "mud" race??? Then how did you get so white?!!?? Maybe you were scared to near death by that ghost in your past post?!?

"you are a racist!!!! always protecting the losers of this world. the killers and the terrorists, no matter what!! the red indians are long gone.with all their idol worshiping and human sacrificing crap. they had to go but you didnt have to come in!!!!!!!"

Hey, if I don't protect the losers, Jesus Christ will!!! I don't think all American Indians did sacrificing, but I might be wrong. I will bear in mind your extremely intellectual equation (congratulations!!! Your first one!!!):

racist = protecting the losers of this world.

"they had to go but you didnt have to come in!!!!!!!"

What makes you think I came in??

"and please cyrus go and join another forum or be a motivational speaker for losers. just lie to them. you are so good at that.TELL THEM THEY ARE WINNING!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA"

Lie to them?? You believe I am lying?? Give me one VALID counterargument to my posts, and I will consider your position. So far it seems the only thing you can do is tell me that: "You are a liar", "You have an inferiority complex", "You are a racist; always protecting the losers of the world",etc...Namecalling obviously is easy. Let's here something intelligent from you!!! I am sure you can do that. You can even ask your pastor to help you out!!! How about: "The Earth is Round" or "The Universe is several billion years old"?? Oh, I forgot, don't listen to me, because I'm a liar!!! This "stupid, racist liar, who protects the losers" salutes you.  

2 Mar 2006 @ 21:27 by Cyrus @ : Loans
"Cyrus, some loans have been totally forgiven, leaving us to keep paying this bullshit national debt. What's wrong with lending countries money so they can pay back with interest once they've gotten back on their feet? But, to spend $13 or $14 billion (or was it million, it was back at the start of Bush's first term) for Poland to end their smog problem and we won't be paid back for that is reckless and stupid in my opinion."

Its true that some loans have been forgiven. The problem with these loans is that it ends up in the pockets of the wrong people. I think the US also gave money to the PLO. I am sure most of it ended up in Arafat's wife's pocket, if not in his own pockets. It then seems difficult to assume that the PEOPLE of some countries should be grateful to us for our loans, since those loans don't go towards what they're intended for to begin with. The PEOPLE of those countries maybe don't even see the effects of those loans; I am sure they don't even know about them. Of course, there is no other effective way of getting money to the people, except through their government. I guess it's a very debatable issue. It's a shame, but the truth is that human beings don't see the good in things, only the bad. So, just as some see only the "bad" in the muslim world, so do others only see the "bad" in the US or Europe. Miscommunication is our biggest problem.  

2 Mar 2006 @ 22:49 by mishka @ : to cyrus
it seems like you dont understand my short and sweet writings.and to say that china contributed more to the world then europe. wow man you must be a total idiot. i mean total!!! oh they did invent the gun powder if thats what you refering to. and coming from iran and beeing a muslim yourself thats all you care about after all!!!!!  

2 Mar 2006 @ 23:57 by Cyrus @ : Mishka
"it seems like you dont understand my short and sweet writings"

Which part of it is so sweet??? The "you are so stupid" part?? Yeah, I guess that's like Sweet and Low.

"and to say that china contributed more to the world then europe. wow man you must be a total idiot. i mean total!!! oh they did invent the gun powder if thats what you refering to"

The Chinese invented the seismograph too and many other things. If you would like, I'll give an entire list of stuff. Before the Mongolian invasions, they were far more advanced than most of the world. Of course, don't forget that Europe went through the dark ages after the fall of Rome. At that time, Europe was far behind the rest of the world. Just because the West is advanced now, doesn't mean they were always. The same applies to every country and/or civilization. Why is that you make comments in the air without looking at a good history book beforehand??? You say the most silliest things and then proceed to call me an "idiot". For not investigating further and referencing your comments, you are the "total idiot". And since you love Europe so much, why don't you go and live there??? Believe me, if you repeat your nonsense over there, they'll throw eggs at you!!!

"and coming from iran and beeing a muslim yourself"

Sorry to disappoint you, but I am not a Muslim, nor Catholic, nor Jewish, nor of any religion for that matter, as YOU SO PERFECTLY KNOW ALREADY.

"thats all you care about after all!!!!!"

Please address this to the NRA, since they are the ones that should be rejoicing over the invention of gun powder!!!!  

3 Mar 2006 @ 01:43 by vibrani : Cyrus - loans
Yup, the U.S. gave money to many countries, to Iraq, and to the PLO. Did you know that today the PA returned money to the US so it wouldn't fall into the hands of Hamas? There are good and bad things going on with money,like money that bought tons of food and supplies, medicines, for African people and the people never saw them because rebels got ahold of them. So what do you want to say?  

3 Mar 2006 @ 08:23 by johnnyboy @ : nra
i love the nra and guns. i currently own 8 with plans to buy about 15 more! let's talk about happy things like that instead of cartoon and a-rabs. let's just let this post die forever.  

3 Mar 2006 @ 10:37 by mishka @ : to cyrus
yes please send me the list of chinese inventions. lets hear you.and the list for arab inventions please.  

3 Mar 2006 @ 10:56 by vibrani : CHRISTIANS UNDER COVER
The reality of Christians living with Muslims and what they feel forced to do to survive, and what they've been forced to do, and what they now face with Hamas.


Palestinian educator Dr. Maria Khoury geared up for the winter chill with what was at the time a meaningless purchase: a black silk scarf with silver stripes to drape around her neck.

But now, on her daily excursions from the West Bank's Taiba to nearby Ramallah, the scarf serves as a political symbol of the changing times.

"Since Hamas took over, I cover my head in Ramallah," she says. "I don't feel comfortable."

In the largely cosmopolitan Ramallah, though they comprise some 10 percent of the population, Christians are becoming less and less visible.

The first time that Khoury ran into her local parish priest there with her head covered, he raised his eyebrows and laughed.

"I see more and more women covered up," Khoury says, explaining that for now, it's preferable to play it safe and assimilate on the street, even if she would never choose to cover her head otherwise.

"Years ago I even used to go in short sleeves," she says. "You'd have to put a gun to my head to get me to wear short sleeves now."

With fear of government-supported religious coercion on the rise since Hamas's unexpected win in January's Palestinian elections, Christians across the West Bank and Gaza Strip are keeping a low profile, with eyes wide open.

Though no changes on the ground have affected their rights as of yet, they are watching carefully and anxiously to see if an already precarious "church and state" separation in Palestinian government is about to disintegrate.

They have reason for concern: If Hamas follows on its founders' path to fight Israel and install strict Islamic religious rule, Palestinian Christians stand to become a legally subjugated minority inside Palestinian society, while suffering further conflict with neighboring Israel.

A small minority, estimated to be between one to two percent of the total Palestinian population, Christians have long been in an awkward position, managing a balancing act of simultaneously being insiders and outsiders.

Local Christians see themselves as part of a single Palestinian people with Muslims - with a shared destiny, language and culture, a shared political goal to keeping their land in a safe, sovereign Palestinian state and shared suffering and anger.

On the other hand, they are an ever-shrinking minority, with separate religious beliefs and rituals, trying to fight for religious equality and oppose violence as a means of legitimate struggle, without isolating or alienating themselves from the larger Palestinian population.

Intermarriage between Palestinian Christians and Muslims is a rare, sensitive and sometimes risky issue.

Further exaggerating the balancing act in recent years is an insecure relationship with western Evangelical Christians, who fervently support Israel, leaving indigenous Palestinian Christians on the other side of the security fence sometimes feeling neglected or like the enemy, despite a shared reverence for the Christian Gospels.

Amidst this already tenuous situation, Palestinian Christians are holding their breath, as a new Palestinian leadership determines their future.

While locals and analysts doubt Hamas will enforce a strict Shari'a religious law, the Christian community is proceeding with a "just in case" caution.

ALCOHOL IS one of the things on the minds of Christian and secular Palestinians these days - not because the society drinks very much, but because it is an at-risk symbol of freedom in a secular society, a symbol that was tolerated under the largely secular Fatah leadership.

Though in Gaza alcohol was banned in recent years and only smuggled in, legal alcohol manufacturers, distributors and pubs can be found across the West Bank in many areas with Christian populations, like east Jerusalem, Ramallah, Bir Zeit, Jericho, Jifna and around Bethlehem.

Since the elections, a new joke has hit these neighborhoods: "Better drink up now - while we still can." Despite the joke, business for vendors is a little slow.

"There is a change in the market because people are hesitant to overstock," says Nakhle Jubran, a Ramallah-based family manufacturer of Arak, an anise-flavored liquor. "People are taking a 'wait and see' approach. This happens whenever the political climate changes. I assume it's temporary."

People are hoping for order, and not only freedom, he added: "Before Hamas there were problems, people shooting in bars and nightclubs for stupid or no reasons. [Lawlessness] and chaos is not only a problem for Christians, but all minorities, rich and poor."

In Taiba, a solely Christian neighborhood with fewer than 2,000 residents, the only micro-brewing plant in the Middle East and the only Palestinian beer brewery is finishing the last touches on its first non-alcoholic beer.

"It's a good time to launch," says Nadim Khoury, head of the Taybeh Brewing Company.

Not only is a non-alcoholic beer a respectful and careful nod to religious Muslims, but the product is also good for Palestinian economic interests, a fact that Hamas is unlikely to ignore, he says: "Other non-alcoholic beers are already produced in Turkey, Egypt and Bavaria, so a locally-produced product would benefit the Palestinian economy. Hamas knows it needs all kinds of support. We also generate revenue for the Palestinian economy by buying gas for our trucks, paying our workers, etc."

Hana Karkar, an east Jerusalem and West Bank distributor of Taybeh Beer, as well as Israeli and foreign beers, says it's not just the alcohol industry that's on edge. "Restaurants are afraid that the Palestinian Authority won't be able to pay their monthly bill, because of all their financial problems."

OTHER SYMBOLS of religious and social freedom, from secular dress to coeducational schools and the right to opt out of a mandatory Islamic religion and history test for students, are on the list of rights that Christians are talking about in the wake of the Hamas win.

But the issues they aren't talking about are even more critical, says an area bishop who spoke to The Jerusalem Post on condition of anonymity.

"The situation is complex, very delicate, very sensitive. Tensions between Christians and Muslims revolve around social and criminal issues, but there are also religious issues, strong and sometimes harsh issues," he said. "Fear of revenge, isolation and misunderstanding keeps them from speaking up. There are many prejudices, and it can be dangerous. For this reason, and sometimes to protect the family's honor, sometimes things are not reported."

One issue that is underreported is what the bishop calls "property abuse," instances when a Muslim steals the property of a Christian, he says. "It's important to add that on occasion this happens with the help of other Christians, who get paid off to report when a family is on vacation."

Attorney Justus Reid Weiner recently published a report via the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs that says Palestinian Christians also frequently underreport violence and harassment, including sexual harassment and rape.

And tensions are always high when Christians feel their neighborhoods or holy places are being violated, like after a September attack on 14 Christian family homes in Taiba. A local priest, Father Raed Abu Sahliyeh, told The Palestine Report that 14 young men from Deir Jreir were arrested, but released in exchange for calm.

The attack took place after a Muslim woman caught having an affair with a Christian man was purportedly killed by her family in an "honor killing," and angry neighbors came out to target the relatives of the Christian man. Villagers reported hearing the rampagers saying, "Let's get the Christians."
Palestinian security forces were delayed from intervening, held up at Israel's Beit El checkpoint, making the Christians feel abandoned by their Muslim neighbors and by Israel. But their religious leader spoke cautiously.

"The attack by the young men of Deir Jreir was a violent, unjustified and barbaric reaction, but it should not be taken as an attack by a Muslim village against a Christian village," the priest told local newspapers, adding that such events have happened previously and with worse results, including deaths.

"I reject the newspapers and the people who spoke about an attack by Muslims against Christians," he added. "I will repeat this a million times: We are Arabs, we are Palestinians and we are Christian since 2,000 years. This is a small biblical village. We have lived in peace with surrounding Muslim villages for 14 centuries. This mistake between two people should not poison the relations between Muslims and Christians. Those who are playing this dirty game should calm down. We are wise and we say that we have no choice but to live together, side by side, and with friendly relations."

The plight of Christians is not known to Palestinian human rights organizations, says Bassam Eid, director of the Palestinian Human Rights Monitoring Group. "I'm quite sure there are some troubles or clashes but they do not represent a trend," he says. "Our organization has never received information about discrimination; we have only heard rumors, which seem exagerated. If there is persecution or discrimination, the Christian community must raise it at once to Christian Palestinian Legislative Council members and to rights organizations."

Such messages as have already been sent have been hesitant. Thirteen Holy Land patriarchs and bishops sent a statement to Hamas on February 1, congratulating the Palestinians on their democratic performance, and offering cooperation toward "justice and peace in a nonviolent way, whether in regard to foreign relations [or] the rule of law together with full religious freedom." They also offered prayers for "the Holy Land with all its inhabitants, Palestinians and Israelis, be they Muslims, Christians or Jews."

Days later, delegations of Christian Arabs from Israel appealed to a Vatican assembly for aid for Holy Land Christians, to help stem further emigration and despair. Christians around the world worry that ancient Christian neighborhoods will become antique ruins without native inhabitants. Since the 19th century, periods of economic and political turmoil have often led to periods of migration for Christians, many of whom already have family in North, Central and South America.

"The whole Palestinian people is suffering because of the general situation, but Palestinian Christians suffer twice as much," says Palestinian theologian and psychologist George Khoury, who recently emigrated to the United States.

DESPITE TENSIONS, analysts predict that Hamas's hunt for financial stability and international recognition and legitimacy is likely to keep it more moderate - at least for the time being.

"Hamas is trying so hard to be accepted internationally that they will work even harder than Fatah in this direction," says Palestinian journalist and commentator Daoud Kuttab.

"In Bethlehem, Palestinian Christians had some real problems with the way the PA dealt with some of their complaints. The current feeling is that Hamas will do better in this direction. [Shari'a being imposed] is a risk, although I don't think at present it is a big risk. Hamas barely won in real terms and so they don't have anything close to the 2/3 majority they would need to make such changes."

Palestinian legislation currently reserves six local seats for Christian candidates to help govern their own cities, and in the cities with the largest Christian populations, Ramallah and Bethlehem, Hamas voted as well for the local Christian candidates, a point Kuttab says also underlines a Hamas awareness of Christian concerns.

Recent events also made political analysts around the world take a second look at Hamas.

When protests broke out across Gaza after the publishing of the Muhammad caricatures, Muslim gunmen associated with Fatah threatened local Christians and their churches. But when word got out to local Hamas leader Mahmoud Zahar, he astounded locals and internationals by paying a visit to a Catholic church to apologize and offer the protection of his own military forces.

"You are our brothers," Zahar purportedly told Father Manuel Musallem.

Fatah gunmen then returned to the Catholic grounds there, armed this time with red carnations, to apologize for their comrades' transgressions.

Later, members of the Greek Orthodox church joined their Muslim neighbors in Gaza City for a peaceful solidarity protest against the caricatures.

In Nablus in December, the Hamas-affiliated Mayor Adli Yaish told The Jerusalem Post that he planned to uphold one of his campaign pledges: to run Nablus as a city for all its citizens. "Our slogan is Nablus for all, which means Christians, Muslims, Samaritans and people from the villages," he said. Local Christians there also helped elect the Hamas city council candidates, who won a sweeping majority.

Randa Siniora, a Palestinian lawyer and head of Al-Haq, a Palestinian human rights watch group, explains that Hamas will be very careful not to step on the rights of Christians, even though Shari'a remains one source for legislation.

"It was shocking, stunning that Hamas won. We saw the worries of Christians and also secular Muslims who want a separation [of church and state]. But Hamas has other priorities and will postpone addressing these issues [of Shari'a]. There are some voices for Islamization, but they have been shut down. [These] voices are not the trend in Hamas leaders, who are focusing on political, not social, issues. Hamas is pragmatic; it knows that if you touch these issues it could be detrimental, even catastrophic for them."

If there are any changes they will be gradual and with the people's approval, she added.

"If you look at the basic Palestinian law, it clearly outlines respect for religion and religious practice. Laws about family status will affect only Muslims. Shari'a is tricky, it can be interpreted in many ways by different individuals. In Palestinian law it's hard to drop Shari'a as a source."

Palestinian society itself may also put up a fight against strict Shari'a, as locals are considered much more liberal than many other Arab populations across the Middle East and Africa, where Christians routinely complain of discrimination, coercion and violence under Shari'a.

ACROSS THE WEST BANK, local Christians, the secular and other minorities are waiting to see whether agreements signed by Yasser Arafat will be upheld, like the year 2000 agreement between the Holy See and the PLO guaranteeing freedom of religion, and the Palestinian "Basic Law" passed by the PLC in 1997 and ratified by Arafat in 2002.

Regarding religion, the Basic Law says: "Islam is the official religion; the respect and sanctity of all other heavenly religions shall be maintained; the principles of Shari'a shall be a major source of legislation; all Palestinians are equal under the law and judiciary, without discrimination because of race, sex, gender, religion, or political views; freedom of belief and performance of religious rituals are guaranteed [unless] they violate public order or public morals." [How can all be treated equally if the only law that counts is Islamic? - Vibrani]

Though Siniora doesn't think Hamas will go so far as to attempt to control the way people dress or participate in drinking or secular activities in public, she does think people will observe self censorship as a defensive measure.
"I think people will censor themselves," she says. "Young people usually celebrate Valentine's Day at Bethlehem University. This year [after the elections] they didn't, but nobody censored them. This [self censorship] is more dangerous because it is creating changes on the ground."

Bernard Sabella, a Bethlehem University sociologist who was elected in January to Bethlehem's city council, was apparently thinking about such issues several years ago. In 1999, after increased tensions between Muslims and Christians when Muslims laid the cornerstone for a mosque in Nazareth, he was quoted in Cairo's Al-Ahram newspaper as saying, "A majority-minority relationship means either you don't have equal rights before the law or that you are dependent on the good will of the majority for these rights. At the dawn of the 21st century, this idea is simply no longer acceptable to Palestinian Christians. I exist in Palestine not because Muslims or the PA or Israel 'protects' me. I exist here by virtue of my birth, my ancestors and, above all, because I am a Palestinian. I don't owe this existence to anybody. The age of Ahl Ad-Dhimma [second-class citizenship] is over."

Like Sabella, Palestinian Christians worry that the rest of the world has forgotten that their roots are indigenous.

"This is called the Holy Land and we were here before the Muslims... I mean, look at our late president [Arafat]. He was always saying 'Christians and Muslims;' he always said Christians first, because he knew we were here before Muhammad," says Nadim Khoury.

"But I think it's too early now for Hamas to worry about Christians. Hamas will either become more moderate and succeed in parliament, or will become more religious and strict on women's dress and alcohol - but nobody will like that, so I don't think they will choose that path.

"Let's give them a chance. After all, [Menachem] Begin delivered Sinai and [Ariel] Sharon delivered Gaza. Maybe Hamas will deliver, too."

His sister-in-law, Maria Khoury, agrees. "We will follow any rules, but it's important for my son to have the same freedoms he had before. We already struggle under Israeli occupation; we don't want to struggle under Islamic rule. We want everyone to have rights, not just Christians."
And by summer she hopes things will have cooled down.

"By then," she says, "the black scarf will be very hot to wear over my head."  

3 Mar 2006 @ 19:15 by Cyrus @ : Chinese Inventions
Some Chinese inventions:

- Moveable type for the printing press (1045 A.D.)
- Gunpowder
- Compass
- Seismograph
- Sphagetti (from noodles)
- fan
- kites
- iron casting
- First to harness animals for agricultural purposes
- made boats modern with magnetic compasses, sternpost rudders and watertight flamboyance, plus many other things to long to tell
- The first clock
-The first blast furnace, which was water powered.
- They invented the first object for counting, called an abacus.
- They were the first to discover the rudder
- Processed grain
- The Chinese also were the first to think of harvesting silk, and make clothes, fans, kites, toys, paper, and lots of other things from it.
- They produced the first planetarium
- In the 3rd century, they a found a wine that acted like anesthetic, and they also used herbs before the age of written history
-Invented paper and printing
- The first to invent books and had book shops in every city by the end of the T'ang dynasty
-In the Han dynasty, 206B.C.-A.D.220, paper and ink were invented.
-In the T'ang dynasty, 618-906, the first printer was invented.
-In 868 AD the earliest known book ever was printed.
-Invented origami
- They also modified paper to make raincoats, windows, umbrellas, they used a lot of paper in their houses even windows!
- Armor for war was made from strengthened paper
- Nest Cart - looked kind of like the Eiffel tower, with a giant birdhouse on top of it. The nest cart was a mobile lookout, for oncoming armies and other things. The people in the nest cart also dropped bombs from their perch, which was perfect because they had a bird's eye view.
- Built the first cannon, which were just bamboo cases holding gunpowder and were put in a big iron cannon.
The Chinese had many natural remedies some of which included natural herbs and acupuncture.  

3 Mar 2006 @ 20:45 by mishka @ : to cyrus
well thats not much at all. european people invented all those and much more. besides the silk i agree was invented by china. but we could live without it.and sphaghtti from noodles, well they had to eat something. they clame to be a civilization of 1000th years, so thats very little invention in my opinion.but thanks for the info. try now and get the european ones..............this web site wont be big enough.  

4 Mar 2006 @ 01:03 by Cyrus @ : To Mishka
Note that my list is not complete. And let's not forget, that some inventions and discoveries made afterwards in Europe and elsewhere required prior knowledge and prior inventions. For example, the car required many innovations that had occurred previously in order to be invented (invention of rubber for the tires, discovery of the chemical reactions in a battery, discovery of glass, invention of the diesel engine, etc..). As one of my Greek friends once told me, even though Integrals were largely advanced as a mathematical notion by Leibniz, no one could ever have discovered it without all the mathematical knowledge that came down from the Greeks (and others). So maybe the Chinese inventions seem little to you, but without them we would not have many of the inventions we see today. Furthermore, these inventions mostly occurred before the Mongolian invasions. These invasions ushered a "dark age" in China, much like the fall of the Roman Empire in Europe.

"european people invented all those and much more"

Actually, either the Chinese or the Europeans invented them. In this case the Chinese did before the Europeans. This probably happened at the time Europe was going through the "dark ages". The Europeans had, in my opinion, many great moments of scientific discovery and knowledge:

- During the height of Greek Civilization
- Newton's time
- The Industrial Revolution
- The beginning of the 20th century (major advancements in chemistry, physics)
- The "Computer" Revolution or in general the invention of computers

I am sure that there are many great periods as well. However, as much as I would say that all of mankind contributed to our current progress, the major invasions by the Barbarians in Europe, the Arabs and the Mongolians in Asia and Eastern/Southern Europe were major setbacks for civilization in general. The roaming, plundering, killing, raping nature of these peoples meant that culture and inventiveness would take a back seat to religious fervor and/or barbarity. And of course, Europe also experienced religious fervor during the Inquisition period, during which the number of scientific discoveries and inventions can be counted on one hand. The inquisition and the extreme religiosity in Europe greatly hampered European progress. If it were not for some Men that dared to defy the church, Europe would certainly not be as advanced as it is today. This extreme religiosity is probably why the Middle East has fallen so far behind Europe or the US.  

4 Mar 2006 @ 11:00 by mishka @ : to cyrus
what rubbish are you talking about. you are not worthy of me commenting to you anymore!!!!!! you are living in imaginary world. if it does make you feel better thats ok. bec it seems the truth is to painful for you.dream on!!!!  

4 Mar 2006 @ 11:18 by mishka @ : to cyrus
it seems like when it suits you you generalize. "this extreme religiousity is probably why the middle east has fallen so far behind europe or the us" now its all the middle east who is religiouse extreme. not that i disagree. but thats a poor excuse for them not to advance. think about something else.......  

5 Mar 2006 @ 14:43 by Jengle @ : The American fundamentalists
As an American, I am far more afraid of the fundamentalist baptists and other christians than I am of radical muslims. To picket the funeral of a soldier because of homosexuals? Can we send all the radical Christians and radical muslims and anyone else who believes the entire world should believe exactly as they do to another planet? What people need to understand (all people) is that the extreme fringe of any group does not represent the mindset and beliefs of everyone else. Not all Americans are stupid, hateful people and not all muslims want to blow people up. It is a mistake to lump the extremists in with the rest of the population. America's biggest problem is that our leader is an idiot---but the entire country did not vote for him.  

6 Mar 2006 @ 07:56 by johnnyboy @ : jengle
so dubya is an idiot huh? hhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. i guess that makes me an idiot for voting for him twice. thrice, if you count father bush. well dingle, i mean jengle, all i can say is that if you want to send me to another planet, as i am a christian, you better stand in line. see it is my duty as a christian to spread the Good News-the gospel. if that makes your eyes pop out and your panties get knotted, well you just need to relax and let me and all other radical religious nuts enjoy our freedom to practice our religion as the consitution declares is our right. so let me get this straight, you are afraid of baptists telling you that jesus loves you and protesting immoral deviant behavior than you are of muslims that would cut your pecker off? i'd say that you're the nut job radical that needs to get his priorities straight. we baptists etc. aren't the true enemy, the nutjob sandbathing mooooooooslims that will cut your head off are the real problem. i also think that bush is a kickass take no prisoners take the battle to them bad ass president, unlike billary and her wife bill.lmao. try that on for size you pinhead!  

6 Mar 2006 @ 13:16 by Jengle @ : Johnnyboy--you prove my point
Johnnyboy-thank you for proving my point. You personal attck was childish but then again exactly what I would expect from a frothing at the mouth christain who is no better than a jihadist. I agree you have a constitutional right to practice what ever religion you choose and I have the same right. What makes you believe that your bible is any more "right" than the Koran, or any other religious text for that matter?  

6 Mar 2006 @ 16:06 by mishka @ : to jengle
bush is a great leader and a clever one. you are stupid for thinking that christian fundamentalists are the same as muslim fundamentalists. america is a christian county and if you dont like it get out!!!! i hate leftish people bec they are working againt theire society.but it seems you are a muslim which is worst!  

6 Mar 2006 @ 19:20 by johnnyboy @ : ok jengle wanna dance?
good for you that i dont have the time to counter attack write now. gotta get ready for work monkeyboy. i never said my bible was any better by the way jack ass. and as for frothing at the mouth, you ight be right, so watch out. i might be rabid and you might get bit.rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. by the way twinkletoes, get a sense of humor you flea bitten ass licking pos nerf herder.  

6 Mar 2006 @ 20:03 by Cyrus @ : Mishka
"what rubbish are you talking about. you are not worthy of me commenting to you anymore!!!!!!"

You are not worthy of commenting to begin with!!! It seems to me that you know absolutely NOTHING about history, nor about anything else for that matter. And if what I say is rubbish, why don't you produce a counter-argument or say something even half-intellgent. Oh, I forgot: YOU CAN'T!!

"it seems the truth is to painful for you.dream on!!!!"

What truth?? The one you learn in Church I suppose??? If that is where you get your education, then you are the ONE WHO IS DREAMING!!! Let's hear what kind of lullabies your pastor has been telling you lately.

""this extreme religiousity is probably why the middle east has fallen so far behind europe or the us" now its all the middle east who is religiouse extreme. not that i disagree. but thats a poor excuse for them not to advance. think about something else......."

It is not a poor excuse; it's the MAIN reason. This is exactly why progress in Europe was very slow in the 15th and 16th centuries during the heydays of the Inquisition. Simply put, religious extremism is the enemy of civilization and progress. It is the essence of extreme conservatism = maintaining the status quo. People who advocate maintaining the status quo are advocates of the "no-change" policy. In this case, they are opposed to "progress". Evidently, this means that they prefer remaining in their backward state, while others are moving forward.


6 Mar 2006 @ 20:57 by Cyrus @ : Mishka is floating in LaLa-Land
"bush is a great leader and a clever one. you are stupid for thinking that christian fundamentalists are the same as muslim fundamentalists. america is a christian county and if you dont like it get out!!!! i hate leftish people bec they are working againt theire society.but it seems you are a muslim which is worst!"

The only part of the US that is truly Christian is the "CENTER". If you truly believe that Bush is a great leader, then based on recent public polls, you are really out of touch with reality. Not only is Bush a lousy leader, he is an arrogant fool. His stubborness is costing us billions (money out of my OWN TAXES) and has caused the deaths of thousands of people and soldiers. And what is even more shocking is that he is going to soon lose control of Iraq; a civil war is just looming in the horizon;... and all this for NOTHING. Now, I have respect for George Bush Senior. He was a clever President; he went into Iraq, but was smart enough to know that Iraq would be more stable with a tyrant in place. He was a great multilateralist and a gifted diplomat; he knew how to get consensus; and he certainly was/is not a religious wacko like his son is. Now that Saddam (Maddas) is gone, Iraq will be torn apart by the Sunnites, Shiites and the Kurds; just watch and see!! As far as great leaders go, don't assume that "SHRUB" is a good leader just because we haven't experienced another terrorist attack. HE HAS INDIRECTLY CAUSED AN EXPONENTIAL MULTIPLICATION IN THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE OUT THERE IN THE WORLD WHO HATE US. He is reponsible for creating MORE terrorists, not less. Simply killing all the terrorists will not work. Fundamentalism is an ideology that is growing, because just like the gang culture, it is attracting young people who have nothing, no future, and therefore nothing to lose. The disaffected youths are swarming to join a group and end up being brainwashed into performing self-sacrifice, much like the Japanese Kamikazes in World War II. The only way to stop it, is to push for economic growth and prosperity around the world. If the world prospers as one, then these fundamentalist recruiters will have no valid argument to recruit with. But, seeing how Bush, like Mishka, KNOWS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT THE WORLD, a global conflict is just brewing.

"i hate leftish people bec they are working againt theire society.but it seems you are a muslim which is worst"

Well, you extreme right religious nutjobs are the enemies of civilization. If you had your way, maybe we would be alive (since Muslim fundamentalists would blow us up), but you would hurl society itself back to the stone ages. You extremists are all the same. Muslim, Jew, Christian; there is absolutely no difference. You seek to shove your belief down everyone's throats, while at the same time insulting any other religion but your own. So you hate Lefties??? And yet you so loudly claim that Jesus is your Lord?? If I am not mistaken, Jesus advocated forgiveness and love. He advocated turning the other cheek after being hit on the other. And yet, neither you nor your beloved Bush seem to be doing anything remotely close to that!! You aren't driven by Love, you are driven by HATE. You want WAR when your Christ is dubbed the "Prince of Peace". You are actually the enemies of Christ and you have the arrogance and the nerve of calling yourself a "Christian".

Hey, Mishka, have you ever been out of the US???Do you know ANYTHING about the world??? I highly doubt it.  

6 Mar 2006 @ 22:13 by mishka @ : to cyrus
"the only way to stop it,is to push for economic growth and prosperity arount the world". so now you want me to help those rubbish people. its their problem and they can fuck off. besides its in their blood to be violent. many of them are rich people. and i will not turn the other cheek to my enemy. i will get rid of my enemy!!!!! and who told you a civil war is a bad thing???????????????and about being advanced. look at israelis that are coming from your area. do you believe that they have the same intelligence as the arabs? bec they are much more advanced and still religious.  

6 Mar 2006 @ 23:44 by Cyrus @ : Mishka and her Anti-Christ Propaganda
"and i will not turn the other cheek to my enemy. i will get rid of my enemy!!!!!"

Then you have no business calling yourself a "Christian". You know NOTHING of the Christ, since his central tenet of non-violence visibly eludes you and also Bush and most fascist right-wing Christians.

"so now you want me to help those rubbish people. its their problem and they can fuck off"

You don't get it. Helping them is the best way to avoid having them immigrate or even having these people attack us. When you remove the cause for hatred, the terrorists will go extinct and people will prosper so much more in their own country, that there wouldn't be so much of the troubles we are currently having with immigration. Look at it this way: Starving people are standing outside a restaurant watching you eat a big juicy steak. Furthermore, they are the ones who had to process the meat for you, but are too poor to afford it themselves. Do you think they'll just stand there staring at you?? They'll smash the window, kill you and then eat the meat. Ever heard of the expression: "the neighbor's grass is always greener"? When everyone prospers, your grass will be just as green as your neighbor's. People then won't fall into extremism. This pattern is identical to the crime rate in any country; when the economy is going downhill, there are more murders, thefts, etc... But, when the economy grows, crime plummets: would-be criminals are far too content with their lives to actually go and rob other people.

"and who told you a civil war is a bad thing???????????????"

I suppose people killing each other including innocent by-standers is a good thing? So you are not only against Christ, you are also homicidal. Bravo!

"and about being advanced. look at israelis that are coming from your area. do you believe that they have the same intelligence as the arabs? bec they are much more advanced and still religious."

Yes, the Jewish people are extremely clever and intelligent. However, since being persecuted so often, they had to be clever in order to survive. The Arabs are obviously clever, since they have succeeded in shoving their religious lies down the throats of millions of people (I believe it's about 1/3 of the planet), who have swallowed the fairy tales without question.

What really puzzles me (and this is not an attack on anyone) is how Religious Christians such as yourself defend the Jewish people, when apparently their ancestors were indirectly responsible for Christ's crucifixion and they deny your Christ as anything else but an opportunistic charlatan (a few of them though do consider him as a wise man) . Yet, you have more than proven your hatred for Muslims, who venerate Mary and the Christ as a Prophet?? That seems awfully strange to me, but that's what religion is: a bundle of sugar-coated contradictions.  

6 Mar 2006 @ 23:57 by vibrani : The Romans killed Jesus
get your facts straight. Crucifixion was never a Jewish practice.  

7 Mar 2006 @ 02:15 by Cyrus @ : Vibrani
I said: "...indirectly responsible for Christ's crucifixion". They most likely helped lead or favored his "execution". The Romans governing Jerusalem at that time, carried out the execution by crucifixion. I never said crucifixion was a Jewish practice, hence the wording "indirectly".  

7 Mar 2006 @ 07:42 by johnnyboy @ : where are you jengle boy?
you made an enemy today jengle. i openly challenge you to a flaming contest for calling me a religious nut and saying i'm frothing at the mouth. you insulted my honor. and by the way dirtbag, i'm not a religious nut or a zealot nor due i froth at the mouth. come on jengle! are you a coward? i wish you were here in front of me so i could drag you around by your ear and force you to listen to christian hymns! you really ticked me off by comparing me to a jihadist, you bumpkin! at no time in my post did i ever FORCE my views on anyone else so comparing me to a jihadist is like comparing ghandi to hitler. the jihadists use force and terror to accomplish their goals, christians don't. however, this is one christian that will defend himself and his religion from leftleaning weenies like yourself. some come on jengle, i'll take the fight right to your face!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

7 Mar 2006 @ 09:37 by josh davine @ : freedom
i have the fredom to say fuck alla. and there is nothing u can do about. or fuch christ.  

7 Mar 2006 @ 09:55 by mishka @ : to cyrus
for a non muslim you are defending the muslim a bit to much, dont you think?! i will always be on the side of the jews bec the are god's chosen people. if you read the bible then its clear god's love for them. and how can you say arabs are clever bec they managed to convert many people? who are those many people? europe????? oh boy you are so stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!! you are saying still i must help those people????? and again you just dont get it!!!! i have no interest of doing so. i have another solution for them.what about instead of the starved killing you , you kill him. didnt you think of it you stupid!!!!!  

7 Mar 2006 @ 10:32 by mishka @ : to cyrus
and also the jews had to reject christ so he will pay for our sins. and a christian who hate a jew its a sin bec christ himself was a pure jew. dont forget it!!!! and the jews didnt survive bec of being clever. they survived bec of god's promise in the bible. many many other races didnt make it. and most host nations tried to kill them bec of them being SO CLEVER.but where all those host nations today? MANY OF THEM LONG GONE. but the jews are still here. and before the second comming of christ jews must be back in the holy land.and thats happening now. and stop hiding you are a muslim!!!!!!!!  

7 Mar 2006 @ 16:47 by mishka @ : to cyrus
and i will turn the other cheek only to my friend and my brother who upseted me. but never to my enemy!! whats the point of doing so!? to let my enemy get rid of me faster!?YOU ONLY COULD WISH WE WOULD HAVE DONE IT TO THE MUSLIMS. BUT THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN STUPID! WE DONT SURRENDER TO EVIL!!!!!!!!  

7 Mar 2006 @ 18:24 by johnnyboy @ : fuck josh davine
fuck josh davine like the little whore she is, bitch slap her too!  

7 Mar 2006 @ 18:37 by johnnyboy @ : jengle: a coward
well jengle, i guess you decided not to take me up on my open and direct challenge to you for a flaming contest. that in my opinion, makes you a spineless little coward. guess you didn't have the nuts to back up your opinions and had to go hide when a radical religious nut job as you so kindly called me decided to pick up the sword and meet face to face. such is your ilk jengle. you and your kind as a whole like to spout of unfounded nonsense about people with differing views than yourself then run and hide like the proverbial "scaredy cat". so much for the left's "tolerance". at least i had the tenacity to stand and fight for what i believe, unlike yourself you chicken hearted sugar pants dandy. while i disagree with cyrus in general, at least he's got he nuts to stand up and throw it back. jengle, you sicken me with your dishonor. you putrid pile of chicken shit...  

7 Mar 2006 @ 18:42 by johnnyboy @ : mishka
mishka, you're posts kind of are sexy. wish you were here in person so i could check you out. wink wink.  

7 Mar 2006 @ 21:17 by mishka @ : to johnnyboy
oh thanks. and go get him johnnyboy. he is a leftish pussycat.  

7 Mar 2006 @ 22:13 by Cyrus @ : Freak Out
I wonder if Mishka would freak out if I put a Muslim under her bed?!? HAHAHAHAHA  

8 Mar 2006 @ 07:09 by johnnyboy @ : too long cyrus
cyrus, have you ever heard of the phrase "short and sweet"?  

8 Mar 2006 @ 13:30 by Rey @ : from a Lebanese friend
By Brigitte Gabriel:_ _ _ I was ten years old when my home exploded around me, burying me under the rubble and leaving me to drink my blood to survive, as the perpetrators shouted “Allah Akbar!” My only crime was that I was a Christian living in a Christian town. At 10 years old, I learned the meaning of the word "infidel." I had a crash course in survival. Not in the Girl Scouts, but in a bomb shelter where I lived for seven years in pitch darkness, freezing cold, drinking stale water and eating grass to live. At the age of 13 I dressed in my burial clothes going to bed at night, waiting to be slaughtered. By the age of 20, I had buried most of my friends--killed by Muslims. We were not Americans living in New York, or Britons in London. We were Arab Christians living in Lebanon. As a victim of Islamic terror, I was amazed when I saw Americans waking up on September 12, 2001, and asking themselves "Why do they hate us?" The psychoanalyst experts were coming up with all sort of excuses as to what did we do to offend the Muslim World. But if America and the West were paying attention to the Middle East they would not have had to ask the question. Simply put, they hate us because we are defined in their eyes by one simple word: "infidels." Under the banner of Islam "la, ilaha illa allah, muhammad rasoulu allah," (None is god except Allah; Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah) they murdered Jewish children in Israel, massacred Christians in Lebanon, killed Copts in Egypt, Assyrians in Syria, Hindus in India, and expelled almost 900,000 Jews from Muslim lands. We Middle Eastern infidels paid the price then. Now infidels worldwide are paying the price for indifference and shortsightedness. Tolerating evil is a crime. Appeasing murderers doesn't buy protection. It earns one disrespect and loathing in the enemy's eyes. Yet apathy is the weapon by which the West is committing suicide. Political correctness forms the shackles around our ankles, by which Islamists are leading us to our demise. America and the West are doomed to failure in this war unless they stand up and identify the real enemy: Islam. You hear about Wahabbi and Salafi Islam as the only extreme form of Islam. All the other Muslims, supposedly, are wonderful moderates. Closer to the truth are the pictures of the irrational eruption of violence in reaction to the cartoons of Mohammed printed by a Danish newspaper. From burning embassies, to calls to butcher those who mock Islam, to warnings that the West be prepared for another holocaust, those pictures have given us a glimpse into the real face of the enemy. News pictures and video of these events represent a canvas of hate decorated by different nationalities who share one common ideology of hate, bigotry and intolerance derived from one source: authentic Islam. An Islam that is awakening from centuries of slumber to re-ignite its wrath against the infidel and dominate the world. An Islam which has declared "Intifada" on the West. America and the West can no longer afford to lay in their lazy state of overweight ignorance. The consequences of this mental disease are starting to attack the body, and if they don't take the necessary steps now to control it, death will be knocking soon. If you want to understand the nature of the enemy we face, visualize a tapestry of snakes. They slither and they hiss, and they would eat each other alive, but they will unite in a hideous mass to achieve their common goal of imposing Islam on the world. This is the ugly face of the enemy we are fighting. We are fighting a powerful ideology that is capable of altering basic human instincts. An ideology that can turn a mother into a launching pad of death. A perfect example is a recently elected Hamas official in the Palestinian Territories who raves in heavenly joy about sending her three sons to death and offering the ones who are still alive for the cause. It is an ideology that is capable of offering highly educated individuals such as doctors and lawyers far more joy in attaining death than any respect and stature, life in society is ever capable of giving them. The United States has been a prime target for radical Islamic hatred and terror. Every Friday, mosques in the Middle East ring with shrill prayers and monotonous chants calling death, destruction and damnation down on America and its people. The radical Islamists’ deeds have been as vile as their words. Since the Iran hostage crisis, more than three thousand Americans have died in a terror campaign almost unprecedented in its calculated cruelty along with thousands of other citizens worldwide. Even the Nazis did not turn their own children into human bombs, and then rejoice at their deaths as well the deaths of their victims. This intentional, indiscriminate and wholesale murder of innocent American citizens is justified and glorified in the name of Islam. America cannot effectively defend itself in this war unless and until the American people understand the nature of the enemy that we face. Even after 9/11 there are those who say that we must “engage” our terrorist enemies, that we must “address their grievances”. Their grievance is our freedom of religion. Their grievance is our freedom of speech. Their grievance is our democratic process where the rule of law comes from the voices of many not that of just one prophet. It is the respect we instill in our children towards all religions. It is the equality we grant each other as human beings sharing a planet and striving to make the world a better place for all humanity. Their grievance is the kindness and respect a man shows a woman, the justice we practice as equals under the law, and the mercy we grant our enemy. Their grievance cannot be answered by an apology for who or what we are. Our mediocre attitude of not confronting Islamic forces of bigotry and hatred wherever they raised their ugly head in the last 30 years, has empowered and strengthened our enemy to launch a full scale attack on the very freedoms we cherish in their effort to impose their values and way of life on our civilization. If we don't wake up and challenge our Muslim community to take action against the terrorists within it, if we don't believe in ourselves as Americans and in the standards we should hold every patriotic American to, we are going to pay a price for our delusion. For the sake of our children and our country, we must wake up and take action. In the face of a torrent of hateful invective and terrorist murder, America’s learning curve since the Iran hostage crisis is so shallow that it is almost flat. The longer we lay supine, the more difficult it will be to stand erect.  

8 Mar 2006 @ 18:48 by johnnyhboy @ : the above
and that is why me must fight islam. the above post says it more eloquently that i ever could hope to. islam is our enemy. those within it want nothing more than to dominate the world and destroy us and our way of life. they hate us because we are free. we are free to choose what we believe and how we live. all the differences amongst that we so passionately fight for will matter for nought if we lay down against this threat. if we lay down in defeat, they shall surely destroy us. here is where we must make our stand. now is the time in which we must make it. here is where we shall draw the line. yes, islam IS waking up. it is waking up to the fact that we are showing signs of weakness and appeasement. islam wants the world to be one ummah, one people. to accomplish that they must destroy all in their path. they view it as their "manifest destiny". we must draw the line here and now. i for one will. what can one person do? he can oppose the enemy with his life and fight for the freedoms which god has given him. i ask all that love the west and it's freedoms to read the above post. there you will find the true face of islam. god bless.  

8 Mar 2006 @ 20:32 by Cyrus @ : A point
"Their grievance is our freedom of religion. Their grievance is our freedom of speech. Their grievance is our democratic process where the rule of law comes from the voices of many not that of just one prophet. It is the respect we instill in our children towards all religions. It is the equality we grant each other as human beings sharing a planet and striving to make the world a better place for all humanity. Their grievance is the kindness and respect a man shows a woman, the justice we practice as equals under the law, and the mercy we grant our enemy. Their grievance cannot be answered by an apology for who or what we are."

I think what is missing in this very well written text, is the true enemy of civilizaion: IGNORANCE. Ignorance itself facilitates religious extremism. Should we really think that Muslims are born evil?? It is their education that is gravely messed up. Point in case, the revolution in Iran was fueled by a mass of mostly illiterate, uneducated people who actually believed the Mullahs. Khomeini verbally told these people: "Gas will be free, electricity and water will be free, oil revenues will be entirely distributed to the people, there will be no taxes!". And not one of these fools ever questioned the incoherency of such a speech. They were all too happy to chant "Death to the Shah", without even wondering how in hell the Mullahs would even run a country if everything were free and the main revenue was given to the people. That is a sign of ignorance. Had the governments of these countries promoted education for all and scholarships to study abroad, Islam itself would become dormant, much like Christianity is in Europe. Education and globalization are the KEY.

P.S.: Much of our problems today started when the US and the West (most notably France) helped Khomeini get rid of the Shah. Had the Shah stayed in power, albeit as a constitutional monarch, there would be no Islamic extremism. What a mistake!  

8 Mar 2006 @ 22:10 by mishka @ : to cyrus
cyrus are you trying to write a novel? you must be a very patientman, unlike me! i dont recite from a book those are my can say the blievers are dreamers and those prophecies dont make sense at all. i am no back staber and i dont use jews, their place is solid in the kingdom of god.god did promise them so much, and god isnt a liar. the jews for me are the sign forthe world since no other nation is so much mentioned in the bible from the beginning till end of dismiss anything i give you by saying that or that. but the truth is that no other country in the world its land is disputed for thousands of years that they always fighting for the right for this land. also the fact that the jews are in a constant battle with their neighbours confirms a prophecy that continuously repeat itself, describing a end of time prophecy which says that god will fight their enemies and give them their promised land. if there wasnt anything to fight for,means they had already the land and had peace already with their neighbours then really this prophecy didnt make sense. but thats OBVIOUSLY isnt the case. and please cyrus read carefully what REY had to say. i hope now you understand what i meant when i said "YOU CANT FOOL ME".  

8 Mar 2006 @ 22:28 by mishka @ : to rey
and rey please continue to write in this forum on a regular basis. what we been trying to explain in weeks, you succeeded in only one post. thank you thank you!!!!!!!!!  

8 Mar 2006 @ 22:40 by mishka @ : to johnnyboy
one person can do so much.  

8 Mar 2006 @ 22:45 by Cyrus @ : Mishka
This is beginning to become tiring. Believe whatever damn well pleases you. If you wish to remain detached from reality, that is your choice.

"cyrus read carefully what REY had to say. i hope now you understand what i meant when i said "YOU CANT FOOL ME"."

No, I still don't understand. Like I said before, I never intended to fool you. I was just trying (in vain) to make you wonder whether what you are saying really makes sense, because to me, it's all gibberish. It seems to me that others have brainwashed you into believing really weird stuff the same way extremists have brainwashed their followers. Muhammed and Jesus flying into the sky, angels, demons, etc... belong in children's books. To me you are fundamentally all the same. Remain a fool if you wish; I am tired of trying to reason with you.  

8 Mar 2006 @ 23:24 by Cyrus @ : Mishka; What you fail to understand.
What you still fail to understand is that RELIGIOUS EXTREMISM IN ANY FORM = ENEMY OF CIVILIZATION. Yesterday, it was Christian Extremism (Inquisition,etc..), Today it is mostly Muslim Extremism. What, then, will it be tomorrow???  

8 Mar 2006 @ 23:53 by johnnyboy @ : cyrus
cyrus, i think that we can all agree that ANY extremism, in ANY form, that includes unbridled atheism and rationalism, as well religion, is very bad. what YOU fail to understand is that we have to deal with what we in the West are facing today, the rise of another islamic empire. they are currently the religious nazis that we have to defend against. sure, ignorance is not good and extremism is bad. but to go on and on about all religions for the last 3 weeks is too broad, we in the usa and our allies, need to focus and narrow down our attention to the true threat: islam. the threat isn't coming from nazis, commies, or such ilk anymore. it's coming from a religion, a very specific religion: islam. we don't need to negotiate with them, appease them, or try to understand them. this is weakness. we already understand them. hell, they've spewed enough of their vile hatred that it's actually pretty easy to understand them. it's not christians that are involved in like 90 percent of the world's conflicts today, it's muslims. as a matter of fact, and this you cannot dispute, christian missionaries are supplying food, medicines, education, jobs, etc. to quite a few areas around the globe today. christianity has had its bgad moments to be sure, but all that has pretty much been left behind you see cyrus, in some islamic countries, i would be killed for practicing my faith, and in those same islamic countries, you would be killed for being agnostic or an atheist. so, in this war against terror, and it truly is a war, a clash of civilizations, guys like you and me, though we pretty much disagree on some things, should be allies. we should be allies against the true enemy: islam. they want one world "ummah", one congregation, and if you're not a part of that, you are an infidel, a "kafir". whether you are an unbeliever or a christian, jew, etc. you would become a "dhimmi", a second class citizen. we should be allies against the enemy of all freedoms: islam. whether it be the freedom to not beleieve in god, or to believe, islam is the enemy.  

8 Mar 2006 @ 23:56 by Cyrus @ : And That... why Religion is a poisoned gift. Religion practiced by oneself, kept to oneself is fine; believe what you want. However, all too often, it succumbs to extremism. People want to stretch it and make it divine and mystical, and therfore interpret it as they wish and hurl it into other people's faces. And all too often, anyone who does not agree or puts it into doubt is attacked (verbally as well!) or killed (that is how innocent so-called "infidels" are unjustly killed). My post has always been about "QUESTIONING EVERYTHING". Those that don't question will never change and therefore will never evolve. Extremists never question their beliefs, assuming them to be absolute truths or defending the undefendable with irrational silly arguments. They remain in their own world, never evolving, never questioning themselves. That is truly a shame.  

9 Mar 2006 @ 00:23 by johnnyboy @ : hmmmmmm
so do you think that i'm a fool cyrus? for my faith?  

9 Mar 2006 @ 00:32 by Cyrus @ : Johnnyboy
Hallelujah!! For once we agree. Ok,ok. You are right about the fact that today's radical Islam is a SERIOUS DANGER. And in past posts, here or elsewhere on this terrific site, I have said that Radical Islam seeks to replace all cultures with its own, even if that meant killing civilization itself. I would, however, want us to be vigilant towards ALL extremism, including extreme science, extreme atheism, extreme rationalism. Maybe, anything extreme is purely and simply EVIL. I guess we must strive to put life into balance. And it is true that many religious humanitarian groups have helped many around the world. I really appreciate priests and monks and other religious figures that make it their duty to help the needy instead of preaching prophecies and such; I think they really understand the message of love and compassion that the Christ insisted so much upon.  

9 Mar 2006 @ 00:49 by Cyrus @ : Johnnboy
"so do you think that i'm a fool cyrus? for my faith?"

Not really... I only think that people who accept ANYTHING (Faith, Science) without question, are fools. If you have questioned it and believe that it makes sense to you, then I respect that. After all, it would be foolish of me to call you a fool, unless I was God and I knew the Truth.

The thing is that I just can't understand why so-called educated Muslims, for example, go around the Kaaba, that houses a ROCK (piece of meteorite), without really wondering what they're doing. It is really the blindness of faith that I find troublesome. I also wish that people of all beliefs would champion the essential lessons of their "prophets": to love, respect, etc.... I don't think that part is a matter of faith, and yet I think it is the central tenet of all religions. I mean, what if there is or is no devil, what if there is or is no Apocalypse? Are prophecies and miracles really that important, when billions of people still today are dying and suffering???Do you really think that Jesus or God or any other prophet would want people to worship them, while totally ignoring the plight of their fellow humans??? I think that is what really bothers me the most. But, so be it.  

9 Mar 2006 @ 01:08 by Cyrus @ : Johnnyboy
I noticed that my post at 00:32 posted after the one you sent at 00:23. My post at 00:32 was in response to the one you sent at 23:53!! And the one I sent at 00:49 was in response to the one you posted at 00:23. However it does look funny that your post at 00:23 asks:..."so do you think that i'm a fool cyrus? for my faith?" and my post right after (at 00:32) says: ..."Hallelujah!! For once we agree." Even if it's not meant to be read in this sequence, it is rather funny...  

9 Mar 2006 @ 03:36 by Cyrus @ : The Real Reason For Muslim Outrage
The outburst of insanity from the Muslim world due to harmless caricatures shows how some people are still anchored and dependent on the words uttered by a desert dweller some 1,500 years ago. However this is not the real reason for the outburst. It is politically motivated, as Ming wrote a while back. In most countries it is being used as propaganda to divert public attention away from the shortcomings of these governments. In other countries, such as Pakistan, it is being cynically used by fanatical manipulators in order to destabilize President General Perviz Musharraf. If they succeed in toppling him, an Islamic country of the likes of the Taliban-run Afghanistan will seize power and establish a theocracy one hundred times worse than what was established in Iran in 1979. Moreover, fundamentalists will acquire the Pakistani nuclear arsenal as well as US military hardware sold to Pakistan in recent years. It is a really dangerous game we are playing. And though freedom of speech must ultimately prevail in this incident, one wonders if it is really worth stirring so much passions and killings with mere cartoons. I really think the European media miscalculated when reproducing the cartoons. Without the reproduction, Denmark and JP would have republished even more funny caricatures and continued their right to express their opinion unscathed and without the fear of being harmed or killed by childish, overexcited peoples. I, however, understand the European perspective: Religion for Europeans is not as important as for other people around the world. Therefore, Caricatures of Western Prophets would probably get a laugh riot, while those of non-Western Prophets would be met with scolding. Simply put: The world is still moving at two different speeds: a progressive laic side that separated Church from State long ago and that keeps beliefs in the hearts, and a backwards, decadent side where Church and State mix freely opening the door to any interpretation deemed fit to control and subjugate the masses. A global conflict is looming, since the decadent side is too blind too realize exactly how decadent they are. Believing that they hold absolute truth, they will attempt to impose their will on all, so that no one can question their faith. And yet, not once, do they ask themselves about the purpose of it all. They assume that they walk in God's name, without really wondering if He even exists in the first place. And if He did, do they ever wonder how absolutely useless it is to try and force people to believe in something. So what if a gazillion people believe in Islam?? That does not make it any truer than "Little Red Riding Hood" or the "Three Little Pigs". I fear a clash of religions is inevitable. It is really stupid to fight over something so insignificant compared to other more important issues in our lives.  

9 Mar 2006 @ 09:29 by mishka @ : TO CYRUS
by attacking all religions you are trying to make it a human issue. not a clash of religions or even civilization. you are trying to portray islam as backword religion controled by mullas who manipulate the masses. and by doing so you want us to understand the "POOR" muslim point of view. you are trying to buy more time, work on our sympathy that mayby its our fault that they are like that or its bush's fault or whatever fault just not the muslim fault. you are trying to manipulate this forum. i see it as a 1 0 game. us or them!!!!! and rey really undressed islam and thats what got you so worked up!!!!so please people read again rey post.  

9 Mar 2006 @ 11:40 by mishka @ : to cyrus
oh and please dont write me about the inquisition and crusaders and nazzism communism again. STOP BEING SO GENERAL AND SO BROAD SO YOU CAN DISTRACT US FROM THE REAL PROBLEM THAT WE FACE IN OUR TIME!!!!!!  

9 Mar 2006 @ 13:03 by Rey @ : On Islam today
When we think of any religion and its purpose, we are behooved to think in terms of the universal good; that religion is there to separate good from evil, and essentially equip and fortify us to win over evil. Islam is no different; in fact, Islam is a perfect example. But, it is now a question of how Islam sees evil - today:

Reading the Koran : Strike off their [infidel's] heads. Strike off their finger-tips! … because they defied God and his Apostle [Muhammad]." (Sura 8:12-13) "Make war on them [infidels] until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Sura 2:193) "Seize them and put them to death wherever you find them." (Sura 4:89) "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you." (Sura 9:123) "When the sacred months [Ramadan] are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them; besiege them; and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent [convert to Islam] and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way." (Sura 9:5) O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people. (Sura 5.51)

The many conflicts that we have involving Islam may be political, social, or economic in its true nature, but Islam and its teachings, and the few pieces of words that flow from the Quran have become powerful enough to stoke so much fire in Muslims who suffered not for being Muslims, but for being victims in what, otherwise, would be considered a purely political struggle. But victims they are, these people are easy pawns. And here, Islam, like any other major religion, can be used as a powerful tool to control, to manipulate, and to exhort people into acting in a precisely appropriated direction. To make people see evil the very exact way, a few words from their holy book would want them to see. To make even an otherwise gentle mother want to strap bombs behind her sons backs in a suicide mission and celebrate in joy for the heavenly blessings they are bound to receive...

An what about the following words; words that have been said before -

In Middle Age Europe, a nuclear weapon in the hands of Christians may have been used almost instantly with nary a qualm to wipe all but Christendom. Christendom may have perished along with the rest of the world and it would not even have mattered to them for it was a "just" cause and a "holy" war.

2006, present time - I may be wrong but I intend to stay on the side of those who choose to think with extreme caution: A nuclear weapon in the hands of Islamists would be used almost instantly to wipe out the west, especially or first-in-the-list, the USA, with nary a qualm if this could ignite a drawn-out nuclear war; for it is after all, a holy war.

**A few years ago, 30 units of nuclear warheads have been found missing from the nuclear arsenal of Ukraine. **

It isn't always inadvisable to be paranoid, especially when the possibilities outweigh common reasoning. Islam has become a means to an end. There maybe so very few of those who harbor political or economic reasons to flatten the West, but there are thousands or perhaps, millions of souls who might be willing pawns who would hysterically lay their lives in exchange for heavenly glory. That so, even with the full realization of the possibility of exterminating their own kind.

Islam has to be viewed more closely by the international community. If only - I do hope that Islam be viewed more closely on the tables of the United Nations / the Security Council. Examine the words of their book, examine the teachings in their schools, examine the voices in their temples; and admonish Muslim leaders and learned moderate Muslim individuals from allowing the proliferation of ideas conducive to violence. For all that has been happening around the world, this idea may not be too far out.  

9 Mar 2006 @ 18:53 by Cyrus @ : Mishka continues to be ignorant
"by attacking all religions you are trying to make it a human issue. not a clash of religions or even civilization. you are trying to portray islam as backword religion controled by mullas who manipulate the masses. and by doing so you want us to understand the "POOR" muslim point of view."

I don't want you to understand the "POOR" muslim point of view. If I am attacking religion, it is to attack ALL extremists: Muslims, Christians, whatever... I want a world WITHOUT religion, or I should say a world with only one motto: "love, compassion, etc...etc...". I am sick of hearing both sides squabbling over religion (the whole "my religion is holier than yours", or should I say "hollower??"), when more important issues are pressing against our doors. You are all the same; you all want your belief to dominate the world. Mishka, you know it's the truth; YOU CAN'T FOOL ME! Whether it's Extremist Muslims, Extremist Christians or Extremist Jews, it's all the same...You are all a danger to civilization and Mankind itself. Oh, and I read Rey's last post. Here is a phrase that I have been trying to get across, but that you visibly cannot comprehend:

"And here, Islam, like any other major religion, can be used as a powerful tool to control, to manipulate, and to exhort people into acting in a precisely appropriated direction."

Religion is used to manipulate the people.  

9 Mar 2006 @ 19:44 by mishka @ : to cyrus
well but christians and jews dont go and kill people to prove it.and please i am talking about here and now not 5oo yr ago.its not my problem that they are not advanced. they had thousands of years to get here.  

9 Mar 2006 @ 20:12 by Rey @ : Religion is used to manipulate people
Indeed, Cyrus, religion is used to manipulate people. It was an incontrovertible truth since the beginning of any known civilization. This wouldn't have been any cause for deep concern if not for this current phenomenon where people, themselves, have embraced religion, their beliefs and faith, to a level where violence is justified because the Quran dictates so, and thus, God-ordained. Never in history since Middle Age Europe has the world seen such apex of religious zeal, where a people can watch with heads high an onslaught, murder, destruction, in the name of religion, and feel no desire for self-examination. For years, I have been seeing increasing violence, gory murders, carried out in the name of Islam, hoping all the while that Muslims, who are moderate, or educated, would stir up and show public outcry over what transpired in each incident. As opposed to what's transpiring in many parts of the world now over the Mohammed cartoons, Muslims leave little opportunity for hope and, instead, behoove those who stand witness of these incredible feats of violence wary of this clear and present danger. I will leave you, Cyrus, and those who think as you do, to your noble attempts to qualify today's Islamic fervor as just any other period of upheaval in the history of the world. But, I must say to you, and I must say with great importunity, today's world is far from the same world where similar upheavals have transpired. Today, more that any other time in history, man has the capability to extinguish not only our way of life but also our very existence. And there is a group of people, albeit modern in their minds and way of thinking, who remain primitive in their hearts and spirit, who would if they could unleash over the "infidels" the wrath of hell, and thus, we should be very wary about. Well, I myself, wouldn't worry, for I only have one life to lose and not too thrifty to lose it. But should you value your own, or the lives of those you hold dear, then please notice that a sheep or a dove, can easily get lost in the dark of night; and die.  

9 Mar 2006 @ 23:35 by mishka @ : to rey
brilliant post. i couldnt agree more.  

10 Mar 2006 @ 02:07 by Cyrus @ : A Question for all Bush-Lovers
Here is a question for all Shrub-Lovers out there:

Let us assume the following hypothesis:

1. You LOVE Shrub and consider him a great leader!! Even though he is a crook and most likely crook-ed.
2. You believe fanatical Islam must be killed and all terrorists put to death.

Now here are the facts:

Saudi Arabia runs one of the most repressive regimes on earth, where women are beaten for failing to cover their heads properly and could be put to death for adultery; where no religious expression other than Islam is tolerated; where there are no independent newspapers or political parties. Saudi Arabia is known to sponsor telethons to support suicide bombers who target Israeli school buses; they finance and arm Islamic Jihad; they spread the extreme Wahhabi Islam that has bred a generation of fanatical haters of America,the West and non-Muslims in general (including the Shiites, which they view as heretics); their country produced Osama bin Laden and fifteen of the nineteen September 11th hijackers; and even afterward the Saudis denied US requests to turn over information about Saudi links to terrorism, and refused to let US planes that targeted the Taliban (who they sponsored) take off from Saudi soil.



A high level collusion is still going on...Bush continues to fawn on this disgusting dynasty. Why?? FOR THE OIL.

10 Mar 2006 @ 06:29 by Toti @ : Re: A question for all Bush-Lovers
Bush is ephemeral; he comes and he goes. It is American policy that needs to be put under the lens for its shortsightedness. Now, we are not flying paper dragons here to puncture - if America wants to maintain good relations with Saudi Arabia because it needs its oil, then it has every right and good reasons to do so. Saudi Arabia is not just Islam; it is also an important trading partner. So if the US is looking as if you're indulging in its religious follies while keeping good trading relations with it- that is not fawning - it simply is how commerce is done. Tolerance of their culture may be difficult since the West has become truly sensitive against human injustices done under the supposed auspices of religion or under the guise of culture and tradition. Why? because the west has already gone through all this in its history, perhaps, worse - women were hardly considered human except in very select circles, animals were tortured in sport, and compassion for living beings were plucked out as weakness among males.
But tolerance and compassion is what the West chose because it has learned to be fearful of going back into the old ways that would lead them precisely into the world that they fear!
Going back to Bush and the America under him, I think he has done a lot about Saudi Arabia after 911. A good number of suspected terrorist assets were frozen during that time. Under the prodding of the U.S., Saudi Arabia has stepped up in its campaign against extremists in an unprecedented show of force and vigilance. But despite this, the West must not put their guards down and step-up even further on the offensive, not necessarily to destroy followers of Islam but to actively and methodically root out the warmongers among them. Not to attempt eradication of this religion but to educate in cooperation with Islamic leaders, its followers, in order that they get to understand that any call for violence written in their book is a futile means to an end; where the practice of tolerance and sacrifice to achieve political or social ends are rewarded more than by violent means.

Of course, it is always easier to use force given the West's current military superiority to achieve this objective but, here again, " a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still". Military action against and ideology or religion can only lead to a prolonged endless conflict or the outright extermination of a race.

But who knows, and as I see it, what if? When all else fails, the latter might just be the only way...  

10 Mar 2006 @ 10:16 by mishka @ : to cyruss
all in good times cyrus. you cant take the all world in a day. he needs the oil he must be realistic.  

10 Mar 2006 @ 22:44 by Cyrus @ : To Toti
A lot of what you say is true, however it is rather amazing that Bush attacked Iraq and removed Saddam Hussein under one pretense: that he was a dictator. Granted, he wasn't an angel, but he was far less worse than the Saudis are now. It is just amazing that some people in this forum can defend Bush and also stipulate that Radical Islam is a danger. Radical Islam is dangerous just like any other extremist religious form. And if people are so fearful of it, why not cut it at its root??? It's just too easy to attack some countries and let others that are just as bad get away with anything. The war on terror is all about the oil anyway. It is about the US trying to curb the economic growth of rising nations like India, China, Russia and Brazil (The BRIC nations), that, aside from Russia, heavily depend on foreign oil for their economic growth. So as Mishka said "he needs the oil".  

11 Mar 2006 @ 07:38 by Toti/Rey (same) @ : to Cyrus
There is no defending Bush here. If there is a list of unlikeable people in this decade, I would most probably expect him on the Top 10, for reasons much varied than those you have already mentioned; though something that is beyond the scope of this forum. But I beg to disagree with you when it comes to your surmisal that Iraq has had a political, social, and economic atmosphere far less worse than that of Saudi Arabia. I've lived in Saudi Arabia for 2 and a half years and admittedly, those weren't the best days of my life. I was not insulated from the ordinary day to day lives of common blue collared workers for I was one of them, working in a fast food restaurant. In most of Saudi Arabia but far more so in Riyadh, there was no freedom of religion. Immediate imprisonment and deportation awaits those caught in possession of the Christian Bible, the rosary, or any photograph depicting the Christ, the cross, or the Virgin. For those who were bold enough to preach and proselytize, longer term imprisonment and corporal punishment every Friday afternoon awaited them. To speak anything against the government or the king, one is meted similar punishment. But personally, I believe that such curtailment of people's rights is quite common in a monarchy, no different from that under Communism, and dictatorial regimes. Should any outsider feel compelled to step in and stop these injustice upfront? Universal opinion regarding this would usually constitute calls for reforms or in more serious cases as in the Tiananmen Square massacre, worldwide condemnation. But to engage a country, a sovereign one at that, to a direct confrontation is rarely the response, especially by another country. Thus, I understand most of the arguments given by countries that didn't conform with those of the Allied forces assembled by the US against Iraq. In fact, I agree with their arguments in many points; foremost of which, is the right of a sovereign people to determine their destiny. But I must strongly say, in another point of view, that there is a large chasm between what was happening in the BRIC or in any other country with similar problems as that of what was happening in Iraq. If you could commiserate with the decision of the UN to send peacekeeing troops to Serbia, Mogadishu, and Sudan, it would be easier for you to understand why the decision of stepping into Iraq had been necessary, if only, of course, for this very reason that you are about to read:
The world had known too little of this... not until the regime of Saddam had ended. And if I had my own army, I would have marched there myself to depose Saddam and his sons. Of course, the aftermath of that war, which I, myself, admits had been launched in another not so justifiable reason, resulted in a overdrawn affair. And that was another story. What I have written above is my own personal way of exonerating myself for believing in the wisdom of invading Iraq. I was proud of it only and solely for one reason; that Iraq was delivered from Saddam and his sons.  

11 Mar 2006 @ 11:34 by mishka @ : to cyrus and everyone else
in iraq the body of tom fox the CHRISTIAN PEACE ACTIVIST WAS FOND TODAY. HE WAS TORTURED THEN KILLED. thats what happens to people who seek peace with those people!!!!! and cyrus what is your argument here is, about soudi arabia? they also have lots of oil. and bush can do what he likes he is the most powerful. i think he is to good!!! i wouldnt be that nice to put it mildly.  

11 Mar 2006 @ 11:57 by mishka @ : to cyrus
and if YOU ARE MORE FEARFUL OF BUSH THEN YOU ARE OF RADICAL ISLAM THEN I THINK YOU CANT BE AN AMERICAN!!!!!!!!YOUR PLACE IS NOT IN THE USA CYRUS!!!!!"the war on terror is all about the oil anyway" how can you say that?? did you forget 9/11???? what are you so bitter about??? why is it so painful for you that bush attached iraq?? you are talking about double standards here. but you dont seem to understand that iraq was a security threat much more then soudi arabia.  

13 Mar 2006 @ 12:50 by vibrani : All of 'em
Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran, Iraq - all serious threats. Wake up and smell the coffee.  

13 Mar 2006 @ 17:32 by mishka @ : to syrus
are you still there??  

13 Mar 2006 @ 22:26 by Cyrus @ : 9/11
The attack that occurred on September 11th, 2001 was carried out by fifteen terrorists, eleven of which were from SAUDIA ARABIA. Therefore, the "war on terror" should have been directed to removing the Taliban (and their overlords, AL-Qaeda) from Afghanistan and Pakistan, capturing Bin Laden (who hasn't been captured yet, despite Bushie boasting off that we have the greatest military in the world; unless Osama has been sleeping in the White House all along!!) and destroying the repulsive regime in Saudia Arabia. These are the main culprits of what transpired on that day. Getting rid of the Taliban was the right thing to do and it should have happened sooner. However, instead of getting rid of the Saudi royal blood-hungry family or actively going after Bin Laden, Shrub decides to attack Iraq!! Saddam had no links to 9/11 and even warned the US years before that a terrorist plot was in the planning. Saddam maintained Iraq whole, albeit with brutality. However, he prevented religious extremism from festering in his country and considered the fundamentalists as a threat to his regime. Now what do we have??? A country being torn apart by rival religious factions and ethnic groups that prefer splitting away from Iraq (whose borders and even NAME were created by the English to begin with). A civil war has already begun and God knows what a mess it could create in the greater Middle East. That is why I prefer George Bush Senior way more than his idiot of a son. Senior knew that removing Saddam would seriously destabilize Iraq and that is precisely why he didn't do it; as I said before, he was a multilateralist. In that way, should things have gone bad, the US could have relied on others. Shrub ,on the other hand, unilaterally went to remove Saddam for the most fictitous reasons that he and his buddies FABRICATED ON PURPOSE. By doing so, he has seriously destabilized the region. His unilateral arrogance has left us in an economic and strategic hole: but not to worry, because Halliburton will return our tax dollars when they come back, albeit in their own pockets. And that is one thing I admire about George W.: he has succeeded in taking our tax dollars and putting it into Halliburton's pockets, without anyone voicing their opposition. I guess he'll have a magnificent retirement bathed in millions, while people like Mishka probably will never see that kind of money. It's just hilarious to see that and the fact that most people that he is screwing over are his most loyal supporters!!!  

14 Mar 2006 @ 11:10 by johnnyboy @ : let it die pllleeeaaassseee
please let this thread die. it was supposed to be about some stupid cartoons. move on.  

14 Mar 2006 @ 22:45 by mishka @ : on bush
i adore bush. he is a holyman.  

21 Mar 2006 @ 06:18 by Muhammad @ : Allah's words
Lost Verses of the Koran

Surah 115: The Pig


The hurried flight of the Hegira had led the Muslims to a fertile oasis, where they were at last safe from their many enemies in Mecca.
Pausing, each thanked Allah the moon-god for their good fortune.
Assembling at a long table, they enjoyed rare delicacies brought by bare-breasted sirens whose faces were veiled. During the feast Muhammad sternly forbade his disciples to partake of pig flesh, while fondling the youthful breasts of a Nubian girl named Sheba.
Obeying the Prophet, the pilgrims partook of the succulent flesh of jackals and vultures, washing their food down with strong wine.
“I never dreamed I’d have to eat the loins of a jackal, let alone the bitter entrails of a cursed vulture,” observed a hungry pilgrim named Ahmed to a fellow Muslim, choking on the unpalatable morsels.
“Neither did I, but the Holy Prophet has ordered it,” grumbled another starving follower, almost heaving as he consumed greasy vulture flesh.
“A rancid pork chop would taste a hell of a lot better than this crap does,” retorted Ahmed.
“It’s an acquired taste brother, you’ll get used to it,” spoke up another, smiling with a mouthful of rotten teeth.
“I don’t think so,” said Ahmed, forcing down a burned jackal testicle.
An uncaring Muhammad, famished, greedily wolfed down roasted jackal in enjoyment, quaffing from an earthenware wine carafe on occasion, while choosing which of the sirens that would soon endure his favors.
The meal finished in the late afternoon, a drunken, lustful Muhammad initiated a sex orgy with the sirens, the debauched Holy Prophet, Allah speaking through him, declaring all earlier betrothals or marriages of the women he knew null and void.
The Muslims celebrated their good fortune, again thanking Allah for the bounty they had been blessed to receive.
Later, as Muhammad sat half-naked under a palm tree, masturbating to the thought of molesting little girls, Ahmed chanced by and remarked, "Oh great prophet, why does Allah say that we cannot dine on delicious porcine flesh?"
"Why?" asked Muhammad, closing his filthy, tattered, moth-eaten robe, "Because Allah's younger retarded cyclops brother is a pig, and Allah doesn't want us killing his holy kinfolk."
"Allah is a pig?" asked Ahmed, staring at Muhammad.
"Of course," replied the deranged Prophet, hallucinating thanks to ingesting strong hashish minutes earlier.
"That's ridiculous, why in hell do we worship pigs?" asked Ahmed, thinking his flight from Mecca may have been the result of heeding the words of a false prophet, possessed of a capricious desert demon who delighted in seeing them consume the flesh of vermin.
"Because they're better than we are," answered a smiling Muhammad, now fantasizing about raping little boys, "Look at me, I'm little more than a lecherous child molester, thief and murderer!"
"True, but pigs can't even talk!" exclaimed Ahmed, digging a heel into the sand.
"Allah can, he speaks to me in my dreams," retorted the wildly hallucinating Muhammad, barely able to focus on Ahmed, seeing him in double vision.
"You're a madman," declared a disgusted Ahmed, "I'm heading back to join the infidels in Mecca!"
"Who cares?" retorted Muhammad, slurring his words and breaking into riotous laughter.
Prophet Muhammad, opening his robe and again reaching for his flaccid sex organ, was too occupied with masturbating his building erection to reply further, while Ahmed disappeared behind a sand dune.
"What a stupid, perverted, licentious bastard," spat Ahmed, walking off, "Muhammad is crazier than a shithouse rat!"

Surah 116: The Pervert


And it came to pass that Muhammad was growing ever hornier and more depraved: In a dream it was revealed by Allah that he was to molest a young girl named Ayesha.
Drunk on strong wine, the Prophet looked to a follower named Khalil and announced, “Allah has said I am to have sex on this day with a child; the virgin daughter of my brother in law Abu.”
“What?” asked a frowning Khalil, holding a wine bottle, taken back by the remark and turning to Muhammad.
“I am to know Abu’s daughter Ayesha,” declared Muhammad, a finger in the air, becoming visibly aroused at the thought having sex with her.
“She is but a little girl who plays with dolls; her womb does not yet weep, are you insane?” asked Khalil, knowing in his heart that the Prophet was little more than a pervert, thief, liar and murderer.
“Probably, but it is the will of Allah”, Muhammad said to himself, staggering off to the hovel of Ayesha.
“What a twisted devil the Prophet is – the will of Allah my ass, he’s just an evil, depraved monster who lusts after the flesh,” Khalil mumbled, putting the bottle to his parched lips.
An oblivious and uncaring Muhammad blundered down the street, weaving as he went, arriving at the hovel shortly thereafter.
Knocking on the door, Ayesha’s mother Umm appeared.
“What do you want Prophet?” she asked, staring at the debauched Muhammad, clad in a filthy tan robe covered in dust and wine stains, a lone flea crawling upon his moustache near his nostrils.
“Bismillah, I am here to take your daughter Ayesha in bed,” the Prophet answered, slurring his words.
“You licentious beast!” exclaimed the girl’s mother, “She is only six years old, if it is indeed the will of Allah, take me instead to satisfy your wanton depravity!”
“Taking you is not the will of Allah,” retorted Muhammad, the scent of wine heavy on his foul breath, “You are a wrinkled and faded flower without comeliness; be gone with your favors; I could never get a hard on at the likes of you.”
Enraged by her rebuff, Muhammad smote her upon the face with a backhand.
“That’s what one gets for disobeying the will of Allah,” declared Muhammad, his words punctuated by a loud belch, “Take me to Ayesha, that I may know her on this day!”
Obeying, Umm reluctantly led Muhammad to the room of Ayesha, opening the door.
“This perverted Prophet here wants to screw you,” announced Umm with a frown, Muhammad ogling the virgin child in double vision.
“But you knew my cousin Abdullah, younger brother of Ahmed not an hour ago,” replied a shocked Ayesha, dropping her doll, revolted by the sight of the filthy, lascivious pedophile Muhammad.
“Be that as it may, Allah has said I will also know you,” said Muhammad with an expectant smile, the gleam of lust in his eyes.
“Why me?” asked Ayesha, looking to the Prophet with trepidation.
“Because Allah has said it and I am horny, let us lay down, that I may know you,” ordered Muhammad as he removed his robe, Ayesha’s mother shaking her head in helpless disgust and closing the door.

Surah 117: The Murderer


Muhammad and his followers enjoyed many days away from Mecca at the oasis, home of his oafish brother in law, Abu Bakr, who was also Muslim.
Dining on roast jackal, vultures and snakes, their strength was renewed by the bounty Allah the moon-god provided: plentiful food for their bellies and plentiful sirens for their carnal pleasure.
Khalil was upset that the Prophet was an evil lecherous pedophile who had known a little girl, so he went to the home of Ayesha to speak with her father, Abu the oaf.
He made his way to the hovel, and knocked on the door.
Ayesha’s mother opened the door, frowning as she beheld another of Prophet Muhammad’s followers.
“Is life not bad enough, what are you here for, to rape my daughter, me, or one of my sons?” she inquired with disdain.
“Indeed not woman, I must speak with your husband, not you,” said Khalil, who as a good Muslim, looked down upon women as little more than objects of pleasure, or dogs to be beaten into submission.
“My husband Abu is very drunk,” she related, lowering her gaze in respect.
Khalil entering the hovel, the oaf Abu appeared from a side room holding a wine bottle, and slurred, “What do want here, follower of the Prophet?”
“I must speak with you regarding your little daughter Ayesha,” answered Khalil.
“What about her?” asked Abu, blinking his eyes and trying to focus on the man.
“The Prophet came unto her in her room a fortnight ago; do you not know?” asked Khalil.
“He has come unto her many times since, she is his wife,” replied the unconcerned oaf.
“His wife you say - you permitted it?” asked Khalil, stunned by the revelation.
“Of course; he has come unto one of my nephews too, Muhammad is a pederast, it is the will of Allah,” declared a shrugging Abu.
“He’s raping our child you drunken bastard!” exclaimed a tearful Umm, looking to Khalil.
Abu smote her across the face, admonishing, “Take care woman, speak not ill of Prophet Muhammad, it is the will of Allah. The Prophet first knew Ayesha in a dream, when Gabriel showed her to him, uncovering her body for him to see.”
“That’s really sick, she’s only six years old,” observed Khalil.
“Better for the great Prophet to know her than one of the infidels,” declared a smiling Abu.
“Prophet my ass, Muhammad is a depraved monster possessed of a demon; how could permit such a thing, you are her father!” exclaimed Khalil in utter disgust.
“Yes I am, and the Prophet says I will know her too,” confessed Abu, contemplating the odd thought of having sex with his own daughter.
Umm burst into tears and sobbed, throwing herself to the floor upon hearing Abu’s repugnant words.
A fearful Khalil fled the hovel, not knowing what to think; realizing Muhammad and his brother in law Abu were wicked licentious perverts and vicious rapers of children, possessed of capricious and malevolent demons.
Later, Abu spoke with the Prophet while they entered a brothel together. He told him of the strange encounter with Khalil.
Khalil’s an idiot, he takes Islam much too seriously,” replied Muhammad, looking to his oafish brother in law.
“It is a bad omen Prophet, Khalil woefully disdains your marriage to Ayesha, and disdains that I am to know her too,” declared Abu, even he feeling deep down that such a liaison was distasteful, but knowing it was the unalterable will of Allah, the moon god.
“It is the will of Allah for you to know your daughter, did not Lot of Sodom know his daughters in the cave?” asked a slurring Muhammad, quite drunk, leaning against a wall to steady himself.
“Yes Prophet, he did,” answered Abu with firm resolve.
“Indeed, it was and is Allah’s will,” replied Muhammad, picking a flea from his beard and crushing it between his fingernails, “As for our problem, I will have a dream tonight, and Allah will order me to kill Khalil.”
“He will?” asked Abu, putting a hand to his chin in confusion, “But I thought the Perfect, Most Merciful Pig Allah never revealed his intentions until you had a dream.”
“No matter oaf, he is making his will known to me by making me drink strong wine on this day,” said a quickly lying Muhammad, holding up a bottle.
“Don’t you drink strong wine everyday?” asked Abu.
“Not as strong as this stuff,” replied the Prophet with a broad smile, “It has hashish oil in it; let us partake of a pair of this brothel’s women and enjoy wine together.”
As Muhammad and Abu descended into more revelry and debauchery, a troubled Khalil approached another of the Prophet’s followers, the one with rotten teeth. Telling him of his woes, he awaited the reply.
“Who cares what he does, have vulture and some wine,” said the man, tearing a leg from a roasted, maggot-ridden carcass and offering it to Khalil.
“You don’t care that Muhammad is a deranged pervert who has sex with little children?” asked Khalil, taking the leg.
“Hell no, I’m only here for the food, I was starving in the alleys of Mecca before I met Muhammad,” replied the rotten toothed man, grabbing more vulture flesh and a wine bottle.
“Oh,” answered a defeated Khalil, taking a bite from the leg and reaching for wine.
Late evening came, with Khalil and the other followers drunk and passed out in their tent.
Muhammad and Abu awoke at the brothel after midnight, rested and refreshed.
“What are we to do about Khalil?” asked Abu as they left via a side door, avoiding an encounter with the brothel’s madam, to whom they owed money.
“Leave that to me oaf,” answered the Prophet, holding up a hand, “In my dream Allah told me how to deal with him.”
Muhammad headed down the street and stealthily entered the tent of his followers, intent on taking Khalil’s life. Abu Bakr followed him through the entrance, looking about for possible witnesses.
Holding an oiled leather garrote, the smiling Prophet mercilessly strangled the sleeping Khalil, knowing in his heart that it was the will of Allah.
The helpless follower struggled defiantly as a determined Muhammad gritted his teeth and pulled the garrote tighter, crushing Khalil’s windpipe, the Prophet letting out foul gas from his posterior due to the exertion. The struggling ceased; he and Abu then quietly removed the body from the tent and carried it into the desert.
“That takes care of that problem,” declared a satisfied Muhammad as he pocketed the garrote, he and Abu making their way to his hovel so he could know his young wife Ayesha again.
“When will I know her Prophet?” inquired Abu in the lamplit hovel, looking to his daughter’s room.
“Very soon, Allah has said it, go know your wife Umm for now, oaf,” suggested Muhammad with a smile, opening the door to Ayesha’s room.

Surah 118: The Liar


Time passed, and a strengthened Muhammad and his followers left the fertile oasis. The Prophet was joined by his young wife Ayesha and her father, oaf Abu, who left the remainder of his family stranded at the oasis, his wife Umm dying of grief shortly afterward.
Not one of the party dared question the vanishing of Khalil, some fearing that they too would vanish, perhaps due to Allah’s will or worse.
Muhammad told his followers that Khalil was an evil infidel, and had fled because he had coveted Ayesha, the child looking to her husband the Prophet, she and her father knowing he was not telling the truth.
“That is not true my father, Khalil only came to tell you of the Prophet knowing me,” Ayesha whispered, she and Abu standing only a few cubits from Muhammad.
“Take care in what you utter among others child, some things are better kept to oneself,” answered Abu quietly, not half the oaf the Prophet thought he was.
The rotten toothed man was listening intently; he had watched from the shadows while a smiling Muhammad strangled Khalil, but wisely kept this knowledge to himself, vowing to flee the group at the earliest opportunity.
Abu Bakr, fulfilling the will of Allah, came unto his daughter Ayesha over several evenings in a tent at the beckoning of the Holy Prophet, oddly finding her favors more satisfying than those of his wife.
Feeling strange from the experience of knowing his own daughter, a troubled Abu sought wise Muhammad’s advice.
“It was the will of Allah,” declared the debauched Muhammad, drunk on strong wine, “Allah has also revealed it is you which will sire her firstborn in her twelfth year; her incestuous bastard child Fatimah.”
“I will?” asked Abu, incredulous that he would be siring a child by his own daughter.
“Yes,” replied the Prophet, removing his filthy robe, “But first I must satisfy my carnal urges, by indulging in her favors myself.”
Prophet Muhammad entered the tent and came unto the young Ayesha, who complained that she was sore from knowing her father three times in one day.
Striking her across the face, Muhammad admonished, “Keep your mouth shut wife and be thankful to Allah that only I and your father are knowing you.”
“Yes Holy Prophet,” Ayesha replied, closing her eyes and wincing in pain as Muhammad again knew her.
Arriving in Medina the following week, the Muslims found friends in this city, delighting in drunken revelry and the favors of veiled, tempting harlots with dark eyes.
A lecherous Muhammad, Ayesha and his brother in law Abu took up residence at a fine brothel, the Prophet and the oaf sampling the offerings over many weeks, finding that Medina had the finest of all harlots in the land.
Many residents of Medina found that Islam was a faith that appealed to them, Allah’s unalterable will moving the people, they abandoning their staid ways, joining with Prophet Muhammad in idleness, licentious revelry and drunkenness.
Abu later visited the Prophet in his tent, informing him of dreadful news that Medina was host to a band of Jews.
“Jews you say, the people of the book,” answered Muhammad, “They are bitter enemies of Allah and Islam; we will not suffer such people to live in our midst.”
“But there are 40 score or more of them in the city Prophet, do the warriors of Allah have the numbers to defeat them?” asked Abu.
“Of course oaf,” declared the evil Muhammad, “We shall wait until the dark of night, prowling by stealth, and then cut their throats as they slumber; Allah has willed it.”
Listening in the shadows, the rotten toothed man determined it was time for him to flee. Regardless of the free food, he wanted no part of a group of vicious, skulking cowards who would slaughter people as they slept.
Allah’s will was fulfilled on the next night, 40 score Jews meeting their end at the hands of the deranged, murderous pedophile Muhammad and his obedient Muslims.

Surah 119: The Thief


A fortnight passed, with many of the remaining people of Medina embracing Islam, and others fleeing for their lives, with the exception of a wealthy merchant named Sabri and his family.
Sabri vexed the followers with his words that Prophet Muhammad was little more than a drunken liar, murderer, and wanton sexual pervert; a wicked, lascivious monster and pedophile who kept the company of prostitutes, drunks and the slothful.
In another dream, the Holy Prophet learned that the vexing merchant had to be silenced, and that he had been chosen by Allah to murder him.
Telling Abu of his dream, he and Abu plotted the murder of Sabri the merchant. After enjoying strong wine together, they headed to his home on a dark late evening, let in by a lovely servant girl.
Muhammad and the oaf Abu observed the opulence of his residence; Sabri dressed in a fine silk robe with a silk turban, seven rings of gold and silver on his fingers.
His wife and the lovely servant girl brought food and a carafe of wine for her husband, they disdainfully looking upon the filthy, debauched Prophet and his henchman Abu.
“Why will you not submit to Islam, it is the will of Allah,” declared the evil Muhammad, looking to Sabri, looking for the chance to end his life.
“The will of Allah my ass, you Muhammad are a murderous debauched lecher and raper of children. Your loathsome followers feed on the rancid flesh of vermin instead of fine pork roasts, and defile all that they touch,” declared a disgusted Sabri, noting that the Prophet was drunk, dressed in a filthy tattered robe, with his unkempt hair and long beard matted with dirt.
“I consume the flesh of vermin too, Great Allah is a Holy, Merciful Pig, it is not halal to dine on the sacred flesh of his younger brothers,” said Muhammad with a finger in the air, Abu nodding in agreement.
“No, it is you who are a pig, you deranged cretin possessed of a vile demon,” retorted Sabri, looking upon the Prophet with hatred in his eyes.
“Those who do not submit to the will of Allah will suffer dire consequences,” threatened Abu, looking about for anyone who would dare stop them. Observing only two women in the house, he smiled, knowing that the will of Allah was about to be fulfilled.
Sabri paused, staring at the Prophet and Abu in contempt, hoping he could in some way persuade them to leave the city, noting that business had fallen off to practically nothing since the arrival of the Muslims.
“Look, if I give you money, will you and yours flee Medina and never return?” asked Sabri with folded hands, hoping he could encourage them to leave with a payment of fine gold.
“I can’t leave,” declared a smiling Muhammad, “I am serving Great Allah, the Most Merciful Pig.”
Sabri, confused for a moment, replied, “But I thought Allah was the moon goddess of Mecca.”
“Whatever,” retorted a shrugging, uncaring Muhammad while picking his nose, he knowing that Allah didn’t exist anyway.
“You are destroying Medina with your vile harlotry and wicked ways!” exclaimed Sabri.
The Prophet laughed, and replied, “Indeed not, Allah is guiding my hand in this and all my actions, providing me and my followers with what we desire: food, fine drink and the company of willing sirens, like your lovely servant girl back there.”
“My servant girl is betrothed to a good man in Mecca, you will not speak ill of her, nor will you covet her favors,” declared Sabri, noting Muhammad leering through an open door, ogling the girl and his wife.
“I will do as I wish,” retorted the evil Muhammad with another laugh, reaching into his tattered, filthy robe and producing the garrote, “I covet the favors of your servant girl, and will take her to my bed for a concubine on this night. Those such as you will not stop the will of Allah or his Messenger.”
Abu rose while the Prophet was speaking and smote Sabri upon the face with a closed fist, knocking the silk turban from his head. Muhammad descended upon him like a viper, pulling the garrote tightly around his throat, strangling him in his chair while his wife and servant girl screamed.
“Be silent women, it is the will of Allah!” Muhammad yelled through gritted teeth as he took the life of Sabri. Oaf Abu moved into the room and beat them into submission while a struggling Sabri kicked the wine carafe from the table, it shattering on the floor.
Sabri’s life vanquished, Prophet Muhammad exhaled loudly and let the lifeless body tumble to the floor.
The trembling women remained silent as Abu returned to the Prophet with them.
“Where is your money?” asked a greedy Abu of Sabri’s wife.
“A box of gold and silver is in our bedroom,” answered his tearful wife, almost fainting from Abu’s foul breath.
“I’ll get it,” volunteered a smiling Muhammad, pulling the garrote from the body, “Get the rings from his fingers oaf.”
The Prophet returned with a box of glittering coins, pleased that Allah had provided such bounty for his followers.
“I can’t get the last ring off,” complained Abu, having pocketed six others.
“Cut off his finger to get it, and take his robe and turban too,” ordered Muhammad, determined not to leave one valuable item in the house.
Abu obeyed, reaching for a knife on the table, slicing off the finger and pulling the ring from it.
Arriving at the brothel, the Prophet celebrated his good fortune by knowing Sabri’s wife and the servant girl, annulling the widow’s marriage and the girl’s betrothal in the eyes of Allah.
Later that evening Abu was given Sabri’s widow for a concubine, as he had grown weary of Ayesha’s favors, also needing an able slave to cook and serve him.
Having to beat her before he knew her, Abu thanked Allah and Muhammad for the welcome gift of Sabri’s wife.

Surah 120: The Hypocrite


More time passed, with some of Muhammad’s followers finding the Prophet’s actions in Medina going against everything he had preached in Mecca, seeing him as Khalil, the rotten toothed man, and the merchant Sabri had seen him: an evil, debauched rapist, pedophile, liar, and murderer.
These and other apostate followers were quickly slaughtered as infidels, fulfilling the will of Allah; a smiling Muhammad strangling many of them as they slept.
Even Abu began to think that Muhammad’s wanton depravity may have been going too far when he encountered him in a tent knowing several young Jewish boys that had been taken captive.
“Prophet, some of the followers are complaining that you are denying them participation in the bounty given us by Allah, and that you are also practicing strange acts that Allah has forbidden to others,” related Abu, frowning at the displeasing thought of Muhammad knowing little boys.
“They want some of the gold, right oaf?” asked a drunken Muhammad, dressed in Sabri’s silk robe and turban, seven rings of gold and silver upon his greasy fingers, the fine garb growing filthier with each passing day.
“That, and some of them would also like to have some of the girls and boys for concubines,” answered Abu.
“They cannot have the little boys, Allah has given them to me for my carnal pleasure,” declared the lascivious Prophet, “As for the little girls, give them to the followers as wives, so that their carnal desires can be sated; it is the will of Allah.”
“Others say that you don’t practice what you have preached,” added a fidgeting Abu, hoping not to arouse Muhammad’s maniacal wrath.
“I’m only the messenger, Allah’s revelations don’t apply to me,” retorted Muhammad, releasing a tearful Jewish boy from his carnal embrace.
“What about me?” asked Abu.
“They don’t apply to you either oaf; would you like a lovely little boy for your carnal pleasure?” slurred the depraved sodomite Muhammad, lustfully leering at another boy he had chosen next to debauch.
“No, I find not that boys appeal to me,” answered Abu quietly, though he was a lecherous pedophile and incestuous pervert, he had no desire to sodomize little boys.
“Suit yourself oaf, more for me to enjoy,” answered the Prophet with a chuckle, undressing another captive boy, returning to his lecherous pederasty as Abu left the tent.
The city of Medina had been taken completely by the conquering Muslims, they reveling in their murderous victory over the infidels and Jews.
In another dream, it was revealed to Muhammad by Allah that they were to attack and conquer the city of Mecca. They were to subdue it and convert the inhabitants there to Islam, after which the Prophet was to take a pagan shrine called the Kaaba and defile it in the name of Allah.
“In Mecca there is glittering plunder, fine gold to steal, and many women to be taken for concubines,” declared the Prophet, “Allah has said to have faith in him and we will not fail; are you with me, warriors for Islam?”
The devoted followers answered, shouting in unison: There is no god but Allah the Pig, and Muhammad is his prophet!”
“We will need weapons to defeat them,” Abu observed, looking to the Holy Prophet.
“Easily done oaf,” replied an unconcerned Muhammad, ordering several henchmen to plunder the city of metal so weapons could be quickly fashioned.
Bronze implements were seized from every home; plowshares were heated and beaten into fine scimitars for the devoted followers.
As his followers labored over hot forges, Muhammad gave a sermon, declaring that vengeance, blood and death would rain down upon Mecca in the name of Allah.
The work completed over several days, a feast was held by the warriors of Islam to further strengthen them for the long journey; the flesh of rats, snakes, vultures and jackals gracing their tables. The hungry Prophet had a willing siren prepare his favorite of all dishes, fat dung beetles boiled in seasoned vulture broth.
“We should give Allah our thanks for the bounty he has provided,” declared Muhammad, seated at the head of his table beside Abu, crushing the hard shell of a dung beetle between his filthy brown teeth.
All bowed their heads in prayer, thanking Allah for the food he had provided.
“Would you like to enjoy a tasty dung beetle oaf?” asked the Prophet, turning to his brother in law, offering one to him.
“No thanks,” replied a nauseated Abu, choking down a plateful of greasy rat flesh.
Washing the unseemly morsels down with strong wine, Muhammad and his followers filled their bellies with the bitter flesh of vermin and then enjoyed the welcome favors of tempting, veiled harlots with dark eyes.
The Muslims, their women and their captives set out for Mecca on the following week, determined to exact Allah’s revenge on the people who dwelt there.
“There are many able men in Mecca, much more than we have,” observed Abu, realizing their numbers were wanting when compared to the teeming hordes of infidels occupying Mecca.
“Allah will watch over us oaf,” replied Muhammad, a sharp scimitar on his hip, he unsure as to what the outcome would be, but keeping this from the others and preparing for the worst.
“There aren’t enough of us Prophet – how will we win?” asked Abu with his arms in the air, looking at their limited numbers, no more than 50 score of able men in the service of Allah.
“Great Allah has said it, they in Mecca will embrace Islam or die for resisting his will,” the vengeful Prophet declared as Medina disappeared behind them in the distance.
A thoughtful Abu wondered why Allah would wish his followers to attack a fortified city where they were outnumbered, and also as to why Allah would have chosen a debauched murderer and licentious pervert for his Prophet.
“Oh well, it is the will of Allah,” agreed a sardonic Abu, much too committed to the deranged Prophet and Islam to back out, checking for the scimitar on his hip.

Surah 121: The Coward


Returning to the oasis to gather strength before attacking Mecca, Muhammad and his followers again feasted on the bitter flesh of vermin and partook of the favors of eager women, the depraved Prophet coming unto the veiled, bare breasted Nubian harlot Sheba.
Oaf Abu learned that his wife Umm had died, Muhammad stating to him over strong wine that it was Allah’s will.
A grieving Abu came unto his new wife, the widow of Sabri, and also knew his daughter Ayesha, fulfilling the will of Allah the Pig.
The Holy Prophet also lusted for Abu’s bride, demanding that he be permitted to lay with her again.
A shrugging Abu handed her over, an angry Muhammad having to beat the stiff-necked infidel woman once again before he knew her.
“You evil murderous beast!” she screamed in tears as Muhammad was knowing her, “May the gods of my fathers destroy you and all you have wrought!”
“How dare you attempt to curse me or Allah,” grunted the Prophet as he reached orgasm, his fetid breath causing her to heave, “Take care woman, or I will expose you as the sorceress you are, giving you over to be stoned by my devoted followers.”
“Better to be dead than to endure your vile attentions again,” Abu’s wife retorted as the Prophet rose from her bed.
“Bitch,” Muhammad muttered as he left Abu’s tent, adjusting his filthy silk turban.
Leaving the oasis on the third day, the devoted Muslims resumed their journey to Mecca, Abu still troubled about their limited numbers and telling the Holy Prophet of his doubts.
“Don’t worry oaf, we will remain behind while the first wave of our brothers besiege and subdue the infidels in Mecca,” Muhammad declared in a low tone of voice, Ayesha looking up to him and frowning.
“Do you have a problem with that wife?” asked Muhammad, strangely controlling his compulsion to beat her for daring to disagree with Allah’s unalterable will.
Ayesha remained silent and looked to the ground, Abu answering, “I thought we would lead them in battle.”
“No, we are to remain behind and observe the followers take the city, it is the will of Allah,” replied Muhammad, he filled with doubts and preferring to watch from afar, as the strong hashish he had eaten in Medina had worn off long ago.
Arriving outside the city walls under cover of night, the Muslims prepared for battle in the only way they knew: skulking by stealth and murdering defenseless people while they slept.
As a full moon rose, a vanguard of devoted followers scaled the city walls, only to be discovered and cut down by the defenders of Mecca.
“Attack in the name of Allah!” shouted Muhammad while retreating to a bluff with Abu, his wives and several trusted followers, the Meccans opening the city gates to meet the glorious warriors of Allah in battle.
Seeing the Holy Prophet on the bluff by moonlight, this sight strengthened the attacking Muslims.
“The battle is not going very well,” observed Abu as the moon rose higher, watching the Muslim army being wiped out.
“Yes, Allah is displeased that our faith was not strong enough,” replied a strangely detached Muhammad, staring from the bluff at the carnage outside the walls of Mecca.
“That, or we didn’t have enough men, I told you,” retorted Abu, watching several followers being hacked to death by the defenders.
“That is possible oaf,” admitted Muhammad, Abu frowning at the reply.
“What do you plan to do to save your followers Prophet?” asked Ayesha.
“Nothing, it is Allah’s will,” replied Muhammad with a shrug, still watching the battle.
Abu’s frown grew into anger as he watched a smiling Muhammad delight in the butchery of his followers.
“You’ve lost at least 30 score since the moon rose, do you intend to stay until we are slaughtered too?” asked Abu’s wife.
“How dare you speak to me unless spoken to!” exclaimed the Prophet, preparing to smite her across the face.
“My good wife Fahimah makes a wise observation,” declared Abu, using her given name for the first time, grasping Muhammad’s forearm, preventing him from striking the widow.
Pulling away from Abu, the Prophet paused and replied, “It’s time for us to leave oaf, we shall retreat to the oasis to pray and fast.”
A defeated Muhammad and his trusted followers left the bluff and headed back toward the oasis in the moonlight. Looking over his shoulder, the Prophet feared that vengeful Meccans might pursue them.
“Let us make haste,” declared Muhammad, fearing for his life.
Several days passed as they retreated from Mecca, the remaining band of Muslims at last pausing for needed rest and making a camp in the desert.
The captive Fahimah had grown to respect her new husband Abu, as he had prevented the Holy Prophet from striking her outside the walls of Mecca. Making him a meal of jackal flesh soup, she presented it to him in his tent.
“Thank you woman,” Abu replied, taking an earthenware bowl and strong wine, she nodding and leaving him to eat.
As Abu was eating, a stir rose in the camp: a lone survivor of the battle having at last caught up to the followers. Putting down his bowl, he left the tent to find the survivor admonishing Muhammad.
“You coward,” he gasped, “You left us to die, have you no faith in your visions, or are they only lies coming from your vile mouth?”
The Prophet, drunk, answered, “I had a dream after the battle, it was Allah’s will that we were defeated, as it was his will that you survived. We lost because our faith in Allah was not strong enough.”
“You lied, telling us of easy plunder and women; there weren’t enough of us to take Mecca, 50 score died outside the gates for nothing!” the man exclaimed.
“No matter, have dung beetles and strong wine to renew your strength,” slurred Muhammad, picking fleas from his beard and flinging them into a small fire at his side.
The man, much too exhausted to argue further, gratefully took a plate of boiled dung beetles and a bottle of wine, trudging off from the deranged Prophet in disgust.
A shocked Abu observed this from the shadows and retreated to his tent. Such knowledge set heavy upon him, he meditating privately on the events.
Finishing his meal, he called for his wife Fahimah, she appearing before him.
I would hear your words wife on this matter: Muhammad preaches Islam, yet he does not follow the words of Allah.”
“He is your Prophet, you have sworn to serve him and Allah, my words are those of an infidel,” she answered respectfully.
“Still I would hear them, for there is wisdom in what you utter,” Abu replied.
Fahimah, still fearful of her brutal husband, yet bound by her personal honor to obey, told him of her thoughts on the Prophet and his actions.
“I care not what god he worships, but this demon in man’s guise is not a prophet of a clean desert god,” she began.
Abu looked at her as she continued, “He forces his followers to consume the flesh of vermin, delighting in their disgust. I truly believe him to be so perverted as to rape an infant - he has others carry out his murderous work while he has no courage to fight himself: you should draw a knife across your daughter Ayesha’s throat and my own to save us from the corruption of this man.”
Abu, oaf that he was, looked at her silently as she urged him to destroy the demon Prophet Muhammad, her wise words much harder to ignore than the screechings of his deceased wife Umm.  

25 Mar 2006 @ 10:43 by Hussain @ : Bismillah! Muhammad!
Those words above are a revelation!  

24 Apr 2006 @ 05:27 by Woody Dat @ : Wow, that took some time and hate.
Now I am an American and a christian, I love my country and my God. But who ever wrote that last comment had way too much time on their hands and hate in there heart. What the world needs to understand about freedom of speach is that it is a lot like the internet you have to sort out all the worthless rambilings of people who either just want to start an uproar or have no idea what is going on to find the things people are saying that make it worth all the trouble digging for. I can understand people beeing upset about something that they belive stongly in but to kill innocent people because of it, I think that is what we don't understand. We all need to take advice from that old chidrens saying "sticks and stones may braek my bones but name will never hurt me" and let a higher power make the call on punishment.  

29 Apr 2006 @ 14:47 by mishka @ : cyrus
why did you leave the forum. is it bec no one believe in your bullshit anymore?! not that i ever did.  

14 May 2006 @ 04:29 by Pete @ : Religion sucks
I agree with the english guy way up top. Religion to me is bollocks and man created god in his own image to suit him and make him(and her)feel better about death. Is your god and your heaven a denial of death? If god is real and can stop all the worlds troubles then, and only then do I give him, her or it any credit for anything. If god isn't real then all the fuss is for nothing and we all just rot in the ground when we die.  

17 May 2006 @ 06:26 by dave @ : mohamed
fuck the koran  

22 May 2006 @ 04:49 by MUHAMMAD @ : LOST VERSES OF THE KORAN-SURAHS 122-130
Surah 122: Muhammad the Merciless


Abu Bakr, though he had listened to the wise words of his good wife Fahimah, found the prospects of strong wine, glittering plunder and wanton sexual pleasure outweighed her foreboding admonitions; he advising her to remain silent with regard to the Holy Prophet. For this request, he agreed that he would do his best to keep the depraved Muhammad from coming unto her.
The widow bowed her head respectfully, obeying her brutal husband.
Staying for a time to renew their strength at the oasis, Muhammad announced over a fine evening meal that they would return to Medina and take it in the name of Allah.
“That will be easy, considering we slaughtered everyone there who resisted us,” slurred a drunken Abu, he, the Prophet and their closest followers sitting at a long table. Veiled, tempting sirens with bare breasts served the bounty Allah had provided: the flesh of vultures, vipers, and lizards gracing the table.
“Good point oaf,” the deranged Muhammad agreed, seven rings of gold and silver on his fingers, his mouth stuffed with roast vulture. He swallowed, belched loudly and added, “Allah revealed to me in a dream that Medina will be our base, and from there we shall send brave warriors out to capture and recruit new followers.”
“More men will be needed after the debacle at Mecca,” replied Abu, looking to their limited numbers, choking down the bitter flesh of a fat, boiled viper with another gulp of wine.
The evil Prophet hid a smile at the sight of Abu’s nausea; watching from the head of the table in delight as his devoted followers dined on the flesh of vermin. “No matter about the others, they are dead and gone, it was the will of Allah,” declared an uncaring Muhammad, spitting a shard of fractured vulture bone to the table. Wiping greasy hands on his filthy silk robe, he grabbed a wine bottle and took a deep drink from it. “My belly still rumbles, bring tasty dung beetles to sate my gnawing hunger,” he ordered to a siren nearest him.
The lone survivor of the battle of Mecca, a swarthy Bedouin named Hamal, sat at the table, eating from an earthenware bowl of lizard soup, seasoned with ground peppercorns, onions and the juices of crushed scorpions. Having considered his low standing amongst his fellow Muslims for calling the Prophet a lying coward to his face, he wished to make amends by making himself useful to Muhammad. In return, he hoped the murderous Prophet would allow him to live, so he, like his debauched leader, would have the chance to kill, rape and plunder in the name of Pig Allah, the moon god.
Their meal finished, a lustful, drunken Muhammad initiated another sex orgy with the sirens, the warriors of Islam delighting in the licentious revelry: the debauched Prophet entering the tent of the Nubian harlot Sheba, relieving his carnal urges while held in her willing arms.
“Oh great Prophet, if it is the will of Allah, will you take me as one of your beloved wives to Medina?” asked Sheba, looking up to him with seductive, dark eyes as he continued to know her.
“Sure, as my young bride Ayesha often grows sore from my constant attentions,” grunted Muhammad, reaching orgasm for a third time, finding her the most satisfying harlot he had ever encountered.
“She is only six, most wait until they bleed first,” replied Sheba, the Prophet looking at her and frowning, both knowing that he was little more than a brutal, licentious pedophile who delighted in the rape of little girls and boys. Rising from the bed and closing his robe, he left her tent, adjusting his filthy silk turban.
Later, when others at the oasis were asleep or passed out from drunkenness, Muhammad, oaf Abu, and Hamal the Bedouin sat by a small fire, discussing plans for the recruitment of new followers. As the fire died down the Holy Prophet rose and walked into the shadows, releasing foul, pungent gas from his posterior while Abu and the Bedouin continued speaking.
“When will we be leaving for Medina?” asked Hamal, looking forward to visiting a comely harlot he had met there.
“Very soon, but you will not leave with us,” answered Abu, just as Muhammad leapt upon the hapless Bedouin with an oiled garrote. Pulling it tight around his throat with all his strength, he gritted his teeth and strangled the infidel to death, crushing his windpipe.
“That is what one gets for insulting Allah’s messenger,” declared the wicked Muhammad with a smile, allowing the corpse to drop to the ground. He pulled the garrote from Hamal’s throat and pocketed it in his filthy silk robe. Looking to Abu, he said, “Get over here and help me with the body oaf.”
Abu rose, the Prophet and his henchman carrying the remains of Hamal into the desert.
On the next day, Abu’s young nephew Abdullah appeared from his mother’s hovel at the border of the oasis. The adolescent appeared more of a man than a boy, his face having a short beard. Troubled, he asked his uncle as to why he had left his aunt Umm to die of grief, and why he had permitted the Holy Prophet to know him and his little cousin Ayesha. Not aware of Abu’s incestuous relationship with his daughter, he awaited the answer.
“My daughter Ayesha is his child bride, given unto him by Gabriel on high; alas, Muhammad is also a pederast, it was the will of Allah for him to know you,” a shrugging Abu replied, revolted at the thought of pederasty, not looking his nephew in the eyes.
“The will of Allah? Then Allah is an evil, insidious demon possessed of lust and caprice!” exclaimed Abdullah. “Your Prophet is a depraved sodomite sent from the depths of hell: grasping my crotch, he raped me after having a seizure, holding me down and declaring it was the will of Pig Allah!”
“I don’t know what to say, my nephew,” replied Abu, looking to the ground, knowing that Muhammad had truly hurt a beloved member of his family by raping him.
“I do,” said an angry Abdullah, tears welling in his eyes as he glared at his uncle, “I say be gone forever from our oasis, you, your demonic Prophet, your vile brethren, and never call me your nephew again!” Wiping away tears, he turned and trudged off, a saddened Abu watching as the young man disappeared into a date grove.
A fortnight passed; the Muslims returning to the nearly deserted city of Medina. The faithful inhabitants celebrated at the sight of Prophet Muhammad, joyously greeting his arrival with a spectacle of drunken revelry and lasciviousness. To the Prophet’s pleasure, he found the brothel was still open, the madam thankful to Allah that the brave warriors of Islam had returned unto their midst.
After indulging in the favors of comely, dark-eyed harlots for several days, Muhammad, his wives Ayesha and Sheba, together with his entourage of slavewomen and little Jewish boys, moved into the merchant Sabri’s house. Oaf Abu and wife Fahimah accompanied them, as the residence had more than enough room.
The body of Sabri, murdered by the Holy Prophet months earlier, lay rotting on the floor, a tearful Fahimah looking to the desiccated remains of her loving husband.
“Lamentations over infidels is forbidden, it is the will of Allah that such die for resisting him,” declared Muhammad, picking fat fleas from his beard and crushing them between his fingernails. Ordering other followers to remove the remains, they dragged the body from the house and dumped it in the street for all to see. Looking down, the Prophet smirked and kicked Sabri’s mummified severed finger through the open door.
“You soulless brigand, I am an infidel, why don’t you just kill me and put me out of my misery?” asked a defiant Fahimah, tears of grief wetting her cheeks.
The Holy Prophet raised an arm to smite her, Abu stepping between them. “You will not strike my good wife Fahimah, nor will you touch her in any other fashion from this point forward; there is much wisdom in her utterances regarding the likes of you,” warned Abu, staring at the Prophet with anger in his eyes.
Muhammad lowered his arm. Hiding his fear, he frowned at his muscular henchman. “Of course oaf,” he muttered, quickly turning and leaving the house. “Bastard,” he spat in defeat, heading to the brothel for the favors of harlots, strong wine, and hashish.
“Thank you husband, for what you have said and done for me,” said Fahimah.
“Don’t thank me, thank your gods,” replied a confused Abu, sweat on his brow, looking to the doorway that the madman Muhammad had passed through.
Charged by the words of the Holy Prophet, vanguards of devoted followers moved across the land surrounding Medina, converting scores to Islam in the name of Allah the Pig. Along the way, the warriors helped themselves to women, children and glittering plunder: slaughtering, torturing, raping and robbing as caravans, villages, towns and cities fell before them. Returning to Medina with fresh converts, the warriors rested, joining with their fellow Muslims in idleness, debauchery, licentious revelry and drunkenness.
Fearful of being exposed as the coward he was, Muhammad was determined to prove he was an able leader, chosen by Allah the moon god. Together with trusted group of followers, he, Abu and a band of vicious cutthroats entered a peaceful village near Medina in the middle of the night. A guard, subdued and beaten by a pair of the Prophet’s followers, asked Muhammad, “We have done you no harm stranger, what do you want here?”
“We want everything,” answered a smiling Muhammad. Pulling out his garrote, he strangled the defeated infidel to death, fulfilling the will of Allah.
Allah the Pig smiled upon the devoted followers; over time the Muslim army was strengthened to near invincibility, their numbers in Medina now amounting to over 300 score.

Surah 123: The Demon


Growing restless at Medina, an insane Muhammad was determined exact his revenge upon the inhabitants of Mecca, so he could capture the city in the name of Islam and defile the Kaaba in the name of Pig Allah.
At his urging, followers created more weapons, seizing metal wherever it could be found, using captured infidels as slave laborers for the hot forges. Under the watchful eyes of brutal Muslim slavedrivers, cooking pots, utensils, plowshares and pruning hooks were heated and beaten into deadly scimitars for the warriors of Islam; those who refused to serve the warriors slaughtered, their bodies thrown into the fires of the forges.
The once peaceful Medina had been transformed from a prosperous trading center into a filthy lair of vicious freebooters, brigands, and evil cutthroats, hungry for plunder and blood. Allied with the warriors of Islam were assorted perverts: depraved pedophiles, brutal rapists, and lascivious sodomites: comprising a revolting den of amoral, lustful, lecherous monsters who gleefully destroyed entire towns, taking the virtue of women, girls and boys at will.
The Muslims were led by the corrupting force, Prophet Muhammad, chief pervert of Islam, otherwise known amongst his fellows as Abu al-Qasim Muhammad Ibn Abd Allah Ibn Abd al-Muttalib Ibn Hashim.
The Holy Prophet, knowing from his vivid, epileptic dreams that his actions were the will of Allah, returned to his licentious pederasty, knowing freshly captured Jewish boys during bouts of drunkenness. At other times, strong wine having caused vile fits of vomiting in the street just outside Sabri’s house, he amused himself by eating strong hashish, molesting his young wife Ayesha afterward.
Seeing the depravity of Muhammad, the Nubian siren Sheba felt shunned, left out of the wanton debauchery, watching in horror at his perverted, drunken orgies with little boys from a dark corner of Sabri’s house.
“You’re hurting me Prophet, I bleed!” cried a very young Jewish boy of eight as Muhammad knew him, his ample girth having ruptured the boy’s posterior.
“Vile Jew, how dare you question the will of Allah’s messenger,” retorted an angry Muhammad, slitting the boy’s throat to the spine with a sharp knife. He threw the body to the tiled floor of Sabri’s house; his filthy erection covered in blood and feces as it slipped from the murdered victim.
Shedding painful tears while viewing the murderous sodomy, the Nubian siren also witnessed the Prophet’s brutal fits of pedophilia with young Ayesha.
“You ingratious bitch, how dare you cry out as I indulge in your comely favors, my knowing you is the will of Allah!” grunted Muhammad, slapping the child, finally achieving orgasm within her.
“Yes Holy Prophet,” replied Ayesha in tears, having turned seven that day, wiping blood from her lower lip.
“These terrible actions of Muhammad are not the work of Allah, nor any other god; they are truly the evil ministrations of a vile and sadistic demon,” Sheba said to herself, withdrawing into the shadows.
Troubled, she approached Fahimah one evening and told her of her woes.
“You made your bed painted harlot, lay in it,” the widow retorted while cooking a pot of viper stew, not wanting to arouse the Prophet’s maniacal wrath. The house had grown filthy on the orders of Muhammad, it revealed to him in a dream that cleaning it was not the will of Allah.
“But what of you, how did you come to be here in this hell on Earth?” asked Sheba, surrounded by iridescent flies, filth and the butchered bones of vermin, not knowing how the upright woman had become part of a band of depraved brigands led by a demented, demon possessed maniac.
“Your disgusting Prophet murdered my good husband Sabri in this very house in which you stand. He took our money, raped me and my maidservant, and then gave me to his brother in law Abu as his wife.”
“As for Muhammad being my Prophet, I cannot be sure from what I have seen him do; how can you live such a life among such after what you’ve been through?”
“I am but a prisoner of uncivilized brutes: I cannot live such a life, except at the whim of my gods, perhaps one day I will simply die and be released from this dreadful fate,” said the widow, just as Abu walked in.
“I need food and wine,” the oaf announced, the harlot withdrawing from the room.
“Yes,” replied Fahimah, presenting him with a bottle and a warm earthenware bowl filled with snake flesh cooked in seasoned jackal broth.
“Viper stew – I can’t stand this shit!” exclaimed Abu, revolted at the boiled head of a snake floating in the bowl, an eye staring at him, surrounded by sliced onions, bits of scorpion shells, and withered parsnips.
“We have no more jackal, vulture, or rat meat, Muhammad has eaten it all, even to their rotting carcasses and the nauseating entrails; that and other vermin is all your Prophet will allow us to consume. I respectfully confess that I long for a fine pork roast to dine upon,” said his wife.
“That’s the truth; what did the Nubian harlot want here?” asked a resigned Abu, pulling the snakehead out and gnawing at it, pulling an occasional scale from his mouth with a thumb. Shuddering for a moment, he spat a tough, chewy eyeball to the floor.
“She came to complain to me about Muhammad shunning her comely favors, while knowing little Jewish boys,” answered Fahimah. “She also said the Prophet is knowing your young daughter too much; I have seen it, from the way she walks, she has grown very sore from his attentions.”
“Yes, he should come unto Ayesha only after a week or so has passed, as do I; for it is Allah’s will for me to know my daughter. Regarding the little boys, I fear that the Prophet’s wanton pederasty is both strange and revolting to me,” Abu replied, throwing the skull to the floor in utter disgust and drinking jackal broth from the bowl.
“Revolting; a filthy bitch in the throes of heat is not as vile as that depraved sodomite: he is an evil, lecherous, perverted freak who lusts after the flesh of men,” his wife declared, not telling of her revulsion to her incestuous husband knowing his daughter in their bed on many occasions.
“They’re not men, they are infidels, according to the Prophet, such does not matter in the eyes of Allah.”
“Flesh protrudes from their loins; as does it from the vile crotch of Muhammad. My gods frown upon such perverse acts, condemning those who engage in those practices to eternal damnation.”
“They do not yet spit their seed on the ground, as Onan did, they are nothing,” replied Abu, taking a gulp from the bottle.
“That has nothing to do with what I am telling you husband,” said the wise Fahimah, “Your Prophet knows little boys; it is wrong in the eyes of my gods: he is little more than a queer.”
Oaf Abu stared at her for a moment, knowing in his heart that she was correct. He returned to his meal, peeling snakeskin from a chunk of viper, the fat carcasses of boiled maggots infesting the meat. Looking at the maggots, a frowning Abu spat, “What the hell, I’m hungry,” stuffing the half-rotted flesh in his mouth and chasing it with wine.
After several weeks of preparation, the rebuilt Muslim army was ready to attack Mecca. Hordes of bloodthirsty Saracens were armed with sharp scimitars of brass and iron, their bellies filled and bodies nourished with the bitter flesh of vermin.
A drunken Muhammad, standing on the upper porch of Sabri’s house, gave a sermon, telling a crowd of devoted followers that pain, death and destruction would be visited upon the inhabitants of Mecca for resisting the will of Allah and his Prophet.
As Muhammad smiled in delight, the crowd shouted to the heavens in unison: “There is no god but Allah the Pig, and Muhammad is his Prophet!”
“He said that the last time,” Ayesha observed, Fahimah stifling a laugh while they stood only a few cubits from the vile Prophet.
Looking to her, Abu sighed. “Yes he did, but take care in what you utter child, for Muhammad has a great, malevolent power not of this world.”
“That’s because he is the Devil incarnate; may the gods of my fathers destroy that queer murderous bastard and all he has wrought,” retorted Fahimah.
“Do you beg for him to strike you down?” asked a frowning Abu.
“Perhaps I do, for death is better than this existence,” she answered bitterly, looking to the demon in man’s guise calling itself Muhammad, while feeling the life of an innocent unborn in her womb.

Surah 124: The Defiled


Another fortnight passed, during which Muhammad and his devoted followers delighted in the vilest of debaucheries; the drunken Prophet leaving the bodies of several murdered Jewish boys in a dark annex of Sabri’s house; their posteriors ruptured and throats slit by him. The Nubian siren Sheba watched from the shadows, shedding tears for the slaughtered children.
Oaf Abu Bakr, fulfilling the will of Allah, again came unto his daughter Ayesha, she having recovered from the Prophet’s advances; a lecherous Muhammad occupied with knowing the remaining Jewish boys.
“Why is it that you know me, my father?” asked a satisfied Ayesha, sitting up on the bed after Abu had withdrawn from her and closed his robe.
“It is the will of Allah,” answered the oaf, looking upon her nude body. “Cover yourself from my sight child, have you no decency?”
“Do you not find me comely, or is the stiffness of your nether member only for my stepmother Fahimah?” asked Ayesha coyly, smiling and reclining before him.
“I do find you most comely, that is why you must cover yourself,” Abu ordered, finding his incestuous lust for her troubling.
“Yes my father,” replied an obedient Ayesha, pulling a sheet over herself.
Crossing the desert, the Muslim army left Medina and returned to the oasis to refresh themselves and rest among the palms, the inhabitants there vexed at the presence of the Holy Prophet. A defiant Mecca stood to the south, Muhammad knowing that with the help of Allah, the army of Islam would prevail over the infidels.
Abu learned that his nephew Abdullah had committed suicide by climbing a tall date palm and hurling himself from it, his broken body buried in the desert by his grieving father and brothers.
Troubled, he approached Muhammad and told him of his grief.
“Waste not time mourning over him oaf, it was the will of Allah,” said Muhammad blithely with a wave of a hand, drunk in his tent, dining on a bowl of boiled dung beetles smothered in thick vulture gravy.
The Nubian harlot Sheba looked to Abu in silence, sympathy in her eyes, recalling the Prophet’s licentious pederasty, having watched from in the shadows as he murdered those who dared to cry out in pain at his advances.
“That, or he couldn’t live with the idea of you having known him,” replied a frowning Abu, staring at the floor of the tent, sadness on his countenance.
“My knowing of him was a gift: how dare you question the will of Allah or his messenger!” exclaimed Muhammad, finishing his meal of dung beetles, his filthy fingers covered in cold vulture gravy.
“I don’t question the will of Allah, what I do question is the unrelenting stiffness of your nether member and your licentious pederasty, knowing little boys in his sight,” retorted Abu. “Are there not captive women in our camp that could satisfy your carnal urges?”
“Perhaps there are, but none are as tight as the lovely orifice of a little Jewish boy,” answered a smiling Muhammad.
“You are a hypocrite; you have repeatedly denied others of your inclination the ability to know them, stating that such actions are a sin in the eyes of Pig Allah,” said Abu boldly, revolted at the thought of pederasty.
Harlot Sheba silently wiped tears from her cheeks, she mourning for the young victims of Muhammad’s insatiable homosexual depravity.
“Hypocrite, no, for Allah’s revelations do not apply to me, nor do they to you,” answered the Prophet with another smile, wiping hands on his filthy silk robe. “You, oaf, along with myself, have sanction from Allah to do whatever we wish.”
“We do?”
“Yes,” answered Muhammad, pausing to squeeze foul matter from a swollen boil on his forehead, “It runs the gamut, from taking women in our beds, or lovely boys in our tents, or even to the knowing of pretty animals, indulging in their comely favors as it suits us.”
“The favors of beasts!” exclaimed Abu, “I always thought you were a twisted bastard, but the likes of us knowing animals?”
“A camel can be most attractive if one drinks enough wine: just look at their pretty eyes,” replied Muhammad, raising a bottle and drinking deeply from it.
“Such is bestiality!” exclaimed Abu in utter revulsion.
“No oaf, it is love; for Allah is love, and his Prophet is love: I spread Allah’s love by knowing those I desire; indulging in the favors of comely women, lovely boys, and pretty animals.”
“You are a depraved raper of young boys and a perverted molester of lowly beasts!” retorted Abu, looking the drunken Prophet in the eyes.
“Be that as it may, it is the will of Allah,” answered an uncaring Muhammad, growing visibly aroused at the thought of knowing pretty animals, a small, malnourished female camel with light brown eyes just outside his tent crossing his utterly deranged mind.
Pulling open his filthy robe, he reached for his erection and began masturbating, the harlot turning away in disgust.
“Have you no respect or decency, even in the eyes of your wives and fellows?” asked Abu, turning his head and covering his eyes.
“You needn’t look unless you desire to pleasure Allah’s Prophet, such is the will of him should you find my organ enticing.”
“I’m not queer, your offer is revolting!” exclaimed Abu, turning and heading from him.
“Very well, be gone with you, ugh, oaf,” grunted Muhammad, reaching orgasm as he finished the sentence, spitting his seed upon the ground and his filthy silk robe.
Leaving the tent, Abu chanced upon another of the Prophet’s followers, a dull-witted, nearly toothless man with a missing eye, known by his fellows as Sadi.
“Duh, where is the Prophet?” asked a staggering Sadi, he very drunk.
“He’s playing with himself in his tent over a camel, do you want to watch?” spat a disgusted Abu, pushing him out of the way.
Sadi tumbled to the ground, watching Abu trudge off into the darkness.
Returning to his tent, a troubled Abu told Fahimah of his terse words with Muhammad, and that the Holy Prophet was not only a pederaster, but also a vile practitioner of bestiality, knowing pretty animals in the sight of Allah.
“I told you he was little more than a depraved devil in man’s guise,” she replied, “Only such could lust for the loins of a beast. Muhammad is an evil madman desiring death for all who oppose him; you, husband, will come to blows with him, if not only to save your very life.”
“Do we have any food?” asked Abu, not commenting on her wise words.
“Yes, with the help of your daughter and the Nubian harlot, I caught and baked several rats for us this afternoon.”
“It beats viper flesh, bring some to me wife, with a full bottle,” ordered a frowning Abu, hoping that drunkenness would ease his contemptuous feelings for the Holy Prophet.

Surah 125: Mecca


Having renewed their strength at the oasis, the vengeful warriors of Islam marched into the desert, heading south toward Mecca, killing any in their path that dared to resist. Along the way they recruited more converts: augmenting by several score a revolting cadre of amoral pirates, vicious brigands, twisted perverts, depraved pedophiles and lascivious sodomites, all hungry for glittering plunder, rivers of blood, and helpless victims.
Muhammad and his entourage followed, a string of captive Jewish boys in chains, having been thoroughly sodomised, trudged along with them, some forced to carry the Holy Prophet in an ornate litter. Fahimah and the Nubian siren Sheba, together with Muhammad’s child wife Ayesha, were carried in another litter behind the Prophet.
“What are we to do about that insane monster in man’s guise?” asked Sheba, her voice low in fear of the Prophet.
“Nothing harlot, we are but women, and haven’t the strength to subdue such as him,” whispered Fahimah, her belly showing she was with child, fearful the Jewish boys carrying them might hear and tell the evil Prophet of their words.
Oaf Abu, dismissing his utter disgust at the Holy Prophet’s revolting pederasty and bestiality for the moment, conversed with Muhammad in their litter as they were carried across the desolate waste.
“You told the followers that great Allah dwells in heaven; who else dwells there with him in his abode on high?” asked Abu, wiping sweat from his brow.
“His brothers,” answered the Prophet, drunk on strong wine. Covered in sweat, scratching at biting fleas in an armpit, he pulled his filthy, sweat stained silk turban from his head, revealing a head of lice ridden, matted hair drenched in perspiration. Frowning for a moment, he grunted, releasing foul gas from his posterior.
“What are their names?” asked a gagging Abu, pulling a curtain open for fresh air.
Muhammad, his head reeling from drunkenness, making up the story as he went along, replied, “Let’s see, Allah, Holiest of all Pigs, rules the heavens and the earth, sitting on his golden and bejeweled throne. His younger brothers, Hogallah the fat, Swineallah the wise, Boarallah the cyclops, and Porkallah the whiskered stand at his side, singing his praises for eternity.”
“You’re telling me heaven is filled with pigs?”
“Yes,” answered Muhammad plainly, his mind much too deranged to realise his utterances made no sense at all.
“If that is so, what use would they have for the likes of us or our worship, considering we are not pigs?” asked Abu, confused and doubtful of the words he was hearing.
“Upon our ascension to heaven, we too will become holy, purified Hogs, welcomed into paradise by Allah,” declared Muhammad, crushing a flea between his fingernails. “Once there, 72 devoted, eternally virgin Swinettes will tend our every desire, feeding us forever with ample morsels in golden troughs to sate our piggish gluttony. To slake our thirst, they will bring us welcome drink from rivers of wine, and will give us their comely favors upon demand.”
“Oh,” said Abu, wondering if reincarnation into a ravenous, depraved hog upon death was something worth looking forward to.
Later, the warriors of Islam came upon a laden caravan of peaceful merchants on a trade road, heading with their wares toward Mecca. Skulking behind sand dunes, Muhammad and his devoted followers watched, laying in wait as the caravan approached.
“What will we do?” asked Abu, looking to the deranged Prophet.
“Allah told me in a dream that we will take the caravan, kill the merchants who own it, and then use the caravan to enter Mecca and subdue the infidels,” answered Muhammad, delighted at their stumbling upon easy victims in the middle of the desert.
“That should prove easy with the numbers we have,” replied a smiling Abu, looking forward to glittering plunder and the favors of comely women.
Without warning, scimitars in hand, the army of Islam burst from the dunes like locusts, vicious cutthroats and pirates slaughtering the merchants and taking their goods in the name of Pig Allah.
A young and comely water boy with green eyes, cringing in the corner of a wagon, was spared for the carnal pleasure of the lascivious Prophet, as were several dark-eyed maidens betrothed to men in Mecca. Abu Bakr, on orders of Muhammad, took their virtue, their betrothals annulled in the eyes of Allah as he knew them one by one.
His lust satisfied, Abu handed the captives over to other trusted followers, who were then debauched by hundreds of lascivious brigands in the name of Islam. Their carnal needs sated; the warriors left the broken bodies in the wake of the caravan.
Sitting behind the reins, Muhammad, henchman Abu at his side, headed to Mecca, followed by the vicious and depraved Muslim army. Approaching the city on the following morning, vanguards were sent forth to the gates, they telling the Meccans that merchant Fateen had arrived with goods to sell.
“Good friend Fateen, welcome again to our city,” said a smiling guard, unknowingly opening the gates for the vicious warriors of Islam.
Many laden camels and wagons entered Mecca while the bulk of the Muslim army hid in the distance, the doomed inhabitants celebrating the arrival of the caravan. A Meccan elder of many years walked up to Muhammad and Abu, asking where the merchant was.
“Good Fateen, he was delayed and will arrive later,” Muhammad answered, reaching for his oiled garrote.
“You look familiar friend,” replied the elder, hiding his disgust at Muhammad’s slovenly appearance, clad in his filthy silk robe and turban; his beard matted and neck caked with dirt.
“Do I?” asked the evil Prophet, he and Abu stepping from the wagon. Followers hidden in other wagons reached for their weapons and prepared to strike.
“Yes,” said the man.
“I should look familiar; but I am not your friend: I am your enemy Muhammad,” retorted the Prophet as he pulled the garrote, terror filling the man’s eyes.
Abu Bakr moved quickly and punched the hapless elder in the face with all his strength, breaking his neck from the blow as Muhammad yelled, “Attack my followers, attack and kill the infidels in the name of Allah!” Bloodthirsty saracens burst forth, sharp scimitars in hand, gleefully slicing off arms, legs, and heads of the stunned Meccans.
“Good work oaf,” the Prophet declared, looking to the body of the vanquished elder as hordes of his devoted followers came though the open gates.
An orgy of death swept over Mecca as the Muslim army slaughtered and raped in the name of Allah. Stepping over the bodies of vanquished infidels, Muhammad made his way to the Kaaba, home of the gods. Standing on the roof, oaf Abu at his side, the smiling Prophet delighted at the unremitting carnage, watching as his devoted, bloodthirsty followers murdered his enemies.
“Allah is smiling upon us on this day,” said Muhammad in the bright sunlight, watching as his licentious minions, having defeated the infidels, repeatedly raped the wives of the Meccans before him.
“He is indeed,” replied a pleased Abu, sounds of revelry and voices of screaming women filling the air.
While greedy freebooters looted the Meccan treasury in the name of Allah, an orgy of drunken lasciviousness occurred as other Muslims celebrated their victory. Standing on the Kaaba during the festivities, Muhammad gave a sermon, declaring to his followers that they could do anything they wished to survivors who refused to embrace Islam. A cadre of lustful perverts and eager pedophiles smiled in delight at the Prophet’s welcome words, leaving the Kaaba at once in search of victims.
Several days passed, the cries of the defiled diminishing as the army of Islam, having grown tired from the orgy, passed out from drunkenness. Hundreds of infidels lay dead in the streets, covered in flies, having died in the most horrific of ways, the women having been raped to death, the bodies of debauched children having fallen into the hands of murderous perverts and pedophiles.
In late afternoon, the Holy Prophet, recovered from a marathon bout of drunken pederasty, roused a snoring Abu, telling him of his plans for the day. “We must enter and cleanse the Kaaba in the name of Allah, as it is his, and only his, house,” he declared while scratching his posterior, an obedient Abu forcing the locked door down.
Over a thousand gold, silver and alabaster idols of the gods of Mecca were contained therein; each sitting in ornate nooks prepared for them.
“Obscene infidels!” exclaimed an angered Muhammad, “There is no god but Allah the Pig!”
“What shall we do Prophet?” asked the oaf, awaiting further orders.
“We must destroy them!” declared Muhammad, the Holy Prophet and Abu exhausting themselves smashing the pagan idols over the next hours.
A breathless Abu looked about, every idol in the Kaaba having been destroyed. Searching in vain for the idol of a pig, he feared that he or Muhammad might have accidentally destroyed Allah in their frenzy of destruction. Composing himself, he asked, “Where is Allah?”
“Here he is oaf,” said a smiling Muhammad, pointing to a large black stone sitting on the floor of the Kaaba, surrounded by the remains of destroyed idols.
“Allah is a rock, I thought you said he was a pig,” said Abu, looking to the insane Prophet.
“Allah’s spirit dwells within this stone, when one touches it, they can feel his awesome power.”
“It feels like a cold rock to me,” replied a frowning Abu after having placed hands upon it. All this effort and carnage for a shapeless boulder? he thought, staring at Muhammad as though he were a madman.

Surah 126: The God


Having taken Mecca, the Muslims continued to defile and subdue the city in the name of Pig Allah, the inhabitants surviving the carnage now slaves of the army of Islam.
Bodies were left to rot in the streets on orders of the Holy Prophet, the stench of bloating corpses filling the air while he and a group of his followers raided wine cellars for strong drink.
Their new slaves forced to butcher entire herds of goats and flocks of birds for a welcome feast; Muhammad gave no thought to leaving some to replenish what they would consume. Some wise followers told him of this, to whom he replied, “No matter, Allah will provide ample food for us.”
“Provide what, the bitter flesh of jackals and vultures?” asked one, the wicked Prophet pleased at the thought of them consuming vermin for sustenance.
As Fahimah, Ayesha, the Nubian harlot, and slaves prepared the feast, a drunken Muhammad gave another sermon, standing before the Kaaba with a wine bottle in his hand. “Did I not tell you in Medina that we would have victory over the infidels?” he slurred, as scores of celebrating followers shouted “Yes!”
Others shouted, “There is no god but Allah the Pig, and Muhammad is his Prophet!”
A few, overcome in their devotion, knelt and began to worship the Prophet, he smiling upon them and welcoming their fawning obsequiousness.
Standing in the distance, Abu lowered his eyes, disdaining the worship of such a vile and perverted man. “Debauched hypocrite, he only desires the worship of himself,” he spat angrily, trudging off.
Fahimah and the Nubian harlot, together with Ayesha, watched in horror as Muhammad was placed in the ornate litter by his most devoted followers. Marching around the defiled Kaaba, the followers shouted repeatedly, “There are no gods but Allah the Pig, and Muhammad his Prophet!” Seven times they circled the Kaaba carrying the smiling Prophet, while slaves heaped nearby tables high with the bounty of Allah.
Delighted in his new role, the god Muhammad was brought to a long table in his litter.
Taking a seat at the head of the table, worshipping followers fed him wine, dates, and the tender meat of roasted goat. Wolfing down the food like a glutton, in his feeding frenzy Muhammad bit off the fingertip of an elderly follower named Abbud, who, in his fanatical insanity, felt honoured to be eaten by the Holy Prophet.
Looking to his blood covered finger, the nail crushed; Abbud smiled broadly and shouted, “Allahu Akbar!”
Other worshipful followers saw the crescent shape of the wound and Abbud’s devotion to Muhammad; raising him to their shoulders, they paraded around the table, shouting, “Abbud is the chosen of the Prophet!”
Muhammad smiled broadly, morsels of goat flesh hanging between his filthy brown teeth.
In celebration of Muhammad’s ascension to godhood, after the feast the drunken Prophet and his worshippers had another sex orgy; a wanton spectacle of debauchery and lasciviousness: whoring, pederasty, paedophilia, even bestiality and the knowing of other men, the followers committing every perverse act imaginable in the name of Allah. Enthusiastic shouts of “Allahu Akbar! and Allahu Al Kabeer!” were heard amongst the celebrants as the revelry continued into the early evening.
Abu Bakr, disgusted that Muhammad would accept and encourage the worship of himself, later approached him and asked, “How can you, of all people, place yourself before Allah in our victory over the infidels, being worshipped in blasphemy as a god before your followers?”
“I am a god, and so are you,” replied Muhammad with a smile, quickly making a story up, “I had a dream, and Allah said we are to be worshipped by the followers as his representatives on earth.”
Abu looked to the Prophet sternly and retorted, “If you want to be worshipped as a god, that is your business, but leave me out of it.”
“Very well, if you don’t want to be a god, that’s fine with me; as for myself, I do.”
“Do you actually think you are a god?” asked a somber Abu, not believing the words he was hearing.
“No, but it does do much for the ego,” said Muhammad while picking his nose, “Be gone with you, go cleave unto your daughter, oaf.”
Having nothing better to do, Abu again came unto his daughter Ayesha in the bedroom of a fine house he had claimed for himself. She, relaxing in satisfaction after he withdrew from her, said coyly, “That is the third time you have known me in a fortnight, do you shun my stepmother’s comely favors?”
“Cover yourself in my presence daughter, Fahimah is with child, it is not wise to touch such when they show.”
“You did not wish me covered earlier, will you make me with child, my father?” asked a smiling Ayesha, not covering her nudity.
“Yes, Allah has willed it, but not until your twelfth year.”
“Then you had better get used to me being naked in front of you,” said Ayesha, Abu turning his head in shame and leaving.

Surah 127: The Vile


More time passed. It having been revealed by Pig Allah that he was a god on earth, Prophet Muhammad, convinced he was invincible, descended further into the bowels of wanton debauchery, gluttony, drunkenness and lasciviousness, a sorrowful Abu Bakr repenting that he had ever laid eyes on him.
The bountiful herds of goats and flocks of birds exterminated and eaten by the ravenous Muslims, the insane Muhammad ordered all adult camels butchered and eaten in another feast, the Holy Prophet saving the young females for his carnal pleasure.
Once the camels were consumed, they and the deranged Prophet returned to dining on the bitter flesh of vermin. A reclining Muhammad, wearing his filthy silk turban, seven rings of gold and silver on his greasy fingers, was fed vulture flesh, dates and boiled dung beetles by his devoted followers, each competing to be the most favored of the Prophet.
Between orgies, the smashed idols were cleared from the Kaaba; the remains stripped of their jewels, gold and silver before being dumped outside the city gates. The precious stones and metal were claimed by god Muhammad, and hoarded by him in the Kaaba. Availing himself of the opportunity, he and his entourage of fawning sycophants took up residence there; drunken, lustful orgies with comely harlots and perverse lasciviousness among their fellows being the order of the day.
Each morning, Muhammad, rising from his drunken stupor, would give a sermon to his devoted followers, telling them of the wonders of afterlife in Paradise with Pig Allah and his brothers. They listened to fantastic tales of golden troughs filled with food, rivers of wine, and comely, virgin Swinettes that would sate their every desire; the Prophet at times hallucinating on hashish, moving about the floor on all fours, grunting and snorting like a pig before them. Reverent murmurs of “Allahu Akbar” would be heard among the followers as the Prophet continued in his peroration.
Defiling the Kaaba further in the name of Allah, all manner of filth and the bones of butchered animals littered the grounds. Each day, worshipful followers marched around it seven times, carrying the wicked Prophet in his ornate litter, shouting, “There are no gods but Allah the Pig, and Muhammad his Prophet!”
Growing weary of the comely favors of harlot Sheba, child wife Ayesha, and little Jewish boys, Muhammad had begun to covet little Arab boys, leering at them and their animals from his litter as they passed the Kaaba. The stiff necked infidel woman, Fahimah, now very much with child, was also an object of the Prophet’s twisted lust, she having been denied to him over the last months by oaf Abu, who was also shunned by the Holy Prophet as of late.
Overcome by his pederastic desire for little Arab boys, on a bright afternoon a drunken Muhammad cornered one in the Kaaba, tearing off his loincloth and debauching his posterior on the black stone of Allah, while his closest followers drank wine and watched in enjoyment.
“But I submitted to Islam great Prophet, how could you do this to me?” said the boy, tears in his eyes after Muhammad released him from his carnal embrace.
“Quite easily, I have given you the honey of Allah’s love from my member, you should thank me,” said the satisfied Prophet, closing his tattered, filthy silk robe as the terrified boy ran from the Kaaba.
Later that day, coveting the favors of pretty animals, Muhammad, his deranged mind filled with depravity, led a young female camel into the Kaaba, presenting it to his followers. Therein he embraced and knew the animal, finding it one of the most pleasing beasts he had ever encountered.
“Life is good,” declared a smiling Muhammad as the defiled camel walked from the Kaaba, spending the evening hours being worshipped by his followers and drinking wine until he passed out from drunkenness.
Having heard woeful tales of the Prophet’s latest perversions from a debauched Arab boy named Saaid, Abu, walking past rotted skeletons of Meccan infidels on an early evening, consulted his wife Fahimah after entering his house. Respectful of her brutal husband, she had prepared him a warm earthenware bowl of rat soup, seasoned with peppercorns, onions, and withered parsnips.
“The Prophet’s actions are revolting, they go against everything he ever preached at the oasis,” he began while eating, his daughter Ayesha and the Nubian harlot also there.
“Prophet?” retorted Fahimah, “I told you from the beginning that he is no prophet my husband, he is a wicked devil in the guise of man, perverse to the core, devoted to chaos and the lusts of the flesh.”
“I know,” replied Abu, “But many of the followers revere him as a god on earth, we haven’t the numbers to subdue such a horde.”
“There are other able bodied men in Mecca that feel as you do,” said the wise Fahimah in a whisper, “The freebooters and their ilk have no use for Muhammad or his god, they are only seeking further plunder, strong wine and the favors of willing women.”
“But their numbers are not as great as Muhammad’s fanatical worshippers,” mumbled a frowning Abu, his mouth full.
“No, but they are seasoned fighters, whereas Muhammad’s followers are little more than addled fools, drunks and the slothful.”
“Be that as it may, their numbers are many,” countered Abu, drinking rat broth from the bowl.
“Then do as he has done my husband: kill him while he sleeps,” urged Fahimah, her eyes filled with hatred for Muhammad.
“A real man does not lay in wait to kill those who slumber,” said a frowning Abu, repenting of the time when he had done so on orders of the Prophet.
“He does!” exclaimed Fahimah.
“Regardless, you will have to kill the Prophet my father, before he kills us,” declared Ayesha, Abu shocked at such words coming from a child.
“She is right,” agreed Sheba, “Muhammad shuns us, preferring his worshippers and the favors of little Arab boys; not a fortnight will pass before he declares us infidels, turning us over to the faithful to be killed.”
“Bring me a bottle,” ordered Abu after finishing his meal, needing strong wine to help him decide what to do about the evil Muhammad.

Surah 128: The Evil


A fortnight passed. Muhammad, the unquenchable fires of insanity burning without respite in his deranged mind, continued in his licentious debauchment of little Arab boys, dozens of them running from the Kaaba, rubbing their sore posteriors. After having another dream, his most worshipful fellows were permitted by him to join in his wanton pederasty and the knowing of pretty animals within the Holy Kaaba.
The Prophet, now a god on earth, resorted to practicing all manners of lascivious revelry in the name of Allah: in his lust he had come to desire a captured manslave of Mecca named Zaid, having leered at him lovingly on several occasions while carried in his litter around the Kaaba.
His closest followers delighting in homosexual pederasty and vile bestiality with comely camels, Muhammad had taken to courting the manslave Zaid, while still coveting the favors of Abu’s wife Fahimah, she now very much with child.
Zaid Ibn Haritha of Mecca was a handsome young Muslim male of good build, bronze skin, fine hair and light brown eyes, given by Pig Allah the disposition of a woman, who found Muhammad’s keen interest inviting.
In the Kaaba they consummated their perverted desire, the Holy Prophet knowing him on the black stone of Allah, wantonly fornicating with Zaid within where he spoke and in his posterior: comely Zaid responding forthwith to the Prophet afterwards.
“Holy Prophet, please give me another example of Allah’s love, in my posterior,” said a smiling Zaid while he lay prostrate before the Prophet of Allah and spread his cheeks, looking to Muhammad.
The drunken Prophet, reclining, his filthy silk robe open, stared at his flaccid, soiled member, covered in the feces of Zaid. Scratching his flea infested testicles, he replied blithely, “All in time my good friend Zaid, Allah above says that I must rest and replenish my ample loins before enjoying your favors again.”
Manslave Zaid, though he loved the Prophet Muhammad Ibn Abdullah deeply, turned his face from the Prophet’s fetid breath, the crushed shells of dung beetles and rotting entrails of vultures wedged between his filthy brown teeth.
Over time, details of god Muhammad’s latest perversions were heard by his wives Sheba and Ayesha, both shedding tears at the thought of Prophet shunning their favors for the likes of a comely man.
“I told you he was queer,” scolded Fahimah sternly, standing in the house of Abu Bakr while his wives lamented their actions, “Muhammad is a licentious sodomite who lusts in his loins for the favors of men: those such as him are the spawn of a devil!”
“But he said he loved me when he first knew me in my father’s house,” cried Ayesha, wiping tears from her face, harlot Sheba weeping in the background.
“And you, child Ayesha, my stepdaughter, now know your own father in bed, may my gods forgive both you and he!” retorted Fahimah.
Ayesha withdrew and hid herself in shame from the vengeful and righteous Fahimah.
“Muhammad said he loved me when he knew me in the brothel at the oasis,” sobbed the Nubian siren, feeling sorrow for herself and no other.
“My heart pumps piss for you harlot; your perverted Prophet Muhammad said he loved me too, while raping me, as my good husband Sabri lay dead on the floor of my house!” thundered an angry Fahimah, turning from Sheba. Disgusted with her lot in life, she occupied herself stirring a boiling cauldron filled with the bitter flesh of rats and vipers, seasoned with salt, peppercorns and onions.
While the Prophet continued in his lascivious debauchery, factions of war were growing in the city of Mecca, Abu Bakr and the freebooters on one side, Muhammad and his fanatical sycophants on the other.
Zaid, now Muhammad’s closest confederate and sole male sex partner, approached the Prophet and told him of his woes, confessing, “Abu Bakr told me on this eve that you are little more than a licentious sodomite and revolting zoophile; he rues the day that he ever laid eyes on you.”
“Be that as it may, he is an infidel oaf who has spurned the favors of Allah, such will be damned; no need to worry over the likes of him,” replied Muhammad with the wave of a hand, taking Zaid in his filthy, carbuncle covered arms and kissing him deeply on the mouth.
Later, Abu Bakr met in secrecy with Zubair, leader of the freebooters, and his swarthy lieutenant Jabbar, cautiously listening to their words regarding the Holy Prophet as they drank wine together in Zubair’s tent.
“We’re only here for the money Abu; we couldn’t care less about Muhammad or his silly gods, do as you like with him,” said an uncaring Zubair, tossing an empty bottle to the floor of his tent. A deep, red battle scar on the left side of his face marked the vicious Arab freebooter from his forehead to chin: wearing leather armor, heavy boots and bronze helmets with visors, he and his fellows appeared more like ancient Roman gladiators than contemporary Arabian pirates.
“God, not gods,” admonished Abu sternly, “Great Allah is our God, only upon his Holy Name do I approach you, for Prophet Muhammad his sinned in the eyes of Allah, may peace be upon him!”
“Whatever you say friend, who cares,” replied Zubair, drunk on strong wine, he and his fellows only interested in lucre.
“Allah is your god Muslim, not ours,” added Jabbar.
“Then who is your god?” asked a confused Abu, looking to the amoral freebooters.
“Gold!” exclaimed Zubair and Jabbar in unison, Zubair adding, “And nothing but, excepting perhaps for wine and harlots,” the pair laughing loudly.
“You forgot silver and jewels, friend Zubair,” said a drunken Jabbar, pointing to him, choking on his laughter and coughing for a moment, spitting yellow phlegm upon the ground.
“No I didn’t, I’m just more interested in wine and harlots!” exclaimed Zubair, sticking out his tongue, laughing and slapping his friend Jabbar on the back, a thoughtful Abu looking to them in astonishment.
Infidels, they know not the love of Allah, thought Abu, looking to the floor of Zubair’s tent. “You and yours do not believe in Allah?” he asked.
“Yours is a god of swine, it is said he’ll turn us into pigs if we believe in him,” answered Jabbar, “Who wants to become an oinking pig upon death, eating slop for eternity from a golden trough; I’d rather be in hell as a man, fighting, or not exist at all.”
“No friends, our Prophet Muhammad is wrong on that point,” admonished Abu, a true believer, he forging the first pillar of Islam. “Great Allah is not a pig nor a porcine creature, he is God on high, apart from us all, the maker of mankind and all that exists, everywhere. May he smile on us from above in grace; peace be upon Allah our God, and, woe unto him, his perverted and twisted Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him as well.”
Zubair, spitting on the floor of his tent, snickered at Abu’s words. “Muhammad is your prophet, not mine,” he retorted. Grabbing another bottle, he took a gulp of wine.
“If your words are so Abu, then Allah is crazier than Muhammad ever was,” added a smirking Jabbar.
“You do not believe in Allah?” again asked Abu, frowning at their irreverent blasphemy.
“No, and I never will; you’re an ass like Muhammad, and I don’t give a damn about your worthless god, would you care to debate me on that?” asked a drunken, angered Zubair, pulling his scimitar.
“I meant no offence friends,” answered Abu, holding up hands.
“Are you a coward?” asked Zubair. He lowered his weapon, looking Abu in the eyes, the vicious, greedy freebooter wanting to kill him for simply existing.
“No, I am not, and I grant you licence to believe in whatever you wish to believe,” replied a brave Abu with hands out, staring him back, Zubair’s narrowed, dark brown eyes staring into his.
“Why would you do that Abu, those who grant freedom of choice to adversaries are usually cowards,” retorted Jabbar.
“Because a man’s belief is in his heart only; I, as a man, cannot force you to bow to the will of Allah; I can only hope that he will move you to fulfill his wishes.”
“Yeah, whatever you say, just don’t try to make us worship your stupid god,” replied Zubair, grudgingly respecting Abu for having faced him down.
“Granted, so, are you with me, should I choose to depose Muhammad?”
Zubair and Jabbar looked at each other for a moment, then turned to Abu.
“Sure, we’re with you,” answered Zubair, Jabbar nodding in agreement.
“Then it’s settled,” replied Abu, “You will back me, should I decide to turn against Muhammad.”
“Why not,” said Zubair, “Just make certain we have ample gold when we leave Mecca, otherwise I’ll cut your throat and watch you die, gasping for your very breath.”
“Done,” said a determined Abu, shaking Zubair’s hand.

Surah 129: The Vanquished


The following afternoon, god Muhammad woke from his drunken stupor, comely manslave Zaid snoring away beside him. Hungry, he reached for a bowl of boiled dung beetles. Brushing iridescent flies from his meal, he began stuffing cold, vulture gravy covered dung beetles in his mouth like a famished glutton, chasing the morsels with gulps of strong wine.
Having convulsed from a seizure near dawn, he had then dreamt a vivid dream of knowing Abu’s wife Fahimah again. In the mood for a woman’s touch, the Prophet sat on the black stone and consumed a copious quantity of hashish; delighting in the hallucinations Pig Allah gave him when he ate the Holy drug.
The hashish taking effect quickly, a wildly hallucinating Muhammad wandered from the Kaaba, shielding his eyes from the brilliant afternoon sun, intent on securing the favors of Fahimah. Abu Bakr was meeting with the freebooters outside the walls of Mecca when the Holy Prophet arrived at his house, forcing the door open with his foot.
“What do you want here, you debauched demon in man’s guise?” asked a disgusted Fahimah, looking upon the filthy and diseased Muhammad, his white silk robe and turban having turned brown from over a year’s worth of dirt, dust and sweat.
“I want your favors, infidel bitch,” slurred the intoxicated Prophet, leering at her, Ayesha and Sheba watching him in fear.
Terror filled Fahimah’s eyes as the evil Muhammad started toward her: grabbing a pot of boiling vipers; she threw them at him, the pot and scalding broth hitting the Prophet in his face, knocking the filthy silk turban from his head.
“That’s what I like, a feisty woman,” declared a smiling Muhammad, wiping broth and a large patch of blistered skin from his forehead, feeling no pain from the scalding broth. Grabbing Fahimah while his wives screamed, he beat and then knew her on the floor of Abu’s house.
“But I am with child!” cried Fahimah, Muhammad grunting as he reached orgasm, “Be silent, it is the will of Allah for me to know you on this day!” Much too engrossed with abusing the stiff-necked infidel woman, Muhammad hadn’t noticed that his child bride Ayesha had run from the house, intent on finding her father.
Infidel Fahimah sufficiently violated, the evil Muhammad leered at a cringing Sheba for a moment, then staggered from the house, heading back to the Kaaba.
Happening upon Abu at Zubair’s tent, Ayesha, out of breath, said, “Come quickly my father, the Holy Prophet is at your house, knowing my stepmother.”
“The depraved bastard, I’ll kill him!” exclaimed Abu, rising and running from Zubair’s tent, Ayesha falling to the ground as he passed.
Freebooter Zubair put down a wine bottle and rose from his seat. He helped the child to her feet, and called for his lieutenant Jabbar.
“What’s going on?” asked Jabbar, walking up.
“Grab your scimitar and tell the others that we’re heading to Abu’s,” ordered a frowning Zubair, anticipating the worst.
Abu arrived at his house, entering as Sheba was kneeling over the fallen Fahimah, she growing weak and bleeding profusely, the lower pa  

7 Jun 2006 @ 16:03 by asli @ : people begin to loose their manhood
people all around the world criticize islam without knowing nothing about it at, who are swearing at islam ,you are afraid of loosing your own religion you fear bec if you read quran once you will see how god values you no matter what you do. ı am a muslim but never hate christians or jewish people. that is not because ı love them but it s an order of my day all of people return to right door but for some of them it will be too late.wake up please. ı love u  

16 Jun 2006 @ 17:20 by muhammed @ : fuck of danmark & fuck you
christians are all gags
fuck your cros  

1 Jul 2006 @ 21:50 by Henry @ : Islam = war
If you look at all the major conflicts(wars) going on in the world all but a couple involve Islam...Can you explain that?  

17 Jul 2006 @ 10:08 by albert @ : Mohammed
why is mohammed's homosexuality never discussed???????  

19 Jul 2006 @ 01:25 by Jack the Lad @ : Muslim Cult
Listen up you stupid cult of Islam bitches. Despite what your father taught you, incest is NOT normal. Even for Muslims. Now fuck off and stick a Fatwah up your arse while you're doing it.  

1 Sep 2006 @ 01:03 by NotPrejudicedAgainstIslam @ : Not Prejudiced Against Islam
"Please respect our prophet Mohammed"


To respect Mohammed we would have to give up on our own concepts of morality and adapt a morality that is completely contrary to the continuing existence of the human race!

Mohammed was a MAN who called HIMSELF a terrorist and was proud of it! After all, he was doing GODS WORK.

Mohammed's god (NOT MY GOD!) gave Mohammed his blessing to, rob and murder people, assassinate people, enslave people, rape women, sadistically torture people, massacre people, force people to behave as he wished them to behave, spewed forth hatred and violence, and acted in ways that we in the Western world would just call immoral, insane and more to the point, CRIMINAL!


For them Mohammed is the (nearly) perfect man! They ignore Mohammed "the criminally insane" in favor of Mohammed "the most blessed of god"! The moslems who do know about Mohammed the criminally insane, excuse his behavior as ordained by god because he was fighting "gods war"! He was, after all, just behaving like everyone else at that time was behaving, AND he had GODS BLESSING!

Jesus, Buddha, Lao Tzu, Confucius and Zarathru DID NOT act in this way! Only Mohammed behaved in such a BARBARIC fashion!

Jesus, Buddha, Lao Tzu, Confucius and Zarathru had their religions spread only through word of mouth and love! Mohammed's religion spread only through war and through FEAR!

The ONLY way to avoid being turned into a slave was to become a moslem! In fact the ONLY way to avoid the wrath of islam was to become moslem and to NEVER question islam! If you disagreed with islam, you were put to death! If you chose to leave islam, YOU WERE PUT TO DEATH (and you STILL are)! Mohammed spread "HIS" religion through war. His followers got rich on the spoils of war and on the slavery that went along with the spoils. (Oh-oh, I feel some moslem trying to quote the koran saying that there shall be no compunction of religion - grow up and get real! It was YOUR prophet that put the apostates and doubters to death!)

SORRY but this is NOT how MY GOD wants us to behave NOR any of my gods "prophets" to behave! AND NO I am NOT talking about "biblical" prophets.

For 1,400 years moslems have had to SUBMIT and have not been able to question islam. They have been trained to fight ALL who would disparage islam. They have no choice because they HAVE NO religious freedom!

WE CAN'T RESPECT "YOUR" prophet Mohammed because to pay respect to such a barbaric historical presence would be tantamount to giving up on the civilization that we have been slowly building to over the millennium.

Respect Islam, the "Religion Of Peace" that was started by an insane warlord? If moslems truly want a religion of peace they should look at Zoroaster's, Taoism, Confucianism, Buddhism or Christianity. (Christianity is NOT to be confused with the "Christian Church", and yes there IS a difference.)  

5 Sep 2006 @ 17:35 by dsada @ : asda

13 Sep 2006 @ 00:54 by Melissa Melancholetta @ : Sick of Religious Idiots
I Think its horrid that we live in a world where the freedom of expression can evoke such rubbish as that of rioting muslims...For god's sake cartoons make fun of any and everyone and thats the way it is and thats the way it should be..fuck muslims if they cant handle that..Im sorry but hey is it alright for you people to create mayhem on the world with your lame excuse of American imperialism and not alright for us to depict the facts and then relish in a bit of humour..Are we supposed to change our way of life just because you people believe it to be immoral? with it , everyone gets made fun of..what makes you so special? Honestly im getting very sick of this nonsense. Well as for American imperialism i'd rather live in a worls that promotes freedom of speech and self expression and stands for ideals that do not degrade women and life like muslims do...if thats what you people find sooo blasphemous then fuck yes im a blasphemer and proud to be far as im concerned it is not these so called immoral people that are mass murdering, its you muslims with your religious justification of violence...people dont kill people muslims kill there  

17 Sep 2006 @ 02:58 by Charles Johnson @ : Islam, Muslims and Mohammed
Islam Sucks.
Pig tastes GREAT!
Mohammed was a FAG!
You sick Muslim BASTARDS referred to my Pope as Hitler, you chicken shit Mother Fuckers!
George Bush is the man and he is taking the fight to Fuckin Islam!
When it comes to an all out Holy War there is no doubt that you backward ass, sister raping, Mother Fucking, Beard Growing, Turbin Wearing, Mass Murdering, Ass-In-The-Air 5 times a day, Hiding Behind Women, Drag Queen, Incest Infested, Shit-For-Brains, Flag Burning, Terroristic, Baby Killing, Woman Hating, Freedom Hating, Cave Dwelling, Lying, Son's-Of-Bitches will perish and fade from memory!
We Christians overcame the Romans so we should not have much of a problem with you!  

11 Oct 2006 @ 11:13 by St George @ : Onward Christian Soldiers...
The "prophet" mohammed was an idiot. The Koran is blasphemy. The mosque is a terrorist training ground.

Jesus is Lord. The Holy Bible is the word of God. The Church is a home for peace and love.  

13 Oct 2006 @ 20:21 by muslim @ : think befor u talk
for all those who said that mohammed was faik or he was seeing satan i hop that he will think a littel ,that saint peter was jeuve and he was killing the real christian (in our relegion they were muslim) then suddenly he discover after he see sonthing (satan i think if u think that mohammed see it too)tell him about his new religion
but what is the differance between the 2 satan (who come to mohamad and the other who come to peter)
1-who come to peter tell him that man can kill god and put him an a cross like a dog
2-who came to mohamad tell him that god dont die even if all critchur in the all univers want to hurt him they cant change anything of his will
3-who came to peter tell him that we can make a stone as god figure and we can worship it
4-who came to mohamed tell him what ever u think u will nerver reach to know how god look like he is the creator of all critchur and our brain cant reach him
5-who came to peter said that god is and old man who live in heaven and he need marie to bring him a child
6-who came to mohamed said that god isnt a man or anthing we know (not light not a body )our brain cant reach to know about him he is god and marie from a world of him she get pregnet and bring a man he was his prophet like mohamed we love him and respect him as we do for mohammed and god dont need a place to be in
for those who dont know that chistinaty didnt know that marie stay virgin after she give birth to jesus only after the islam say it they know it  

13 Oct 2006 @ 20:33 by muslim @ : sorry didnt say anthing out the cartoon
about the cartoon they dont mean anthing for me only they make us discover how much u hate islam and muslim and all what happen from poor muslim peapol they are controled by they covernment to make some popularity for those rooler in the muslim world
because no one know how mohammed look like we dont have a photo for him as u have a photo for ur god [and there is a big difference too mohammed he was a man like any other man but u have a pic for ur god u r very lukky :)) ]  

14 Oct 2006 @ 08:55 by muslim @ : think befor u talk
for all those who said that mohammed was faik or he was seeing satan i hop that he will think a littel ,that saint peter was jeuve and he was killing the real christian (in our relegion they were muslim) then suddenly he discover after he see sonthing (satan i think if u think that mohammed see it too)tell him about his new religion
but what is the differance between the 2 satan (who come to mohamad and the other who come to peter)
1-who come to peter tell him that man can kill god and put him an a cross like a dog
2-who came to mohamad tell him that god dont die even if all critchur in the all univers want to hurt him they cant change anything of his will and god take jesus to the first sky and no one hurt him
3-who came to peter tell him that we can make a stone as god figure and we can worship it
4-who came to mohamed tell him what ever u think u will nerver reach to know how god look like he is the creator of all critchur and our brain cant reach him
5-who came to peter said that god is and old man who live in heaven and he need marie to bring him a child
6-who came to mohamed said that god isnt a man or anthing we know (not light not a body )our brain cant reach to know about him he is god and marie from a world of him she get pregnet and bring a man he was his prophet like mohamed we love him and respect him as we do for mohammed and god dont need a place to be in
for those who dont know that chistinaty didnt know that marie stay virgin after she give birth to jesus only after the islam say it they know it  

14 Oct 2006 @ 08:57 by muslim @ : sorry for not comment about the cartoon
about the cartoon they dont mean anthing for me only they make us discover how much u hate islam and muslim and all what
happen from poor muslim peapol they are controled by they covernment to make some popularity for those rooler in the muslim
because no one know how mohammed look like we dont have a photo for him as u have a photo for ur god [and there is a big
difference too mohammed he was a man like any other man but u have a pic for ur god u r very lukky :)) ]  

15 Oct 2006 @ 11:31 by muslim @ : sorry i forget to say
in islam we dont belive that jesus has die on cross ,he say that god save him by take him to the first sky and god make another person look like jesus and that person who die on cross.that explain ur idea about he rise from dead because he wasnt dead in the first but he return to see his mother befor he go to the first sky till he will return  

25 Oct 2006 @ 11:23 by Dana @ : plzz think before doing any thing
i`m a muslim
these cartoons offence for muslims! it`s better to care about all religions!
these cartoons are bad and who draw these cartoons he didn`t know who is our prophet mohammed peace be upon him ,, he should think before he try to do these bad cartoons!! and i advice who draw these cartoons and who are with him to read about our prophet mohammed peace be upon him ,, he`s so kind ,he care about all the people both muslims and non muslims , .. please stop these cartoons ! ,, Islam religion is the best, think ! you will feel that what i`m saying is ture because what after death !! ( hell ! or paradise ) and the choice in your hand ! Thank for reading my comment =) ,  

3 Nov 2006 @ 07:56 by muslim @ : to all who think this pic mean somthing
these cartoon dont mean anything because we know that no one know how mohamad (salla allah 3alayhi wa salam)look like
sister in islam dana
do u want muslims peoples look like bulls they move somthing and we attack
if i draw a pic and i say it is ur father what will be ur response (i m sure u will say im creazy i dont know him, ur pic dont mean anything)
i think he only draw his father and his mother and sister  

14 Nov 2006 @ 06:09 by Ibrahim.Dadoun @ : About this cartoon
this is an insane idea why bother anyway i disagree and so do all of the muslim comunities this is just trying to humiliate us and all you say and everything you put into this series is not true and dont think you will get away with it We wont be quiet to this abnormal thing your trying to do. We all muslims know that no one knows how the prophet muhummad (peace be upon his soul) looks like.  

14 Nov 2006 @ 21:17 by No religion @ : religion
Religion is insanity - evidence is in the above posts.  

19 Nov 2006 @ 13:32 by I'd prefer to remain anonymous... @ : Balance? Rationality...
There is little doubt in the mind of the majority of Muslims that rioting and death threats were inappropiate ways of responding to the cartoons. However, there is also little doubt that the cartoons were completely offensive because of the commentary they were making; I must say that the writer of this article seems to have given them a very generous interpretation. The question is one of not causing offence for the sake of it and if there was a point to the cartoons could it have been made in another way?

As for the border line insane comments they are as guilty as the rioters of refusing to see the other perspective.

You do not have to agree with a religion to give it adherents respect and to treat their religion with dignity.  

20 Nov 2006 @ 08:29 by No Religion @ : Religion
Every religious book lies. It is not about God, because no one needs a frickin' book to get in touch with God or know God. It teaches people to have false ideas about God, to have false ideas about humans and life. If you look at the books as parables or nice fairy tales, wonderful, but nothing more. The original teachings have been destroyed and they're worthless pieces of garbage pretending to make people holy, to make people feel guilty for being human, for making one feel superior to another, etc. This isn't about respecting people who believe in these b.s.books. We can respect that it is their belief without having to believe the same thing they do or condone it. How 'bout that?  

21 Nov 2006 @ 14:51 by Yerr @ : No one has the right to vengeance...
Has anyone among Muslims ever thought if God or Allah, in Its infinite power ever needed anyone to fight for His sake? To rebuke the mistakes of others for His sake? To punish for Hiss sake? If in any case, anything (like these cartoons and so many other causes of Muslim unrest in defense of their religion) has been said or done that might have brought insult or disgrace or even sacrilege against anything that Islam holds sacred, can Muslims not allow Allah, himself to punish those who trespassed against Him? Who gave Muslims the right to act on their own? To kill and maim and to punish in Allah's name?! Who gave them the right to wage war and condemn peoples and nations while exclaiming it is ordained by Allah?! I see and hear Muslims in every corner of the world plunging innocent peoples into untold tortures and sufferings believing that they're doing these in Allah's name... And I believe, if there truly is a God - if Allah indeed exists, then He would be telling you, "You all scornful self-serving, self-righteous individuals who cry God is on our side, I ask you who is on Mine?!?! I in my poverty, alone without trust cries shame on you again and again for converting me into a bullet, and shooting me into men's hearts! Vengeance is mine, not yours! If it is My will those who hate me, I would love, and those who love me, I will hate and despise and cast into hell. For I alone knows what truly is in men's hearts! You shall not speak for me! You shall not carry out your will as My own! I shall choose who lives and dies and none of you shall put judgment in my mouth! For if you do, you are not with Me but against Me."  

23 Nov 2006 @ 08:55 by No religion @ : Vengeance?
God wouldn't need anything - all IS already God. God doesn't demand anything, either. It also doesn't care if you believe in God or not. However, most Muslims don't have the consciousness to even consider such notions - they've been controlled for such a LOOOONG ass time so that free thinking (free anything) is scarey oooooo.  

23 Nov 2006 @ 22:53 by Today @ : this is what religion is doing today
BAGHDAD, Iraq (Reuters) -- A wedding car decorated with ribbons and flowers was ablaze, the bloodstained street around it littered with body parts and the smell of burnt flesh hung heavy in the air.

Minutes earlier a car bomb packed with an estimated 100 kg (200 lb) of explosives had sent jagged metal ripping through afternoon shoppers in the crowded market in the Baghdad Shi'ite slum of Sadr City that is home to more than 2 million people.

It was one of a string of bombings in the district, a stronghold of Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al Sadr, that killed about 150 people and wounded 257 in the space of a few minutes and brought a country ravaged by violence ever closer to civil war.

"There were pools of blood on the street and I saw children lying dead," said Karim al-Rubaie, a news photographer, who had been in the market to buy a sink when the car exploded.


27 Nov 2006 @ 08:44 by yerr @ : Muslims - love, tolerance...
or actually hate, and arrogance...
A few days ago in the Philippines, there was one Muslim member of Congress who accidentally had her meal served in the Congress' restaurant containing noodles and sliced 'PORK'. Read on...


By Conrado de Quiros
Last updated 03:20am (Mla time) 11/27/2006

Published on page A14 of the November 27, 2006 issue of the Philippine Daily Inquirer

IN THE PAST, I'VE WRITTEN SEVERAL COLumns protesting the way Muslims, or Moros, were treated in this country. I’ve protested the times when Muslims were profiled or stereotyped and had their homes raided, particularly in the aftermath of 9/11. I’ve protested the times when the MNLF and the MILF were portrayed as bandit or terrorist elements, deserving of slaughter. I’ve protested the raiding of “pirates’ lairs” in Quiapo and elsewhere, which grinds down only the Muslim poor, who are the retail sellers, and not the Muslim and Chinese rich, who are their sources.

All of which is to say that I’ve earned my spurs here. I abhor discrimination. But I am not going to protest what happened to Lanao del Sur Rep. Faysah RPM Dumarpa at the Batasan dining lounge. In fact, I am going to protest most vehemently what she did there.

The incident, as everybody knows by now, including the istambays in my neighborhood who discussed it over Red Horse and roasted pork ears for several nights, was that Dumarpa discovered at one point that the noodles she was eating contained pork. She went ballistic and allegedly started berating a staff member of the catering outfit, Virginia Fernando-Altamirano. Not content with that, she allegedly slapped the girl in the face while hurling words upon her that you wouldn’t hear in the Koran. And still not content with that, she went back to her table, reportedly grabbed a knife and was about to attack Altamirano when her colleagues finally held her back.

Never was the phrase “fit to be tied” more apt. Dumarpa should have been.

Let me be clear. I am not inappreciative of the scale of the injury. Some years ago, I also read a newspaper account of a Muslim security guard murdering two fellows for playing a prank on him. The two mixed pork in a dish they offered him, and after he had eaten it, they told him about it to much laughter. It would be the last time they would laugh. That night, while they slept, the incensed Muslim knifed them to death.

What can one say? Devout Muslims take the proscription against pork deathly seriously—the deathly there can often be literal. There’s no arguing with religion, and to the extent that the beliefs and practices don’t harm anyone, they are to be respected.

But devoutness does not justify murder. A Muslim deliberately fed pork as a joke may not just dispatch the pranksters into the next life and be excused for it. A congresswoman accidentally fed pork may not violently abuse a presumed culprit and be excused for it. I am not a Muslim, but I believe I can say with reasonable certainty that between having a body contaminated by pork and having a mind contaminated by thoughts of mayhem, I know which crime the most compassionate Allah is more likely to forgive.

Dumarpa had a right to be furious. She had the right to complain. She had the right to demand an apology. She had no right to act like a swine.

At the very least, the demand for Christians to respect the cultural and religious sensitivities of their Muslim brothers and sisters goes with a similar demand for Muslims to respect the cultural and religious sensitivities of their Christian brothers and sisters. Dumarpa is in Metro Manila. Mistakes like that happen, and to the extent that they are honest ones, she may only ask Allah to forgive the erring for they know not what they do. A Filipino diplomat in Vietnam or Taiwan may not attack a Vietnamese or Taiwanese waiter because the waiter found a rosary on the floor and threw it among the trash.

At the very most, Dumarpa is a representative, not a warlord. There is a difference, even if her elders and betters in the House and Malacañang can’t seem to see it, too.

Which brings me to why I find her behavior reprehensible. Because she abused someone who had no power to fight back. Obviously, she would not have done that to anyone of her colleagues who might have done that to her while she was a guest in their home. The only reason Dumarpa did that to Altamirano was that she figured Altamirano was nothing more or less than one of her menials whom she could treat like a germ. If Dumarpa can do that to someone in Metro Manila, think of what she can do, and probably does, to her constituents in Lanao.

What she did to Altamirano was not an act of faith, it was an act of arrogance. It was not an expression of devoutness, it was an expression of bad breeding.

I abhor discrimination, and none more so than the discrimination by the powerful of the powerless. Or those the powerful deem powerless. I’m glad Altamirano’s outfit is defending her and has pulled out of its Batasan concession. They may not cater to swine. Altamirano was not the author of discrimination, she was the victim of it. And a most unforgivable form of discrimination, too.

Dumarpa herself does not do Muslims proud, she does them ill. Coming as her action does at a time when Muslims and Christians are struggling to build bridges amid the divisions created by Bush’s and GMA’s concept of anti-terrorism, it sucks completely. It stokes the fires of racial and religious bigotry that responsible Muslims and Christians have been trying to douse. If the sentiments expressed by the istambays in my neighborhood about Muslims are anything to go by, much of it not being fit to print, Dumarpa has set progress back by leaps and bounds.

What she did was just plain inexcusable.  

7 Dec 2006 @ 12:49 by Josephine @ : And it came to pass
So there was all this crashing and banging and explosions and fire and smoke and all that ...and a few billion years later there ws this virus that grew a bit...and a few billion years later the virus had evolved into all these 'live'things that were very different except for two or three things; they ate, they reproduced, they died. All of them. The reproduction process was much the same for most species, one had a pole and one had a hole. One species evolved and started to started to walk on two legs. And a few million years passed. The the walking species built some pyramids. Just like that. Then man created god in his own image. All over the place. Lots of different ones. And there was all this crashing and banging and explosions and fire and smoke and all that, for ages and ages and ages, cause they all reckoned they had made their god first.  

8 Dec 2006 @ 04:59 by Mark @ : A Dare
Dare you to publish these pics with your name and address.....but come on.....I mean you said it yourself.....its just a pic right....

And if you don't then your just soft.


13 Feb 2007 @ 13:02 by truth @ : mohammed the sick fuck
mohamed had sex with a 9 year old this a man that anyone should base there lifes on. HELLO WAKE UP FOR GOD SAKE!THE MAN WAS A SICK SICK you think GOD would use this perv to spread his word!!!!!!!  

15 Feb 2007 @ 07:16 by Ace @ : Muhamed Cartoons Etc.
To hell with the murderous and largely illiterate muslims. May they burn right along with the morons that stupidly try to deflect the evil of muslims on to America and Christians, as though we are some how to blame for their butchery and ignorance.  

10 Apr 2007 @ 22:21 by AA @ : Mishka and Cyrus and haters
There is a book written by President Carter. I suggest you read it.
Muslims like my self have nothing against any country, any religion, any race or ethnicity, any belief, any view, or any individual.
I have no hatered, nor ill-will towards any one.
I empathize and sympathisize for and with others irrespective of race religion etc.
I am a very religious man.  

21 Apr 2007 @ 11:35 by Guiseppe @ : hairy pussy
Easter é ido, ele é hora para retratos engraçados :)  

9 Jun 2007 @ 16:05 by nobody @ : the cartoons
fuck you biach, you mother fucking wancker go fuck your mothers pose + your dads dick you dare write another word or draw i am gonna fucking murder you you fuking hole!!!  

27 Jul 2007 @ 11:39 by Mohamed @ : fear Mohamed!!!
for all of you who posted bullshit about mohamed and islam... I FEEL SORRY  

27 Jul 2007 @ 16:08 by bushman : Hmm.
My oppinion is all fanatics, of any religion, should be shot, for trying to be Gods God. The fanatics who think they have the right and power to tell the world what God wants or how God is. Not one person on this planet has ever seen God, and only hearsay of so called prophets. These kind of fanatics are what is the problem in this world, it dosnt matter what religion, if your willing to kill for something/an invisable God that isnt here and real, or because some book writen by man has told you so, then you should be exicuted. If God dosnt like it he/she can punish for him/her self. Any human that would kill for a God, is sick in the head and needs profesional help. Its the same as killing someone for calling a color pink when its red.  

29 Jul 2007 @ 18:29 by ALLAH O AKBAR @ : i love allah
and I it emmerde dog which drew these images  

1 Sep 2007 @ 08:56 by Waqas Tariq @ : May peace be upon you all...
I pray to God for peace on Earth, all the comments I read above make me wonder why can we people understand??? we are HUMANS first, belive me those Muslims that blow them selves up are really not Muslims at all they just use Islam to expand there own idioligy, i am a Muslim and I love my religion and my Prophet and all the Prophets that came before him, Peace to all harm to none...

Regarding the cartoon I have seen them and they dont lok much offencive in anyway, BUT when our religion says that we cannot depict our Prophet (make pictures/sculptures) of him than that means it shoudnt be done, and the others should respect that, its just like firing a bomb on the neigbour country and then saying soory (i take this extreme example becouse it is untorebale in islam to depict Mohammed) I hope it clears up your minds...

May peace be upon you all...

Muslim, Karachi, Pakistan.  

30 Sep 2007 @ 20:25 by GodsofChaos @ : Muslims need to get over themselves....
First off I like to say the Islam has been of the most violent religions in the history of mankind.The Muslims favorite thing to do is convert people with force.
The Moors didn't get all the way to Spain through peaceful conquest.Muslim always
talk about how peaceful there religion is but I ask this question.When? Islam has
always aggressively converts through warfare.The only time Islam has been peacful
Is after they got there teeth kicked in by the Mongols,which the Muslims pissed off. All he really wanted was to trade with the Muslims but they killed all his
traders and cut off his bread which was humiliating is country.The Muslims essentially pissed off the wrong guy,can't think of his name right now,since they didn't have world wide news back then the probably didn't know that Ganges Kong was putting the fear of GOD into China,but enough of the history lesson
what happened next was the Mongols almost wipe out Islam by killing every single
person they came across. So Islam shine moment of peace was they had few troops left and half of there empire was wiped out. So know what I know from history is
the only time Islam is peaceful is if they just got there asses kicked. I have
yet seen a Muslim admit this instead they cry that they are peaceful while blowing you brains out with an AK-47.

"BUT when our religion says that we cannot depict our Prophet (make pictures/sculptures) of him than that means it shouldn't be done"
Why it's not like you give a damn on what other people feel.If the west treated
Muslims on how they treat people that disagree with them the Middle East would
be to radioactive to enter.

"its just like firing a bomb on the neigbour country and then saying soory (i take this extreme example becouse it is untorebale in islam to depict Mohammed) I hope it clears up your minds..."
Ever hear of 9/11? People all across the Middle East declared 9/11 a holiday while we mourned are dead. So what so you think is worse drawing a picture of
Mohamed or killing people just because they showed up for work that they or had
to travel by plane.
Muslims need to get over themselves they justify there evil deeds just because
some one slighted them or lives on what they consider holy ground such as Israel. Which seriously move on everyone has owned Israel at some point in time,
maybe not everyone ,but I to lazy to list them all.

If you are Muslim and you are offended by my post don't bitch and wine about it.
Do something such as stop teaching death to America to small children, blowing yourself up to farther your goals,or better yet move on stop harboring hatered
for something that happened a thousand years ago.

Also Muslims as a community need to learn how to take a joke and let thing slid
more. It would be better to your cause if you showed the world that you were open to other ideas instead of getting angry.


5 Nov 2007 @ 21:15 by sam @ : insolence
a joke is usually a private matter and as for the 'muslim community' being able to take that joke its offensive the christian community didnt like it when jesus was thought to have a heir and jews certainly would not appreciate it if you were to degrade their messiah that they are still waiting for so do yourself a favour and keep your insolence to yourself!  

1 Dec 2007 @ 21:30 by Omar abdullah @ : what do you know about Islam and prophet
realy what do you know about Islam and prophet mhmmd (pbuh)?????????????
do not look to them through the eyes of there enemies& media because you will be lost...

Give your selves a chance and brous these web sites and try to figure why hundreds of millions of muslims are still believe in prophet Mohmmd and the holy Quraan??
why they are killed all over the world even by there own governments because of there believes in god islam quraan

try tp under stand !!! ( german language )  

18 Jan 2008 @ 13:58 by Aneeka @ : LISTEN!!
salaam...i jus wantd 2 saii islam is a respected and very old religion and shudnt have anithin sed rong bou it cuz at da end of the daii u wudnt wan nobodii disrespectin your religion soo you shudnt disrespect odas!! i think you all need 2 rethink cuz at we all have to live 2getha on this world no matta wah we believa bou the hereafta racism and all this jus makes lyf harda!! treat every 1 equal not singlein out 1 religion!  

1 Mar 2008 @ 12:48 by moe @ : to aneeka
nice french, aneeka...  

3 Mar 2008 @ 00:46 by paul james @ : ur photos
u r so going 2 hell
muhammad was the holiest person 2 ever touch the earth  

21 Mar 2008 @ 10:10 by osama @ : we did not start it
i'm sure there is no 1 loves war and blod,all of u know what europian did i austuralia,america ,Africa and Asia people u talk about tolerace how can i tolerate u ''white man' and u did not stop killing muslim kids in palstain iraq
u have 11.09 we million 11.09 only in algeria u killed 1.5 million if u killed my mother or brothers do you think it is easy for me to forget, so i think what osama ben laden and other doing it result of what u did against them,
it is clear to any one want to the true that u pushing them to do more and more cruzy thing the revange is your game white man
you are white r different so different you talk like egel but you like devil there is no different for you beween young or old, any way take a look to ur history WHITE MAN and compare it to the prophent Mohamed MESSAGE AND HIS WAR and tell me wich pic will come up in ur mind DO NOT FORGET WE DONOT GIVE UP

22 Mar 2008 @ 03:46 by Charlie @ : Infidels
Enough of all this reverse blam and such.
Look at the words of the so called "prophet" and his so called "god".
The advocation of killing people because they don't bow down to your group think is wrong whether it is done by mohamed or hitler or anyone else.
As far as I can see after reading some of the "koran" is that some of the servants of the devil are calling themselves "muslims".
And as the infidels that they are, they would kill anyone that would not bow down to worship thier father, Satan.
Because they call evil "allah" does not change its nature.
The Bible told us that the devil could present himself as an "angel of light"
and I feel sorry for these people that are following this path to destruction.
I would say, seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness
and that prohibits the killing of people because they do not
think as you do.

It was the so-called "holy" actions that beheaded a man
who was doing work to help better people.
Nope, the truth is before our eyes.

The "muslims" are no diffrent than the "Third Richt" "Nazis",
it is still devil worship.

Pray for them, but don't validate thier misguided and evil posturings.

I have no hatred toward these people, only the evil force that they have allowed to take over thier minds, bodies and souls;
plunging them in a headlong rush to hell,
under the false assumption that such
actions bring them to heaven.

I fear thier "heaven" they
will find has no place
for GOD and will,
instead be a
place where
they will
reap the
seeds of
thier rejection
of God and a morality
that demands a reverance for life,
in favor of a "feel good" nurturing of hatred
and the killing of people because of imagined threats
against a life-style that they should not be living, anyway.  

9 Apr 2008 @ 17:06 by M. AMJED KHAN @ : Cartoons of Muhammad
Publisher is just a mad. He dont have respect Holly Prophits. its the greastest insult. all the muslim world should leave using things of Denmark and Sweden.  

3 May 2008 @ 03:10 by Alamzeb @ : Muhammed(SAW)
i don't know why the people of denmark are making the kartoons of Muhammed(SAW).because he was a great person to gauid the people on right way.he stoped the people from drinking of wine,gambling.he also inform the people about the rights of relatives that how to respect your parients.and as you know there is no concept of respect of the eldersinthe this is my massege to all over the world do not entarept in the other religeon.if you wat to debate so welln good come forwerd the Muslims are always ready to talk those who want.because this very foolish act to make a cartoon of some one .wesh you best of luck.  

8 Aug 2008 @ 10:39 by malcolm X (not realy) @ : malcolm X and Sterotypes
hello, for the record i am atheist.
as far as my understanding goes Malcolm X was both black and Islamic band he was ready to fight against stereotypes and stand up for his race. that's all this should be a fight against stereotypes just because one poorly educated Muslim youth blows himself up on the streets of Baghdad doesn't mean that they all do. as my understanding goes over half the examples of Islamic peoples featured above were stereotypes, you cannot rely on stereotypes for examples in post it may be the easy thing to do but it isn't the truth.

to all of you arrogant fools flaming Islam i suggest that you read the Koran and then develop an opinion.

peace and love,
not really Malcolm X(john)  

27 Oct 2008 @ 17:20 by Stacey @ : mo-hamed and malcolm x
I don't understand why these cartoons are linked to the U.S. They're from a totally different country, drawn by people who aren't Americans. How that means that somehow the U.S. is responsible for them is beyond me. As far as "one" person blowing themselves up in the name of Islam, think again. There have been countless numbers of people doing just that thing, attacking every country that doesn't follow their idea of religion. If it's your basic religious belief that murdering is acceptable, then you're following a very twisted, ugly "god". It's been shown in the Koran just where it states that murdering is an acceptable act, for incredibly stupid reasons. So stop pretending that this is a "harmless" religion. Other religions may be twisted enough to feel that there's is the only way. This one is the only one that feels justified in wiping out everyone else.
As far as Muhammad being a great leader. I guess it's acceptable in some countries to view women as lesser humans, but that's a load of crap. Making them wear ridiculous outfits, and then beating them to death when some dirtbag attacks them. Pathetic, backwards scum. He's not a great leader, he's a joke.
What the hell Malcolm X has to do with these cartoons is anyone's guess. Another overhyped fool.  

10 Mar 2009 @ 07:56 by Rim @ : Is it fair?
It's well known that "a human-being is alaways an enemy to what he doesn't know", so before judging Muhammed or any other person or scoffing any body we must at least know him well,& I think the best way is to read about it well from the main sources of Islam,it seems that it is'nt fair judging pepole by some stories from here & there,I certainly hate that anybody judge me without knowing who am I....  

13 Mar 2009 @ 11:31 by Asif @ : Muslim
As far as Muhammad being a great leader.  

14 Dec 2009 @ 19:49 by Nawshirwan @ : Watch the full video and tell me who is
Watch the full video and tell me who is the real terrorist Islam or Jewish & Christian?
If a Muslim kill's a person even if the guy who got killed was Muslim as well, they say Islam is terrorist
But if Jewish or Christian kill a lot of people millions and millions in this world no one says they are terrorist
In 1944 USA bombs killed as many as 140,000 Innocent people in Hiroshima and 80,000 thousands in Nagasaki
Some says even more but no one say they are terrorist
They killed 1,503,000 Innocent in Vietnam and raped 151,000 thousands girls no one says they Jewish and Christian are terrorist
Russia Killed almost 1,680,000 Innocent Muslim in Afghanistan and Chechen= çeçenistan
They burn 80,900 thousand mosque= Masjid and raped thousands and thousands girls no one says they're terrorist
India killed almost 500,000 half million and raped thousands and thousands in Kashmir no one says they are terrorist
France killed over 1,000,000 and raped thousands and thousands in Algeria no one says they are terrorist
Serbia in 1992 to 1995 killed 214,000 thousand 15 years after the end of the conflict. It is unknown how many women were raped, but estimates reveal at least 25,000, most of them Muslim. There were Serbs and Croats, too. NGOs estimate that about one thousand children were born out of such abuses. At least 30 percent of the Bosniak civilian victims were women and children (Yugoslavia) (USA) (UN) gave military support to Serbia and no one says they are terrorist,
March 1988 America helped Sadam Husain to kill 182,000 thousand Kurd in Karadax and killed 5,000 in Halabja my town no one says they are terrorist
They are killing everywhere & ever day in Bosnia, Chechen= çeçenistan, Kurdistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Nigeria, Lebanon, Palestine, Sudan ,you name it!!
But no one call them terrorist why!!! Are they allowed to kill, but we aren’t allowed to defend our faith, country, culture, and our people!!!!!!!!!!
If they kill it’s the Person who kill not their faith or their country but if Muslim kill its Islam!!!!
Open your eyes and use your head guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don’t just look at news because Jewish have total control over the entire media around the world
The media shows what they want you to see, they don't show the truth behind their lies, their jobs is to cover up the truth with lies and that’s why they get paid TOP Dollars
So use your head not TV or newspapers, or magazines,  

22 Dec 2009 @ 01:03 by Jesse @ : wow...
Nawshirwan... I was agreeing with everything you wrote until the very end. I am against any act of killing, and war should be seen as terrorism, but what you believe is hindering you from ever seeing or speaking any kind of real truth.

Jews have control over the entire media!?!?! Are you serious?? I don't even know how to dignify that with a response. The reason they get paid TOP dollar is because advertisers pay them TOP dollar to show programming that will give the biggest audience. They only show what EVERYONE wants to see, because that's how you make the big bucks. That's not to say that everyone wants to see muslims portrayed as terrorists, but everyone does like to watch things get destroyed and go to hell, and listen to people talk about it. If Muslims simply STOPped getting angry over nothing and didn't commit so many acts of violence, then it would be pretty difficult to paint them as Terrorists.

Here's an example of why its easy to paint Muslims as terrorists.
Now that sir is a shit ton more offensive than a cartoon drawing of Muhammed. Apparently the reason that relic to the past was destroyed is because the UN wanted to send money to fix those statues since they were used as target practice when the British Empire occupied Pakistan in the 19th century. Pakistan wanted to use the money to feed their people instead, and the UN said no, and so they blew it up.

That has got to be the most childish response I have ever heard. Why is it the UN's responsibility to feed an entire country? Sure it wouldn't have helped anyone, but it was a priceless historic monument that would have lasted through the ages, and will be proof of our existence when mankind finally destroys itself.

If there's no food in the desert, then it might be a good idea to relocate. Take your religion and misguided beliefs with you. Leave the statues alone. Just because the world is turning without the muslims in mind is no reason to go blow it up. I could go on and on, but it wouldn't matter. You're not going to listen, so I'm just going to stop, and live my life with out worry of what other people are doing or saying. Maybe you should do the same.  

21 Apr 2010 @ 21:40 by Jeff @ : On this subject
Cartoons depicting Mohammed as (name your choice) are not condoned by Christ-ians who actually practice Christ-ianity (followers of Christ). For all those opposed to the historical fact of Jesus as savoir, you will bow your knee someday either in this life or afterwards. Christianity in the modern world allows you the CHOICE to accept or reject the message contained in Gods word. Ishmaeels children (the Muslim World) believe in the SAME GOD, as do Christians, Jews and Muslims -- we depart at Mohammed as the final prophet and the Quran. Christians and Jews depart at Jesus. GOD the CREATOR(the one we all worship) told Abrahim that due to his disobedience the children of Ismaeel would be a thorn in the side of Jews till the return of a heavenly kingdom on this Earth we war over. Extremists on both sides of the world will have to stand in the docket and be judged someday soon, some sooner than others -- I feel MANY will be suprised whom they will meet in seperate eternity conditions when judgement it met.

I dislike any hurtful cartoons in the name of free speech - a freedom that is so poorly understood or applied.  

1 Nov 2010 @ 01:37 by Laird @ : Infection
I have tertiary syphilis.  

15 Feb 2011 @ 15:30 by MUSLIM @ : u FOOLS of the first order...
All this type of pings depict the fact that the creators of these are definitely FOOLS of the first order  

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